Giving up!!!

Oh Nancy…I’ve thought of you often and have wondered if such a plan was in the works. I knew when your last daughter had her surgery that you would probably be next.

Godspeed, dear friend, and I can only hope the surgery is everything you are hoping it to be.

(((Hugs))),

Christine

Hi Nancy

I read through some of your early posts, though not all of them. Did you ever give the v2 support garment a go?

You have just about given your all to avoid this surgery. I am so sorry that Wholewoman techniques haven't been enough to enable you to keep going with it. Nevertheless, it is great that you have posted with your decision, and I hope you call back occasionally to tell us how you are going. I know you won't be leading us up the garden path with exaggerated stories of feeling like a teenager again. It is not often that a women who is part of our own community decides to opt for surgery, so your comments in future will be read with interest. I do so hope it goes well.

I found this article while ferreting around on the Web looking for stuff about ovaries and menopause, http://www.athenainstitute.com/oophorectomy.html . It is about the role of ovaries before and after menopause in relation to hysterectomy. I am not trying to change you mind. It might just fill in some gaps in your information. I found it very interesting. I would hate to think that you had an incomplete picture of the wider implications for your body of hysterectomy and ovary removal, particularly as your daughters were probably pre-menopause when they had their hysterectomies. They have not yet been where you currently are now, and it seems that the guidelines are different, depending on the reproductive age of the woman at hysterectomy. Anyway, you might gain something from it. I hope so.

Best wishes Nancy.

Cheers

Louise

Hey Nancy- how old are you? I know it's rude but I'm curious. and just another thought- can you do the ab isolation exercise? It sucks everything up-
2 years is a long time to go with no improvement. that must be so frustrating. I do the 2 steps forward one step back routine- but I do seem to be getting better over this last year. I can not imagine myself being patient with no improvement and lots of pain for that long.

Never say never. I think I will never have surgery but if my uterus gets so low it is coming outside I just might do it too. I say I won't. I say I'll just push it in and stuff a pessary in there to hold it up, but who knows what I will really be dealing with when (if) the time comes. I certainly hope everything goes well for you, your recovery is fast and you don't have any subsequent problems.

at some point we all have to accept that older and weaker does happen but I know for a fact that early 60s are not the time for that. You are still a great age for building new muscle and increasing flexibility.
the ab isolation is a past thread- can you search for it? I don't know the exact name- but there is a link with a video demonstration.
Nancy I am glad you are feeling better today. I wonder if your job isn't helping things much. If you are going to quit the job if you have the surgery then why not look for a new job now. Something with less lifting?

I remember you well, from my early days here. you were a great source of strength for me and I'm really sorry to hear that things have not been going well for you.
I think alemama's post with the abs exercise was called 'does this work' or something like that. I couldn't figure out how to do it right, but its worth a shot.
and stick around this time, I've missed your posts!

Hi Nancy....I know where you are coming from...I am 63years and have had a prolapse uterus for about 2years.....but in the last 3months it has dropped very low and the cervix sits just outside, very uncomfortable..rubs on my pants and feels very heavy, naturally I have a slight bladder prolapse as well...I moved house so all the packing and lifting has made it drop have been doing the workout firebreathing reading posts and taking advice but I think I have just left it to late. I have changed my life style, I have always been very active and sporty and now I am unable to do those things I am not happy and very depressed most of the time.I feel at 63 healthy and fit this is no lifestyle...So I went to see my doctor....
thinking surgery...but he fitted a pessary so now I have my life back..yes I am a new person. So far I am very happy as I can do everything but not heavy lifting have a doctor who knows what he is doing and I think this is important.
So Nancy or anyone thinking surgery..try a pessary first and have it fitted properly by a doctor who knows what he is doing...I cannot feel the prolapse or the pessary.

Hi Bling:
I'm so happy for you! It sounds like you have found something that is going to work in your life. There aren't many people here who use pessaries, and I think it's great to have someone on the forum who started without one, went thru the process of being fitted, and is now starting to live with one. You can be a great source of information to us all. A test subject, so to speak :)

I tried the sea sponge without success, and can certainly discuss and share my experiences with that. It would be great if Christine could start a brand new thread just for pessary information. You would be a huge source of information and help to everyone, particularly the new people who come looking for information. And there are others already here, I'm sure, who also have their own experiences with pessaries to share. So much of the information is buried within other threads all over the forum, it's sometimes very hard to piece it all together.

At this point I have decided to live without a pessary, but it is certainly on my radar screen for sometime in the future if, as I get older, I feel I would be more comfortable with one.

Again, good luck to you!

Goldfinch

Hi Bling:
I know how excited you were about your pessary - sorry you haven't had more comments from people about your situation. How are you doing with it? I hope it has helped your depression and that you have returned to your 'normal' routine of power walking, exercising, etc. Please let me know! I'm thinking about you every day.
Luv,
Goldfinch :)

Hi Goldfinch...
Thanks for your reply...at this stage I feel great and I am back doing everything..yes even my power walking...
It is so hard to believe I cannot feel the prolapse or the pessary.
I still do the workout and posture but not the firebreathing as my prolapse is now held in place....
Lve Bling

Dear Nancy,

Wow…you’re learning all about the big guns of pessaries! I wouldn’t know where to start with either the donut or cube! The mere thought makes me wince. Did you try the ring-with-support before the others?

I’m not surprised that your cystocele has come down some (probably to the INTROITUS, or vaginal opening), but that doesn’t mean it will continue to progress until your vagina turns inside out. I have no medical advice to offer, but as long as your doctor is keeping an eye on things, try different strategies to stay comfortable and keep your symptoms mild. Many women in your age group are doing just that.

Hugs and please keep us posted!

Christine

Nancy…try www.milexproducts.com The ring-with-support is suggested for 1st/2nd degree prolapse, which is what your symptoms suggest. It will lie somewhat flat between the walls and if you’re lucky, hold the cystocele forward and create more comfort for you. The donut and cube are often prescribed for more severe conditions. They hold the vaginal walls quite open, which means the organs on the other side of the walls can be squished into the vaginal space under the force of intraabdominal pressure. Doctors have long watched this progression. :) Christine

Hi Nancy...
I have the ring....my doctor has put it in and I go back every 3 months....he has given me a cream to help stop infections.
I went back to him 3days ago and everything is Ok...
Nancy I am going away for a few days so will not be on the forum for about 5 days.
I wish you the best we are all different so must find what works best.so far I am happy, do not feel the prolapse or pessary.
Bling.

Hi Nancy,

Here are a few questions to ask:

• How is the pelvis positioned inside the standing woman?

• How is the vagina positioned inside the standing woman?

• I’ve heard that in normal anatomy the vagina is a flat, virtual space with the front wall pressed down against the back wall.

• I’ve heard that after some period of time – months or years – many women are no longer able to retain their pessary and must be fitted with a larger size.

• Is this because the pessary holds the vagina open, therefore making it vulnerable to the forces of intraabdominal pressure?

• Does this translate as the vagina beginning to turn itself inside out?

• If this is true, shouldn’t I start with the smallest, thinnest pessary available so that it might lie somewhat flat between the walls and, hopefully, push my cystocele out of the vaginal space?

• Milex shows that the ring-with-support pessary is supposed to be inserted to sit horizontally at the top of the vagina. However, women report that it does not stay in that position, but flips vertically almost as soon as it is inserted. Does this mean it is taking the natural axis of the vagina?

• Are there other pessaries that are designed to lay flat between the vaginal walls?

• If not, why not? How long has it been since a new pessary came on the market?

• If I leave this cube in for several weeks at a time, do you think I might develop a low rectocele?

• I’ve heard the pelvic organs are suspended from the spine and pelvis. Do you think prolapse is primarily a postural problem in women?

• Can the “gold standard” of surgical treatment for prolapse be anatomically defended?

• Why is there a 30% re-operation rate? Are second and third surgical outcomes any better?

• If prolapse surgery statistics are so grim, shouldn’t we take the most conservative course possible at the onset of treatment?

• Is leaving the cube pessary in place for months at a time the most conservative course?

:-) Christine

Addressing Christine's question about how the pelvic organs lie within female anatomy it is very interesting to look at the drawing in Christine's book and compare it to Lusk's "The Art of Midwifery", which was published in the late 1800s and was a foundation for the modern obstetrics field. Lusk admits his drawing is not correct, having been taken from a sectioned corpse who had been prepared by stuffing the rectum with cotton and filling the bladder with alcohol. The vagina and uterus are dislocated; the erected uterus is poised for a slide right down the vertical, straight vagina, yet how many ob/gyn students took that plate to be their visualized image of the female interior? My point is, the misinformation began there when "modern medicine" took control of "midwifery".

Dear Nancy and Anne (and Goldfinch!),

It is so very true that things took a terrible turn when men began to “specialize” in the birth process and in women’s health disorders. It was just too easy to produce causes and effects that ultimately created an entire industry, which we can now argue is not in the best interests of women!

Thank you so much for your sweet response, Nancy. I try my best to stay up with things here, but it is just not possible to answer every post. BTW – Goldfinch – if you are reading, I’ve wanted to answer your question about overweight and prolapse but have not yet gotten to it. However, we have addressed this several times in the past (wish there was a way to catalogue all the posts!) and if you type “rectal pillars” in to the search function you should find several posts on the subject. The bottom line is I think the pelvic interior adjusts okay to weight gain, but as we all know, overweight stresses all of our body systems. Sudden weight loss removes the fat pads (rectal pillars) under the pelvic diaphragm and can cause new onset rectocele.

I’m in a whirlwind here and will not be around much for the next week. Am giving a large, low-budget party on the 21st and am making all the food for about seventy people! We are going to have (volunteer) musicians, dancing, and tomorrow dd and I are driving to the mountains for pine boughs to fill our place with. I’ve made all our party clothes and am so excited!! Just have to pace myself though, cuz there remains a ton of work to do!

Please take good care of each other and all blessings at this precious Winter Solstice Time!

Love, Christine

Hi Nancy,

Was hoping we'd hear how it all went with the new doc!

Happy New Year!

Christine

Nancy so sorry I didn't get back to you but I closed down my Computer after I posted to you......I just have a ring not w/support....probably toooo late now to be of any help.
Hope your doctors visit was a success.
Bling