Pooch

Body: 

In response to Gillian and Surviving in Veezvee's topic about sponges...

Pooch.

Can everyone please describe to me what they perceive a pooch to be?

Do other women have the same tummy characteristics and not be concerned about it?

Does it change with WW posture?

Or do our attitudes to our bodies change when we do WW posture?

Is it a term of endearment? Does your partner like your pooch?

Is it a term of disparagement? Is it about self-hatred?

Why?

I'll start.

I have always had a pad of fat just under my navel. I have not been skinny since I was about 10 years old. That is when it appeared, It was *the* reason why I started sucking it in, because I could make it disappear.. If I tucked my butt I could make it disappear further, by making my mons stick out further in front. That went on for about 40 years. I haven't worn a bikini since I was about 20 (too ashamed), and was very selfconcious and tense when in bikinis, but I had to be like the othergirls. However I eventually got over it. I now have a lovely tattoo just below my belly button, right down to my pubic hairline. I now dance publicly with my belly exposed. It might be TMI for some, and it has some big spare tyres (lordy, lordy!) but it is my belly, and I will do what I want to with it. Hopefully my exposing my belly will empower other older and fatter women to accept and bare theirs to the world, just to balance up the range of visual experiences for belly watchers. It is still not completely comfortable to dance with my belly exposed, but I am working on it. It is no longer my shame. Yes, my Mum was the same shape at my age. I can remember seeing her naked and wondering how on earth her belly got to be the shape that it was Now I have lived half of my life and born three babies, I know!!!

Long live la pooche! (but may it not get any bigger. ;-) )

Louise

Forum:

My husband has always said that soft rounded belly is supposed to be there on women. It's lovely, it's sexy, it's feminine....way better than a six-pack that makes a woman look masculine. He's not really saying he loves my fat belly (classic apple shape); he'd rather I eat right and be healthy. Long before I found descriptions and saw pictures of good WW posture, he described this to me as a beautiful woman...beautiful curve in the lower back to rounded hips and a softly rounded belly. Our daughter has taken on this form because she has been naturally active and well developed and because she has a good appetite for healthy food. I'm still a blob (self-disparagement having nothing to do with a feminine pooch), but I'm depressed today anyway. Still alive enough to recognize the truth from a lover of the woman.

Ok, here is my pooch and how it evolved. In the beginning, in my twenties I always had that sexy smooth rounded tummy between my hip bones and under my navel. But, the pooch began to grow and grow and then it really grew upon menopause and now it is a wide roll of fat that literally hangs over my pubic bone. It's not sturdy or well distributed fat like Santa Clause has -it's just a roll of fat that looks like I just lost 100 lbs and this is what's left over. It doesn't even seem to be attached to anything. I can lift it up and flop it with my hands. I can pinch a good 2 inches of this flabby pooch! This does not make me feel sexy in the least bit even if I were belly dancing. I'd be afraid it might accidentally slap someone during my gyrations!

OK, now I know what you mean. It is called a pannus (apron in Latin, I believe) when it gets very big, particularly if the person loses a lot of weight after it forms. I think it forms because the connective tissue (yes, more fascia) between the skin and fat, and the next layer in, which is the rectus abdominus sheath, stretches and breaks. Pregnancy would be the main cause, because the lower belly stretches more than the upper part of the abdomen, but some men have them too.

Tattoos below the navel become very stretched and distorted after a pregnancy. I have seen a Youtube video of time lapse photos of a woman's belly growing during the pregnancy and reversion afterwards. It is that low part, down near the pubes, where the pooch forms, that expands the most ,makes the tattoo distorted afterwards, and creates the pooch.

As we age our connective tissue becomes thinner and less resilient. Hence face wrinkles, batwings instead of upper arms, and drooping boobs. This is simply what happens, particularly if you have been overweight in your younger years and lose weight. The connective tissue can spring back to a degree, but I think as we age it doesn't spring back as readily.

I saw a television program recently about the cosmetic surgery industry in LA. It seems that there are so many people who have had 'work done', that the community's perception of normal has changed. Not only do they see ' beautiful young person' bodies and faces in the media and on billboards. These visually altered people *are* the people in the crowd. An enormous number of people want to conform to norm that they see on tele and in the ads too. It is like they want to be like the celebrities. They want to be *in* the fantasy. Unaltered people fall for this community fantasy too, and consequently feel ugly. The more people who have 'work done' , the more people who don't have appearance enhancing surgery are becoming the odd ones out! This is all a bit too George Orwell for me. It creeps me right out.

So, next time you see a shapely woman who has no indentation around her waist or above her navel, with her whole belly and/or thighs so smooth and dent free that you could land a very tiny plane on it, you will know that she has had some liposuction so she can look like all her friends and her heroes and goddesses. She will look like the women in the celeb magazines because she too has had all the connective tissue severed between her skin and her rectus abdominus muscles and has had subcutaneous fat sucked out. Her skin will never actually cling to her body ever again.

Yes, she too is on the surgical treadmill, because she doesn't have any glue holding her belly skin to the muscle layer under it (which you still have). Her belly skin is like a lycra t-shirt. When the t-shirt ages and the lycra breaks down, she will need repeated tummy tucks to remove folds of skin as they descend and expand around her torso, or flap in the breeze. Eventually, like Cher, her skin may be so tight that her skin will pull with movement.

Yes, I have one of those pooches too, It forms a fold a wide floppy 'eave' over my pubes. It pushes my knickers down at the front, so the back tends to fall down too. Sigh. I think the pooch is the reason why many women swear by Granny knickers which sit up at or near the waist. I wear my dance skirts just below the navel, so pooch is covered. No, don't worry, I am not ready for my whole pooch to shimmy for the crowd!! ;-)

Yes, it is a bit visually challenging, having a pooch. Even I would admit that. However, as the disadvantages of getting old go, it is not on my list of really worrying changes. My attempting to accept my pooch is about my learning to accept me as I am, not as a veneer of how I want the world to see me. It is also about not concerning myself if others judge me for it. What business is it of theirs anyway?

I really think judgements about other people's bodies and our own body is about confronting our own ageing and mortality. It is about fear of dying. It is therefore about survival, and is therefore governed by the reptilian part of our brain, which we don't have control over. Being concerned about our own survival is normal, natural and essential. We just have to put up with some of the self-criticism that goes with it, label pooch (and other visual signs of ageing) self-criticism as irrelevant to survival , and love ourselves and others as we all are, with all our imperfections, physical and otherwise.

If you live in LA, then even if the 'beauty' of others does your head in and draws you to the cosmetic surgeon, the rules about loving others and self they way they are, are still the same.

That has to be the recipe for happiness.

With my pooch, the "apron" effect is mainly on the side of all my appendix scars. I can certainly see how women who have had c-section would be particularly prone to this....all that extra stuff being supported from underneath by scarring. Anyone ever check out the website, Shape Of A Mother? - Surviving

Clever way to draw us in and give us a good lesson. So even now - even our skin has a better chance at natural recovery (to whatever degree it's resilience can be coaxed back to life) than those who have had surgery. The more unnatural interference, the worse the domino effect. It is creepy now just to see all the "beautiful people". How much creepier is the mass effect going to be as more and more "common people" buy into plastic surgeries and can't afford to stay hidden, sending their servants out for errands, when the long term effect begins to show?

It was suggested to me yesterday that the American is the pinnacle of the evolution of man. Devolution, I think.

I wonder how high the average middle aged Californian butt will be in fifty years' time?

BTW, there is already a joke about the bearded woman who had too many tummy tucks.;-)

Oh, we are a strange species. No wonder all the passengers in all those space ships that have already visited the earth, have gone back home again! Usually at high speed!

Oooo, this is getting a little uncomfortable. I do hope that no Members have been offended by my levity in the face of women who are taking the drastic step of having their body altered surgically so they will feel more beautiful.

I confess that The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf has been one of the main influences in the development of my attitudes to beauty and its price. I know that some women will go to almost any lengths to feel more beautiful. Cosmetic surgery can be a life saving step for some (I know one woman personally) but so often the insecurities and self-hatred are not excised along with the unwanted tissue and the woman remains dissatisfied or becomes dissatisfied with some other body part.

It is not all about the body. It is all so sad.