Thoughts on Katy Bowman & Nutritious Movement



I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on what Katy Bowman, Owner of Nutritious Movement teaches in regards to proper alignment when standing, sitting, walking etc. Most of it seems to be the same as WW (hips back, letting stomach relax, crown of head up and back, etc) but I am really fuzzy on what we should be doing with our rib cage! Katy is a big believer in keeping the ribs down and not thursting them. Is that what WW teaches too or not? When WW teaches chest up and shoulders down, does that mean the ribs should be up? Cause for me, that's kind of what happens. I am really confused on this aspect of the WW posture.

I contacted both Nutritious Movement and WW about each other a while ago, and the response has been that both consider the other one to have a slightly different approach/understanding.... but I am not sure what those differences are! Is it possible to know? Does anyone know? I really like educating myself from both parties, but it does make me a little uneasy on what to trust, if one thinks the other is off. I've kinda ignored it and have just tried to keep learning from both, but in the back of my mind I'm always questioning it still!

I have posed this same question to Katy again, and I am awaiting a response.

If there's big disagreements maybe both organizations or founders could have a podcast debate so us listeners could hear both sides and discern?

- a Fan of both


Here's some reading to keep you busy for awhile:

PS: If you use the search box that is on the home page of the site, you will find several of Christine's blog articles as well. This is a tired old topic that some of us don't feel like rehashing, but you might find whatever it is you're looking for, in those posts and articles. As stated on the welcome page, this forum isn't here to defend or debate Christine's work.....I think we are long past that point.

Thanks Surviving. Siince it seems like you've been doing WW for a long time and are a strong advocate of it, could you please kindly describe to me what we should be doing with our ribs specifically in WW posture? Should we thrust to lift the chest up or try and keep the ribs down throughout the day? Regardless of Katy, these are some of my questions I have, and so far have not been able to find this answer in the previous posts.

I don't think about my ribs. I relax my belly, lift my chest, and keep my shoulders down. My ribs go along for the ride. We all have different ways of thinking and doing things, so maybe you'll get a better ribs answer from someone else. For me personally, the sticking point (which I discovered 2 years ago at the conference, after doing this work for 4 years prior) was that I was still rounding my shoulders forward, in an attempt not to push them back. So now, I tell myself to keep my chest opened up. - Surviving

Our original posture is evidenced in our development as human beings. Look at our 3-year-old WW model (click here). Every time she takes an in-breath her respiratory diaphragm is coming down to her last set of ribs. Therefore, her alignment must be such that her last set of ribs forms the outer most abdominal expansion point caused by the downward trajectory of her diaphragm. The diaphragm grabs onto the lumbar spine (through long, extremely strong ligaments called ‘crura’) and pulls it forward with every inspiration *As Long As The Abdominal Wall Is Not Pulled In*. Our posture must allow for this natural movement in order to prevent prolapse, incontinence, and chronic hip disease!

Any intentional ‘doing’, such as “anchoring the ribs” or “walking the hips back” is simply a mental construct that has no place in the reality of our natural alignment. We must use language such as “lift your chest” and “relax your belly” to allow the body to re-learn natural posture. After a certain time, WW posture becomes effortless and extremely healing.

Importantly, every bit of “anchoring the ribs” or “walking the hips back” removes you *the very same degree* from natural alignment. “Rib thrusting” is simply a non-issue in natural posture. In the unnatural and destructive postures being widely promoted (take a look at the bodybuilders toward the end of this article:, “rib thrusting” becomes apparent - not that the chest should not be lifted, but that the abdominal wall should not be pulled in!

Whole Woman posture is original human posture.

I walk my dog twice a day and try to get into the walking posture. Relaxing my belly is the hardest part for me, from 40 or so years of holding it in. Relaxed I look about 4 months pregnant but the rest of me is rather slim, so I guess I feel embarrassed about it. Hubby says if it works do it. I can still feel my prolapse but try to do fire breathing and jiggling before I go out. Even when I am sitting, I am an artist, I have to remember to relax my belly, shoulders down, I have raised my board higher so not to bring shoulders around and they are down. I will get there.

Hi Roxy,
I think we have all had that feeling that relaxing belly makes it look like it sticks out, but if you keep pulling up strongly in the chest, that appearance goes away, replaced by a strong natural look that whole woman posture gives us.
And, hubby is right. It's very simple logic when it come to whole woman!

Cheers for that Aging gracefully.

Thanks friends!

Surviving, I have a similar problem... I feel like right now, my shoulders "naturally" round forward at all times. Knowing from one of Christine's resources to "keep the shoulders down", has helped, as before I felt like I was kind of overexagerrating with lifting the chest up/shoulders back.

Christine, I am a little confused by something you said. Isn't working on the different pieces of WW posture sort of intentionally 'doing' something until it becomes natural? I understand the abs should not be pulled in, and yes those body builders are scary unnatural! I guess it just feels kinda unnatural right now to constantly be lifting my chest up too. It feels like I'm constantly working or contracting the middle back muscles or something. But is that just because I haven't been doing it for a real long time yet and my body is still "learning" it? Should the goal be to have a lifted chest 24/7 while upright? And eventually not have to consiously "do" or think about it?

I notice there is a change in the rib placement when I let them naturally drop verses lifting the chest, and if I understand you correctly, that doesn't matter? Where as, if I undestand Katy correctly, she would say it definitely does matter. Eek! Don't mean to bring her in to the discussion again... I'm just really confused by this little piece!

One other question that kinda goes with this, can you untuck your pelvis too much? or overexagerrate your lumber curve? I could make my body look similar to the 3 yr old model (where like you said last set of ribs forms the outer most abdominal expansion point) with my belly relaxed, if I REALLY stick out my butt and put my hips back. But this also, feels unnatural to me right now.... And again, I am not sure if that is because I haven't been doing it for long enough, or because my body is trying to tell me I am overdoing it?

Ok one last thought, sorry there is a lot jammed in to this post! So when I do the above (Really untuck my pelvis, stick out my butt and exagerate my lumber curve) I felt my rectocele move within a few minutes and then saw it bulge out of the vagina more. Which makes sense if I am thinking about this correctly gravity wise? Because while that position would move or pin the bladder and uterus towards the belly more and away from the vagina opening, it would also move the rectocele forward, although that's not the direction I want that one to go! Which leads me to ask... are there slightly different postures (or even tweeks to the WW posture) to aid the different prolapses?

Christine describes a few basic posture elements, which, if followed, are all you need. You are making this way too complicated. You don't have to stuck out your butt; in fact, you shouldn't. Never once in the months I was learning posture did I think about where my ribs were, what my back muscles were doing, where my hips were, whether or not my pelvis was "untucked" goodness, I would still be struggling today if all this was necessary. If the belly is relaxed and the chest is lifted, everything pretty much falls into place. Once you get there, you can make further refinements, such as I had to do when I discovered my shoulder issue.

The posture does take time and much mindfulness before it becomes automatic. But in the process, there really aren't that many different things that you need to focus on. Pull out your book or dvd and review those elements; throw out the rest because it's only hindering your progress. And no, there are not different postures for different prolapses. - Surviving

Always Hopeful,
"Lifted chest" does not mean, stick your boobs out. If you are doing this of course your ribs are going to go forward and your back will hurt. I think if you line up 10 women and tell them to lift their chest, all will do something different, some will stick their boobs out, some will arch there back, and some, maybe will "lift" by pulling up through the back of their neck.
Maybe focus on a different cue....keep your back upper back "flat and broad" and "open" your chest.
It took me a while to learn that a lifted chest is not a sticking out chest.
By your question, it sounds like you are looking for an alignment marker for your ribs in relation to the rest of your body.....maybe Christine or someone else can come up with a more helpful "cue" for you.

Would suggest re-reading Christine's post above. When did positioning our ribs become a part of this work? Making something basic sound really hard. A Skype consult may be the answer here. - Surviving

I think you will be doomed to frustration and confusion if you continue to try and reconcile the Whole Woman work and Katy Bowman posture and combine it into a single discipline. And it ain't gonna happen on this forum - the history of posts on the subject have said all there is to say. You may need to go your own way with this. I started this work at age 60 after many decades of totally wrong posture. The principles were simply and basic; they took awhile to internalize, but that did happen eventually. This works. I am incredibly grateful and glad I didn't overwhelm myself by trying to poke holes in Christine's work as I went along. I wish you the best in your efforts and hope that you find something that resonates with you. - Surviving

In response to this issue I'm creating an all new posture video. It's something we've needed for a long time and will be very inexpensive.

Katy is a perfect example of the culturally contrived posture responsible for a great many modern ills. Ironic, but true.

I thought this forum was for people who are doing WW, but still have questions about stuff or need further clarification then what we can find (or sometimes remember) in the resources? I am not trying to "poke holes" in Christines work. I am just trying to understand it better. And I am trying to understand it better in light of this other specific "research". All I have is my own experience and mind frame to be coming from... I didnt start WW as a blank robot. I was listening to Katy a year before my prolapse ever happened, and mostly all i implementedform her was trying to walk more, so I am sorry that i can't just throw out some of her cues if i dont understand why.

I feel very attacked on here sometimes which is not helping or creating the support i believe this forum was made for. Like so many untrue assumptions about me are made (and stated). Why? how is this helping?

Surviving, you said so yourself in a post previous that after 4 years of doing the WW work, you had sort of a revelation "sticking point", that helped you. Why can't I be seeking and trying to understand my own questions and my own personal weaknesses in the WW program now, instead of maybe waiting 4 years from now for them to be possibly answered or corrected then?

Sea turtle, I appreciate your ideas for maybe better cues. Because we are all different, and therefore the way we might describe/talk about the body is different, probably diffferent cues (even if they mean the same) are gonna resonate with different people like your "lift the chest" example. And like I mentioned earlier, hearing the cue "shoulders down" from WW really made a difference for me with the whole chest lifting cue. Even though still curious on the ribs.

Yes, perhaps a Skype call would be best, although im really trying to save money for the conference. We'll see! Thought other people might be able to benefit from this question/answer too. :)

Hi Always,

I apologize for any hurt feelings. We defend this work because we know its value and are astonished that other highly visible teachers of posture have it so wrong.

Our natural alignment is every bit as important as the food we eat and the thoughts we think, and the common misalignment women are prone to is the root cause of prolapse, incontinence, and chronic hip pain.

And the "ribs issue" is at the heart of it all! I've tried my best to explain it here, but clearly it needs greater understanding.

Thanks for being here with us and especially for helping to bring this issue to light once again. I actually hadn't seen Katy's new website and am just astonished, really. More to come...


But that's just it. We shouldn't have to defend the Whole Woman work. That's why surviving put the link up there in the first place, so you could see that katy has been discussed before, many times. People can study whatever they like, and what rings true to them is what they should follow, but to expect us to go and study those other works, try to compare it to whole woman, and then give a report about it is not what the forum is about.
Those of us who have found the truth in Christine's work don't feel the need to constantly compare it to other's work.
And, the only reason these other concepts are constantly brought to this forum is because those other sites don't have a forum like this one does. This forum was created to talk about the whole woman work, not get confused and watered down with the likes of Katy Bowman.

I can understand that it would be a very hard message for Katy Bowmanites to hear......that this contrived posture actually contributes to prolapse, whereas only a return to natural human posture can restore pelvic organ support. I feel so fortunate to have bypassed all of that, and it's difficult watching others who cannot separate from it, struggling to make sense of something that is so simple. I think it's interesting that Always Hopeful discovered prolapse after a year of doing Katy's work - not much of an endorsement. I tried to discourage this debate from the start, because I knew we didn't have anything good to say about KB's theories of alignment. Now I suppose I'm almost glad the topic re-emerged, so we can reinforce the message. - Surviving

Sorry for some reason I am just seeing this comment now. A new posture video sounds great!

For someone JUST coming into this, I was taken aback at such a negative reponse to someone asking questions.

And then I thought, "Who would react so poorly to their beliefs being questioned? A cult." So I googled Christine Northrup more thoroughly only to discover that she is a complete quack. This article seemed to sum things up well:

Maybe I'll look up this Katy Bowman, who appears to have better credentials than Christine Northrup anyway. Although she appears to be married to a practitioner of "aryuvedic medicine" so. . . also probably quacky.

Disappointed to be so quickyl turned off of something that at first blush looked interesting, but on the other hand it's probably for the best. Enjoy your cult Ladies! I'm happy you seem to be experiencing benefit from it. A broken clock tells the right time twice a day, after all.

Just to clarify for other readers, the work from this site has been written by Christine Kent, not Christine Northrup.
MadeUpName, If you are going to start a witch hunt, at least get the names right.

Hi MadeUpName - if you have come to this site/forum because you have prolapse, you will only be short-changing yourself if you don't look into Christine Kent's body of work. That is really the bottom line. And it is also the purpose for this forum, in case you missed the Welcome page here:
This work is more than "interesting", it is life-changing. I hope you decide to delve further. - Surviving