Some Reflections

Submitted by Clonmacnoise on December 24, 2007 - 7:55am
Body: 

I haven't written for a long time, but before I say all this, I'd like to wish everyone a very merry Christmas and a new and fabulous New Year - a sagless, energy filled, up,up,up year.

Over the last month, I've been busier than I ever have been. It's been a kaleidescope of good and bad, and I want to share it with you because I've discovered that the feelings in our lives and even surrounding POP may well be closely related to how we endure this.

When Thanksgiving closed I knew that Christmas would be the usual thankless endless job to get through with the usual smile and enthusiasm. I delegated work at school with the idea I'd probably end up doing it all myself. I stopped yoga so that I had more time to do everyone else's work, fill in for missing faculty, do all the Christmas prep at home etc. My husband quit his job so the money end was tight; I asked him to do some stuff around school, but it never materialized. My beautiful 26 year old cat died and the POP was as bad as it had ever been. I really don't like the holidays; too much work and no support.

Then I decided to do something I'd never done. I decided to do one really big random act of kindness every single day for someone I loved or even liked. I can't tell you how that one act a day lightened my load, gave me energy and made the POP nearly not noticeable. I flew through the weeks of December enjoying nearly everything. School came together with ease and grace until the State came in and demanded all our health records be redone in two days or funding would end. That was a big detour, but we managed. The last week of school was filled with humor and fun and the tension and POP symptoms were gone. We made paper mache angels for every parent, had and art show for all the kids, took 40 children to the Nutcracker, had a big Santa party, and I even made homemade candy for the kids all month that we distributed through the day. I was so up, I don't think my feet hit the cement floor. I think I was so busy that my own difficulties were put aside. It was an enormous physical relief, and I truly felt nothing "down there" as I put in one 12 hour day after another.

So how's the POP now? It's there, but the energy and positivism that usually dies at this time of the year because of the stress and the exhaustion became the light of Christmas.

What I learned was the joy of getting outside myself. I fully intend to continue the acts of kindness during the year. I fully intend to make that a part of my daily routine. I won't be able to afford the bigger ones like giving someone a full time job every day, but little acts like taking a basket of cookies to a shut in or visiting an older couple who are lonely are just the ticket.

Blessings always to everyone reading this. May all your dreams be satisfied on Christmas Day, and may all your searches be as beautiful and rewarding as the promise of Christmas.

Love,

Judy

MeMyselfAndI

December 24, 2007 - 1:17pm

Beautiful post..

Merry Christmas and a wonderful sagless new year

I have noticed that some days its worse thsn others if I am stood up and stuff - Which annoys me especially at this time of year when everything is so busy busy busy

Went to do washing today (had 4 loads to do) Shut washing machine door - Door fell off - Great! Had to take it to mums and get her to help - argh

But all in all it looks like it will be a great Christmas...

Hoping everyone else has a wonderful one too...
Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

granolamom

December 24, 2007 - 2:29pm

thank you for sharing that
I think that counts as your act of kindness for today!
wishing you and everyone else here a very happy holiday

blythe

December 24, 2007 - 2:58pm

for sharing your December month with us. You have shown what it is to truly give. Have a wonderful Christmas and may 2008 bring you health and happiness.
Frankie x

louiseds

December 26, 2007 - 10:47pm

Hi Judy

I could not agree more. There is nothing quite like getting outside of yourself. The buzz of unsolicited giving and the things you find out about what others endure are great tonics for the soul.

Cheers

Louise

Clonmacnoise

December 26, 2007 - 11:34pm

Louise, Frankie, G-mom and Sue,

I think what I found most interesting was that as my spirits lifted, so did the prolapses. I found that the more I did, the better they got. I can't guess why, but even though I was really really tired on some days, I barely thought about it.

Does depression and a self focus contribute to a worsening? Is there a lapse in posture because of emotional slacking? It would be interesting to find out what others say.

I was always been a positive person until menopause, and I find with Crazypause finally lifted, my positive outlook is returning.

May all your prolapses be high!

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

granolamom

December 27, 2007 - 9:04am

I don't know, but I'm willing to believe it. a while back I saw this dr on tv, Dr Sarno? maybe?. he was speaking about back patients, about how they tend not to get better regardless of surgery, steroids, PT, whatever the medical prof throws at them. he believes that largely, a person with back pain can cure it by addressing underlying emotional issues.
ever since I heard him speak, I've been able to talk away my back pain (and I used to get it bad, like unable to get up from the floor, bad).

I know that I found my prolapse at a low point in my life, I kept saying 'I feel like I'm falling apart, like I'm just going to fall down'. and that's what happened, sort of. and yes, Judy, like you, when my spirits are high, so is my bladder. I do believe it is all connected.

Zelda

December 30, 2007 - 6:31pm

What could the psychosomatic roots of prolapse be ? I'll admit I've reflected
on this for myself quite a bit. I've worried that it may upset some of us a bit, though.
Noting that I often think of how broken I feel... fragile .. dependent. How is this prolapse
possibly serving me in the way that some end is met ? Some need I have that I
unconsciously am trying to get met by experiencing this physical symptom ?
Like Alice in Wonderland - Curiouser and curiouser.
This line of thinking looks deep into our psyches and I find That I get anxious- so I'm
guessing I may be shining light on things I've put energy towards burying ?

lovable = capable ??? lot's of baggage with that.

my dependence permanently binding my husband to me ? When my daily conscious fears
are that he will tire of the burden? Some perverted expression of low self-esteem that is
self-destructive ?

Fear of failure without a damned good excuse ?

I often think of weaving a tapestry as a metaphor for life. Threads going in different directions,
meet. The warp and weft of our lives. Sometimes the warp is hard to see. We build our lives
similarly. Sometimes I get so frustrated. I keep wanting to know why me ? I am fit and young
and healthy, I eat well, was excercising well (and happily) . I'm an ectomorph (?) Tall and thin by
the way. The only physical contribution could be the loss of an ovary as a teen may finally be
catching up with me. So I keep pulling this and that thread out and just not getting why I am
so afflicted. Which has me looking even deeper yet. I want MY life back. This feels like a detour
through some bizarre nightmare. I guess I have the hope and delusion that understanding
will bring my body back.

I agree Judy- that getting out of ourselves is key to happiness. I had a yank out of my pity pot
with the demands of Christmas. But my symptoms were still all over the map, if not worse
for all the time on my feet. I have been scrutinizing for patterns. About the only thing I really
see as a trigger consistently is standing on concrete.After an hour or two -it's hanging low.
I am noticing that I'm not panicking near as much when I do have bad days. Now I take the
direction and catch up on the computer or some such sedentary activity. I've been a bit
slow finding peace and acceptance with this. I'm not seeing an emotional link on a daily
basis, but I'm LOOKING.
Zelda

Clonmacnoise

December 30, 2007 - 10:27pm

Zelda,

I don't think it works backwards. I don't think one gets a prolapse because one is a nut case. I think once it's there, our state of mind allows us to either handle it well or not.

Going through crazypause left me unable to cope with much. Even a dead mouse would send me into a black depth of heart and soul. I cried over not having anything to cry about for God's sake!

Anyway, I think in the new year I will try very hard to do what I talked to my youngest daughter about today. She's dating someone from a Middle Eastern country with a truckload of expectations. I told her to stick to her American roots - be strong, independent, and free. "Don't ever compromise on those three things for anyone."

Strength comes from small increments of success. Independence comes from doing it ourselves, and freedom is a matter of inner light that truly understands the human heart. So we turn on the light all by ourselves and find success in it - one thing at a time; one moment at a time; one day at a time.

Much affection,

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

Zelda

December 30, 2007 - 10:55pm

LOL - I have never thought I was unstable .... Until now. This has so literally
yanked the rug out from under my feet. I am not overly proud of my reaction...
but I am gradually pulling my sanity back to center.
I suppose this was an injury to an area that was on the edge already from birthing a nearly 12
pound baby. Even if it was 12 years ago... I must have just over-done it here recently.
There is more to it though... like the odd atrophy of tissue in the general area.
This is a complex issue - no doubt about it. I'm so glad Christine is so dedicated to
educating and researching.
I'm 39 - a bit early for M-pause, but i have been warned it could come early in my case
because of the loss of an ovary years ago. I too am highly emotional these days, can cry over
the silliest of things... have attributed it to the all-consuming grief over my sudden losses.
My menses are still clockwork. But I'm bracing myself.
Your dear kitty... my heart goes out to you. I have been blessed with a few Great cats. My
grief at losing them was huge. The love is so pure and strong. i've never heard of a cat
living so long... It must have been a great love.
Take care dear,
Zelda

Clonmacnoise

December 31, 2007 - 7:33am

Dear Dear Zelda,

That's exactly how I felt about two- three years into the pause. I felt as if I was losing my mind. I had been a rock for so many years, rearing my children nearly by myself, getting by with zip money, doing a lot of charity work, getting involved with the life issue, going back to school, starting several schools, writing books, taking a job as a professional writer, working for the National Media Service, doing a lot of hand sewing, getting my children through crossroads, and then on a turn of a dime, I dissolved.

It's called peri-menopause and can last as much as 15 years. Mine started with an overwhelming fear of traffic lights. The idea of going through a traffic light so unnerved me I would dry heave. I avoided going out. I let my contacts die. I was sick for the first time in my life - bronchitis - and I seemed to put one foot in the grave. The harder I struggled, the harder it got. I got to the point I just wanted to hide in my house. When I had to do something like go to the doctor, I just puked for days, and on many occasions I stood in my kitchen with a box cutter in my hand thinking how easy it would be...

My first child was nine pounds, and I was in last stage labor for 13 hours. I weighed 100 pounds going into the pregnancy and 115 pounds coming home with my new baby. I weighed in at the hospital at 173 pounds. The last thing I heard before someone put me out was, "Oh, my God, give her gas." I tore across my buttocks giving birth. My last three children, 8.5;8.0;7.5 were born without so much as a labor pain. I could not have given birth to a 12 pound baby; I would have died, and at the time, I think the doctor would have let me die. He was an idiot. I bounced back from all my births in hours. I actually left the hospital with #2 12 hours after delivery and was shopping that same day. I resumed my regular work immediately. I was not blessed with a partner who understood much.

The funny thing about Crazypause is that the recovery is slow. I've been recovering since September of this year. It's like recovering from a terrible accident or illness. I return to more and more of what I as pre-peri-menopause every day and I remember what I was once like. I don't think I will ever be that person again with all the drive and ambition. My writing has changed, and I've become pragmatic in my life. I'm not nearly as anxiety driven, and I let a lot of things go I would have tended to years ago.

There are some good things coming out of menopause. There is a new kind of sweet calmness, an assuredness that I'm not dying right now, a carefree attitude that laughs at bad husbands and friends who do dumb things. I am a better mother to grown children than I was years ago, and old stories don't make me crazy; they just end up in my new novel in a funny way.

I have a new cat. I rescued him from a no kill shelter. He's a Siamese, very small, very playful. My husband calls him Arthur. I will miss Clon, but unlike during menopause, I realize he had a wonderful long life and it was his time. During peri-menopause I would have grieved to illness, and during menopause I would have wanted to join him.

One more thing...during the pauses, there are terrible reminders every day that creep into your mind about injustices levied at you over the years. You relive a lot of "he or she did that to me." It's overwhelming and defeating and makes you sick. Once out of it, these things don't bother you anymore.

Best medicine is to get outside if you can. Hike again. Visit friends, talk about how you are feeling. Try new things slowly, and don't beat yourself up. You have a right to feel as you do, to muse over your life and to finally, if this is menopause, to get over it anyway you can. You're a person with great value and great worth.

What's the weather like up there?

Love,

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

ATS

December 31, 2007 - 12:24pm

.... menopause sounded like it was just horrendous for you. Its funny how some women just sail through without any real problems and others feel like they have lost their mind.

I worry about this as when I suffered from PTSD after my son was born the symptoms did not really come out until I became pregnant again and I really thought my life was over. The anxiety was unbearable, panic attacks just terrifying and flashbacks haunted me and I can only assume that the pregnancy hormones were helping things along. I did take me quite awhile to gather the pieces of my life back together with both the help of medication and counselling. In the end the medication was not helping one bit and I found something called Thought Field Therapy which finally worked. I do still suffer with anxiety and I think that is now a part of my life and every now and then the panic creeps back in and I have to deal with it. I am not one for taking medication as that is one of the fears that developed as part of the PTSD and I find even taking vitamins makes me break out into a sweat so I have to find alternative ways of pushing through it.

Although I have dealt with the fears of my sons birth I still find day to day life can be a challenge and I never quite know how I am going to react to situations. Now I have POP to deal with and I haven't done the best job so far. LOTS of anxiety, tears, panic and morbid thoughts but I am having better days where I get angry with it and tell it its not going to ruin my life.

I can only hope that when menopause comes it does not send my anxiety into a spin. My nans had no problem with it and I will never know how my mum would have dealt with it as she had a hysterectomy and the doctors convinced her to take her ovaries and the result was she slumped immediately in to an anxiety type depression. She now has to wear the lowest dose HRT patch to keep her on an even keel. She has also developed some sort of prolapse but it doesn't bother her and she can't feel it but it worries me after what I have learned here. It is a shame as she didn't have any prolapse before the hyster and may never have developed one. If I had known what I know now I would have tried to talk her out of it but I know it was not an easy decision for her and she took 3 years to think it over. She was terribly anaemic and despite medication, vitamins and iron rich foods she still remained really anaemic and so very tired all the time and the bleeding never stopped. Had she been near menopause she would have waited it out but the doctors did tests and said she wasn't even showing signs of menopause and she had a uterus the size of a 3 month pregnancy due to very large fibroids.

I am going off subject now but just wanted to say WOW you really did have a hard time of it but I am soo glad you have come out the other side now.

Best wishes,

A

Clonmacnoise

December 31, 2007 - 4:18pm

A-

I had to look that one up. Thank you for sharing. I was fairly traumatized during my second pregnancy, but the birth was so quick - she was born 3 minutes after arriving at the hospital, I never worried again. Sorry to hear you had such troubles with your son.

For me there is other trauma. When my husband puts on a "dark" movie - one of those artsy 1950s things like Room at the Top, I get very uncomfortable. I can't watch any kind of abuse without some really strong reactions. I wonder...

A -- You might just sail through menopause with little or no problems. You can't fortune tell now. I think it helps to understand what's happening at all points of one's life and take each day as it comes. In my case, my doctor at the time couldn't diagnose poo in a dirty diaper, but he was the "family physician" and wore a halo, so the only culprit had to be me. I must be doing something wrong, or I was just crazy. Then, after years of suffering and problems, my husband said it all: "Well, it couldn't have been that bad, you went to work every day."

I think if I had been less traumatized, I would have found someone who would have said, "Judy, you are beginning menopause, and it looks like it might take on some strange turns. I want you to come see me every couple of months to see how this is progressing." Then it may have gone better. I just thought I was wacko and tough for me. Please don't be like me and play doggie in the cesspool. Be strong and outspoken. It's your life.

And now if I can be of help to anyone who might think they are suffering, I'm here. I've learned a lot about menopause. There are days life is good and days life is terrible. Like recovering from childbirth, it takes time and a positive outlook. Mostly, it's a tunnel with a light at one end. While you're in the tunnel, the light is a freight train, once out, it's God's love, so get out quick if you can.

As far as the PTSD goes, I am grieved you have to suffer through that. It's like a ghost following you around and poking you all the time. When I'm really in mental pain, I love to chase the ghosts away and rock a child. My grand children have been such a blessing.

I think you've gone through this POP thing well. I've read your posts and you are taking huge strides. Sure there are ups and downs and frustrations and anxieties. Good God, it's like your guts are falling out and everyone around you is smiling peacefully telling you that "It's OK that your guts are falling out." So once in a while when you scream, "My g.a.f.o," it's just a cry for help. That's why I love this site. I feel like I'm in the first aid room all the time, and help is right there.

My daughter, Kate, is anemic from bleeding too much at period time. She went on what she delightfully calls whore pills. Personally, I think it's funny. I hope I'm not offending anyone. Her anemia was so severe, she couldn't keep her eyes open during the day. Now on WP she's fine.

We women suffer a lot. I always thought we were superior to men because we could give birth, but the price we have to pay for the beauty of childbirth is as dangerous and disconcerting as the front line!

Happy New year to everyone reading.

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

ATS

December 31, 2007 - 5:20pm

... for pouring out of emotion and telling our stories.

PTSD short to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is just awful. People normally think of Soldiers and Shell Shock when referring to it but it can happen to anyone who has experienced a trauma. Why some people suffer with it and some do not even though they have both been through trauma is unknown, a bit like POP really!

My sons birth was like something out of a horror movie and I literally felt myself slipping away - its no wonder I have problems physically and emotionally. My panic attacks started right there in the hospital and because of that I was instilled with so many fears which all bring up panic in me. Although I have managed to tame them with Thought Field Therapy it seems it will never really truly leave me and I understand this is the case with PTSD. I startle VERY easily - my kids only have to make the slightest noise in the night and I can jump so bad its like a lightening bolt going through my body and when they are playing and bump in to me, again I jump like I have just been shocked. I can pinpoint exactly where these triggers come from and it is so frustrating that I cannot rid myself of these symptoms but I am afraid they are here to stay.

My first birth experience was just truly barbaric and I know I am not the only women to have suffered at the hands of the medical profession. I just wish they could all be made aware of the real damage they do to a woman both physically and emotionally. Awareness certainly needs to be raised in these areas.

This is another reason why I need to make the Whole Woman way work for me because the thought of a scalpel going any where near my nether regions is likely to tip me over the edge. Its also why I panic and freak out so badly with all these changes down there. I have never gotten over the disfigurement after my sons birth and sex has been a real issue for me. I guess you could say that although my husband is very lacking in sympathy and support in some areas he is still here despite not getting any! I don't suppose many men would be happy living in a no sex relationship. One day I will tackle this.

I think I have said more than I intended to and thank you for listening.

I hope I don't sound too messed up!

A

louiseds

December 31, 2007 - 11:21pm

Hi All

Just reading the last few posts made me realise how different we are at different times of our lives. I guess this springs from what is driving us at the time, whether it is the journey we take while finding a life partner while we are young women, the journey we take while herding our little children through to adulthood, jumping off the cliff after that very intense period into being nobody but ourselves again and morphing through crazypaws into cronehood etc. There are some things about us that don't change, but it is almost as if we are discretely different individuals at different ages.

Each age leaves its marks on us as we move to the next stage of our metamorphosis, and the scars from a previous life may make no sense to us in our new persona, merely confusing our new reality.

Cheers

Louise

granolamom

January 1, 2008 - 8:32am

I came to a similar realization reading these posts, louise
but instead of feeling as though the old scars are confusing a new reality, I've always felt that my old scars are really hard-earned lessons that wind up serving me well later on.

maybe because I had such a rough childhood I had to believe that that which didn't kill me really would make me stronger.

goldfinch1

January 1, 2008 - 9:07am

Granolamom:
I was ready to post thoughts on the phrase "That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger" when I saw that you already had. I keep that phrase in my mind, and use it when I face my fears. I know that there is a confidence from being able to say "I came through that". To me the scars represent strength.

I feel that undercurrent of strength in EVERY woman on this site. We are all strong woman who can face into the wind and meet our challenges. I am constantly amazed at the grace and beauty of everyone here and have learned invaluable life lessons from you all.

Thank you all for sharing. We are blessed to have each other and Christine.

Goldfinch

louiseds

January 1, 2008 - 6:56pm

I have the same philosophy on "what doesn't kill you...". I consciously feel much stronger and braver now I have survived 54 years of life's challenges.

Nevertheless, when big emotional reactions that come from a real situation in the past, slap you in the face during a current difficulty, they can really mess up the way you deal with the current situation. It is sometimes very difficult to trust your own judgement or your own sanity when all this static from the past clouds your thinking.

Cheers

Louise

Clonmacnoise

January 2, 2008 - 6:38am

Louise,

Sounds like you're reviewing. It's a part of the whole menopause tunnel experience. Your point of view becomes different during hormone swings. Everything seems to have new rules except you, and the past is ever in your mind. It's as if you want to reach back and correct what happened so that you can amend the moment. When you can't, it's as if you've taken a big shot to the head. Turning the other cheek only seems to hurt more. When you make your case, you are ignored by those who have well defended white towers. You feel lost and wounded. The whole world seems to be against you or at least ignoring you. I felt as if I was an inch tall and everyone around me had a fly swatter.

Later, praise the Lord, you will leave the pain behind and have a new much clearer vision that is much more reminiscent of youthful humor. I tried to hurry this up with HRT - doesn't work - it's like putting a bandaid on a broken arm.

It's a rough go now, and the clouds do part, and things will get better even though it might be difficult to see that now. I began to go quiet the last six months or so, and I set a new precedent at home, but the only thing it earned me was a total disregard for my point of view - makes the ivory tower syndrome work even better.

Pax with an A,

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

louiseds

January 2, 2008 - 7:35am

Hi Judy

It's strange you should say that, especially the last half of the first paragraph. Strangely, I have felt over the last year or so that I may as well not exist for much of the time. I have come to the rather hilarious conclusion that I am persona non grata at my church, where I am prone to calling for change and doing things in new ways, and reaching out to the community. The powers that be just ignore me, and continue in their old ways, white anting my projects, taking over my jobs and not including me in decisions. All I can do is separate myself from them in order to maintain my faith in God and prevent me from biting back hard. At home I feel like I am a kind of invisible, wandering cleaner upper who has no authority in domestic matters, and I feel belittled for trying to get the rest of the family to maintain some order in the way we do things. It is a confusing home to live in at the moment, with a couple of grown children living here part time, confusing the power dynamic somewhat, just at a time when I want to move on, clean up, clean out, and live simpler. The clutter and unfinished paperwork grows by the day and I just cannot find the energy to make inroads into it.

This doesn't sound like my normal voice, I know, but it is a reality for me at the moment. Maybe that is why I spend so much time here, where I know I can contribute something to others who are feeling a darned sight more vulnerable than I am. It helps me maintain some sense of being able to guide others where I have been and, though I hesitate to say it, feel appreciated, and competent.

This is not meant to be my sob story. It is just the way it is at the moment. Not feeling particularly bad, but not particularly good either. Just looking for the right direction to take I guess. I pray that it is hormonal, because if it is not I think I am in for some dark times ahead. But I am sure I have survived worse, and will survive worse again in the future. It is just a bit hard to visualise it being any different.

The harking back to the past bit though, is more about how we can so easily be taken straight back to childhood or relationships from the past, in difficult situations, and experience emotional reactions that are only relevant to those past situations, and only serve to sabotage our current relationships. Learning from cognitive behaviour therapy how to decode and disempower these things from the past has enabled me to deal with difficult situations a lot better these last few years, and come out of them less wounded than I would formerly have been. I can now see that it is not always me who is at fault when there is a conflict. Now *that has been a valuable discovery*.

I don't feel like I am disappearing, simply that I am not heard, and I am sure some of that is because people don't want to hear some of the uncomfortable things I have to say. I may also talk total bulls#*t at times, so I can hardly blame them!! I feel quite rock solid where I am, but just not very effective as a person. Thankyou for pointing out your similar experience. It may just pass by itself as you say, and that is a happy thought, as I had not really considered that possibility.

To put it in a different picture. I feel a little like a pupa, a hard little brown thing that has nothing to do all day except trying to look unpalatable, so a big bird doesn't gobble me up, all the time growing and changing on the inside from a caterpillar to a butterfly, but unable to actually accomplish anything outside of myself until the pupa cracks open and allows me to come out and unfold my wings. Gone will be the large number of sticky feet and the graceful gait, the ravenous appetite and the irritating hairs. In their place will be other things that will serve me well in this new form of being. It is just another form of metamorphosis really. Just like one of my very favourite children's books, The Very Hungry Caterpillar by Eric Carl(?).

Thankyou Judy.

Louise

Clonmacnoise

January 2, 2008 - 8:43am

Louise,

Over the last few months, you've been a big inspiration to me. Your kind words on this site has really gotten me through the last stages of a serious mental disability caused by CP (Crazypause).

When I joined this list last April, my voice mimicked your voice in your last post. If you re-read some of my first posts, you can see the spiritual degradation and lost quality. You held me up when nobody else could.

As a writer, I can read a lot in the voice of the written word. Please know that I have visited your place - unhappily - for a long time. It probably is hormones.

Ditto on the church deal. I was all but excommunicated by a rat-bastard bishop for telling him off, and I have been shunned by my parish ever since. It broke my heart and caused my family to flee from the church. Now my attitude is OOPS!

Ditto on the home front. I don't have a voice here at home - I never have. My husband has the best defended white tower ever built. I am the maid and cook who is tolerated by the tower creature provided I never raise my voice, point out a flaw or suggest something that contradicts the status quo. For years I tried every possible avenue for admittance to the tower because I needed some semblance of help during the CP years, but now I realize that it's a nowhere place and there aren't any doors. I'm the success story in the family, and I need to enjoy that when nobody is looking - a little like pregnancy.

Ditto on the grown kids at home thing. Grown kids are wonderful provided they are not in your home. The criticism is just too hard to take. I have one child at home now, 22, and one who visits occasionally, and after a few hours with them, I have to apply emotional agents like cocktails to fend off the brutal "affection" they are so glad to offer.

Because of hormone shifts, all of these things are very painful much like a wound someone takes a hammer to. When the hormones balance out again, the pain does seem to vanish, and a HO HUM seems to replace it. I am sure it's God's blessing on those of us who are faithful.

My only suggestion to you is writing. You write beautifully, Louise. You are very talented, and it would help to be able to get feelings out without voicing them. No matter what seems to be the right thing to say, it also seems to further irritate those around us at this time. That's why I write novels. And yes, I did write about the RB bishop and his smarmy crew, and the book is at a publishers right now.

I'm writing a book called Romancing Rachel right now that has a lot of the domestic stuff in it. I find it a real catharsis. I took my voice away several years ago, and my at home deal is to "turn the other cheek." Usually when I do this, I get punished with silence because turning the other cheek has some retaliatory aspect I'm not allowed to do either.

What I have learned is that husbands of many years have expectations that involve ONLY the present. They don't want to hear about the past or about past hurts. It really never helps. How could they be wrong anyway? And grown children will go to a man's defense first because they either feel sorry for him, or they know sooner than later they will have to deal with them, and men never forget - like elephants.

Buy a box for your paperwork and cover it with a tight fitting lid. At least it will all be together and then shove it under some piece of furniture, then go out for a walk.

At church, quite frankly, it's a small pond, and someone is always trying to shoot the biggest duck. You're probably a big duck who is in the way of small pond politics. Visibility is important to us, and taking that away is about as painful as anything I could think of.

For right now, if you can keep your voice to a surprising curiosity, someone might ask you "What are you thinking," and then... I'm dreaming.

Please know that there are so many things you do for me and for so many of us here at WW. Don't throw your real pearls before real swine.

I love you,

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

granolamom

January 2, 2008 - 12:23pm

I've got no experience with CP, and I'm grateful to be learning in advance from all of you here.
I just wanted to say something about adult children. I was not a very loving or supportive dd. I can go on and on about the injustices done to me by my parents, but that's not my point. what I want you to know, louise, judy, and anyone else here who's got children in their 20's who are hurtful, is that you can remain hopeful that it may change. somewhere in my later 20's, maybe I was older or maybe that I was now a 'real mom' with a crew of my own, I made the decision to be more generous of spirit with my mother.
we are not buddies, our personalities are so different that we used to barely tolerate one another. but I can honestly say that now we can enjoy one another's company.
I am watching my younger siblings come to that place too, as they reach 30.
maybe 20's are the new adolescence?

Zelda

January 2, 2008 - 12:39pm

I want to share a gift I was given that I am so excited about . A friend I hadn't seen in some time
mentioned this fabulous and funny marriage seminar he and his wife attended. After I told him
what my H and I have been through this past year. I nodded and out the other ear it flew. Well
bless him, he sent it to us in the mail.
It's called "Love and Respect", (There is a website too, same name and .com) This man is a Pastor
and well-educated too, He's hilarious and in all my "relationship" research I have never felt the epifany,
The AHH-HAH ! of how to be happy with these extra-terrestial Men, or to really understand what's
GOING ON IN THERE !
The breakthrough feelings and conversations my husband and I are having has chased a lot of my darkest
clouds away !!!! I'm reading the same sadness and resignation nearly every woman I know expresses,
in between the lines of your posts here. You have both been married for years and yet if pressed, would
you admit to feeling that your needs for love and understanding from your husband are not really being met?
Do you struggle with the pain of feeling loneliness within your marriage ? Do you feel he stonewalls rather
than give you the face to face contact you crave ? It is all explained so beautifully by this funny wise man
of God.
I read your experiences with your churches and identify with the sentiments... Do not make ripples in
Status Quo, don't ask questions, don't think outside the box. I do not like the conservatism, the arrogance
that only believers go to Heaven, hence they are closer to God than you are, that condescending hand UP.
I used to throw the Bible out right along with with that whole Missionary Christian. I don't think Jesus
would condone Church and the vast corruptions that have been done in the name of Religion. But I do
understand the desire to be part of a community and all that goes with it. You're a spicy adventurous
woman Louiseds. It surprises me not an iota, that you would suffer these judgements for your creativity,
and earthiness. God did not want us prude or puritanical. But most of all they fear your strength and independent
thinking. You are both suffering a modern day witch trial. I'm utterly certain .
Gotta go - power has to go off -I'll be back
Zelda

Zelda

January 2, 2008 - 1:19pm

you should both start your OWN houses of worship that are as open
house as Jesus would have led. Maybe , it's a sign from God. Those
church's leaderships were small power hungry sinners, because a wise
Pastor would celebrate the strength in his flock. A tyrant is threatened.
And Judy you're right in there too. I didn't have time to edit it a bit.
And then there is just the distance between a Male leader and a wise Woman.
There may have been a few wires crossed.
Just my thoughts, and the cool thing is no one can stone me for sharing them
here.
Thankyou for the nitty gritty on the emotional roller-coaster of your
experiences as an aging Woman, how clearly I see the growth in your spirits
as you plodded through the mine fields. I take comfort in the fact that I too
am a better person for the pains and hard lessons of the past decade, and
that it shall only continue through the time I have left in this life. I'm getting a
clearer sense of my direction, all the more from what you've shared. You've given me
role-models in a life that has not had any that were worth much in the end.
My Mother and GM are Man-haters, my Father a Woman- fearer.
I gotta go ... so an abrupt, Bye!
Zelda

elleninala

January 2, 2008 - 4:06pm

What really goes on in churches and at home is something else.

After struggling mightily for years to get the church to “do something” about all the actual injustice and divisions in the world, rather than worrying all the time about who was sleeping with whom, I finally gave it up. I am sort of allergic now to a setting where a man (or a woman) gets up in front of a group every week and has his say. Basically the one I was most involved in was run like a family business. Once I “got” that it all made better sense. Even the pastor was just a hired hand.

Sometimes what a married relationship really is is a balance of fear. This was the nature of my parents’ marriage, I think. At first look it seemed that dad held all the power, and in some senses he did. I think that my mothers’ decades of suffering from rheumatoid arthritis had to be related to the fact that all her movement was limited -- intellectual and spiritual as well as physical. She was quite a quilter in her later years but her quilts are so formulaic that although I have a number of them I cannot display one for very long. I cannot see in them any flow, creativity, joy, or spontaneity.

On the other hand, my dad also revolved around my mother and his duty to her. Her displeasure, though rarely given voice, was dreaded.

My husband’s parents’ marriage was in the same vein.

We struggle now to come to a different sort of balance, one that is based on trust rather than fear. We succeed at some times better than at others. At least we are both conscious of what we’re up against, and want something much better. In that I feel very fortunate.

Ellen

Christine

January 2, 2008 - 10:21pm

Dear Ones,

I entirely missed the women’s movement of the late 1970s having been ensconced in a back-to-the-woods life with a husband and two babies. Years later and still recovering from the extreme mind-**** of having been the isolated wife of a wounded and deeply disturbed Vietnam War veteran (and no mother to go home to!) I felt certain that had I the support and perspective of women I would’ve survived those years much better than I did.

Today is so very different – a loving and sane husband who gets women and relationships. Yet, I’m feeling this incredible sense of fulfillment in learning from and sharing with all of you masterful women. Time disappears and little pieces of life’s puzzles fall into place for me every time one of these intense threads gets started. Thank you with all my heart!

Louise, I just want to wrap my arms around you and give you a big hug! Quite frankly, I giggle when I imagine you as part of an uptight congregation…sort of an Australian Maria von Trapp! IMHO it’s a pity that our primeval need for spirituality and fellowship has to be met by religion.

Anyway…I’m fast on the trail of unraveling an awesome hormone mystery and will try to keep you posted along the way. I plan to spend the next few months burrowed in the medical library but will come up for air every now and then to say hello.

*Smack!* (that’s a kiss) to all of you,

Christine

Aussie Soul Sister

August 26, 2013 - 3:17am

The evolving woman through her different "ages, & stages",
social commentary,
finding a way to give - thanks Clonmacnoise
invisibilty...
& metamorphosis like a butterfly...thanks for that imagery, Louise...
& many other Pearls of Wisdom & insight,
I will need to read over....thanks to all

Best wishes
Aussie Soul Sister

Surviving60

August 26, 2013 - 5:06am

Thanks Soul Sis for bringing this one to the top. Not a quick read - I'll be back. - Surviving