feedback on video

Submitted by gardengal on November 17, 2004 - 8:14am
Body: 

Hello Christine-- Well, I finally watched your video and I have a lot of feedback for you, but I would prefer to "talk" to you in person first before posting on this public site. Can I reach you at [email protected]? If not, I was thinking of writing you via snail mail! My experience with the video, was unfortunately, that my prolapse was worse afterwards. But I do feet you have something to contribute. My pelvis is quite different from yours. One thing I will say here is that I think that part of what you are teaching, but not saying, is that in order for the pelvis to be in the right popsition, the relationship of the thigh bones to the pelvis needs to be different. Most (white, American) people stand with their thigh bones forward, and weight forward on the balls of their feet. Yes, different cultures have different habits. In my yoga teaching, if I instruct people to stand, take the tops of their thigh bones back, and shift the weight more towards the fronts of the heels, that tends to lift the tailbone and "stick the butt out" as you put it in your book. Which is what you want. We (white, Americans) have a huge resistance to this! But what I'm really saying here is that the change comes from the thigh bones in relation to the pelvis, not the sacrum in relation to the lumbar spine. At least that's what I can "buy"--because I have naturally more lumbar curve and am very vulnerable to destabilization there and at my SI joints. --- And as usual, I will write more later. . .

Christine

November 17, 2004 - 8:20am

Hi Gardengal,

No need to make this personal...please feel free to give us your total review here...we're about learning everything we can.

:-)Christine

Christine

November 17, 2004 - 9:25am

...and until you "write more later"...

The beauty of the pelvic girdle is that one "part" can't be "right" while another "wrong". I invite everyone to try this:

Stand up straight with your feet pointing straight ahead. Distribute your weight evenly between the base of the big toe, little toe, and heel. Now...with your hands, pull the tops of your thigh bones back - your lumbar spine will curve! Now...curve your lumbar spine - the tops of your thigh bones will pull back!

;-)Christine

gardengal

November 17, 2004 - 6:51pm

Yes, we agree on that. But what I usually teach in addition to taking the thigh bones back, to take the tailbone down, and slightly forward. this prevents compression in the area of L-5 and SI-1. That's the fifth lumbar and first sacral vertebra. In Anusara lingo, this is known as "pelvic loop". (Anusara is a style of yoga developed by John Friend, with a lot of very brilliant ways of explaining alignment instructions.) The thigh bone action and tailbone action are opposing actions, one tends to undo the other. That is why, if you Christine heard too much about "tucking the tailbone" in a yoga class, you may not have been a happy camper.
OK, now try this: take a yoga block (the smaller size, about 4x6x9 is best) or a roll of paper towels, or a improvise something to place between your upper inner thighs in standing position, with the feet pointed forward. firm the outer thighs in to hold the block in place (rather than squeeze with the inner thighs) and imagine moving or actually try to move the block back toward the wall behind you. Do you feel the pelvic floor lift?
If you like this, this comes straight from Iyengar yoga. Now I'm going to go post something more for the lady who asked about yoga.
Oh, one more thing: my trial of your video wasn't a completely "fair" trial because I had/have my period, and after watching it, I was doubtful it would be a good thing to do at this particular time, but gave it a try anyway.

Christine

November 18, 2004 - 8:11am

Dear Gardengal,

Your perceptions and training of what is happening with the spine is taken from a total study of and application to the male spine! I

Christine

November 18, 2004 - 4:21pm

...in the statement above I mean the spine itself uses little more energy "loaded" than "unloaded." This is such a magical thing really, as the spinal suspension system is such that the female spine is almost as efficient at carrying 30 lbs on top of the head as it is just balancing the skull....

JulieJ

November 18, 2004 - 7:34pm

Gardengal,

I was wondering, what do you mean that you have destabilization in your SI joints? I ask because I have had problems with my right SI joint ever since my first was born. A lot of the things my PT told me to do to help it go directly against the natural posture and movement (e.g. tucking the tail bone in, tightening my abs while standing). I have noticed that when maintaining the natural position most of the day my right SI acts up. I can see I will probably have a delicate balancing act hear between treating my prolapse and not aggrivating my back problem. Aaag, a catch 22! With my joint problems I have had my whole life, I have encountered several of those. :(

Julie

Christine

November 19, 2004 - 8:27am

I look forward to Gardengal's response to you, Julie, but can I just jump in here a moment?

Healthfully addressing your prolapse AND your SI pain cannot be two different things. The body cannot do one thing to make one part happy and another to fix something else. I need to tell you that what I am offereing here is the "WholeWoman" perspective...I did not get this from any one source or discipline because that source does not exist, so have had to synthesize it from many many sources, some of which have come from the latest and best of the orthopedic literature.

It is true that what we are doing here goes against much of what is taught by conventional medicine, including PT. I can't give you a reason why that is...I do not know why the brilliant and so knowledgeable fellow I kept going to month after month for chronic, debilitating neck pain did not teach me how to hold my own body. I can't tell you why extremely invasive and destructive spinal fusion surgeries are some of the most common of operative procedures (outside of "women's surgeries", of course) yet, men and women are rarely taught by their doctors that natural human posture places no excess pressure on the human lumbar spine, and ruptured discs should be rare in our species. I cannot tell you why women are taught in yoga to pull their thighs back while pushing their tailbone forward, creating an ideal of the more vertically-attached MALE sacrum, not only going against their XX chromosomes, but also twenty years of development whereby internal pressures naturally "sculpt" the female shape.

I can keep helping you reframe the concepts of what is happening in your body and see if it's possible to not only improve your prolapse but also relieve your back pain.

The lumbar curve is what gives the SI joints their stability in the human standing position. This curve is also present in the male spine and must be encouraged by natural standing and seated positions to avoid weakness and injury to the lumbar discs. Too much curve or two little can cause problems. Remember that men have a completely different "core" than women, theirs being relatively straight and ours L-shaped.

There are some additional things you can do to stabilize your SI joints:

loralie1

November 19, 2004 - 11:02am

Christine,
your descriptions to Julie are very helpful for me as well. i, too, have been struggling to understand how to blend what seemed like contradictory work (prolapse vs. lower back and SI joint problems). your new description of lengthening between the public bone and belly button will help me not over-curve. (which is what i think i did, and why my back got so sore). THANKS for being so patient.
loralie

JulieJ

November 19, 2004 - 2:37pm

Yes, THANK YOU, Christine, for your patience! I think it will take a while for me to totally "get it" and undo years of ingrained beliefs and habit. It's weird, I was having a "new" back pain when I first noticed my prolapse - a kind of strong pulling sensation in my middle back, which made me suspect a hernia of some sort - and since doing the natural posture and movement, that has completely disappeared! So, overall, my back pain is much better, but my right SI joint is what seems to get irritated when I over curve the lumber spine, which is what I MUST be doing, I think. I will incorporate what you described in your last post. You know that position you mentioned where you lay on your back with your feet over a chair - I used to use that position all the time when I had severe back pain years ago. It was the only thing that gave me relief!! Thanks for reminding me. :)

julie

gardengal

November 21, 2004 - 4:52pm

christine--
Well, I do not have a male spine and I do know what instructions cause me pain or get me out of pain. I did NOT say that I teach or reccomend "tuck the tailbone" There is a big difference between tucking the tailbone and lengthening it. I am trying to be as clear as possible here, but I should have realized that there is a tendency to read online material very quickly and not get it, so before I say more, I am going to print out the entire thread and then reply at a later time.