pessaries

Hi tripoli60 and welcome to WW! I think your body is trying to tell you to get rid of that thing. Pessaries often do make prolapse worse, because they hold the vagina open. Some more than others, certainly the cube does. The object of WW posture is to maintain the vagina as a flattened, closed, airless space so the organs cannot bulge into it. A pessary can also really aggravate a rectocele, or contribute to the onset of one. Glad you have some good WW materials on the way - feel free to ask any questions here as you go along. We have a great community, active women of all ages who have been set on the right path with this work. - Surviving

I'm, 69 and have just been told I have a stage 3 prolapse, cystocele and rectocele. I was sold a pessary which felt great the first day I wore it, then pain and burning in vaginal area and rectal area. I kept trying to wear it with different lubricants to no avail. Went back to doc and was told I needed a bigger size since the pain was being caused by the too-small pessary slipping. Now I have the larger one, but having the same symptoms. Seems my bladder slips out around the pessary and causes pain. I've also tried different lubricants. Estrace is not something I can use vaginally!! Much burning and itching. Any ideas? I'm about 35 pounds overweight. I think losing weight might help with the prolapse.

Hi Dancin. With regard to pessaries in general, please read the post I wrote just above.

I see that you joined the forum many years ago, and also that you have had some surgeries including one with mesh. Can you elaborate just a little on your surgeries and on your Whole Woman work to date? It will help us figure out what might be the best course for you. - Surviving

I have not had any surgeries and no mesh. Just trying to deal with all this stuff for years. I have a chronic cough, very deep and harsh, from allergies and reflux. This has made my prolapse worse over the years. Lately, the only thing I've tried has been the pessary. I do have the book and exercise video that I ordered years ago but was thinking that maybe a stage 3 was too advanced for that to help me. What do you think?

Sorry for my error, the surgeries and mesh that you had were for hernia. I don't know anything about hernia surgery or what the ramifications might be; and doctors sometimes incorrectly refer to prolapse as "hernia" so I couldn't be sure.

If you have the book and DVD then you are ready to make a good start. The WW work is not merely an exercise program, though sometimes women focus overly on that piece of it. We are re-training our bodies to return to the natural spinal shape, which supports our organs. Get out your stuff, do some more reading around the site, and get back on this. It is definitely not too late. I don't know what (if any) precautions you might need to take with respect to those surgeries that you had. That might be a question for your doctor or reason for a consult with Christine....everything in our bodies is so connected. - Surviving

Good afternoon,
I am so nervous and frightened, I have a large rectocele and I do not want surgery. I saw a obgyn urologist and he is suggesting surgery including a hysterectomy. I told him I would like to try a pessary. He seemed very doubtful that it would work and only had latex ones in which I am allergic to. I thought pessarys work for all stages of prolapse? He said he would order non latex and would notify me when he receives them. I would like to think if he uses pessaries in his practice he would have more than latex ones. Do OBGYNs have more experience. Not sure if I chose he right doctors. Any suggestions?

Hi Twinkie - since you have found your way to the Whole Woman site, then hopefully by now you have done some reading, and realized that following your doctor's surgical recommendations could be the worst mistake of your life. But of course if you see a surgeon, he or she will recommend surgery, what else can we expect?

A rectocele does not respond well to a pessary. There are a multitude of different kinds, and most of them can actually aggravate prolapse because they hold the vagina open. The goal should really be, to get the organs out of that space.

Right now, watch this:

https://wholewoman.com/newpages/video/ww101.html

Then spend some time looking around the website, forum and blog.....after which you may have some questions that we'll be glad to answer. - Surviving

Hi dear twinkie,
I have rectocele as well and was told when I had a colonoscopy a few years ago, before finding Whole Woman that it was "significant" and to go see this surgeon...over the years it was never described that way before...were you told yours is "large" ? I ignored this advice... I am lucky in that I never wanted surgery which was the only option on offer, waited yrs and found WW.

Significance and size is relative to opinion when you can manage this condition with WW.
I believe mine would be more prolapsed now if I had not found WW.

I have found that in the four yrs I have been doing WW, rectocele has actually become to be a blessing in so many ways, believe it or not.

It is a kind of nature's pessary, preventing further prolapse of other organs like the cervix.
When I am not as diligent with my diet and WWposture it can warn me, otherwise it is unnoticeable.

Another huge miracle for me is that I do notice the holistic benefits of WW with my total health.

I also believe women need to be fully informed before deciding what to do with their bodies, and WW gives you another option that I would have loved to have had decades ago.

My very Best Wishes,

Aussie Soul Sister

What are some natural moisturizers for atrophic vaginitis?

What are some natural moisturizers for this problem? Thanks.

Hi Carvela,

Vaginal atrophy, sometimes with burning, itching, and skin breakdown, is an inevitability for all older women. Some women are in their early seventies and still having pain-free sexual intercourse, while others begin to suffer severe symptoms at the start of the menopausal transition. I think strong adrenal function may make the difference, but there is little research on the subject.

What the vagina/vulva needs is healthy microbial populations, which keep the area moist and comfortable. Honey is the only substance in nature that restores natural Lactobacillus species, which are the friendly bacteria we had all through our reproductive years. A little raw, local honey placed high in the vagina once or twice a day brings the tissues remarkably back to life. We say local because honey contains bits of pollen from your area, which helps the immune system. It needs to be real honey though - honey can be labeled "pure" and "natural" by law in the U.S. and actually be largely corn syrup.

Some women who aren't very symptomatic have good results with aloe. Others use coconut oil. But again, neither of these restore native vaginal microbiology.

Hope this helps. Of course, supplemental estradiol can jump-start the process, but it places estrogen-target tissues at risk, poisons waterways, and many women never blink an eye at placing their men at risk of serious exposure through sexual intercourse. I have often wondered if this is partly responsible for the prostate cancer epidemic.

Christine

Hi. I only came across this website today purely by chance, while trying to find a solution, or at least a way forward with my problem. I have a pelvic organ prolapse, which is exacerbated by urinary incontinence when using a ring pessary. I've had the condition for quite a few years now and have gone backwards and forwards with the ring pessary. More recently, I have found that the ring pessary makes the incontinence worse and when I don't have the pessary in there is no problem, but the 'bulging' is so uncomfortable. I have considered surgery, but my gut instinct, plus what I have read tells me that's not the way forward. Even though I am 62, I am very active. I try to run/power walk when I can, but it's getting increasingly uncomfortable; I sing in two or three choirs, I teach in school two days a week. I am on my feet a lot! I am going to order Christine's book and have a look at the videos. It's really comforting to read other people's messages. I am in the UK and was wondering if there is anyone out there also from the UK? I would love to find a yoga teacher to specifically help with this condition.
Maggi

Hi Mothership and welcome to WW. You are absolutely right to avoid surgery, as there is no surgical "cure" for prolapse, and the problems that can result are not worth the risk. Better to leave yourself open to reversing and stabilizing things naturally. Once you have returned to natural posture you will realize that the bulge is nothing to fear, and that you can manage it and do just about anything you want, as long as you know how to do things safely. Immerse yourself in this.....and have patience. I started this work at 60 and have been doing this for over 6 years now; and things just seem to get better for me all the time. I'm glad you decided to ditch the pessary; that might bring some temporary relief but just makes things worse in the long run. You are on the right path! Keep us posted. - Surviving

78 year old womam, post hysterectomy (nearly 20 years ago), relatively healthy aside from the cystocele, rectocele and vaginal atrophy and prolapse. Have been using a cube pessary for nearly a year, it is removed and cleaned monthly by Gyn, but I am wondering if the material used in a pessary could be making me feel ... 'sick'? My gyn thought I had a vaginal infection last month and I went without the pessary a week while I inserted a vaginal antibiotic gel every night, as well as estrogen creme every morning. But I just have not felt good all summer.Should I ditch the pessary?

Hello and welcome, Barb ;-)

It is possible that your doctor is using Trimo-san, which historically has been included with every pessary prescribed in the U.S., as the lubricant to insert your pessary each month. If so, please have a look at the article I wrote some years ago explaining the dangers of this common pesticide:

https://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=22

It is one of those inexplicable, jaw-dropping medical practices that defies reason. The silicone pessary, however, is biologically inert.

Have you been on the estrogen cream very long? Every bit you are using vaginally is having a systemic effect, which could cause any number of symptoms in an older woman. The best science coming from the microbiology literature states that any estradiol (the type of estrogen in almost all creams, pills and patches) in a post-menopausal woman should remain at biologically inactive levels to prevent disease in estrogen-target tissues.

We have an amazing WW story to tell about vaginal health, but it is far too extensive to relate here. However, it is such important information that I held a public lecture on the subject a few months ago, which we were able to record. I highly recommend this very affordable video, The Miraculous Self-Healing Vagina:

http://www.wholewomanstore.com/The-Miraculous-Self-Healing-Vagina-Video_...

Treating the vagina with antibiotics can certainly have a global effect on your health as well.

The pessary itself is a possible problem because it is holding your vagina open to intraabdominal pressure. In normal anatomy, the vagina is a closed, airless space. The back vaginal wall clamps down sharply against the front wall, protecting it from internal pressures literally blowing the organs into its space. When the vagina is being held open by a pessary, prolapse symptoms can worsen. On the other hand, it may be that the pessary is filling the space your uterus occupied and allowing some level of natural dynamics. I have no way of knowing. Only you can keep an eye out to determine whether the pessary is ultimately improving or exacerbating your symptoms.

The post-hysterectomy woman is subject to serious conditions that are impossible to happen in a woman who has her uterus. This is why we believe the WW concepts and principles are at least as important to the well-being of the post-hysterectomy population as they are to the rest of us. Our newest program, Saving The Post-Hysterectomy Woman will be available mid-September, and you can even pre-order if you like:

https://wholewoman.com/newpages/landing/post-hyst/HysterectomyReport.pdf...

I cannot tell you not to take the advice of your physician. I can tell you the scientific facts, and describe to you the WW perspective on vaginal and pelvic health. However, it is then up to you whether to experiment and take control of your own health.

Wishing you well,

Christine

Thanks Christine, for the speedy answer! I will definitely be pre-ordering Saving the Post Hysterectomy Woman! (there are a lot of us out there!!) and yes, she is using Trimo-san - so I will be sure to also read your blog concerning same. My gyn seems willing to listen to my concerns, so it will help me to be armed with all the information I can get!! Thanks again.