For Fab and others, <--->

I still regard you well, Bebe. You are mostly warm and generous of heart. Please do not be too hard on yourself. We mostly act with the best of intentions. We do our best.

W2k really got caught in the crossfire....totally undeserved. Apologies and hugs going out to her! - Surviving

:-)
**HUGS**

It takes a humble, but strong person to admit that she was wrong .... and it takes strong character to carry out the determination to change.

God bless you

:-)
w2k

There are so many truly good and humble women on this site whom we all can learn and grow from. One of my favorite philosophers is George Ohsawa - who brought macrobiotics to the West. He used to say, "The back is always as big as the front". I have never forgotten those words and if you just observe, it is so true! The most righteous are often the biggest liars, the biggest crooks.

Women often stop talking with one another and that is when the deeper troubles begin. We stop for the usual reasons...judgment, jealousy, fear, etc. When women stop talking, imagination takes over to fill in the gaps. The divide often progresses to persecution, hatred, and people get so invested in their perspectives that relationships are lost forever.

Women have a special talent for talking and sharing at the deepest levels. But in order to do so meaningfully there has to be a certain level of openness and non-judgment. There is a lot in the world that needs to be talked about and women are often silenced because of fear of the negativity that will ensue if they share from their hearts.

Love conquers all!

Christine

Dear Bebe,
(((hugs))
& love to you,
from across the miles,
Best wishes,
Aussie Soul Sister

That last little paragraph above where you are mentioning women and their unique need to communicate with openness and nonjudgement, and at the deepest level is absolutely beautiful.
It just made my day!
Thank you! And thank all the women on this very special forum for being there when others need them.
I have a picture hanging up here at home that says:
'Making a difference can be as simple as getting up in the morning and helping those around you.'
And that is what I think this forum is all about.

You are a peach! Thanks for being here with us. x

Thank you! Mornings are my favorite time of day especially in late August and Sept. when the days are beautiful and the skies are so blue.
My 4th daughter just went off to college and she was my 'confidant' so to say. Now I do not hear from her every day as I have been used to. My 5th daughter is home but we do not share the same relationship though we are a bit closer it is just she is a teenager and mom knows very little.
So having this forum to log onto in the morning is my 'saving grace' as I have reached menopause and have no interest in sex with my husband of 24 years. I am sorry for that and keep telling myself I need to do something about this, I still keep distancing myself from him sexually. I hope and pray this is not the wrong step because he means so much to me and I do not want cause conflict in our relationship. But what can I do? I do love as I mentioned logging on to the forum and sharing my life and problems with you giving and caring women. And as I sit and type I am continously trying to stay in WW posture!
I watched a movie called 'Life Happens' it was good, but what a nice title. It is so true!

Hi rose - I am just curious as to why you choose to distance yourself from your husband sexually and why you don't choose to just suck it up and fake interest for example. Just curious here as I like to hear others' experience of menopause since it's a path we'll all have to one day traverse - assuming the crazy situation in my region of the world doesn't kill me long before then! Ok bad joke.

Praying for peace and that you survive with us into very old age. Hugs!!

Hi, and welcome I don't know if you are new here but I have not spoke with you before.
Since I read your comment last night I have been seriously reflecting on it and trying to find the best and most concise answer to your question. I feel once I get started I could fill two pages and I don't really need to give you my full case history. It is just the sexual feeling you feel when you are younger (before menopause) are so much different than after. And if I am uncomfortable so is he even if I just 'suck it up and fake it' So all I can say in short is your body changes, as they say some women have more desire and some have less. It is hard to give him what he needs when I just don't feel comfortable with it anymore, I have alot of bowel pressure and lower back pressure in the morning and it hurts to just lay in bed after being in bed all night. I feel sensitive about my extra weight especially around my stomach area. I could go on and on. I wish I could take a pain pill that would take all the pain away and give me the desire and just do it. But it would most likely have side effects, and give me severe 'hot flashes' as I have been experiencing even with just a sheet on. When you are experiencing a 'hot flash' that seems to be lasting forever you just do not want to be touched or even cuddled with.
Sorry I can't explain it better.

times with my hubby. I usually have a full bladder and full rectum at that time, so it's not comfortable.

I try to plan on a 'slow day' -- little or no stress -- and a relaxing evening to satisfy my hubby's needs (as well as my own)

And I agree -- hot flashes and being warm in bed do not make me feel like being touched or cuddled.

:-)
w2k

Hi w2k, I wish we had times like you are mentioning, a relaxed evening. up to now we always had children at home, I have one more daughter at home so when we take that into the equation it makes it more difficult, but yes when she is away from home and the others are not home for a break, I think that time would be very helpful. I just need to get my husband home from work earlier, he works very hard and long hours.
Thank you for the idea.

Perhaps he would come home earlier if he knew

:-)

I don't know how to start this, so will jump right in. We must never lose intimacy with our men. A man once told me that he is waiting for his time with his wife. I quizzed him on this and he said: First it was just us, then it was us and her mother, then her sisters and her girlfriends, and then the kids...I can't wait till the kids leave home so I get her back. I thought how sad, and then saw the truth of it. Our great loves who wait for us. There are alternatives to intercourse. Oral sex comes to mind. If the "ewww" factor is too great on that then consider massaging each other with fragrant oils and bringing him to climax that way...or a shower for two. Get creative, explore each other, but don't lose each other...keep the intimacy, rekindle the flame.

So well said, Arizona. Over 30 years of marriage, my husband and I have lost each other several times, with many of those of me pulling away from him, because I was wrapped up in my own changes. Surprised he stayed with me, and I often asked him why, and he said it was so much work with me he would never want to start that over again with someone else. It is not always greener on the other side, is it?
We don't have a lot of sex, never did, but we do enjoy just being with each other now. I like this new us at this stage in our lives.
Yes, we must all find a way back to each other. That is so true!

I get what you are saying - even during reproductive years, with the ebb and flow of hormones, there are lots of time during a woman's cycle when sleeping or sitting quietly alone is far more appealing than sex. Christine once mentioned how society doesn't acknowledge the reality that a woman's sexuality changes drastically in her golden years. I guess it comes down to each woman reaching a compromise that will be right for her and her partner.

Thank you for the comments above, all are so important. In the early years we always had a great time together intimately then as the years go by it just got more and more strained. I felt bad about the way I looked and I finally got to the point where I didn't want to be touched intimately. I try to cuddle with him but he doesn't respond, he is not a cuddler. So I am feeling alone and I know he is too. I try to talk to him about it but it is difficult for me to talk about my feelings as he does not respond well to intimate talk. Right now I should be in bed with him, I will try it and see how it goes. It's just when he touches me it is not the same feelings and I do not always repsond well and want to end it soon so intitiate the sex part to get it over with and then it hurts and I am sore and sometimes there is a bit of blood. The gyn says there is not a problem except I do have a couple cervical polyps but she told me they were so small they didn't really need removed. As I am the non surgical type, unless life and death decision.
I never thought when i was younger I would be this way, (my mother was always cold with my dad), and I said no way am I going to feel this way becaise I always really enjoyed having sex and being with a man, but then menopause happened.?? I am very much confused and feeling alone on this issue.

Hi Rose,
I feel so bad for you. I know that feeling, have experienced it. My hubby was never a cuddler either. There were times when we hated each other so much that we would just pass each other in the house without even speaking. Even times we would go up to a year without having sex at all.
It seems like when a lot of the stresses started to leave the house, we started to get to know each other again, and then we would take walks together or watch a show we both liked together for some bonding time. It took us some time to let the hurt and resentment go away, but thank goodness it did. I hope the same for you and your hubby.

Oh Rose, a big hug to you. My hubby and I went through several "disconnects" through the years, even a divorce. In the end we did manage to reconnect emotionally and physically but it took a lot of work on both our parts. I know how frustrating it can be when you want him to listen and he shuts down. We got to the point where we would write a letter to each other so that we could communicate our thoughts and feelings without breaking into fits of emotion...anger, tears, and the moments of lost words where you just throw your hands up and walk away. Rose, no one can fault you for not wanting to have intercourse if it is painful. I don't think any loving partner would expect you to submit to painful sex either. My dear man died a few years ago (cancer). The last year of his life we did not have intercourse, painful for him, but we would cuddle skin-to-skin, and that was enough. I'm sorry that menopause has been so hard on you. I guess I got lucky with mine. I did have some wicked power-surges, still do, but they are decreasing. I know the electric company loved me...would get the AC cranking till it almost snowed in the house. I didn't get depressed with my hormone flutuations, I went the other way --- calm to pissed off in six seconds. I went through natural menopause, no HRT. Rose, embrace your beautiful body. I have a belly, my boobs have migrated, but that is okay. I have welcomed this third stage of my life, though I could do without the part where my bladder sits in my vagina ;-)

Don't want to get involved but really don't like seeing all these negative arguments towards long standing members, fab, surviving and many others I always find so amazingly helpful and always there to answer when you need help. We are all in similar circumstances and we need to stick together and be happy :) ;) thanks to you all ..

I am not sure where the negative arguments are? But please delete and take away anything that was posted that may have been negative towards anyone, (fab, surviving, and any others), I love them all and that's why I want to share my most intimate feelings with them. There are many people I call my friends in my life that I would not want to share these things concerning my husband with that I feel comfortable sharing with these women because they are as you say above, amazingly helpful and always there to help and impart words of comfort.

Thank you Aging gracefully and Arizona, and others on this forum, it is always helpful talking with other women about their relationships and realizing we are not alone. That is why I think this WW forum is so valuable. Each morning when I am able, I like to come on line to hear the feedback on issues affecting us as women, mothers, and wives. It has been very helpful for me and I hope for others as well.
Up to now I have always been too busy with my children growing up, working, or my husband to have much time for a social life. This has been rewarding for me in being able to talk and confide in other women, thank you, thank you, thank you!

I was just 'having sex to please my hubby' this last year (almost every day). My whole purpose was to satisfy him. However, I was not getting aroused enough myself, so penetration was hurting me. I continued to do this, just to try to be for him what he needed.

.... and I ended up with all these bladder infections and other problems.

That's why, as I mentioned in another post, you need to find ways of BOTH enjoying it and making sure that you are properly aroused/lubricated so that you don't cause damage.

We have now cut down the number of times, but we both thoroughly enjoy ourselves and make sure that what we do is not hurting each other.

:-)
w2k

Hi thank you both for your comments and help, and yes in the past if I sort of zoned out and concentrated on enjoying it I could often get into it, so we will see how it goes when I get another chance!
And thank you for the nice comments on the poem it is very special to me. It was interesting my teen daughters and my husband didn't seem to appreciate it, but women, approaching and entering into menopause do.?

I liked these words so I hope you don't mind me using them Bebe.
I decided to just try to relax this morning and go with the flow. Well it worked while he was holding me, the 'foreplay' but once he got on top of me, which was my suggestion, I thought it would work best in that position, and entered in, I felt like I was rubber, oh my goodness, so dry and absolutely no feeling of passion on my side, I just couldn't wait until it was over!

Starting to relax is definitely the first step.

We actually do many different positions, during foreplay, and take our time. Hubby will not enter if I'm not wet enough (we made that mistake before too). If necessary, Rose, try to find a 'lube' that works. I know that different ones have talked about it here on the 'forum', and you should probably search the word 'lube'

:-)
w2k

Hi, I am concerned about doing different positions because it is soo uncomfortable, and foreplay is ok because our bodies are close and that is a good feeling but i'm just not into it. But today since that area is sore and maybe beause things moved around a bit, i am not feeling as much lower back and bowel pressure as usual! That is nice.
How about products like 'Damian Leaf' to help get in the mood.? i don't want to take any drugs for it.

I was talking about had to do with foreplay -- and getting me excited -- not penetration. Do what's comfortable .... take your time .... and .... sure -- my hubby goes on top finally too!!

I don't know about Damian Leaf or anything else to get into the mood. Perhaps if he gave you a massage -- with some nice smelling lotion -- it would help????

:-)
w2k

P.S. That's a bonus that it has helped calm some of your other pains. That's progress!!

Thank you Rose (which is a beautiful name btw) and all for sharing this. It's a topic that affects so many of us, so the more we can help each other the better, I reckon.

I think you're onto something Bebe, when you let it be physical, it does not exclude romance or passion, but if you wait for the romance or the passion, the physical may not come (so to speak!). And w2k, anything that can help get you into the zone (massage etc) has to be a good thing.

I don't think lubricant is the complete answer. To me there is a difference between whacking a lot of lubricant on when I am not aroused, and when I am aroused. I think of it as the female equivalent of an erection (i.e. a prerequisite to penetrative sex). Having said that, I do really like the sylk lubricant. I think it is made with kiwifruit, which my sensitive skin likes.

Another idea I thought I would throw out there is to include clitoral stimulation before and/or during penetration (with lots of lubricant if necessary, or using a vibrator - my favorite is a Lelo).

The other thing that occurred to me reading this thread was maybe Lanny might do phone consultations with men, alongside the ones Christine does with women. It seems that he and Christine have sorted this whole thing out beautifully, and other men could benefit from his experience and wisdom.

That would be great but highly unlikely for my husband to seek help in and with this situation! He doesn't even mention it to me. But that would be great, and helpful!

And as far as sex goes I have been sexually active since a teen and have always enjoyed it, I had my 1st daughter when I was 18 and my 5th daughter when I was 40. Both were equally hard and the 3 in between were the easiest!
I feel part of my uncomfortable-ness is the fact that we have been married for 24 years and I feel that my looks and my body at 55 are no longer sexy or attractive. My husband has a young gene and even though he is one year older than me he looks like he is in his late 40's. No gray hair or anything. And he is fit and handsome. So this is something I have to face, and last night was the first time I suddenly felt old. Today I feel better, but changes are hard but with you lovely ladies sometimes just reading other peoples situations is enough and I don't even have to say anything.
Thank you, everyone of you!

Oh Rose, I know that feeling! My hubby has had a size 34 waist our entire marriage, and always been athletic. I, on the other hand, have alternated between fit and athletic to fat and sloppy. And, especially when my uterus prolapsed, it seemed like it was all over for sure. But, I did find that when we started to get to know each other again, and then realized why we liked each other in the first place, the trust came, and then I didn't feel so self conscience of my body anymore.
Sex came with the trust, because I didn't feel like he was judging me.
I surely hope the two of you can find that comfortable place too!

Thank you for your comment. And it is definitely hard at times, I am 5 foot tall and most of my weight is in the front so I wear pants alot. When I put dresses or pull over sweaters on I usually take them off again immediately!
And my last of 5 daughters that are left at home is slim and beautiful, and has the same body type as my husband.
Oh well, I am working on being loving, nurturing and kind. That's what I have left to work with.
One day maybe I will wake up and all my excess weight will be gone!!

Thank you Bebe, spoken as a true friend, I appreciate everything you have to say! And I have similiar circumstance, good looking husband, etc, etc. Anyway now that my 4th daughter is happy in her first year of college I have more time to be lonely and self conscious, and personally I would rather be busy. So that is why I am on this forum as much as possible.

My oldest daughter (age 37), says she cannot quit smoking because she will gain weight as soon as she stops. I hope someday it doesn't matter to her about the weight and she would rather be healthy instead. At least she doesn't smoke in her home only outside, mostly because she knows second hand smoke can be as bad or worse than smoking yourself and she has kids at home. So that's good.

And you are definitely accurate with saying 'you don't want to go there' as far as pointing out faults, either his or yours. I have made a decision in the beginning, that my marriage would be a marriage of peace and harmony. My mother and father fought constantly until they divorced and the kids, myself, my brothers, and sister never totally got over it. It is not worth what it does to the children for parents to argue and find fault with one another.

Thank you so much for being there!