How to get through to husbands

That's for sure. I'm a bit stumped as to how you get through what sounds like his denial.
My guess though, is time will do it. Men absorb, adapt and integrate new information
'bout 100 X slower than us, esp. the big stuff.
He may have his own denial, grief and loss to contend with.
Stick to your instincts of what you can and can't do. Build upon what you can do with him
and for him, and hopefully he'll come around and be valiant - and understanding, or at the very
least respectful. It's tough when a man judges your reality. I guess I'm finding that this new
challenge with my prolapse is bringing my husband and I closer on so many levels. Sex has also
become this wonderful affirming glue and I'm convinced it "stimulates" circulation and healing and
- well - I KNOW it's great for his disposition.
I know when we get resentful it seems like the hardest thing to do. I've just found it creates
positive momentum, melts power struggles, and plain old comforts. There is no one on the planet I
want to be as close to ... that's for sure. Good Luck dear.
Zelda

Well said Zelda.

I think men really have no idea what they are like or why they are like they are. We women are probably not a lot better at self awareness, or at least expressing it. I think the WW Forum women are at least trying to explore who we are, and why. That's what brings us here.

I really think that good sex is affirming for both partners. Actually even mediocre sex is affirming for both partners as it is a giving and receiving thing, a gift if you like. As long as both partners do give some, and as long as there is respect on both sides it truly is an experience that has no parallel. ie you can't get much closer to each other physically, and that always leaves a door open to getting closer to each other in other ways as well.

Here's a gross generalisation to play with. I think any sex at all is a basic and conscious need for men, and they find intimacy through it. However I think that for women, intimacy is the basic conscious need, and we discover and experience sex via it (helped along by a little lust!!). An intimate partnership is not intimate if there is no sex, because it opens the door to intimacy for both, ie for two to become one. Sex is the key.

For Anita, maybe there is somebody else influencing DH's attitude towards your prolapses, maybe another significant woman in his life, like a relative who thinks the sun shines out of his @%#& and cares for him very much, and wants to see him happy, so shifts the blame for his discontent to his 'hypochondriac' wife.

I think people who have seen doctors fail to diagnose, or people who have experienced misdiagnosis or wrong treatment for a medical condition that doctors are supposed to fix, are the only people who seriously doubt doctors. It is a space that you come to from personal experience, and to expect anybody else to take it on board is a bit much.

Of course, you also receive a great deal of support from us here at WW, which he possibly thinks is leading you up the garden path and 'away from the opinions of well-respected doctors'.

It is so hard to read people's motivations. Perhaps all you can really deal with is the reality that presents itself, and pray for enlightenment for DH. Miracles happen. I have experienced one, four years ago walking out on a longterm unhealthy marriage that I am still convinced was slowly killing me, and I am now back married to the same man who is quite different as a result my bailing out, and his miraculous discovery and understanding the bad things that were happening for the first 25 years. Life is good, and I pinch myself every day, as I still don't quite believe it.

Anita, if you have email activated you might try asking if there is a Member in your part of the world who could recommend *by private email* an aware family doctor, gyno, midwife or other professional who would examine you standing and confirm your self-diagnosis. You know what is wrong. All you need is somebody with letters after their name to confirm it.

Keep it up, both of you. Just pray and perservere.

Cheers

Louise

Hi Anita,
I have to be honest and say I remembered and was a bit worried by a recent post that admitted you weren't
really having any sex... so when I saw this post I thought about the way relationships have two sides,
and what could "motivate" him to be dismissive ? Not having sex IS a huge thing for the guys...

Which in turn made me think of my past.
I've been remembering dynamics that were going on between my husband and I
when the kids were still little-ish. I'm remembering feeling tired and worn from spending
the whole day meeting everyone else's needs. I remember NOT feeling sexy, and feeling like his
NEEDS weren't even that personal of a thing. I remember feeling like MY needs had been
neglected for so long that I wasn't even sure what "they" were anymore ! I remember finding
ways to avoid "servicing" him. Reading to the kids and this and that, so by the time I was in bed he
was likely sleeping. I felt scornful and contemptuous. What about ME ? The brute ! That Selfish Bastard !

We may not have much in common and I'm not trying to assume we do , but I want you to know I
have compassion for some of this "with-holding" reality. Loiused expands on what and why Men need and
the joy of closeness. But HOW the hell do you get there when power struggles stalemate, and you don't even
Want to ?
What turns women on is emotional intimacy. A foreign language for Men, but they can fake it by
listening without solving. I've learned to say things like "I don't want you to solve this, I just want you to
know where I'm at..." , "When I talk to you about this , it helps me process, helps me feel witnessed,
helps me feel heard.... keeps me from feeling like I'm all alone." My husband can patiently listen and
do no more than grunt and I'll often feel better for having just been heard, which I've also told him.

Marriage is our most complicated challenge, I believe. I had absolutely no healthy reality checks.
My life had to completely fall apart before I could do the "surgery" and cut out the malignancies in MY
attitudes and MY priorities. For SOOOO long I was pretty acutely aware of HIS shortcomings !!!
I had looked closer at my own faults with some humility. I was feeling self-righteous, IF and WHEN he met
my needs THEN I would be motivated to meet his... And they do need, what's frusterating and takes some
real maturity is giving what they need IN SPITE of the fact that you are quite certain that your needs are
not being met !!! ( I will add here that Men show their Love in "other" ways so look for the little things he
DOES and ACKNOWLEDGE)
I wish that merely sharing this could prevent similar misery for others... but I know the nature of hard
lessons, they Must be painFULL to be fully realized. I want you to really think about how much stronger
you are as a couple, anything that gets in the way of that NEEDS to be addressed.
It sounds like emotional blackmail ... BUT -It's just that Men Will walk away, like women, if they don't get
their NEEDS met. So if you're looking for unconditional love like I was ? It only goes so far... before the Mother
of your kids playmate starts meeting THAT need of his. ( Yes - personally relevant.)
I hope I haven't overstepped and am in NO way blaming or shaming. But I'm not holding much back either. If I
could have figured out how to send you a personal email I would have. I know many couples experience a stage of
this type in their marriage. Recognize this AND move on. DON'T let it snowball and put distance between you.
I'm sorry if I'm kind of an Ass in my delivery - but I like you, and would love to save you ANY misery I could.
I've probably said enough.
Hugs,
Zelda

I can see two sides of this. it is hard to be the one suffering, but it is also hard to be the 'well' one who is also suffering but not allowed to. kwim?

maybe, on the good days, let him know how good you feel. I know I tend to tune out when my dh complains often (I know, its not nice of me, I'm just being honest here). and he gets sick frequently whereas I am rarely ill. so it gets to a point sometimes where I feel like, ok I get it, youre not feeling up to having a good time today. again. I try not to say that, or even let him know how I feel, because you're right, its a nasty way to treat your spouse.

{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}

hoping tomorrow's a better day

but WHAT does POP stand for ?
and is dh -dear husband ?
and what the heck is kwim ?
sorry to be obtuse ! I'm surviving on context, but never SURE.
Zelda

No you're not. We're just lazy on a keyboard.

but WHAT does POP stand for ? pelvic organ prolapse
and is dh -dear husband ? yep
and what the heck is kwim ? know what I mean?
sorry to be obtuse ! I'm surviving on context, but never SURE.

L

It all ends too soon but while we are here we have to do the best we can with what we have and try to make the best of everything.
My darling husband passed away just after Christmas. He didn't know who I was most of the time but at least I could visit and talk to him. Once in a while I would get a glimpse of the way he used to be.
He had dementia. It is a terrible disease that ravages the mind and body. The onset is hell on the patient and the family. When I realized that it was not reversible and had to accept his condition I at least had the chance to visit and all past resentments melted away.
So ladies give your husbands a big hug and tell them you love. I wish I could one more time.
Take care.
Regards,
Flora

Oh Flora

Words fail me. Sometimes we just need to be brought back to earth. I'm so sorry you have had this heartbreak. I guess you are experiencing a whole heap of different emotions all at the same time right now. Thankyou so much for sharing this bit of you with us.

Best wishes

Louise

God bless you, Flora! I am so sorry to hear this news but appreciate your sharing this important life event with us. Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Thank you also for reminding us that life gives so little time to love well.

You are a treasure to our community, Flora!

Love from Christine

thank you for sharing that, and reminding me to appreciate what I have.
I continue to learn so much from you
{{{{mama-flora}}}}

Give him a big hug when I see him and be very specific about how much I love him.

Anita- maybe you need a trick. Yes I said trick. They work for me.

My husband and I are on opposite sleeping schedules - he's a morning person and I like to stay up late- we are awful together in the morning b/c I want to be left alone and he wants to hang out- and at night he falls asleep and I feel like I don't get heard- (by the way- now you know why afternoons work for us lol)-
so our trick is for him to put his arms around me when I come to bed (I wake him up for this- he's a saint)and tell me that he loves me and that he loves my bod and then it sometimes escalataes and othertimes he falls back asleep but no matter what happens I feel so much better and more connected just hearing those words. It takes practice- and it is a habit- and half the time it sounds slurred and insincere- but it works for us.

Sometimes changing a little thing can have a huge impact on the bigger picture.

Hey my new years resolution was to stop talking about my POP with my husband. It is good- I probably won't last-but for now it is good.

There is no return to center as quick and sure as realizing
HOW MUCH CAN BE LOST.

I am so sorry for your loss and the painful process.
I am so grateful you shared this, as it's a tremendous
reality check for all we take for granted.
I am glad you share your wisdom and insights with us,
I have become quite fond of your voice and read your posts with
affection and awareness of what a cool woman you are and
how blessed we are to have you here.

There is a circle of us with our arms around you and tears in our
eyes and love in our hearts.
Zelda

Hi A-

I feel you- I just got mad last night at my dh for having selective memory when it comes to the POP. I think men are trained to fix and solve and make it: DO, DO, DO... and so it is hard for them (most, but not all) to innately understand the feminine quality of being- BE, BE, BE. And so many of us women are so far removed from our feminine pulses that we feel GUILTY if we are not DOING, DOING, DOING -part of what has gotten us into trouble with our DP (dear prolapse) in the first place, no?

The other night, after the kids were alseep, my husband wanted me to be up and cleaning and putting away in the house with him. And I said NO- I need to rest. WOW- was that a PARADIGM shift for me (and him!). No one is ever going to give us permission to take time to rest, to heal, to BE- we gotta own it- I'm learning.

One thing that has helped me a lot is to do a mediation called the Heart Room Meditation (comes from my Feng Shui studies/ work) And in its simplest form: go into a space that is yours- safe and beautiful- a space that you consider your heart room. Then imagine a door and the person you are wanting to communicate with is on the other side and they knock and you invite them in. Once they come in, you talk with them about your feelings, thoughts, etc. When you are done sharing with this person and feel it is time for them to leave, you walk them to the door and thank them for coming. Come out of your heart room and mediation when ready.

It sounds so simple, but others and myself have had amazing experiences with this. It's almost like being able to reach someone on the heart/soul level and going around the ego.

May tomorrow bring us all more healing, joy, and lightness, and the ability to love more deeply,
Kimo

that's a great idea. dh and I are like that too, he loves to be in bed by 9 & up at 5, I can stay up happily till 2, but I'm a grouch in the morning. I wish afternoons worked for us, HOW do you find time with little ones underfoot?
I think you're 'trick' would be a good thing for us as well, might give it a try.
thanks for the idea.

I also stopped talking about my POP with dh, its a good thing. on bad days I might just say 'I'm feeling prolapse-y' and he tries to pick up some slack so I can get off my feet a bit. other than that, I keep it to myself.

Thank you so much for your outpouring of sympathy and love. I can feel it and I too have tears in my eyes when I read your heartfelt replies.
My emotions are very mixed but I have also had a great outpouring of love from all my kids (biological - the same ones I went through all the rebellions and harsh words with when they were growing up,)
and all the other kids I have been fortunate enough to have in my life. They have been a tower of strenghth for me.
There are many things to do before the healing is complete but I have my rescue cats for company. To be quite honest I think they are rescuing me.
Life goes on and a new chapter begins for me. I will embrace it whatever it brings.
Thank you again with all my heart and God bless you all.
Love,
Flora

My deepest sympathy to you on your loss. God Bless you and your family.

Hi All Mums of Little Kids

This is just to say that I think while our kids are little, that feeling of "Not now, I need some space and time to myself after looking after everybody else all day" does pass. I think it is a form of contraception, possibly connected with prolactin (the mothering hormone) in come way??? It is designed to stop our bodies from trying to fall pregnant while our littlies need us so much.

They do grow up and eventually know that a closed/locked bedroom door means that "Mummy and Daddy are loving each other in that very special man woman way and don't want to do anything else right now. Ring 000 if it is an emergency, or wait and they will eventually come out."

Eventually they grow up too and their bedroom door gets locked as well!

When they leave home it is back to arranging your lovelife wherever and whenever you like! Just remember to keep practising, without enthusiasm if necessary while our kids are little, so you don't forget how to do it. It is a very important way of saying "I still love you" (in the same way as washing somebody else's undies, and washing up).

Cheers

Louise