vaginal muscles

I can't really answer your question about strengthening the vaginal muscles with specific exercise targeting pelvic muscles; I suspect there isn't much you can do in the way of exercise to tighten everything back up. I believe that general good health and regular overall exercise will make the best of a bad prolapse situation, like every other area of your life.

But I want to address the things you said about your husband. How is your sex life right now? Does your husband seem to be attracted to you? Does he seem to enjoy intercourse? Does he have no trouble having orgasms inside you? If so, I think you made a big mistake pushing him to admit to you that you are looser than you used to be. Being nice and "tight" is the stereotypical great thing that women think men seek in a woman. He knows this, and he knows how women's feelings of esteem are tied to wanting to feel tight to their man. So he was sparing your feelings by keeping to himself the fact that he noticed you've loosened up a bit. But if you still have a good sex life and he still enjoys intercourse then he doesn't mind. A good husband won't care if you're not that tight because he will appreciate the other things about you that he loves, and he will care enough about your feelings to only give you compliments.

It makes him feel like a man to be protective of your feelings and to make you think you're every bit the sexy bomb you were when you first met. By forcing him to admit he has noticed your vagina has changed for the worse you took this away from him. Pretending not to notice was a gift of love to you. He was sparing you the distress of thinking your vagina isn't quite as sexy as it used to be, when the truth is, it IS just as sexy. Maybe not as tight, but just as SEXY because it is your vagina and he loves YOU. By forcing your husband to verbalize this thing out loud, you have put a burden on him... the burden of knowing that you know that he knows that you aren't as tight anymore. He was enjoying thinking you didn't think he noticed and you've now taken that away from him.

Being less than completely honest about how tight you aren't is not like being less than honest about cheating on you. He knows there is nothing much you can do about it, so he was not going to burden you with knowing that he noticed. That was him stepping up and being GOOD to you. And what did you do? Nagged him until he had to stop doing the good thing he was doing for you. You should have accepted it with grace and gratefulness and responded in kind by not noticing (out loud) his greying chest hair or whatever.

Now if you don't have a good sex life, things have gone downhill in that department and you don't know why, then ignore what I've just said and yes, in that case you do need to nag him into honestly admitting what the problem is. It would be a pretty shallow man who would reject you because of that but hey, such men do exist.

Anne-H, I sit up straight and read your posts very carefully because I have come to
really respect your clarity and articulate writing.

I had a similar (semi-hysterical) conversation with my husband in the days
after the injury when I was frantically looking on the web for some reputable surgeon
to cut and paste me back together. I came across something about the trend in
"designer vaginas". These poor (shell-shocked) guys, when I think about the
drama I've put my man through I get so ashamed.
My guy has always struggled with being quick on the trigger. Since the injury
though he doesn't have that problem anymore. But then we have had a major power shift
in our relationship by how I begged him to come back to the marriage. I also think
he's lost some respect for me with the depression this damned prolapse has sunk me in.
Yes , the changes in our sex-life can be added to the long list of things I'm grieving.
I sit here in the ruins of my life at a loss as to how to put it back together again.
I go through the motions of my days. I'm very quiet (not normally) and so is my husband
We have had days of long silences . We are gearing up to take a 3 hr. trip to my
Mother i.L. Oh dear... I'm coaching myself and just scared as hell I'm going to get
thin lipped when she starts in on "Giving it over to the Lord." and she says EVERything 3
times - not kidding. Oh dear. She's well meaning, but since she lent me money for
MY mortgage, she thinks she's invested now and comes up with So much advice. I I Iyiyiyiyiyiyiyiiyiyiyiyiyi.
That I must listen to.

I'm going to swill water and go to the bathroom ALL the time. And smile a whole lot.
And think about how excited my Boy is gonna be.... When he realizes he's got an electric
GUITAR ! I hope you are all equally immersed in lovely Christmas stories as this whole
package became for my Boy. It's been a group effort,including the shop-keeper's generosity.
It's utterly sweet.
Hugs to all of you sweet sisters , Thank You for taking the time to post and sharing and
reading and caring and becoming friends of mine. So many good wise women here and
some like me with so much to learn. I want to learn to accept my life, but at present I'm not
GETTING IT.
Zelda

Oh, Patty, I love that!

The sentiment of it, that is, not the physical failing. That sounds like something my husband would say.

Running out of steam...now, that might not have anything at all to do with you. It could be he's having a bit of trouble himself, or it could be a combination thing. Men have their troubles, too. It's not really a fault either way though. Bodies age, they change, we adapt...hopefully. And I say thank the sweet heavens that there is so much more to sex and intimacy than intercourse. So very much more.

Okay, back to sewing. Reminds me of the mommies saying...baby's awake!! :-) Kit

And you'll be an even more amazing woman for the trials. I know stuff ..... well, it's almost Christmas so I won't go where I was heading, it's hard enough for me to go there on regular days...pretty much impossible during this season, but suffice to say I hear ya and I feel it with ya and I can match your in-law stories, too, and come out way on top, I promise!! lol The changes we're forced to make, we don't want to make, the lessons they teach, we don't want to learn, but given no choice to the changes I'm not about to reject the lessons. Some of them are pretty awesome and deep and make me a better friend/lover/mother/person. Without our own troubles how could we understand each others? Kit

Must go sew...Kit

One more thing...I sit up straight for AnneH's post, too. Kit

loved your post

Thank you, all of you, and Patty, your man sounds wonderful. Guys are sometimes simpler and more real than we give them credit for.

Yes I too am busy getting ready for Christmas, so much to do!!! A bit overwhelmed but I have to look at the bright side; at least I have people to cook for and buy gifts for. For me it is important to relax... I have to MAKE myself not be the perfectionist... maybe especially because I have physical problems that are impacted by overdoing it. And it IS so important to exercise; when I get busy and drop the exercise I pay for it in feeling terrible. It just isn't worth it.

Didn't mean to get off the subject but the holiday is kind of intruding on my mind right now, ha ha.

Anne

I just wanted to reassure you that it's okay to get annoyed with your mom about "giving it over to the Lord". I consider myself a pretty religious person, and STILL have always gotten upset when people tell me this. As someone prone to depression, it just makes me feel guilty on top of my actual woes. Like somehow I'm not trying hard enough, and all my troubles would go away if I "gave them over". I'm not even sure what they really mean, beyond "stop worrying about it".

That being said, your mom probably means well, and some for some religious types, that's just their way of talking.

Agree Gracemom. I too am very spiritual, but whenever people give me that kind of talk I sense that they're operating from the assumption that they're closer to God than I am and therefore think they are "helping" get me there by telling me what to do and how to deal with my God. To say "Give it over to the Lord" is to tell you how to talk to your God....THAT IS A VERY PERSONAL MATTER. It is actually quite offensive if you think about it. They're making the assumption that you haven't already asked God for help, or are otherwise remiss in your conversations with your God. This is often a VERY wrong assumption, and you can't make it just because a person is acting a certain way on the surface.

But having said all that, when it's your Mom, you just have to suck it up and take it. In her eyes you'll always be her baby and she is ALWAYS responsible for your spiritual health just like when you were a little kid. Yeah I know I'm 51 years old now mom and I don't need you telling me how to pray I am LONG since set in my ways in that department, but the older mom gets (she's in her 80s now) the more simplistic she gets and the more import she puts on the basics. She just wants to make sure the really important stuff is covered and your salvation is really important so she harps on that. Unless she is committing evil against you, ya gotta be polite to your mother and just let her do her thing. Let that stuff go like water off a duck's back. It does no good to try to tell them to change; they can't remember the conversation... ha ha ha ha....

The way we talk to God IS a personal matter. I am very careful to stick to "I" statements in general
when giving advice. The loan seems to put her above that social grace.

She's my Mother -in-law... And she's been coming up with all these half-baked ideas of ways for me
to make money, and since the loan she's gotten kind of nervy. Her idea that I should move my
bedroom and my son's into the unfinished basement, and rent out our bedrooms out was where I
drew the line in polite listenening... I mean honestly I'm under more stress than I can deal with...
and I should give up the tiny bit of comfort I have and camp in my own home ? I'm still kind of
ticked off at her and think it was rude. I am dreading staying 5 days, she's hard to take and I'm
definitely not at my best tolerant self. In fact I'm rather intolerant these days. I'm so angry in general
a rippin fight could be so tempting... I MUST hold it together and keep my dignity.
Fortitude- will be my Mantra.
Zelda

Ah Zelda I missed that it was your mother in law and not your mother. Or I read it but have the memory of a flashcube these days. Yep that is a little different and financial largess does kind of make you feel obligated to put up with more stuff, while it makes the person who gave the money feel entitled to tell you what to do. Strings attached is always uncomfortable.... almost not worth it. My mother in law gives us big expensive gifts and I have always been a bit uncomfortable accepting them, but she is real good about not telling me what to do or attaching strings, so it's just a matter of me feeling like I can't reciprocate with an equivalent gift. She never brings up religion at all... not one word. But she gives us a subscription to Guideposts every year. Ha ha ha... that is her way of trying to give us religion. I don't mind; I like the magazine and I appreciate her going that route instead of verbally telling me anything. She's actually been a really great mother in law.

So hard to do when you think you have all the answeres. Perhaps a tactful "I don't care to talk about it." Would help. I know as a mother and mother in law it works on me.
Best wishes to all for a Wonderful Christmas and the Best New Year ever.
Regards,
Flora

I bet all your ladies love having you as a mother and mother in law:)

I, too, have a generous mil. generous with money/gifts as well as advice. we bought our house from my il's (at below market rate - I had my misgivings but at the time chose not to argue with dh about it) and yes, they feel a cetain sense of entitlement when it comes to advising us. 'have you tried....' and 'have you thought about...' statements always make my skin crawl. the best response I've come up with is 'thank you for your concern' with a smile plastered on my face. the il's come and visit with us a few times a year, staying for a few weeks at a time. dh and I have a mantra "smile and wave, boys. smile and wave" (our fav. line from Madagascar) and that gets us through their visits.

as far as telling others to hand their troubles over to G-d, well, I agree, religion is a personal thing. unless you are asking for religious guidance, advice like that is less than useful.

and flora, you sound like a great mom. {{{happy hugs}}}

Thank you ladies for the complements. I adore all my children biological and otherwise. It isn't always easy not to pry but I realize that they are adults and must respect their boundaries. My mother did for me.
I am sure you both are wonderful mothers and someday will be fantastic mothers in law.
Blessings to all.
Regards
Flora.

Hi Patty

Strange, nobody has mentioned Kegals. They are pretty useless for reversing prolapse but do have some use in improving bladder control. They are also very useful for increasing awareness of what is happening in the vaginal area, and getting control over them. Getting a bit of muscle tone back can enhance your sexual experiences, as you can do different things with them while having sex. Just don't do too many of them a day, because these little muscles were never designed to pump iron, despite what many physiotherapists prescribe (though not all).

You can also tighten them during coitus by using Wholewoman principles. If you are on your back put a little pillow in your lumbar curve. This will tilt your pelvis forward which will in turn separate your ischial spines and increase the distance between your coccyx and your pubic bone. This all results in your pelvic floor muscles being stretched tight as a drum, well, sort of tighter anyway. ;-) It will also move pressure from your partner's erect penis from your perineum to your clitoris, which I reckon feels much nicer. (legs go to jelly at this point!).

When you are on top you can use the pelvic tilt to do the same thing, and it is much easier than finding the darned pillow!

But the first step is to bring those little muscles back to life and learn what you can do with them. So off to the physio with you!

Actually, Saving the Wholewoman, Christine Kent's book, has quite a lot about the pelvic floor muscles, and how they work, and this Forum has so much about these exercises (search "kegels" and "kegals"). If you trawl the Forum for these two terms you will pick up so much of what others have already learned.

Good luck on your exciting journey. I am sure a few new tricks will make bedtime better. It is amazing what old dogs can learn.

Cheers

Louise

Hi Patty

I am sure it will go OK. Once you have learnt the basics you will understand what you are trying to achieve. There seem to be a few different ways of teaching these exercises, some of which are more useful than others. Don't be disheartened if it all sounds like gobbldegook at first. Once you have studied Christine's book well, and familiarised yourself with the lie of the land in the vaginal area, you will be able to identify for yourself where many of these muscles are, and to become familiar with what they do. You will eventually be able to tell the difference in sensation between moving the different muscles, as will your partner. Don't be afraid to have a good feel around your vaginal area with your fingers.

It would be much easier to work out what is going on down there if pelvic floor muscles and our genitals were more visible and accessible than they are. But, they are not, and many of the diagrams you see the subject is lying on her back, so you have to be able to rotate it all in your head to figure out what is where. Good luck!

Don't expect miracles, just slow progress. You still have prolapses, and your organs will still slosh around a fair bit during coitus but, with practice, you will have a lot more control and sensation during sex. You will wish you had learnt years ago!

Cheers

Louise