Hormones

The best option for your bladder prolapse is one that your doc didn't mention....the WW postural work. If I were you, I'd drink red clover tea, use honey for vaginal health/comfort, and get into the Whole Woman work. Hormone therapy masks the symptoms of prolapse by thickening the vaginal walls. Only you can decide if that's worth the risk of taking them. Christine has some interesting things to say about all these issues (including sleep) in her Vulvo-vaginal Health DVD. - Surviving

My doctor told me today that the use of organic honey for vaginal tissue health was too risky because of chance of infection related to the sugars. She prescribed an oestrogen cream instead. She also said there is no way that you should remove pessary before 2/3 months for cleaning etc, certainly not every day or you risk further rubbing of vaginal tissue. Help!! What does everyone think?

Hi heather,
I think your doctor needs to have a talk with Christine, because she and so many other of the fine ladies of this forum have benefited trmendously from the use of honey. Estrogen cream just sucks. Not only does it increase the risk of cancer, but can also raise your tryglicerides. It even says that on the packaging! That happened to my mom, and now she only uses the honey.
And, You should really read the information Christine has on pessaries. She really describes very well the risk, types etc. pretty much everything you need to know about them. We have had many of our ladies come back with problems with pessaries.
Personally, I would try the honey and start really working on whole woman posture. That will always be your best bet!
Hope that helps. Best wishes!

Thank you for your encouragement Aging gracefully. I hope not to use the oestrogen cream. I am starting to work on the WW posture and yes, I have read Christine's chapter on pessaries. I wish I didn't have such trouble getting it in and out!! Partly a bit nervous I suspect! I tried talking to my doctor about whole woman posture concepts and she showed no interest AT ALL. Not uncommon, I guess?

Not uncommon at all, heather. And, I wouldn't be waiting for a positive nod from the doctors about prolapse management, they are still in the dark ages on this subject. I hope you can get to a place where you won't have to rely on the pessaries, many of our ladies have actually ditched them in favor of the posture work.
It does take time, but with a little patience, prolapse can be managed very well with this work. I am certainly living proof of that!
Best wishes to you!

Thanks so much Aging gracefully. Can't see why we can't do the posture work with pessary in place, remove it down the track and see what happens. That is my hope anyway.

Heather, if you are afraid of the bulge, thinking that things are falling out, then you needn't be. Otherwise I don't see the point in wearing one. You can, if that's your choice, but it doesn't exactly put you on the fast track towards gaining a good grasp of the WW posture. - Surviving

Take care with this class - I also do it but I keep the weights very low, modify the postures according to Christine's principles and completely avoid planks and crunches. There is a big temptation in a BP class to check out and compete with what weights everyone else is using! Prioritise technique, posture and breathing, and what you can feel going on. I guess I'm thinking about very different things from the other class members during a class.

For sure. I took a BodyFlow class once (combo yoga, tai chi and pilates) and parts of it were highly prolapse-unfriendly! - Surviving

I get what you say Surviving60. I agreed to try the pessary after finding a bit of blood on toilet paper after exercise, in my case, 18 holes of golf. I assumed it came from me pushing at the prolapse all the time to try to get it back. Hardly ever see blood now but loathe thought of permanent pessary. Have started the WW exercises with pessary still in place. Realise I will have to remove it at some stage to have any hope of assessing how I am going. Many thanks. Working hard not to get too depressed by the whole thing and am determined to not give in to it!! I am 72 by the way and fairly fit.

You make a good point here, Tanglefoot, but I need to remind everyone that we aren't just talking about exercise. We're talking about your posture all day long. The way you sit, stand, move, lift, carry, drive, exercise, and relax. Our symptoms are giving us information about their positions all day long. WW posture, firebreathing, good habits, all day long, are more important than what we do during a short period of exercise. Of course, that has to be in posture too. - Surviving

PS: I'd like to refer everyone back to Christine's newsletter that you received in your email July 1st. You all got it. It reminds everyone that WW is not first and foremost an exercise program. It is a lot more than that, and this is something that we on the forum keep repeating over and over and over and over and over and over and over...................................

And for anyone who just joined and didn't get it, Chickaboom re-posted it:

http://www.wholewoman.com/forum/node/6812

Tanglefoot,
The problem with pessaries and support garments is that they are only quick fix temporary items, while whole woman posture is forever. I would find it a shame if woman coming here would only be looking into these quick fix items, because you keep bringing them up.
Have them really dedicate themselves to the whole woman work first, and then if after time, things are still really all that uncomfortable, they can look into additional supportive devices.
I mean, you yourself haven't really delved into the whole woman work completely from what you have told us. You don't know for sure how much more the posture work and exercises could really help you, possibly even eliminating the need for any additional support.
Please don't suggest one temporary fix for another until you have given the whole woman work a chance all by itself.

No Tanglefoot, I wouldn't dream of having the mesh procedure! In fact, in my country, Australia, I believe it has been withdrawn pending class action!! Scary stuff!

You have not yet committed to the Whole Woman work, and yet you are on the forum every day advising members what to do. I guarantee your posts will be much more meaningful once you have actually begun the work. You do not need an entire bundle. I acquired my collection one item at a time. Get your own copy of the First Aid for Prolapse DVD and please, get started. Stop waiting for your friend to loan you her copy. At this point I don't believe that is going to happen. Next time WW has a sale, if you do not purchase the DVD, you will have some explaining to do! - Surviving

Tanglefoot. There is only one WW posture and it is well-described in the video clips. There is no such thing as a "favorite" WW posture. PLEASE I beg you, learn about Whole Woman if you are going to keep posting. - Surviving

There is the elders DVD if the others seem too difficult. Also, the book shows some moves that you can pick and choose from. All these positions require you to be in whole woman posture. Posture is what you should be working on the most with this work.

Tanglefoot, you are confusing exercises with the WW posture itself. Study the work before you advise other women on how to do it. Or, you will eventually be blocked from posting. - Surviving

Thanks Tanglefoot I appreciate your responses. We are all just trying to do our best with what we have! I have only just started the WW stuff, and am applying posture advice together with what exercises I can manage. My knees are not what they once were!! Sitting on them bent under is beyond me for example, but I have sent for the elders stuff last week which might help. I do what I can but nowhere as efficiently as Christine and her girls on the DVD! Take care. Heather P.S. I don't actually have a favourite position.

I discussed the subject of testosterone with my significant other. He takes DAA and we wanted to know the impact on the female body. It doesn't help. I did however find DHEA and DIM-plus. I take these in tandem with zinc, magnesium, B-6 and Vitamin C along with consumption of leafy green vegetables. I wonder why there is all the hub-bub about supplementing with Estrogen/Progesterone. These are carcinogens for many women and especially for those with DES exposure. Month two now with the above regimen. I like the results...very happy! I thew out the estrogen cream since, because to me, its just cancer in a tube.

Supplemental DHEA goes through the liver and is turned into many different metabolites, some of which act with as much affinity for the estrogen receptors (alpha and beta) as estradiol itself.

There is no scientist, doctor, or hormone expert who can tell you what is actually happening when you ingest DHEA, as this study from 2013 clearly points out.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529809/

Our endocrine system does not stop at the boundary of our skin, but extends out into nature. A diet rich in phytoestrogens and plant sterols is what is needed to maintain health and energy levels. These cause normal gene transcription - in the case of ER beta, in skin, bone, brain, and vulva. As the article suggests, who knows what havoc excess DHEA metabolites might cause. Some obviously are "persistent", meaning they keep cells alive. Cells must die a natural death, or become subject to mutation.

Trust nature, not the laboratory where substances are produced and marketed without much thought for the incomprehensible complexity of the whole. DHEA is a scheduled drug in both Canada and Australia, and is prohibited here in athletic competitions.

Hi meems - that is an awful lot of time to be spending in a support garment, so all I can suggest for comfort is that you not wear it for such long stretches. I have cystocele and rectocele but I am not post-hyst and I have never worn one of these. But we have other members who do.

WW posture is very important after hysterectomy, though we can't predict your results. You do need this posture correction as much as any woman does, but as far as your prolapse is concerned, you are without the heavy-lifter of the uterus which, when held forward, helps pull the other organs forward as well. Stay with the posture; it is very important for your hips and spine, and it is your best hope for prolapse support. Vault prolapse is a danger after hyst, and most of the time I believe that sutures are used to anchor the top of the vagina in place. You do not want to dislodge these, so go easy on the workouts, and be sure to do lots of WW posture walking with nice cushiony shoes and socks. - Surviving

Just want to share with all you helpful women that the pessary is no longer part of my prolapse management! I have been without it now for about 6 weeks and am greatly relieved to be able to resume my active life style. I find I can manage with WW posture and things like fire breathing which are really helpful. I wish you all the best and thank you for your help Christine and others.

Thanks heather for the update! This is so great to hear. How liberating this must be for you - keep up the great work and keep on trusting your body and trusting in the posture and all the knowledge you have gained here. - Surviving

Is the information on pessaries from Christine only in her books etc. or is there a place here on this site that would inform me? I have a Pessary and am having a problem with it. I stopped using the Estrase my Dr prescribed due to the high cost of it and the cancer warnings on the label. I began to use the honey and I like it. If I had an infection in the vagina area would the honey help to get rid of it?

Can honey cause a bladder infection if it gets into the urinary opening when I put it into the vaginal area everyday or does it basically have natural antibiotic and antibacterial effects?

Urey,
If you type in honey or yeast infections in the search box you will find many very helpful threads on these subjects. You can also find some information about pessaries in the resources on the tool bar.

We would like newbies to really have a look around on this site, besides the forum itself. There is lots of great information to be found. But, it does not replace Christine's work which is much more in depth and thorough.

Can you tell us a little about yourself and what prolapse symptoms you are having?

Thank you for getting back with me. I have Christine's books and DVDs coming in the mail! I have looked at all the other things on this site and I just luv it! I am so happy I found it! It has restored my faith in myself and my body! I am 62 years old and have had 7 children with the first child being a miscarriage. This past Christmas season I noticed a bulge from my vagina and went to the Dr. She inserted a Pessary for me. I have 3rd degree prolapse in the uterus, bladder and rectum! I was having a lot of pain also. Been doing pretty good with the Pessary until last week! It almost feel like I have a yeast infection or bladder infection! That is why I asked about the honey! I have been using it as You all suggested! Hopefully things will get better as I receive the wholewoman products. That way I can get my posture right! I had been walking an hour daily prior to this problem coming up, I had lost 40 lbs and was doing great. I hope to get back to that after I learn the whole woman's lifestyle better. Thank you again for taking the time to get back with me. I really appreciate it!

Good to hear, Urey!
That is the problem with pessaries in general, increased risk of infections and soreness, as well as the fact that they keep the vagina held open when it needs to be as close to an airless flat tube as we can get.
Honey does not cause infections, and it will only further help create a good environment for the opening of your urethra as well as your anus.
Once you already have an infection though, you have to find what works best for you to get rid of it. There have been so many suggestions here, from cider vinegar and honey alternately, to yogurt, probiotics, OTC monostat, etc. for yeast infections.
Don't let a bladder infection go too long though. If the home remedies don't work, you may have to get a prescription to clear it up.
Do read around some more on the forum, so many ideas here.

Your Doctor is indoctrinated with her medical school training. HONEY has a ton of antimicrobial properties! Just read on the internet, the history and benefits of honey. The prior responder has the best answer for you. All the best!

Hello! I am new to the forum but not to the website, theories, educational material etc. I am currently thinking I need to come off the hormonal replacement therapy that I have been on for four years. Initially, I was placed on HRT for insomnia, and along with that my BP was elevated. Does anyone have any experience with tapering off HRT, or have any suggestions, additional comments on HRT? I've been diagnosed with osteoporosis and they say HRT
will help. I realize there are alternatives to HRT and Fosomax which I refuse to take. Any comments will be appreciative. Thank you!

Hi PTV - You can research this and talk to your doctor.....depending on what you are taking and how much, you might just start with a lower dosage and see how you do. The important thing is to get started.

For your overall health, not to mention your bones, I'd recommend getting your Vitamin D level checked. Sunshine is the best source, but most post-meno women are deficient and the RDA is woefully inadequate. If your insurance doesn't cover testing, you can buy kits from the Vitamin D Council website where they also give good recommendations for how much to supplement. - Surviving

Thank you, Surviving. I agree with you and that is my direction this week. However, as of the last two nights my sleep has already been decreased significantly without any reduction in hormones. Maybe this is a side effect from not increasing the dose, or I am experiencing some of the side effects that one encounters as you age, or both, not sure. I noticed my Vit. D level dropped when I switched from Mountain Valley Spring water to a water source that used reverse osmosis and was basically distilled water, I have switched back. Can you advise me of an adequate RDA of Vitamin D and a good source?--PTV

There is quite a lot of good information put out there in the last few years, so I will tell you what I have distilled from the last couple of years since autoimmunity became a factor at our house. My husband and I take 5,000 i.u. daily and our autoimmune kid takes 10,000. This is based on research and the results of multiple tests we've given ourselves at intervals. None of us can spend much time outdoors and this is especially a factor in winter. We just take the gel caps you can buy at any store for practically nothing. - Surviving

Thank you for your comments, Surviving, they were very helpful. I will check out the Vit.D Council website.
PTV

Hello!
I'm am weaning myself off HRT, as I attempt to do this my BP and HR go up in to the evening and begin to suffer more with insomnia. I was reading about phytoestrogens, trying to educate myself on ways to transition off HRT. Of course, many are suggesting I switch to OTC creams to supplement. I am fairly sure most on this forum are opposed to them as well. I've started to drink the red clover tea and that seems to help a little, I'm hoping. I've read that the phytoestrogens can be carcinogenic and we should use the non-estrogenic herbs etc...?? Can anyone direct in ways I can improve my diet with fermented food, herbs, oils etc. I eat a lot of the sauerkraut, homemade yogurt...but it stops there due to lack of instruction. Do any of your videos speak with a concentration on diet, HRT discontinutation etc....?

Here is a good start:

https://whole-woman.thinkific.com/courses/whole-woman-lecture-series

this forum and the lovely Christine Ann Kent's videos has saved my life and really encouraged me

I am so glad to hear you are seeing results! Please let us know if we can answer any questions as we really want to help women understand and be successful with this work to the very best of our ability.

Where I live the opinion is the HRT cream (hormone estrogen) will help uterine prolapse and even fix it - I think the opinion is it is like diabetes - does anyone have any opinions on this fact - I would be grateful
Thanks

The only reason I can think of that doctors would prescribe HRT for uterine prolapse, would be to address dryness and make the tissues more comfortable. It certainly won't do anything for the prolapse. It is often prescribed for cystocele/rectocele to help mask the symptoms by thickening the tissues of the vaginal wall. This is a dangerous practice that does nothing to address the causes of prolapse or the ways that it can be stabilized/reversed.

Happy, you seem a little stuck on the whole hormone issue. Time to move on and start working on your prolapse for real. We are here to provide support for the Whole Woman work and hope you will join us. - Surviving

Thanks Surviving60 I will take heed to your advice

Why is everybody against bioidentical hormones? Do not take premarin, obviously, but bioidenticals are my first line of defense. This problem is literally what is giving me permission to hire my old ND who is #1 at the Tahoma clinic. I know that having wretched hormones lifelong is what is contributing to all of this.

I believe it is not in women's best interests to suggest that so-called bioidentical hormones are any safer than any other kind. It's easy enough to find articles explaining this....here's one:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/menopause/expert-answers/...

I would NEVER trust the FDA or mayo clinic on the issue of bioidenticals, sorry! They are way different than synthetic and there are tons of success stories to prove it. Look at Dr Jonathan Wright's work. Suzanne Sommers has also shared a wealth of info. I require hormones, and cannot wait to use then again. Especially in strengthening my body.

Personally, I know what I am medically low in, lifelong. My pituitary is compromised. I intend to get estradiol, progesterone and testosterone. Help build muscle, have stronger connective tissues. They have an an anti-aging effect on the body. I am stoked to give this gift to myself. Bioidenticals improve quality of life on many levels.

Hormones are hormones, whether made from horse urine, or in a lab. If the risks are worth it to you, because of your various health conditions, then that's your choice. - Surviving