Un-'diagnosed' rectocele and ?

Body: 

Disclaimer: I am blunt and specific. I hope this does not offend anyone.

I am a 50 year old mother of 2 children (one C-section one vaginal birth), who are grown. Constipation since childhood. Fibromyalgia/IBS/High BP (cardiologist on the 30th of this month)/some malfunction with the vasovagal response when having a BM/peripheral neuropathy/polymorphisms of the P-450 family of liver enzymes (which means I cannot take medicines that are metabolized by those enzymes or I end up at a 72 hour vacation in the nut house) and the list goes on. I haven't had sex in, oh who knows, a long time....maybe twice in the last year although that may be an exaggeration.

Just a few weeks ago I realized something was wrong. So, as I often do, I head for the internet. Not finding what I was looking for I made an appointment. Which is set for tomorrow. I have read a number of things on P.O.P so far. And even though, with a little bit of research - I get it, it's freakin creepy sounding....I really don't like the idea of my body sagging on the outside AS WELL as on the inside. WTH? I'm over the initial shock of it all. I mean, who knew!? lol, I'll get used to it...maybe I'll just start wearing diapers...hmm? Now that makes me feel sex-say! Hey baby, wanna see my pull-ups?

In my research I came across numerous posts stating that if you were to insert your finger/thumb inside your vagina and push on the back wall, it may be easier to have a bowel movement. Again, who knew?! Gross, but it works. Shazam! I personally don't want to spend the rest of my life doing that.

As of the last week, I have a new.....umm, errr.....issue. Which started after the whole finger in the vagina thing. I have tried to find any information out there that gives me some sort of an answer, a link to the two. I can't find one. I am hoping you people here can give me some insight.

I believe I have a prolapse of bladder, uterus and, as I stated in the title - rectocele. Seriously, I don't even know how to say that word. So here is the deal, bluntly put. I feel as if I am on the verge of an orgasm all day long (plus the feeling of having to pee at the same time). OMG! Just imagine that for 5 minutes - if you can. I'll wait......fun stuff, huh? Everything I have read points to sexual DIS-function, as in difficulty being aroused or reaching climax.... not this!

What I feel inside my vagina is not what I see in pictures I have looked at on uterine prolapse. I mean, it's all 'right there', about an inch or so from the vaginal opening. Front side of the vaginal wall. Sometimes further in, sometimes not. I feel the cervix. But it is off to the side, a lot, pushed up against what feels like a tendon or the pelvic bone? Who knows what's in there. And other times it is pushed right up to that spot at the inside of the front vaginal wall. That famous and almost elusive G-spot. (it's right there - can't you feel it? lol) At this point, not even pushing it back where it belongs helps this sensation. I wonder...can you go nuts from constant sexual tension? (NOT relieved by orgasm) hahaha. Ok, so I'm joking. I know you can't. But, dang!

Honestly, I won't be shocked if no one has experienced this. This seems to be my M.O. now for years with any medical issue I have. But, I welcome all comments. Someone...anyone??

Thanks for taking the time to read.....

Hi Scissors and welcome. I'm sure you're not the first to have your G-spot impacted by a prolapsed organ or two. Sounds pretty distracting! Since you found our forum, you would have had to make your way through some information related to how we manage prolapse at Whole Woman. I'd recommend trying to cram a bit from the wisdom here, before you head off to the doctor tomorrow, because s/he will most likely not have any very helpful suggestions. Here is something to start you off:
https://wholewoman.com/newpages/video/ww101.html

The basic solution to the problem is to get our organs back into natural alignment, so we no longer have incontinence, or the need to split for bowel movements, or the needless fear of our organs falling out! Welcome to Whole Woman, please do have serious look around before tomorrow. - Surviving

Thank you Surviving60. I just watched the video (and took notes to take with me tomorrow). I appreciate your reply. I'm off to find more information here to jot down and take with me.

Great! Here's another one, even shorter, give it a look.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RvGROzIYN6w

I realize I have another problem. After reading about the posture and watching this last video, I'm not sure there is much hope for me. lol. I don't say that all "woe is me", but realistically. I did not mention in my first posting, but I have a bulging disc at T5 and T6 and 'idiopathic' inflammation at T4. (this is smack dab in the middle of your shoulder blades) Doing dishes causes my back muscles to spasm and my arms and hands to start to tingle and go numb. Even if it's just a quick wash up of, lets say, one place setting. I also am sway back and hunch back at the same time (as per the chiro) So, I'm sure that doesn't help at all. I also have always had abdominal pain that is ALWAYS blamed on my IBS. (personally, I don't believe that to be true)

Even walking around caused my guts to cramp. So, after all those years and 'guarding' my gut and back, by pulling my stomach muscles in to hold my guts still and hunching forward to try to escape the pain in my back.....I can see now that I may have caused all this by my response to pain and the fact that I could receive no help from any physician. It's the stance I adopted to lesson my pain. Hmmm.

Luckily, for me, I hardly have any of the IBS symptoms anymore, now it's more of a vasovagal syncope sorta deal (only when having a BM or after I eat). I quit taking all RX meds. And about 50% of my problems just vanished. Imagine that. So, when that happened I was able to relax my stomach muscles. But have always had this pulling down sensation, inside, about 2 inches below the sternum when I relax them totally. So I never really took a deep breath or completely relaxed. It hurt too much.

I'm not trying to be difficult, honestly! lol. But, this is all geared to posture and honestly I'm not sure I can change my posture and actually walk without being in excruciating pain. What to do? What to do?

Start very slowly, down on hands and knees, so that the organs fall naturally into the lower belly. This is where they are supposed to be. Prolapse generally goes bye-bye in this position. What does this feel like? Can you take a deep belly breath in this position? - Surviving

Most of us have had to completely un-learn that tight, sucked-in belly and the shallow chest-breathing (the reverse of natural belly-breathing) that results. But it's a must....your organs need a place to rest, away from the vaginal space. - Surviving

Yes, I can do that...and it actually feels good. What now? (I have also started a beginner Tia Chi class that I love - maybe that helps too? )lol... I have looked for information I am seeing in posts about fire breathing or more on the posture...am I missing it? could you direct me?

Thanks!

Hi, runz. You're a riot!! I like you already.

I'm a new comer here, and you have done a wonderful job of expressing the horror and frustration of all of this and yes, the distraction, although I think you're getting a much bigger dose of that than I am. For me, I actually feel more feminine for all of the sense of being broken down there. I'm holding out hope that as time marches on, I can actually own my femininity in ways I never have before, but, I have a long way to go.

As for the posture issues, I'm having to un-learn a lifetime of sucked in gut, tucked under tail and lifted by the shoulders posture. It hasn't been easy, because as soon as I think I have it, I realize that I only have part of it. Got the belly loose, check, tail un-tucked, check, shoulders nice and relaxed, check. I'm supposed to lift with my what??? My back is supposed to be how??? I get one area under control and realize I've lapsed in another. It took me all morning to let my belly go soft again today, and as I write this, I realize it's all held-in again.

I was really sore for the first couple of weeks from the changes, everything just dull-ached. I'm actually finding, though, that the relaxed shoulders is relieving me of a lifetime of tension in my shoulders and neck.

Some of the ladies here have long-term experience and have been a huge source of hope for me. Keep reading.

I'm new to all this too.

Trying to 'un-teach' myself all these horrible habits I've created. It's hard. Like you said, the minute you put your body in the position you want it in...bam! it's back to it's twisted self. Easier said than done. I am going to try though. Over and over...and over...and over lol, till I get it.

I have my appointment tomorrow. Thanks to Surviving60, I have notes I took while watching a video that she gave me a link to. And more notes from other articles here. I'm armed and ready. I'm sure I'll be back tomorrow with more questions. lol.

I'll watch for you.

I second Desert Rose, loving the way you word your posts Runzwifscissors. When you started with: Disclaimer: I am blunt and specific. I hope this does not offend anyone... I thought you're in the right place, not much about the nether regions or health offends us on here.

Good luck with everything and I second the posts on here that you just try to do the posture bit by bit and then yes when I think I have it I learn something new. I'm a year in and seeing results now and it's becoming pretty natural. The last thing to fall into place for me was the walking with the correct foot flex and the sway to my hips.

Hi ActiveandLapsed
....sway to the hips? First time I've heard about it. Where did you get that from?
I'm pulling out all the stops at the moment after a difficult year and a serious uterine prolapse.
I can imagine myself with this sway walking past my neighbours.....
Glad to hear you are seeing results now.

Runz, you asked about firebreathing and yes, it is a very important tool in prolapse management. It is featured in most of Christine's works, and the best place to start would be the First Aid for Prolapse dvd. The YouTube link you watched is an excerpt from that dvd. If you are looking for a good intro to the work, First Aid for Prolapse is the place to start. There are other great bundles in the Store. Good luck at the doctor today, and don't expect to hear any of this stuff from him or her. - Surviving

I'm not sure either, what A&L is referring to in the context of WW walking. - Surviving

I have not read anything on here about that but I bought a horse once (or three times - hahaha) and he was what some people like to call a push button horse. He had been so 'brainwashed/trained' that he didn't know how to act when some untrained person got on his back. Oh, he was awesome. But, I had to take lessons from a woman to learn how to ask him to do things. One thing I had a really hard time with was loosening my hips - like the trainer had told me to. So we did some walking exercises. She told me to walk like a hooker! LOL. Hmm, never been a hooker, so that was hard. But let me tell you - that will totally loosen up your hips and when you do that you relax your gut muscles and then your lower back muscles and the rest just follows. Because, believe it or not, when you walk like a hooker you are totally relaxed - everywhere. lol. So that makes perfect sense to me. hahahahaha

Oh, I'm ready for this nurse. I couldn't get an appointment with anyone else and have been waiting 2 weeks. This nurse was the nurse that told me that genetic testing (that I had just had done) was, and I qoute: Bad Science......Bad Science? Genetic testing is bad science? Sigh. See what I'm dealing with? Bla, that is a government run health care clinic for ya. Go figure, huh?
I wouldn't be surprised if she told me I was just fine, as I was 'accidently' peein on her exam room floor. Although, everything I have read about their ideas of 'fixing' this problem don't look very inviting to me and don't have any sort of long term help. In fact, it looks as if it just causes more problems. So, that is a little distressing. But, ultimately, I am the one who will make the decision, not them. They are only obligated to give you ideas and options. Period.

Hey runZ welcome and your post made me laugh.

You should Google constant genital arousal syndrome - it does happen to people! It has happened to me! Mine was likely irritation from the pudendal nerve that branches to rectum vagina and clitoris.

You're the first person I've seen on this forum mention vasovagal syncope - I think I have that too! Can you please describe your symptoms and sensations? Mine ranges from feeling nauseous/dizzy/sweaty before a BM to feeling overwhelmingly tired and sleepy and in bed all day (like today unfortunately).

Hi
Re the hip sway query... maybe it is just my hips not being so tight when I walk. I have a consult with Christine coming up so I can comment after in the meantime... I am sure at some stage I have read stuff about people saying they have more sway to their hips in WW posture. The experienced members can comment.

Until recently I was not walking with a straight leg on the push off so my toes were not flexed and my tail bone dropping. Since I have been doing this I notice my hips need to be looser to be more natural and have a longer stride. More like a latin dancer with the hips, femine, rather than holding them stiffly. They seem to move from side to side more as my glutes move up and down now my tail bone staying up. I don't mean my bum muscles are clenched but just that when the tail bone stays up the bottom is more pronounced. It answers why my 2 year old daughters bum cheeks wobble when she walks (don't know how to describe it). I have spent years trying to disguise my bottom and now it is finally being allowed to be a bottom.

There is a wonderful blog post about walking with a picture of the straight back leg and flexed foot. I am trying to find it but I was just going next post and next post and reading everything on there. So many wonderful articles.

I have not got my walking right this past year so I was really concentrating on finding all info on walking. It's the foot flex that causes it to happen for me and I can feel that my tailbone does not drop when I do this and hence my lumber curve stays in place. This is what the blog post says.

I like the Latin Dancer analogy better than the hooker one LOL. You would have had to know my trainer at the time...it would have all made sense. haha. And, yes...once I start paying attention to the way I am walking I realize that my whole body is tight (I'm assuming it is from chronic pain) even my feet. I broke my foot a year ago. A crack in the joint in the middle of the arch of my foot. I do baby that foot still. It is all relevant. Shake yer bootie!

I actually did google that, much to my dismay. Found any cures yet? I'm willing to try it all...sigh.
As for the vasovagal syncope....well, that has been around since I was a child. I was amazed and shocked, when I got older, that I had never ever heard anyone talk about how that is not normal. I just thought it was a normal thing. The older I get the worse the episodes are, but are also further apart. I have narrowed it down to meat for the most part. How sad. I love me some meat...nom nom nom.
Usually I will eat a meal that is rather large for me. Which might be just a single hamburger, although last time was a lamb chop. I ate and within 20 min I felt as if I was getting really sleepy. Then a little light headed. Then the gut cramps. OMG the are worse than labor. I have a super tiny house...it takes about 7 steps and you are from one side to the other. Not even kidding. lol. so the bathroom is really close, but I could not make it to the bathroom before I had to lay on the floor. My ears start hissing really loud. I still have vision...but it's like I cannot control myself. I loose all bodily functions - they just let loose. I would assume it is sorta what it feels like if you had narcolepsy. lol. Bam, yer down. But this last time it seemed to go on forever. Although in that state, it all seems like forever. When I would come to a little I would crawl towards the bathroom...I have no idea why it was so important to get to the bathroom. Except for the fact that I did not want to have an accident on the floor. I just wasn't thinking right. I got to the bathroom and crawled up on the toilet. As soon as I was done having a bowel movement (explosive diarrhea...which in itself is weird because I'm chronically constipated unless this happens) I got so light headed again I had to slide off the toilet to the floor and lay there for a bit. I then made it to the bed. I had to be helped up on it. And I don't know if I passed out, I don't remember...but when I realized I was still laying there and still feeling like I was in labor I tried to concentrate to get up and get the phone to call 911...and while doing that...it all just stopped faster than the speed of light I swear. I just got up walked out of the room and was fine after that like nothing had ever happened. It totally freaks me out. I hate it.

First a question. Is there a specific way to perform an exam when looking for any type of prolapse? Because I can tell you right now...the one I just had was hideous! omg! I am still in pain. It feels like a huge question mark of pain inside me that starts from the pubic bone, up the left side into my left collar bone and shoulder, across my chest to the right side of my ribs...I feel like I'm going to puke. I don't get this. I don't understand any of it.

The nurse just shoved that speculum up there, no nicey, nicey nothing! She hit the end and just kept going as I about jumped off the table. She says...oh, I'm almost done. Then she says, nope it all looks good. She was in there for about 30 seconds. Honestly...can you tell in 30 seconds? She did do a manual exam...as she is pushing on my gut to fine the uterus I about puked. Yep, that hurts Nurse Ratchet! And then you know what she says....Ok, you are good! Huh?

I questioned her asking how do you diagnose that way?...you didn't do anything. How do you see when you don't look? Then she says, if you think you have a problem with you bowels maybe there is an appointment time where you can come in with a full bowel......um, seriously?

Eventually, she did schedule an ultrasound for what I hear her call a "bulky uterus". I still have to look that up to see what she is talking about...And also a colonoscopy. Not sure why actually. Last time I had one done it was horrible. Stick anything in any part of my intestinal tract, including my esophagus and the whole thing from mouth to butt will be spasming for days afterwards...so I am so not looking forward to this, as I cannot take pain meds.

I feel like I'm getting beat up and I'm just standing there taking it...I don't know what to do. I don't know what not to do. Going back to bed sounds great. I have a Tai Chi class in a couple hours and not sure I even feel good enough to go now. Sadness.

If you type in self exam on the ww home page it comes up with a PDF sheet. Its the pages from the Saving the Whole Women book.

You can also just bend over, relaxed belly (as much as you can) and then pop your finger in your vagina.

I can feel the bottom of my cervix - like a ball with a dimple in. I can feel rectocele bulge but mine comes out a bit and I can feel cyctocele like a grape - just inside. I can feel these when standing but less so in WW posture.

Cystocele on my front, retocele at back. My uterus sits inside on top of them as they as are the pessary for it. I call it my tunnel and it is loose inside now as I don't have the narrow tight walls of youth or pre prolapse. I used to be fearful doing this but now I am getting to know my prolapse it's ok and I pop honey up inside regularly for health so that is a loving thing not a fearful self exam. There are lots of posts about that one.

We are pretty graphic on this site and talk about this stuff as it's better to get to know and work with your prolapse. You can do all this standing up and bending over while standing. You won't hurt anything just don't sit on the floor, cave your tummy in and sit in front of the mirror examining it as I did when my rectocele first came down.

By the way this work is good for all of us so if you can't feel anything then yay to you - do this work anyway and you won't look back.

Remember they did your exam lying down - but you live standing and sitting where there is pressure on your organs so you want WW posture to use this pressure (by way of breathing) to help your organs move forward into your lower belly rather than pushing them back into the vagina.

It sounds like you really know your body and won't let the medical profession tell you, you don't know what you feel.

Runz, I'm sorry it was so awful. When we need docs, we need them, but I honestly don't have a fondness or trust because of appointments like yours. More often than not, I feel blown off or treated like a shameful child. I hope you feel better quickly.

Many women have reported negative experiences at the doctor's office when they go in search of a definitive prolapse diagnosis. I myself have never had a diagnosis, and have no desire to go through what you just did, or to discuss prolapse with a doctor anyway. Most will only suggest surgery or PT or experimenting with pessaries or just doing nothing at all. Not one of these suggestions is a good one.

The thing about the postural work is that it is good for every woman, whether or not you are experiencing prolapse symptoms yet. And I would not blindly accept every invasive procedure they are suggesting to you. Why the colonscopy? You are only 50 and this will be your second one? - Surviving

Yes, a second colonoscopy. I had one done about 6 years ago. I was having problems with my Gall Bladder. Apparently it was infected. But it took me 3 years to get anyone to take me seriously. When i was referred to a surgeon the only reason he even took my case was because all my pain was on the left side. He found it interesting. lol. His wife had been the same way.

When he got in there the gall bladder was so badly infected that it had infected the section of the liver that the Gall Bladder sits against. But before I got to the surgeons I was sent for a colonoscopy."Just to be sure"...

I have had a bad pap test before...biopsy...cancer cells. Then the wait and see and come back in 3 months. I did, had another test and everything was supposedly fine. I've had a esophagus scope as well. Biopsy there too, cancer cells. I have not been back to have another one. It's been over a year.

This nurse that I saw yesterday is suggesting ( I looked it up) that I have fibroids. Which is what she is referring to when she said 'bulky uterus'. The previous biopsy results are what is sorta stressing me out. So maybe that is why I feel the need for a diagnosis. Also, because of the problems I have and the fact that not once have I gone to a doctor that could give me a answer...for anything. When you are diagnosed with Fibromyalgia no one will listen to you seriously anymore. Everything is blamed on that.

That term practicing medicine is so dang obvious now. I'm just the guinea pig. Squeeeeek squeeeeek. And I paid to be one. Ack!. Luckily, if this is a prolapse, from what I read here and other places...I'm not going to die from it - at least that is one thing going for me me, right? lol

Thank you for that information. It does help to hear others stories. I appreciate it. I'll have to check again. I also find the page on self-exam. I have felt up there...and I knew what I felt at the time was not right...which is what let me to googling lol and the horrible appointment yesterday. I even asked the nurse if she knew how to do an exam for this. She said something I should have taken notice of at the time. She said: You mean an annual exam? I told her I was not coming in for an annual which is why I passed on the breast exam in office and mammogram. And that, right there, confused the heck out of her. I should have known then.

I found new pages on here that I had not seen before...I had looked, I just couldn't find it. So there will be much reading today. lol

Oh that experience sounds horrible. They are just useless in the medical field with prolapse aye.

Actually I would say the medical field is useless...period. I'm going back to herbs. The end. (unless maybe you have a broken something...arm, leg...

I had another exam yesterday with a different doctor. He did the exam laying down again, pffft. I don't understand this. He took the time to talk to me, let me ask all the questions I wanted to, which I really appreciated. He told me that even though he did detect the prolapse that on a scale of severity 1 to 10. Ten being the worst, mine was at about a 5...with the rectocele being the worse. I thought to myself; if this is a 5, I don't want to see any worse. lol

Another wonderful thing is that after the first horrid exam, and the pain from that, by the next day I had no bladder leakage or that perpetual orgasmic feeling. It is now gone. What is up with that? I mean, yay! But how does that just disappear! Would be nice to know in case it happens again in the future. lol

As for the bulky uterus diagnosis...I have an ultrasound scheduled for the 20th. And this doctor yesterday told me that they will be able to look at the bladder at the same time and see if there is anything going on there. I was going to cancel because I was so frustrated with the first exam I never wanted to go back. Anyway, I am going to leave that scheduled. I guess there is a need to rule out tumors. Sigh. O well...

Hi runzwifscissors,

So very glad that you found the WW community :-) The support that you'll find here on your prolapse journey is invaluable...I wish every woman were as lucky as we who have found WW!

Wanted to share that over 6 or 7 years ago I experienced exactly what you described, that perpetual orgasmic feeling. I found it quite a bit unnerving and unpleasant to say the least. I'm trying to remember back exactly what was going on for me. I'm remembering that I was on an antibiotic (Cipro) for a UTI and that I had the feeling AFTER I started taking the med and it took days after I was off the med for the feeling to go away. It was definitely an "out there" experience!

Snapcracklepop

hahaha I love that name...I'm assuming it's the sound of waking up in the morning? Yes? haha At least for me it is.

I am glad as well...even the bits that I have read so far have helped me. I was on a fast train to crazy land before I realized that I was not going to die from this. lol. AND that I would not have to have surgery...I freak myself out easily over this I guess.

It's interesting you said you were on a med...I have been off all meds for about a year and a BP spike sent me back to the doctor...I tried two new meds and a med I had been on before. All gave me ridiculous side effects. So I quit them...and not too long after that all started...I began realizing things were awry down stairs. Hmm, wonder if that could have anything to do with it. I had some weird thing with my liver and I don't metabolize meds correctly... Hmmm. Thanks for sharing Snap.

Dear runzwifscissors,
A few years ago, I had light periods close together & was investigated for a bulky uterus.

It turned out to be a small fibroid which never gave me any trouble except for periods every 2 1/2 to 3 weeks for a while. The uterus lining was a bit thicker.

Ruling out anything that is actually nasty is helpful, however fibroids shrink over time, and are usually benign.

I would have not had a D&C knowing what the possible side effects are and they couldn't tell me anything extra that I knew from the ultrasound.

All the best,
Aussie Soul Sister

Thank you for that. I'm hoping that it is something inconsequential. I am 50 and have not had a period in over 5 years. So I don't have any symptoms like that. Although, it's curious, I have noticed that even though my doctors have been telling me that going into menopause around 45 is not typical, it is still considered 'normal'. Although it started around 33. From what I have read here...there are women who are older than me that still menstruate. Kinda makes me go "Hmmmmm"...
And, like you said, I would choose not to have them in there creating chaos (the doctors I mean) in my body. So, I will just take the diagnosis and move on...ruling out cancer. :)

Ahh...if indeed it were only confined to the morning ;-) It's not everyday that I'm cracking and popping so much, but some days...yikes! I think it might be hormonal because I'm perimenopausal.