Let's Talk About (Anal) Sex

I suspected we were talking in terms of symbols which are sacred to the individual and not necessarily universally shared or understood. For a person like myself, a veiled woman is a symbol of the suppression of women by men and/or a man’s God in a patriarchal religion. Sorry to be so blunt, but we have had an honesty in our dialogue, you and I, which I would like to continue. I can accept what you say as truth that “it is to embrace their femaleness in the way their creator meant them to” and this is a completely different and much loftier meaning to the same symbol; the veil, than my own. Where I live there are many women who wear veils and wear the hijab, but perhaps because of my different religious upbringing and my cultural difference even though I can accept that some women choose to embrace the veil and see that action as one which claims freedom as well as their spirituality, I see it quite differently. Naturally, when engaging with these women, I would not say anything to make them feel uncomfortable, but it is something I must admit, I will never lose my prejudice about and worry that they will sense my anxiety. I certainly can defend a woman’s right to wear a veil and have done so and would not like to see the situation here as it is in France where veils were banned. It is unfortunate that I placed the example of the veil as a comparison to the above subject, (although at the risk of making things worse I was thinking generally in terms of tattoos and piercings and young people adopting the appearance of the homeless and the drug addict: but in effect presenting a public face by which they wished to express themselves) but I did so in the context of feeling an alienation to the assumptions and thought processes of other albeit well meaning and in many other ways similar women and men to myself. As well, with the ongoing troubles in Syria and Iraq and threats to Iran these things have been on my mind, I do feel great concern for people in the middle east where the secular state has taken a battering and fear for the outcome of sectarian strife. I certainly apologise if I have caused you insult or concern and thank you for the kindness of your query.

No insult taken in the least, I was just curious that such a comparison could be drawn- but naturally I am looking at it from my perspective. I had a Jewish professor once - sweet lady - who more than once told me she didn't understand why I would do "this" to myself :). Explain as I would, we were coming from such radically different perspectives.

Yes it is a big mess in the middle east and god only knows where it'll all end up.

I admit that I am one who can sometimes come off as judgmental on these pages….and I just want to thank Jennifer for her honesty and sharing on this topic, and for allowing us to explore it with her help. Jennifer, I sense a great strength and confidence in you that allows you to continue the discussion, without taking offense when the comments and questions get quite personal. It has been most instructive and eye-opening for us all.

The thing I find myself wondering now, has to do with the need or desire to walk around all day in a state of readiness for sex. The anal plug which makes you feel sexy (despite admittedly not being real comfortable)…..the cell phone alarm sounding (to remind you to take a break and touch yourself). I mean, it sounds cool enough in a certain way, but I need to put this into some kind of context. What do you do during your day? Do you work? Care for family members and/or a home? All of the above?

Those of us managing prolapse do walk around all day with a heightened body awareness. We are always, at some conscious or sub-conscious level, aware of where our organs are at any given moment and considering what we might do to make that better or worse. WW posture itself is extremely sexy. I find that neither prolapse nor menopause has particularly affected my sex drive one way or the other. I am prouder of my body at 63 than I was at 53. That being said, I cannot imagine needing or wanting to stimulate my sexual appetite as I go through my day. At 41, as Fab has suggested, might there be a possible element of mid-life crisis at work here? Just wondering what you think. - Surviving

I remember a post from Louise where she described rediscovering her sexuality with the study of karma sutra, was it? Maybe some of you remember her post. I found that very encouraging when I had always though once you get older you start to become complacent and a certain desires turn into a loving companionship instead. Not that there is anything is wrong with that either.
My question still is what is the true sexuality of a woman? It just seems like as a society we come from a place of consistent dissatisfaction with ourselves. When is enough simply enough? I wonder what it has been like culturally in these female dominated societies that you hear about. Is there really a need for all these external devices to be a truly sexual being? Again, not from a judgmental place, but a place of curiosity.

And, I agree with surviving, whole woman posture makes me feel very sexy!

In response to the appropriateness of this thread (to our central topic, prolapse), I want to say that I have always thought of us as a circle of women (a Grandmother Circle, as many of us are in that age range) who will listen to anything a woman is dealing with if there is any way we can ease her suffering. That’s why I started the emotional issues forum. I think it’s sad when there is a line drawn between what is allowed to be spoken and what is considered too “uncomfortable.” That we are compassionate and respectful - particularly about belief systems and cultural mores is essential. Everyone has given their perspective, Jennifer has a lot to think about, and we have all been educated. What becomes intolerable are women who seek our help several times a day, day after day, week after week. Then the forums become a personal diary that is beyond the bounds of appropriate. My heart is lifted by the strength and courage of all the women here - particularly Chicka’s deep wisdom and patience.

For me, WW posture has drawn from me a deep and transformative power. I believe it is what has allowed me to stand in the world. I have been deeply wounded in many ways (there's more!) and I learned that you can only be so wounded and continue to stand up. Embracing my wounds, expressing them bit by bit as I have the energy, and continuing to pull up into my intended Self, is saving my life.

Oh...and I chuckle when I remember my beautiful 30-year-old daughter and I standing on the street corner a few years ago. I was standing with my profile to traffic and she was shielded from the traffic coming toward us. A car drove by and a bunch of guys leaned out the windows and honked and whistled....at me, because they couldn't see her! There is no doubt it was the posture. :-D

Communication over the internet does have its challenges. When I mentioned the difficulty in having a person write in for help several times a day, day after day, week after week, I was thinking of a couple of members from very long ago. Hope none of our lovely friends, all of whom we adore, took offense. C.

This has been a great discussion. As I've been reading and thinking about it and your mention, Christine, of undertaking what may be the most important work of your life, I wondered if you would consider opening a new forum. There's so much interest and need and wisdom demonstrated in this thread and so many ways the discussion can expand, besides the accumulation of anecdotes for a book. Just an idea....with some notes below to reinforce my suggestion.

Aging Gracefully, “My question is still what is the true sexuality of a woman?” Maybe this is the definitive question out of all the questions raised in this thread. Looking back over the posts, I lifted other questions and statements that can be taken as questions because they express the desire to understand:

Chickaboom, “What do you mean by sexuality being deeply genetic?” And, “Which differences between men and women should be acknowledged to exist?”

Aging Gracefully, “Are women just pawns in a male-oriented world, or are they truly discovering themselves, and proud to finally show it?”

Christine: “We need a deeper understanding of how the world really works.” And, “Profound differences between men and women should be acknowledged to exist.” And, “When we don't know who we are, or who our sisters and daughters are, we are vulnerable to being silenced and eventually destroyed.”

May I take the liberty of adding to that knowing who our mothers are, because they are our first teachers/examples....not just for women, but for boys? (My refusal to acknowledge how my mother was and her effect on me is still having repercussions, even after opening my eyes, even after she has been dead for nearly 35 years.) And, well, just one more question....shouldn't we wonder about the crossover between male/female gender and some masculine/feminine characteristics and behaviors?

I'm posting this separately, although it has everything to do with AG's question about a woman's true sexuality. It seems to me that Chickaboom and Jennifer Lynne have described true feminine sexuality. Jennifer said she has “chosen a male-led relationship dynamic” and that “his pleasure, my yielding—is the pleasure for me.” In a “proof in the pudding” kind of argument, each of these women has a satisfying relationships with her man and I'm betting their men are appreciative and satisfied as well.

Chickaboom said, “I think I can safely speak for these women when I say that the freedom they are talking about is the freedom to embrace their femaleness in the way their creator meant them to.” Correct me if I'm wrong, Chickaboom, that you weren't just talking about wearing veils but about a driving philosophy in you. There is tremendous freedom in that indeed. (Is it too personal to say that I perceive you have an obedient and cooperative spirit? And that is priceless. It is also what gives us true freedom. Like Jennifer said, "I could try to explain, but A. this forum will probably not be the most receptive and B. this isn't really the place for it anyway," but I believe you'll understand what I mean. )

Regarding the terms “submission” and “subjection,” there's often a negative connotation implied. We submit to or allow ourselves to be subject to both duties and pleasures of our own choice with the knowledge that we will benefit from it. Jennifer Lynne said this so well that there's no need for me to elaborate (yielding to pleasure). Subjugation or oppression or conquest or certainly rape describe a different thing. Forgive me, it's about trying to make things easier to understand with our use of words. You know how I am.

Good points, Bebe. But, although that may be true sexuality for Jennifer and Chickaboom that they are comfortable with and have established in their relationships, I really think it runs deeper than realizing your femaleness in a relationship. I hope I understood you correctly, because I don't want to offend.
My question is anthropological and maybe even historical, although from what I have seen from history, women always seem to get the shaft in most scenarios.
Maybe I am a bit of a warrior woman at heart, trying to see a stronger dominant woman who is completely comfortable in her own skin. A woman that can have a sexuality apart from being female or even acting like a male. And, I am not suggesting a dominatrix, pain is not my idea of a good time either. But that's just me, not judging again.
It seems to me being raised in a male dominated world, overall, just isn't working. I don't want the women's libber in me come out too much as I fear it is, because I am talking sexuality. And, I am coming from a place of childhood oppression and abuse, sexual and otherwise. Damaged children view sexuality as naughty, and it was from that place that I viewed the world I lived in, especially when there is no healthy introduction to it. I was raised to always think about getting a man, and that's what I tried to do. I did finally snatch up a good one in my early twenties, but I morn all that lost time before that. Time I could have been looking after me, if only someone would have encouraged me. Oh well, no crying over split milk!
No offence, but I still don't think my question has been answered. I think there is more to being truly sexual and truly female as a woman.

That's why I posted separately. My first post was to emphasize your and others' questions in suggesting a forum on sexuality. The second was to tell it as it seems to me, according to the rule of tolerance of forum members.

We certainly do have sexuality ("the capacity to have erotic experiences and responses" Wikipedia) whether we're in a relationship or not, let alone what "kind" of relationship we're in. It is deep and mysterious and involves genetics, anthropology and history, religion, and so on. In fact, all these things are either permeated by it or we find our sexuality so much affected by these things. That's why it bears more discussion and (in my opinion) deserves a forum topic of its own. Yes, there is more to being truly sexual and truly female as woman. I'm glad you separated truly sexual and truly female so both facets can be investigated and added to the puzzle...no, no...the diamond...of the whole woman.

Point taken, Bebe. I do understand where you are coming from. For me, the more questions raised, the more I seem to have. It really is a broad and deep subject, isn't it.

Thanks for those posts. I appreciate (both comprehend and value) what you've said.

I know NLP practitioners suggest you put an elastic band on your wrist and when you find yourself thinking in old habits you snap the band. Its intention is certainly not the pain but the distraction and reminder. Conventional psychoanalysis has long known the connection between sex and anger. If you sit with the feeling of your anger and don't respond to it then you in all probability will feel a sexual arousal. So Jennifer I think you are drawing a long bow on what you are saying about an anal plug and anger management. These nooks and crannies you wish to explore are of your mind.

Your post resonated very strongly. My aim is to be a whole person, I already serve and I also lead and as a whole person, certainly not permissively.

Thank you, Fab.

Yes, I have to say I did find Fab’s contention that it wasn’t healthy or desirable to sexually experiment in one’s forties (and beyond) a bit weird too. Why ever not? To me, it would be like saying I'm never going to try a new cooking recipe, or restaurant, or holiday destination. Unless we have misread what you were trying to say Fab?

But I also find the idea of sexual or religious submission strange too. Not judging anyone else’s choices in this regard, just not finding the case compelling for myself. And Aging Gracefully’s (stemming from Christine’s) question is one I am interested in too. How does a woman discover the nature of her own sexuality, without it being dominated by masculine sexuality? I have definitely felt this in my own relationship. His has seemed so dominant at times that mine felt overshadowed. And I also think about these questions in regard to my son and daughter. Obviously I would want to reinforce to them that any sexual behavior they engage in should be consensual; but beyond that, what is the best way for them to discover their sexuality?

Love how you put that curiosity. That is my feeling on the subject, making me wonder what it would have been like being raised as a strong independent woman who can also see her feminine side as an attribute, not as a hindrance of competition with men.
I still like, although I don't see this happening any time soon, the idea of men becoming more like woman, or maybe just becoming more aware of what we are truly about, not what we can do for them. Not man bashing here! I do have a good man in my life who does really care for me.

I recently rewatched the movie "To Wongfu with Love, Thank you Julie Newmar". Maybe some of you remember this one where Patrick Swazey plays a drag queen. I liked the end where the abused wife who finally sees her true worth, says to Patrick's character Vita, "i don't think of you as a man or as a woman, but I see you as an angel." His reply is,"I think that's healthy."
Something to think about in the bigger scheme of things.

Isn't it great that this new forum on Gender Issues has been added? I want to say one more thing on this thread before we move away from the 'anal plug' title.

Regarding investigating our sexuality as 'age appropriate', I'd been sleepwalking through life for a long time, more than twenty years. About nine years ago I woke up....sort of like Rip Van Winkle (Wrinkle now)...and have discovered it's not too late. I've made a lot of progress between the ages of 54 and 63 (where I am now) and expect to continue opening up, growing and learning for an indefinite period of time (how do I know how long it will last?).

Jennifer Lynne, I understand about the 'softening'. My process is inverse....letting go of the anger, softening, allowing affectionate feelings in myself toward my dear husband, then arousal. It is true that softening begets sensitivity begets responsiveness begets alertness and continues in a beautiful living circle no matter where you enter it. Also, I don't exclude from softness, sensitivity, and responsiveness the idea of intensely passionate feelings (including hurt and anger which would follow along with awareness). Surviving also recently commented on the necessity of living with awareness/alertness.

Curiousity, how about if you try to look at one kind of sexual submissiveness as cooperation instead of subjection? You might find that idea more tasteful to you. I would have more to say about this, but there'll be other opportunities. A male dominated relationship is frustrating; a cooperative relationship is better. I am able to be in a dominant/submissive relationship because my husband is capable, sensitive and a trustworthy friend. It takes two to cooperate in a relationship like that....just like it would in any relationship people contract with each other.

Jennifer, no one here is going against you and your choices. If that does it for you, then that's ok! Some of us may disagree, because we have made other choices. I just find it nice to discuss all of them.
Just a question, please don't be offended, but have you ever tried being the dominant in the relationship? Taking turns might be just as much of a turn on.

Dear Bebe,
I've been wanting to respond to your question but was a bit embarrassed to derail the (already derailing) thread. Now that the new forum has been made I'm going to go ahead and derail away.

Basically yes, submission is definitely a driving force, as you put it, in my life. The religion I practice (and I hate the word religion for this light that permeates my life) literally means "submission through which peace is attained". The more I submit or surrender the more inner balance and peace I have. So what is submission? It's putting God's word above my own whims, desires, inclinations. Choosing his commands even when my desires clash with them. Of course it's a constant struggle and some days I'm more submitting (and more at peace) than others.

So when I am being submissive to my husband or whatever, it's not for any fancy philosophical reason that my (simple minded) self has come to, I just want to do what my creator tells me to because I know the balance & peace that I'll get in return. If my husband happens to be a tool in that, we'll he's lucky. ;-)

I remember once a discussion on here about the golden years in a persons life - around 60 years old or so - when the weakening of the sexual desire and the maturity of the mind help one to focus on the more spiritual aspect of life. And how western society doesn't like to admit to a woman's natural decline in Sexual interest (and sometimes ability) after menopause, etc. It was interesting. (in fact, it's what came to my mind when Christine mentioned genetic sexual differences that need to be acknowledged etc..)

Chickaboom,
What do you find derailing about this thread? I mean yes, it did start with an anal plug, but I love how each woman has responded from the truest place in her heart here. And, Christine has made it a forum topic to let us go how far, I don't know.
I just wanted to say that I loved your post, how you described your faith and your feelings. It was beautiful! I just wish I was in a place to allow that kind of peace in my life, religious or not, doesn't matter to me, but I wanted you to know I appreciated your honesty.

Yes, I do hope Christine or someone who knows does come back with an answer to the question of sexuality after a certain age. I am still having periods, still able to enjoy sex physically at the age of 51, but ya, I do wonder or worry about what it will be like as I get older. Or, what mine or my husbands expectations will be like as we get older. Will we even care?

I think I get what you are saying, and it sounds like if he says, "I want, I want, I want," then that makes you respond in kind, whereas I find myself going, "I don't want, I don't want, I don't want," without being able to articulate what it is that I do want (the overshadowing that I was talking about). This has been unsatisfactory for both of us, as his satisfaction is very dependant on mine. He has had to learn to back off to allow my own sexual expression. Perhaps ours has to be female-led for it to work, like yours is male-led.

Lol! That is a cute story about your mother, Jennifer. But I think the question runs deeper. Do we as women really want to, or do we feel socially pressured to keep up with an ideal that might not even be necessary. I think for myself, if I am not still feeling that sensuality, or if lube isn't doing it for me, I would be content, I hope, to just cuddle with the hubby.
What would be the norm without outside influences pushing us to view ourselves in certain ways? I guess the question of genetics, and true differences between men and women come into play here also. I remember in the nursing homes I worked in many of the men were always rearing to go if you gave them a chance, where the women could care less. Makes me wonder of such things.
Just food for thought, and more thought.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I understand what you mean by hating to use the word religion to describe that permeating light and energy (driving force) which can only be said to be God. I suspect that's what you mean by derailing this thread and I won't go on and on about it. It's affirming to me to hear someone else talk about being submissive to God and I wanted to acknowledge that fellowship with you.

I've heard the same thing about sexual desire waning in these years after motherhood is fulfilled, when the nest is established but empty, and we find ourselves with time on our hands. It's a second life or a second chance at life, a hopeful and exciting time, to pursue spiritual things. If we don't spend it looking back with regret and trying to right past wrongs that can't be righted (though some can and should be), we still have whatever lies ahead of us to enjoy. I wonder if the decline in sexual desire isn't also related to a removal by years and business and trouble of the loving relationships couples start with. Perhaps if the relationship is reestablished in affection, sexual interest would be too. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to just spend the rest of my life seeking and fulfilling sexual satisfaction, but I do think it's part of coming to wholeness. In my case the conversation we have about spiritual things increases our affection for one another and that, as said before, increases arousal. OMG! I've just related spiritual conversation and sex in the same sentence! What will happen now?

I will give it one more try.
" It seems curious to me that you would try to make an argument against sexual experimentation based solely on my age."
I find this statement totally disingenuous. Your age 41, your wanting to self harm that is of course if you truly have a severe uterine prolapse and I think you would understand why I would be questioning this at this time, your anger, and your headaches are signals. You can ignore them, sublimate them, punish them and otherwise deal with them as you see fit, but that does not entitle you to my permission to self harm.
Curiosity, I don't see how you can view what I have written as an argument against sexual experimentation at what ever age one may choose to do it. If it wasn't for the elephant in the room, the whole thing would not have been a question here. And it was in light of full experience of this elephant that all my answers have been made.

emotional reservations, religious mental perspectives.... religious influences that caused confusion.....
So I feel that some women even men are late bloomers you'ld be surprised. I saw an episode of Oprah where a woman was late 60's and for the first time began to feel her sexuality. Same for me. I began to feel my feminine self only 8 years ago. At 40...something...
It is mental growth and connecting sometimes with the spouse that makes it all deeper and more amazing. I can count on my hand because I learned holding an emotional connection is weak. I did one time and cried. So I am hoping for more rich bedroom excitement someday.....like what happened those times I felt connected......Not that I need it tho...Relationships evolve, grow, die,,,,. Im cool with or without....
mental intimacy, freedom, naked, vulnerable, safety, acceptance, honesty...not accessible or obtainable to majority of couples in my opinion...

I reread Fab's posts, and I get what she is saying. I think you may be taking sentences out of context of the whole message. Namely 41 and experimenting. You have a severe uterine prolapse, and talk of using an anal plug which could cause more physical problems for you. Could that be the self mutilating behavior?
Fab speaks in a very deep and cerebral way and that
I would not feel comfortable trying to explain what she means the way she means it.
As a lost child, I see what she means about midlife crisis behaviors, because if you haven't worked some of these issues out when your younger, they show up again, and again in other behaviors as you get older. I am in the pushing family away phase. Namely mother issues.
When I worked in the hospice, the biggest complaint I got from dieing people was regret. Regret that they didn't do more, regret that they didn't do things differently, regret that they didn't spend more time with family, ect, and so on.
So, I don't think this is just about sexuality, but a deeper resonance of finding ones self, and being comfortable with that person.
Sorry if I have overstepped. Just my view of it all at this point in time.

I would like to rewind a little. Jennifer, you came onto the forum to talk about your multiple prolapses and describe all the ways you had found to cope with them (posture being barely a blip on the radar) and then proceeded to ask if sticking something up your rear for sexual stimulation was a good idea. Christine herself has addressed all of this quite adequately, although anyone with a prolapse (especially a developing rectocele) would have already known the answer to this question without having to ask. I hope that amidst all this lively discussion, you have taken away two important points: If you are not living in the posture, you are not managing prolapse. And if the idea of sticking something up your butt takes precedence over serious management of prolapse, then I hope you’ll do more research. I do agree that you are a bit too old for this type of experimentation; you can adjust your priorities now, or have it thrust upon you at menopause or thereafter. - Surviving

fab, your description of sexual experimentation in midlife paints only one side of the story. i'm not disputing the reality you describe. it is factual for some.

the other side is the realization that the attitudes and beliefs with which we were indoctrinated growing up may be deeply antithetical to our own true nature. the tension that often exists between our basic nature and our societal programming is what leads to our crucial midlife transitions. our social programming gives us the tools to launch our lives, but in the same way that the shell of an egg protects the developing bird embryo, if the bird does not break out of the shell, the shell will be fatal to it.

the process of becoming and finding our own authenticity that many experience in midlife may result in leaving marriages and careers. but that doesn't mean the person is acting out of fear or struggling to recover their lost youth. often we discover that social norms should be guidelines and not straight jackets. finding our authenticity requires experimentation to learn who we really are and are not and renegotiating our relationship with the "shoulds and ought tos" with which we were raised.

some come to this in their 30s, some in their 70s. many discover they have been doing all the right things for all the wrong reasons and need to break out of their current situations to survive.

some relationships are big enough to absorb the changes we go through, some are not. fortunately, christine and i have a relationship that has survived a very challenging period for both of us. not everyone is so fortunate. but i believe it is wrong to judge the effects of changes people go through without a deeper look at the individual transformations the individuals involved may be going through. i think this is particularly true for women because both the nature of their socialization, which is very different from men, their biochemistry and their role in the reproductive process.

i believe if we are not pushing our own limits, experimenting and trying new things, we run the risk of slipping into what may be a comfortable, but stagnant life. novelist kurt vonnegut once described the energy that drives the universe as "the universal will to become." growing, stretching, pushing the limits keeps us vital and facilitates our becoming. so hats off to you jennifer.

therein lies the very male point of view and one too without the actual experience of pelvic organ prolapse and one full of nice rationalizations and a denial of other old universal truthsand yet another misrepresentation of what I have actually written in these posts.

Both graceful and surviving have expressed very well, and way better than I, what I am saying.

I would like to apologize to you fab, and to Jennifer, also, because I do feel I overstepped into your discussion. I want you to know though, Fab, that I did not read judgement in your posts. I read concern and maybe a little wry devil's advocate in the way you write, but that's just me. Your writings always make me think, and I like that aspect.
As point of discussion, I would like to say that I agree that we should keep growing and exploring our world, as Lanny had put very nicely in his last paragraph, but as a woman I don't want it to be sex-centric. Maybe some women do still explore that at older ages, and maybe they even enjoy it. Who am I to know? Since our children left the home a few years ago and we got over that initial empty nest syndrome, my hubby and I decided to explore and to get out more, mostly enjoying hiking, camping, and scenic views. But, we also are trying to ground ourselves in family and realize our role as grandparents. My hubby always says that our grandkids are the future and everything else is the past. So we balance ourselves between exploring our world with a new view, and enjoy those cute little grandkids and what they expect of us.
Neither one of us are highly sexual, so maybe that's why I don't get the need for it all the time, or to even think about all that much. Not that we don't enjoy it. Therein the questions start to arise again about the genetics, societal expectations, and even the necessity of the sex act.

fab, you are very quick to play the gender card on my comment, which had nothing to do with prolapse. yes, i have read the whole thread and am aware of the genesis of the conversation. your presumption of jennifer's interest in an anal plug as "self-harm" it seems to me says more about you than jennifer. only jennifer can be the judge of whether or not her plug is detrimental to her prolapse.

your comment to me that my post was "full of nice rationalizations and denial of old universal truths and yet another misrepresentation of what i have written in these posts" is both condescending and meaningless. i have spent more that thirty years working with individuals and organizations in transition and managing change. you may consider them "nice rationalizations" but i stand by them. there is more to becoming than dealing with neurosis.

it's not clear to me what "universal truths" i may have been denying, but it seems to me that the broad view of this thread is that there appear to be remarkably few universal truths when it comes to sexuality, relationships, and spirituality.

and, i beg to differ that i have misrepresented what you said. i think i spoke very directly to your "thanks jennifer" post of january 10th. your description of midlife transition is very lopsided and i felt it needed some balancing out. i must say, however, your comment to jennifer "These nooks and crannies you wish to explore are of your mind" (January 11th post entitled "Well Jennifer") and your implication that jennifer's sexuality is somehow related to unresolved anger is presumptive and dangerous psychobabble and completely inappropriate outside of a psychotherapeutic environment.

if the intent of your comment to me was to "butt out" if you'll forgive the pun, then all i can say is that this is a public forum and as christine's partner in whole woman i do have a right to be here and speak my mind as long as i play by the rules of being polite, constructive and supportive. does your response to my original post meet the same criteria?

no need for any apology graceful. I loved your description of the ages of life that you and your husband are traversing together with its varied and timely occupations, and concerns.

Many of the presumptions you accuse me of and questions you ask of me could again in turn be reassigned to your own door. I don't see the need or benefit in replying to any of them. After all they are only semantic tricks, not real concepts from "psychobabble" or anywhere else. Your anger is obvious, but I do not apologise on this occasion if I have given rise to it as I have done on a few previous occasions for the benefit of the forum. I will reiterate my stand. Someone with a severe uterine prolapse, as claimed, would be aware of the physical implications of wearing an anal plug. If through some amazing degree of unknowing they are not, then they can try it and see and if feeling in a generous mood can report back. I am not convinced of Jennifer's genuineness in this matter. You failed to pick up on these particular clues which I overlayed in my previous response to you. And therein lies the whole sorry tale.

This all makes me very sad. I have always seen fab and surviving as the protectors of this forum that you and Christine have so lovingly created and maintained for us all to get the support we need. They sometimes ask the hard questions to get the the root of some situations, and are sometimes very blunt, but I really appreciate them and their honesty.
Maybe going outside prolapse issues wasn't such a good idea, afterall.
Wish you all well.

I think that from the beginning of this discussion, it has been hard for some us to relate to Jennifer's concerns. But it's impossible to have a long, drawn-out and very personal discussion like this without trampling on people's core beliefs and getting judgmental about different lifestyles and different priorities.

I admire Jennifer's openness, and I'm happy for her that she is having a sexual awakening of sorts, while simultaneously dealing with significant prolapse. But I want something more for her. I want her to understand the "big picture" about posture.....but she clearly does not get it, and isn't that interested in what we really do on this site. It's OK to have a side conversation like this one, but it is beside the point.

We are all of us self-absorbed to a degree, but we need to fight that tendency and look outside of ourselves for satisfaction. This world is so full of things that need doing and people that need help. Jennifer, I know that your life could not possibly revolve around sex to the degree that it seems to, but that is all you've shown us so far. What I want for you is that you come to truly understand your body in ways that you will never do until you embrace Christine's teachings. This is the foundation you'll need to face the decades ahead of you. If you abandon WW without learning it, you will suffer in the end. - Surviving

Forum aside, please do not give up on the Whole Woman approach to prolapse. Please remember that this is a large forum of women and only a few have weighed in on the great anal debate of 2014 :-) These heady topics usual generate a lot of fuel on the forum which can either "light it up or burn it down", and generally there will be a period of licking wounds.

Pull up into that strong Whole Woman posture, tuck up the prolapse(s) and listen to what your body, heart and soul are telling you.
Hugs!