red clover as Estrace substitute, acupuncture

Submitted by Dido70 on November 20, 2014 - 3:35pm
Body: 

Since receiving the suggestion that red clover balm would be a safer substitute for Estrace, I have done the following, but would like some further advice. I did not feel confident that I could make my own balm and had no luck finding some from local herbalists. I did buy red clover in capsule form and have been taking 2 a day for several weeks. In the meantime I was able to purchase off the web some red clover balm with comfrey made by A.E. Hunley.

My questions are: how much and how often should I apply it? When my doctor prescribed Estrace, he was very specific about how much and how often to apply it. Surely the same kind of approach should apply to red clover balm so that I would not be overdosing, so to speak. With that same thought in mind, shouldn’t I stop taking the capsules while using the balm?

I also recently learned that acupuncture and Chinese medicinal herbs can be helpful for prolapse. I am lucky that a Chinese woman who is a leading practitioner of both acupuncture and Chinese medicine practices locally. After an initial appointment and treatment, I have decided to give this approach a try, while continuing with the Whole Woman exercises. I am wondering if any of you are aware of the use of acupuncture and Chinese herbs or have had any experience with this approach that she claims will most likely aid in preventing my condition from worsening.

Dido 70

Forum:

Surviving60

November 20, 2014 - 4:52pm

Christine makes her own balm, and there is a video right on this site showing how she does it. Go to the Resources tab, then down at the bottom you'll see Living Arts. I can't answer your question regarding frequency of use. It's all very natural. You might find more information if you use the search box on the Forum and also on the Blog. I can't recall ever seeing it discussed that way. It's not like Estrace which is putting dangerous hormones into your bloodstream. Docs have a tendency to downplay the true absorption rate of these products. Why are you taking the Estrace? If the tissues are uncomfortable you might try Christine's honey routine.

I have heard of acupuncture and Chinese herbs for prolapse, but I do not really see how they would have much effect on the pelvic organ support system, which is a postural system. Have you adopted WW posture? Surviving

Aging gracefully

November 20, 2014 - 4:54pm

Put it into the search box; there may be some older discussions that have some information on how much to use. My mom actually bought some of the red clover balm, but she is using up the rest of her estrogen cream first. Her insurance won't cover it anymore, and out of pocket is $200. So, I won't know more until she actually starts using it.
The consensus on acupuncture, just like any of those types of therapies, is that it may feel good, but posture is what helps you manage prolapse. Make sure you are working on posture, not just the exercises, because once you can build the strength to hold it for longer, you will finally start realizing the benefit in how you feel.

Dido70

November 20, 2014 - 10:20pm

Thank you both for your comments.

I have been working diligently on my posture. I am far from assuming the posture without thinking about it, but I remind myself many, many times a day to hold myself in the WW posture.

I have been inclined to explore other alternatives to conventional medicine (besides WW) because my rectocele has worsened. It now bulges out of my vagina almost all the time and the tissue is stretched thin and is dry and sensitive from rubbing against my underwear.

As far as acupuncture is concerned, it it my understanding that according to Chinese medicine the spleen is responsible for helping the pelvic organs to stay in place and that strengthening the spleen can buttress the pelvic organs. I thought about looking into acupuncture because I have know people to have been helped with other kinds of conditions. I described the WW approach to the acupuncturist who was receptive to it and who said that the two approaches would not be incompatible. If you think it would be useful, I will report back about my experience with this treatment.

Surviving60

November 21, 2014 - 4:05am

What I would recommend for you is more firebreathing and jiggling of the organs into the lower belly. I would do this several times a day, including before and after elimination. Good diet to avoid constipation and straining; good position when on the toilet, lifting up and forward a bit while maintaining lumbar curvature. Protect lumbar curvature while driving. Watch body position when lifting and carrying. Lots of walking in very mindful WW posture. Always belly-breathe, never chest-breathe. More firebreathing and jiggling. If you are doing all these things, and still want to do acupuncture and Chinese herbs, I don't see the harm. Just make sure you are fulling engaged in moving the organs forward, because that is the key here. Think of yourself as the four-legged animal from the hips down. Picture yourself this way when you are upright. - Surviving

mysterymomof7

November 21, 2014 - 1:39pm

Is this safe for long term use to those of us who are not in peri-menapause or menopause?

Aging gracefully

November 21, 2014 - 1:54pm

I found this article about red clover:

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/redclover/ataglance.htm

You know you can google just about anything. I know when my time comes, I am going to try the honey like Christine uses it. My mom was just too grossed out by that idea, but she was open to using the balm, kind of. But, I think if the insurance would cover it, she would be back to the Premarin. If it were me, I would use a more natural remedy rather than a drug, that's why the honey seems like the best idea I have heard yet. Everyone must do the research for themselves though.

meems

November 22, 2014 - 1:59pm

I am 64 years old and in great health except for my pelvic floor prolapse. I take no meds and don't want to. Unfortunately, I didn't learn about the Whole Woman Forum and Christine Kent until after I had a hysterectomy for uterine prolapse and fibroids. My doctor mentioned in passing that I might have a problem after the surgery, that would require another minor surgery to build up the pelvic floor, but made it sound unlikely. Imagine my horror, when 2-3 months post-hysterectomy, I noticed a bulge-full-blown pelvic floor prolapse. I was thrilled to find the forum and the recommendation for honey as a moisturizer. Needless to say, I do not plan on another surgery. I am using the honey, and I just purchased Christine's book, Saving the Whole Woman. I have found this forum invaluable so far. Thanks so much to all who have contributed.

Surviving60

November 22, 2014 - 4:49pm

Hi Meems and thanks for posting. What kind of prolapse do you have? Is it the bladder and/or rectum, or is the vaginal vault losing its support? These days most hysterectomies are accompanied by a procedure to anchor the vaginal vault in place with sutures. Do take care with the WW work, go slowly and try doing some good walks in WW posture with soft and supportive socks and shoes to guard your spine and hips from too much impact. Keep us posted! - Surviving

nutty girl

December 3, 2017 - 12:38pm

Thank you for the information will look into this. Excellent post.