Flat/thin stools - does this sound like internal intussusception? Advice

Submitted by RutherfordTheBrave on August 2, 2018 - 1:51pm
Body: 

Hello all,

So I know that this website and forum are dedicated to women with prolapse issues, but in researching my symptoms I came across this thread started by a male (https://www.wholewoman.com/forum/node/6050), and I saw how women on this site were able to advise him. So I thought that maybe you could advise me as well...I am a 23 year old male and I believe that I may have an internal intussusception.

It all started in December 2017, when I began to have a yellow-y brown leakage from my anus - sometimes mucus-y, sometimes more fecal in nature, causing skid marks / smears on toilet paper. This was a completely passive leakage - not caused by any inability to hold my bowel movements - but rather something that occurred after bowel movements, when I thought my bowels were empty and felt no urge whatsoever, and after I had wiped and cleaned myself fully. I began to have very frequent bowel movements, sometimes 6 or 7 times a day, and when bearing down during a bowel movement, the left side of my anus would bulge out. Nothing was emerging from inside my anus, but the external tissue on the left side of the anus would bulge out more than the right side, as if there was something pushing against it from underneath. I suppose this could be a hemorrhoid but I don't know.

About a month into these symptoms, it struck me that the reason for them could have been the manner in which I'd been defecating. At one point, one my of friends studying to be a doctor had told me that the natural way to poop was to squat rather than sit on the toilet. I mistook "squat" to mean standing while hovering over the toilet, and had foolishly been pooping this way for at least half a year. I now know what it means to squat correctly, but I believe I may have messed up my pelvic floor by straining while pooping standing up for such a long time. I am trying not to loathe myself for my own stupidity, but I can't get past the possibility that I did this to myself and created my own symptoms.

In any case, at the advice of a gastroenterologist, I did a colon cleanse in May using magnesium citrate, as he believed I was blocked up by fecal impaction. Some symptoms have improved since then - my anus no longer leaks, and my bowel movements have normalized to 1-4 times a day (averaging at 2-3).

But I've had new symptoms for about two months: I now have flat and thin stools - sometimes flattened so that their width spreads to maybe an inch or so, but sometimes pencil-thin all around. I find it more difficult to get these stools out, and found myself having to strain very hard until I began squatting properly / using a stool for my feet, and learned to bear down with my belly rather than straining in the rear passage. But even with this healthier technique, I still have trouble emptying myself fully, and will often have to go back to the toilet within an half hour to an hour to get out whatever's left. These thin stools, obstructed defecation, and bulging anus lead me to believe that I have either:

a) an internal intussusception
b) tight pelvic muscles
c) paradoxical (non-relaxing) puborectalis
d) increased perineal descent

Does it sound likely that I could have given myself an internal intussusception by hovering over the toilet? I have no pain or blood associated with my symptoms. I am hoping that they are caused only by tight pelvic muscles, since this seems correctable. I have to urinate quite frequently, and sometimes if I am anxious or have been holding for a while I have to stand in front of a urinal for a minute or two before my muscles relax enough to let a stream out. I sometimes have a stream that stops and starts, and I often have to pee again soon after peeing. All this seems to indicate tight muscles, and I've been doing stretches every day for the past week that are supposed to relieve a tight pelvic floor - but no luck so far :/

If there is no improvement with stretches by the end of August, I am thinking about going to a specialist for a defecography to find out what is wrong. I don't think that I have colon cancer, since I'm so young and I eat a very healthy diet (almost vegan, lots of fiber, all organic, and plenty of probiotic sauerkraut and kombucha); it seems more likely to be an obstruction of some kind.

I've been trying to improve my posture since I read about the importance of posture on this website. I've discovered that I have a sway back posture, which I think can put undue strain on the pelvic floor, so I've been trying to correct it in the past few days by moving my ribcage forward to align better with my body, then lifting (but not pushing) my chest and bringing my shoulders back. What advice would you give me for how to optimize my posture to correct a possible intussusception as well as tight pelvic muscles and a sway back? I've heard that one might try shifting their weight onto their heels rather than the balls of their feet, and this does tend to straighten out my posture, but also tightens my knees and tends to make my pelvis tuck - and I've heard that tucking the pelvis is not an ideal way to correct sway back.

What advice might you give me for my posture? And can anything be done to reverse an internal intussusception? Is it correctable through the same means as the prolapses many women in this group suffer from?

I know that my symptoms are not as terrible as many of the symptoms suffered by women in this forum, but I am afraid that if I don't correct this soon, it could become worse and develop into a full prolapse, and that my control of my bowels may degenerate, leading to incontinence, pain, even greater difficulty emptying, etc.

Any posture advice would be most appreciated! Any suggestions about what may be causing my symptoms would also be much appreciated! Thank you all in advance for any advice / input you can offer me :)

Forum:

Victory Ahead

August 3, 2018 - 9:03am

Posture is very important to set your organs in lower ab. You can order some of the materials where Christine demo's posture such as First Wheel Yoga, Third Wheel Yoga. I found these DVD's on Amazon. I find these help me work the WW Posture as Christine says how you walk, run, breathe, and stand , sit, lift, everything we do we have to think about Posture. Also First Aid for Prolapse is very good. You can find this at Whole Woman Store store online. As for the flat thin stools, I suggest you have a Celiac Panel done. you could have Celiac Sprue. Just a suggestion. I have it and think you might have a good chance according to this symptom. Victory

Aging gracefully

August 3, 2018 - 9:26am

Victory Ahead,
It's great that you have been able to find some of Christine's materials on the cheap off Amazon, but our readers must also be aware that the WW Store is here right on this site, and that buying from this site supports Christine's further work, and keeps this site available to everyone to keep coming here.

If it is difficult to save up enough money to purchase from this site, there is nothing wrong with looking elsewhere, but do remember the importance of investing in Christine's work right here.

Also, the best way to understand this work is really to start from the beginning, and right now that is the First Aid For Prolapse. It gives comprehensive history of posture as well as daily living suggestions and tips. After getting a good understanding of why we are doing this in the first place, we can then move onto the other materials more easily and successfully.

Surviving60

August 3, 2018 - 10:01am

All of the videos that you have referenced are available in streaming version from the WW Store. While this is an open forum, its stated purpose is specifically to provide information and support of Christine's work. I wouldn't want to see you jeopardize your good standing as a member of our community. - Surviving

RutherfordTheBrave

August 3, 2018 - 4:40pm

Thank you for the recommendations! I'll look into these materials!

Aging gracefully

August 3, 2018 - 5:34pm

Hi RutherfordTheBrave,
Christine would be the one to best advise you on all this. I would suggest a consult with her.

Victory Ahead

August 4, 2018 - 9:19am

I am sorry about mentioning where I purchased DVD's. I will not mention where but just titles from now on. I'm glad Aging explained the importance of supporting Christines future work. I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't found Christine. I am so thankful for Christine, she has really helped me. Victory

RutherfordTheBrave

August 5, 2018 - 12:40pm

OK, thank you Aging gracefully!

Typicalme

August 6, 2018 - 2:06pm

and maybe this is a broader discussion as well - but regarding standing while pooping...
the squatty potty (and squatting in general) is not recommended on here because it tends to push all the organs back. When you use a squatty potty or stool, you have to round out your back, and (especially for women) this pushes our uterus and bladder backwards. Add in some straining (or even regular pushing) and everything is completely unsupported and there's a ton of pressure pushing everything back and down.
Christine recommends leaning forward... and when the need to push a bit arises (never strain!) to lift up off the seat and actually 'hover' (although not hover backwards, but rather lift off seat and lean forward).
At first when I started doing this, I couldn't push my bowel movement out while not sitting. Whenever I lifted off the seat, I felt like everything was closing off and getting pushed back inside. but now I've gotten the hang of it.
And standing, having the weight of the upper body in the glutes and thighs, i can't strain anyway. I can push a bit... but even then, the pushing is supported by my legs and glutes and it isn't pushing in my anal sphincter. it kind of spreads the pressure out I feel like. prevents all that pressure from being aimed right at my anal sphincter.
so yes - straining on the toilet can cause the problems you're seeing (as well as causing intussusception) however, your standing straining may have been better for you actually than squatting and straining (as far as I understand).
don't beat yourself up too much about it in any event... there are many paths that lead us here. all of us were doing the wrong thing until we found this site.

RutherfordTheBrave

August 11, 2018 - 10:21pm

Thanks Typicalme - your response was enlightening! I will try lifting off the seat while leaning forward. I've tried this before after reading Christine's suggestion in another thread (which I linked to in my first post) but didn't have much success with it, so I went back to squatting. But maybe I didn't give the lifting-off-the-seat-while-leaning-forward enough of a chance; I will try to get the hang of it and see what happens.

Just so I understand "straining"...does straining just refer to pushing really hard? Or is straining defined by the location of the pushing, where it refers specifically to pushing that's focused back around the rear passage? I find that it's very difficult to empty myself with at least some pushing around the rear passage - the bearing down with my belly muscles alone just isn't enough for a complete evacuation - but I try not to push too hard back there, and I never push really really hard.

The strange thing about this is that I never ever struggled with constipation until this issue came up, so I never had to strain...so the only possible cause I can find is the standing while pooping or the cleanse prescribed by my gastroenterologist...and the flattened stools didn't show up until after the cleanse.

My stretches don't seem to be helping, so so much for my hopes that these flattened stools are due to tight muscles. And pooping, and the urge to go, just feel different...the feeling down there is just different, as if there's an obstruction of some kind. However, I do think that I have tight pelvic muscles as well, due to irregularities with initiating urine flow, especially when anxious, and frequently having to urinate again soon after going.

I am going to call a specialist on Monday to schedule a defecography, so I can confirm whether I have an intussusception or not - the constant wondering about it is driving me crazy. I've put off the tests for too long thinking that maybe I could address the problem with stretches or that maybe it'd go away on its own.

Should it turn out that I do have an intussusception as we suspect, are there any exercises that can be done to help? I read on this site that Kegels can just make things worse...I imagine they'd tighten the pelvic muscles as well.

Thanks again for all your help :)

RutherfordTheBrave

August 11, 2018 - 10:32pm

Another question: does anyone else deal with flat stools as a symptom of their prolapse? From what I've read online, it doesn't seem to be a very common complaint among people with prolapse / intussusception. When I look up "flat stools" on Google, what tends to come up is info on polyps, colon cancer, and IBS - very few mentions of prolapse in relation to flat stools.

Aging gracefully

August 12, 2018 - 7:05am

RutherfordTheBrave,
Wondering if you had a chance to read this post to maleissues from Christine:
https://www.wholewoman.com/forum/comment/44991#comment-44991

Inssusception would be treated the same as any other prolapse here, with, of course, no straining on the toilet seat. Straining can include just sitting on the toilet; that's why we raise up slightly off, but this takes time to develop, so if you are not having success with it right away, don't be alarmed. There is also the Lopo position which is more of a leaning forward technique made up by one of our long term members that you can look up in the search box.
And, there is nothing wrong with giving a little push once you are in the proper position with pelvic organs resting comfortably in the lower belly. I don't know what the difference would be for a man though.
As Christine covers in her post, your diet can play a very important part in this also, so read her post carefully as she does cover some of this and so much more that is helpful.

RutherfordTheBrave

August 12, 2018 - 2:08pm

Hi Aging gracefully,

Thank you for sharing! I have read that post, but I will take another careful look at it!

This morning I tried again to use the leaning-forwards-while-lifting-off-the-seat approach, and once again I had not-great results...I felt like I had to push harder to get everything out than I would if I had my feet up on a stool, and here's the weird thing - as soon as I lift off the seat, I start to feel a lot of pressure in my face, as if all the blood flow is going up to my head - I imagine all the veins in my face and neck are bulging. It's pretty uncomfortable and I imagine it's a sign that I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what. The stools seem to come out even flatter than they otherwise would. It doesn't feel like I'm opening the passage up better. Rather, as soon as I lift up and begin to put the pressure in my legs, it feels like my muscles are tightening up and I have to push harder to get anything out. In the end, I had to use the stool again to empty myself completely...but at least I still can with enough time and positioning, so I know I should count my blessings. I'll keep trying with this approach.

But from what I described, does anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong? Or any more detailed advice to make the most of the hovering approach that's promoted here? Should leaning forward be opening me up so that it's effortless? Does it make sense that I should have to push harder when in this position? And how far off the seat should I be lifting - an inch or even higher, or not even an inch? And how am I to maintain the Whole Man/Woman posture when leaning forwards and hovering like this?Sorry for so many questions, I'm just confused :/

I will look into the Lopo approach as well! And maybe I should experiment again with taking gluten and wheat out of my diet.

I have a harder time getting the last bit out these days than I used to - it tends to stay stuck at the opening. Without the bidet on my toilet, cleaning would probably be difficult. What do you all think about psyllium husk, btw? Do you find it helpful? I used to find it helpful but it seems to have lost much of its helpful effect...

Aging gracefully

August 12, 2018 - 2:48pm

Hi RutherfordTheBrave,
It is not that you are necessarily doing something wrong with the technique, but that you haven't done it long enough. it takes consistency and time with this work. For me, I came here with a severely prolapsed uterus that was resting on my rectum. I also felt a bit of slackening in the back passage. It took me most of a year, working on my posture, and the proper toileting, along with doing the exercises in Christine's videos. I could feel the progress happening slowly over time until I was able to have non obstructive bowel movements. There was a tightening and pulling of my pelvic organs as well as my rectum into more proper alignment, so those bowel movements came with ease instead of straining. It's a great feeling when you get there.

I would think from reading what Christine has written, that a similar approach with intussusception would be as sucessful, but don't know if you would be doing it a little differently as a man? Definitely not my area of expertise.

I think a healthy diet also includes what you put into it as well as what you take out. That can be very personal for each of us, but I really think adding the fermented food and honey will help in building the healthy bacteria back up in the gut which is something Christine does cover in her gut bacteria video. Good source to look into.

RutherfordTheBrave

August 12, 2018 - 3:26pm

OK thank you Aging gracefully! You've been so helpful and I'm truly appreciative :) I am going to make a batch of rejuvelac today (something I saw in the other thread we both linked) and I will try the LOPO technique - it sounds promising. Also, can I ask what kind of honey you're referring to?

And once I can confirm that I have an intussusception as the cause of my symptoms (for now it's been educated speculation) I will most definitely purchase some of Christine's educational content. I'm glad to hear that there are strengthening exercises out there that can re-align the pelvic organs!

But for now, I have just one more question. I know that most women on this site have had little or no success with the squatty-potty approach, where the feet are up on a stool, and this makes sense, since it doesn't sound any more natural than sitting on a toilet in the first place. I know Christine said in the Maleissues thread that this "closes the pelvic wall and makes less room for evacuation".

But what about actual squatting? As in squatting all the way down, the way an animal would do? To make this work with a toilet, one would have to perch with their feet on the the toilet seat and squat down over the bowl. But to me, this sounds like the closest thing to a natural evacuation position that one could get. If we didn't have toilets, isn't this what we'd do? It sounds even more natural to me than the leaning-forwards-while-lifting approach, since that one depends on a toilet seat.

Would real squatting close off the pelvic wall in the same way using a squatty potty would? If so, how would humans evacuate in the days before toilets? Sorry for my ignorance, and I'm very grateful for all the good advice you're offering me!

Aging gracefully

August 12, 2018 - 4:58pm

Hi RutherfordTheBrave,
Christine gives a very thorough explanation and covers the difference between a full squat as compared to the half squat in her work where the sigmoid colon comes into play. One place with a really good description and anatomical history is in her Fundamentals video.

Raw local honey has the best benefits.

Also, We do the exercises in whole woman in order to strengthen our posture, but it is the posture that pulls our organs into place.

Aging gracefully

August 12, 2018 - 5:12pm

You will see in other cultures the full squat and toilets that are simply holes on the floor. So, I know what you are talking about, and I think Christine covers this somewhere. There is so much information here it's hard to remember where it all is sometimes! But, that's a good thing really. Or, maybe I saw it elsewhere; not sure now, but it someone else remembers, please bring it up.

And, the reason I keep referring back to Christine is because she has actually studied this stuff, and then presented it to us laymen. She is the expert and explains it the best. It's amazing information and a real learning experience I have been grateful for all these years of being part of the Whole Woman community.

RutherfordTheBrave

August 13, 2018 - 12:36am

(the below post is edited to reflect updates since I didn't want to post too many times in such a short duration of time)

Thank you so much for all your help and the information you've shared with me! I truly appreciate your time and thoughtfulness :) I will look for the videos you mentioned and continue exploring this website for information.

I tried the LOPO technique (or as close as I could to approximating it) today with some mixed luck. I didn't use a stool to rest my elbows on (since I want to develop a technique that I can use in a restroom anywhere, even when stools or other props are not available) but instead rested my hands against my knees.

In order for this position to work for me, I had to lean way forwards while lifting my rear about a foot off the seat - does this sound right? A foot seems a bit high by my guess, but my back passage wouldn't open up to allow evacuation until it reached this height - and by that point, my head was hanging down just below my genitals. I'm guessing this isn't optimal, but it was the best I could do at approximating LOPO in a functional way :/ does having my butt a foot over the seat and my head around genital height sound like safe or acceptable form?

I did succeed in evacuating my bowels in this way - and even though the BM came out broken in flattened pieces, I didn't have to strain; lifting myself a foot over the seat created enough pressure with minimal pushing on my part. I'm realizing that one of the most important parts (I think) is keeping my belly out, rounded and relaxed and not tightening the muscles - is this what is meant by maintaining WW position while evacuating? Strangely enough, letting my belly relax (or at least what I think is relaxing) actually requires a conscious effort.

In any case, I will continue to try this technique and experiment with it. I suppose it may take a while to figure out how to move my bowels optimally in this new position. If I have any more questions or updates I'll post them here. Thank you again for your generous help :)

Typicalme

August 13, 2018 - 11:10am

the lopo does take some experimentation. I think you're right on with the belly relaxed however from my understanding, you want your upper body extended forward, not rounded down. also, my thighs touch the seat or they do unless i'm pushing, then i lift a few inches up.

I kind of think of lopo as how one would sit riding one of those fast motorcycles.... arms and upper body stretched forward, heels as close as or under the toilet. belly relaxed.
your back (and here i'm confused and i end up alternating between both) - back is either straight with a long line from tailbone to neck, or lumbar curve in place.
either way you want to lift your tailbone.... relax belly and breathe deep from diaphragm.
and in this position, it's ok to push (as far as i'm aware) since all the organs are protected and you're basically pushing horizontally around your organs.
i picture my intestines falling forward into my belly allowing them to stretch a bit.
when i'm in a public stall i rest my hands on the door in front of me (being careful not to push on the door too much since i don't want it to pop open lol)
at home, i've got a bathtub about 2 1/2 feet in front of the toilet so I rest my hands on that.
if stuff's not moving, instead of pushing harder i try to rock back and forth then, or twisting to my right, and then go back to lopo.
other times, I walk away. there's no need to completely empty every time... walk around a bit, do some downward dog (i've done downward dog in the handicapped stall before when the bathroom at work's been empty... i just put my hands very very close to the wall where i'm sure no one's been walking...)
downward dog sometimes it feels like it stops everything but I feel like it's re-setting the intestines and it'll all come out sooner or later - no need to get it all out every time.

RutherfordTheBrave

August 13, 2018 - 2:12pm

Thank you for the input! I'll try to apply your advice and continue experimenting, and post here with any updates.