destination prolapse free

The main reason for starting this particular program is so that people who can't readily access the other materials can get it immediately in this format. I feel you have given us a loaded question here. In my mind everything that Christine presents is invaluable. I am sure Christine and Lanny have put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this project as they have with any of the other works they have so graciously given us, and that the price is applicable to what they had to put into it.
Yes, there is some new material with this series along with a lot of the tried and true information that you will find in the books and DVDs.
I personally don't think they should have to justify the prices they put on Christine's work, because she has helped so many of us get our lives back to a normal place again. But, that's just me. If, you go to the doctors office, they would be charging that amount just to walk in the door, much less even look at you yet.
Sorry, don't mean to be confrontational, but I believe very strongly in Christine's work.

Exactly, the program was conceived so that scared newly-prolapsed women could begin streaming this knowledge on-line immediately to anywhere in the world, instead of paying high postage and then waiting weeks to receive anything. So of course there is overlap between this program and Christine's other works. At the same time there is a lot of great new stuff that Christine's devoted followers will not want to miss. Her work is constantly evolving and she continues to have fresh insights every day, as anyone who follows this forum will know. Everything that WW ever produced contains something that you will not find anywhere else.

The 10-minute workout is a bit of a misnomer, as it is actually almost 25 minutes long and contains some new moves that Christine has developed which have radically improved her own symptoms. She shares so much of her own story in this program. It is the work of a lifetime!

I'd consider calling WW and maybe you will speak directly to Lanny and get other questions answered. - Surviving

Hi ..this is my first time on a forum and I don't know if this is where I am meant to connect with you all but not sure where else to post a comment... so just checking in and looking forward to receiving the dvds that my daughter is ordering for me.. am doing the little bits and pieces I have found on the WW site.. I have been struggling for 10 years now and had failed and traumatic stitching repair 7 years ago.. so am hoping to get some healing with the new approach .. thanks...

Hi peacelilly and welcome,
You have certainly come to the right place to help you with any concerns about prolapse. Christine's work has a wealth of information to get you started on your journey!
Just a question: what kind of stitching did you have?

hi joy,

your question is legitimate. our rationale for the pricing is that 1) the program is the equivalent to a workshop with christine and priced accordingly. unlike a workshop where all you take away is your new knowledge and memory, you have access to the video modules indefinitely as many times as you want and need to reinforce your learning and discover the nuances that you missed in earlier study. 2) christine has found over the years that about 90% of the knowledge transfer she delivers in a workshop is the same from session to session and that only about 10% is specific to a woman's unique condition or situation. so to accommodate that 10%, we have included a 30 minute consultation call with a practitioner christine has trained and certified. we have to pay the practitioners for their time.

aside from the time and effort necessary to produce the program initially, while streaming video avoids the expense of having DVDs produced, the infrastructure for managing the membership, hosting and delivering these videos is not a trivial expense. our content delivery network is global so that women in australia or south africa or the UK are being delivered videos cached on servers in their home country to insure the highest quality playback.

in the final analysis, cost isn't really the issue (unless you are choosing between educating yourself or putting food on the table). the issue is value.

what i can tell you is this. in all her prior books and DVDs, christine has delivered a great deal of information, as you are aware. as you are also aware, the body of knowledge has continued to grow and expand for more than 10 years now. Destination: Prolapse-Free is the most comprehensive, structured, systematized, step-by-step program she has ever put together. the new exercise program itself is worth the price of admission. every morning when christine comes out of the studio after her workout, she just shakes her head in amazement at how effective it is at repositioning her pelvic organs.

again, think of the program as a workshop with christine without the cost of flying to albuquerque, staying two or three nights in a hotel, eating out every day and with a recording of the whole event that you can refer to again and again. we strongly believe the value is there. aging gracefully made the comment, "I am sure Christine and Lanny have put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this project as they have with any of the other works they have so graciously given us, and that the price is applicable to what they had to put into it."

actually, our pricing is not based on what we put into it, but on what we believe you will get out of it.

as a long-time and loyal customer, your loyalty and interest in the program is greatly appreciated. we would not be offering this program priced as it is if we did not believe you would be getting much more than your money's worth in return. as a business, whole woman is a labor of love. as i have told a few other women lately, if christine and i were as passionate about the pursuit of money as we are about keeping women out of the operating room, there would be no whole woman!

thank you for your question joy, and please understand our long time forum moderators and friends are a bit protective of us (thank you ladies!). as i said, yours is a legitimate question and i felt deserved an answer from us directly.

do feel free to call if you have any further questions, and just a reminder that everything in the store is on sale this week for 20% off (including consultations and hips intensives) and i've taken $100 of the cost of Destination: Prolapse-Free, but the sale ends friday night at midnight US mountain daylight time (GMT -6). so if you want to take the plunge, you have until a little over 24 hours from now.

For other women reading this who were unaware of the sale, for store products, enter WWSS in the redemption code box on the page where you enter your credit card information. the discounted total will appear on the next page prior to your final commitment.

thanks again joy for your question and again, feel free to call or write if you have any further questions.

all the best,

lanny (christine's DH)

Thankyou.. I actually don't know what it was.. I did have a copy of the report but I think I recently discarded it (in disappointment no doubt).. my current gyno said it has left a hole or gap (not sure) .. but I have severe prolapse of bladder and uterus and some rectocele.. so very debilitating... am ordering the whole woman bundle which is 3 dvd's... if I find the previous stitching info somewhere I will let you know.

Yes that is great information and it was exactly the question that was on my mind so I am very appreciative for the question and feedback...

the question was fair and deserved a thoughtful answer. glad it helped.

lanny

Hi Aging gracefully,, I cant find my info on the operation I had but I believe it was an anterior and posterior repair... so I am hoping I can still get some relief with the ww work... my dvds should arrive soon.. I feel I am improved slightly already and that is just from being relieved and hopeful possibly... I have stage 3 (I think) cystocele and uterus drop.. struggling along but determined..

I have watched all the modules and am now trying to assimilate your approach into my clinic.
I have listed my questions below: I do understand that you are not approaching this from a medical/health professional perspective, but it would really help me to hear your thoughts.

1. Often, after childbirth, there is an avulsion of one side of the pelvic floor muscles (recognised by ultrasound scanning) How does this trauma fit into the pelvic "wall" concept because even if the structures are in the abdomen, the outlet is not balanced?
2. I do a lot of work with women around pelvic floor relaxation and lengthening (i.e. not just strengthening) Do you see any worth in this work in conjunction with your posture and programme?
3. We recommend abdominal binders and support in the early postnatal weeks (especially for rectus abdominis diastasis) How does this fit with your work? This is a very common practice in many other cultures (middle east) and women love the binding. Do you think it is worthwhile?
4. Research does show that pelvic floor exercises can improve prolapse symptoms and also reduce symptoms of stress incontinence. What are your thoughts?
5. Have you heard of the Alexander Technique? I use this a lot and I think it does fit into your approach.
6. I am not convinced about your idea of position for bowel motions : I think a person needs to be in supported squatting with thighs against abdomen (as in a pure squat) to support both sides of the colon. In squatting the position the rectum also comes into more of a straight line so that the risk of pushing into a rectocoele is reduced.
I also think the legs should be as relaxed as they can be because the pelvic floor complex is activated by foot and ankle movement and if you stand a little the muscles go into partial spasm against a contracting rectum.

Anyway, these are some thoughts and discussion points. I have found your modules really good and all the work useful.

Christine has written several articles on the subject of Kegels. Here are two that you may have missed:
http://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=1497
http://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=118

The truth of her articles is self-evident to anyone like myself, who kegeled religiously for decades and ended up with significant cystocele and rectocele after menopause. If Kegels worked, they would have wiped prolapse off the map by now!! - Surviving

PS: A great deal of post-partum prolapse resolves all by itself, at least temporarily. Such was the case with me. Had I been Kegeling like crazy during that period, I'm sure I would have reported the "success" of my Kegeling. But I wasn't. That's how I know, and I am quite sure that the research you speak of contains much anecdotal stuff just exactly like this.

The evidence for kegels does seem pretty thin on the ground, but I did come across this recently: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)61977-7/abstract

The mean age of the women in the study was mid fifties, so I guess post partum recovery could be ruled out.

Has anyone else seen this?

The problem I see with doing a study on pelvic floor training in post partum women is that they don't take into account the natural healing process the takes up to two years after a woman has her baby. So, how could you differentiate what was actually natural healing of the body and what was actually accomplished from pelvic floor training.
Furthermore, there have been women that are not post partum that have come on the forum who were prescribed pelvic floor training and reported that it wasn't doing anything for them.
The dynamics are so different than Christine's model of postural work. Christine's methods just make more sense to me when you put them side by side.
Let there be a study of Christine's work next to pelvic floor training and let's see which has the higher success rates. Doing studies on naturally healing bodies of post partum women just doesn't seem sound or even reliable. Just my opinion.

If we are going have yet another Kegel discussion, I'm going to go watch a movie or something! Ten+ years of work and Christine is still being challenged on this.

My own life is what tells me that Kegels are worthless. Christine's explanation of why that is true, simply helped me visualize and understand something I'd already figured out. No one who is doing any of these studies even knows what the "pelvic floor" is or isn't, much else how to best care for it.

To any prolapsed woman who wishes to continue squeezing her muscles and pulling her organs INTO the vaginal space, I say, be my guest. Just so we don't have to keep talking about it!

Sorry, it's been a long day. - Surviving

That's ok surviving. You have definetely had your work cut out for you on this subject. I am just wondering what linrose's agenda is here. To ask questions or challenge Christine's work on her website?
Yes, Lanny, I am becoming overly protective again.

AG, i think that Curiosity's point was that the study was in older women. She was responding to my anecdote about my own personal post-partum experience.

I believe that Linrose is a PT who sent questions in to be answered on Christine and Lanny's recent phone-in session (she was not on the call). Christine answered her questions and this may be Linrose's followup. Christine will probably respond - Surviving

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

Let there be a study of Christine's work next to pelvic floor training and let's see which has the higher success rates.

I couldn't agree more AG, and have said so before:

https://wholewoman.com/forum/comment/36043#comment-36043

I think it is a total fallacy to focus on the bulgy symptoms, which change from moment to moment in everyone. A woman in a study can squeeze her muscles, because she's told to, and maybe she feels better the next day. Maybe the day after that, she feels worse. We all experience that, and it's impossible to quantify, which is why Christine doesn't even try. Better to understand the anatomy and to do what is best for our symptoms in the long run, not to mention our hips, our spine, and our entire body and being. There is no cure. If squeezing make a woman feel like she is helping herself, then I feel that whoever told her that was the case has done her a disservice. Let her learn the true story of prolapse and make her own way, if this is what PT has to offer. - Surviving

Hi Linrose,

Thanks for writing in and I will be happy to respond to your questions one by one.

1. I covered this subject a couple of years ago (click here) and find it very unsettling that the concept of levator avulsion continues to have so much momentum within the medical community. As I wrote in my blog, imaging of these supposed avulsions (tearing away) of the levator from the pubic bone is highly subject to interpretation. Two individuals: John DeLancey in the U.S., and Peter Dietz in Australia, are responsible for popularizing this supposedly widespread cause of prolapse.

Dietz claims that levator avulsion at least triples the risk of significant anterior wall prolapse, yet he refers to his own and DeLancey’s studies to back up this statement.

Like the paravaginal defect, which ran its course as the premier theory of anterior wall prolapse (after untold millions of women were subjected to the extremely damaging and unsuccessful paravaginal defect repair), avulsion is yet another scheme conjured up to drive more women into the operating room.

Sound far-fetched?

Dietz writes, “Levator avulsion may help select women for mesh surgery; in fact, it may be considered reasonable to see avulsion as an indication for the use of anchored anterior compartment mesh”. And lo and behold a patent was filed this year in Australia for just such a device click here. Dietz is a consultant for AMS Research Corporation.

It is hardly a secret that a great amount of stretching occurs in the soft tissues at the back of the pubic bones. If the cause were half the levator ani muscle having torn away from the bone these women would manifest prolapse (and extreme pain) immediately after birth. A much more likely scenario is that the bladder is chronically pushed backward into the vaginal wall as described in Destination. There is only one thing to do and that is get the weight of the bladder forward. The urogynecologic conceptual framework of prolapse is illogical and dangerous.

2. The WW posture and exercises are designed to lengthen the pelvic diaphragm. I believe much of the PT approach to prolapse that involves internal exams, measures, electrical stimulation, etc. is invasive and unnecessary. The exception would be post-surgery women who have a lot of scar tissue in this area who might be helped by massage.

3. As I illustrate in my soon-to-be-released program, Restore Your Goddess Belly, diastasis recti is a problem with the entire front line of the body, which reaches from the upper thighs to the base of the skull. Abdominal binders are simply a wrong concept.

4. I would argue that there are no well-designed studies showing kegels to have a positive effect on prolapse. Logic dictates that kegels positively effect SUI because they draw the bladder toward the front vaginal wall, creating a cystocele. For decades it has been commented upon in the literature that SUI improves as cystocele becomes more pronounced. Many women here have validated that theory.

5. Alexander identified the natural placement of the human head and shoulders. WW posture incorporates that alignment.

6. A full squat closes the pelvic diaphragm and is an undesirable way to defecate and to give birth. Traditionally, women spent a great deal of their time hugely pregnant. These women did not squat all the way down - it just is not practical or even largely feasible. As I explained in Destination, we essentially have the hind quarters of a quadruped. Our bowels work best when we drop our pelvic organs into our lower belly (where they are protected from the forces of intraabdominal pressure) by leaning forward and allowing the pelvic diaphragm to be a wall and not a floor. The full squat presses thighs against abdomen. The half squat presses abdomen against thighs.

Western medicine has a very poor understanding of the anatomical orientation of the rectum. In the colorectal literature it is portrayed as vertical, while gynecology illustrates it as horizontal atop a horizontal pelvic floor. I would be interested in knowing what happens to the sigmoid in a full squat, as the sigmoid is all-important in the defecation reflex. I do know it sits to the right of the uterus and that twisting gently to the right facilitates emptying. Women quickly build up the muscle strength to hold themselves well in a half squat, what we believe to be the natural position for elimination.

Thank you so much for your positive feedback and I hope you find these comments useful. PT has the ability to radically change women’s healthcare if only it will abandon old and archaic concepts of anatomy and physiology.

Christine