Good Days/Bad Days

Stay with that feeling, Anita. EXPECT to keep feeling well! When you start to drift into the fear of what will be tomorrow, shift back to how you feel TODAY.

Hi Anita

Wow, you had a good one! Keep those baggy trousers and sweater handy. They may be your lucky clothes! Treasure these good days. And work out some more comfy clothes for when your baggy trousers and sweater are in the wash. Sure, this next day may be different, but it may not be different; it may also be good. Keep doing WW things, and affirm the good things you do, and the good thoughts that you have.

Cheers

:-)

Louise

My husband is an idiot.

OR

Totally unconscious.

No Valentine , or even acknowledgement . Or even the return of my heart felt hug. He just kept scrubbing and ignored it.
Then he tells me I have to finish a base before tomorrow.
Then he goes back to his house and didn't argue any plan For the evening being spent together.
I am stunned and back to square one.
He's Not with me for Love, but convenience. It's REAL hard to not interpret this.
He is my biggest weakness I'm thinking. Wish I didn't crave his Love like I do.
I don't know how to harden my heart, but me thinks I must.
Zelda

Zelda,

My heart grieves for you because I've been there many times. My husband once announced that he didn't celebrate holidays brought to you by greeting cards. Never a gift, never a hug, never even a mention of the day. What to do?

My kids were spread out fourteen years, so I just buried myself in my work and my children. I tried not to cry. I tried not to be disappointed, but I was. And every year I would dutifully buy him a gift and he would accept it. Talk about battle scars! If marriage blows create battle scars, then I should look like I've been put through the blender and have come out in gelatinous ooze!

We were driving back from Texas once on Mother's Day - also a holiday he refused to celebrate. He listened to a radio talk show that called non-MD celebrators everything but good. He took it to heart, and I started to be recognized on MD after nearly 30 years.

I never hardened my heart. Like you, dear dear Zelda, the one thing I always wanted was for my husband to love me. I have loved him since I was 17, and I always will. I worked so hard to win his approval, his respect, his love and until recently, I never felt I had achieved anything.

I can't tell you what made things change, but one thing I did do very early in the relationship was to become very independent. I've gone about my life as if I'm responsible for everything. I do all the work that needs to be done, and I assume no one else is going to help. That way at least the work is done. After so many years, it's natural to simply do it first. The result is that my children have a great respect for me and that means the world to me.

I do think, however, that men regard real independence as a challenge. Dependence is often frightening to a man because it makes him responsible, and a lot of men hate that. Independence, on the other hand, is a double edged sword. Independence says, I don't need you, and that let's him off the hook, but it also means he has no control.

If I have to do the work and rely on myself, then I can do pretty much what I want without discussing it with him. So when I put the 30 grand room on the house or decided to go to college, or decided to build a school, he had no say.

As for holidays, fights, and other forgotten moments, I now - couldn't afford it years ago - just buy myself something I want and spend a lot of money on it. Last quarrel, my daughter got a fantastic camera and a developer - lucky her - unlucky him.

During this last week, I've gotten a lot of good stuff from my husband. He couldn't have done that 30 years ago. I will never know why, but I attribute his inability to be gracious all those years as a character flaw - his not mine.

I wish you that sense of joy that comes from knowing you are a wonderful brilliant woman no matter how he acts, what he does, what he says. Your courage, your dignity, your resolve to respond positively to what amounts to crushing problems far outweigh anything he could say or do.

Pax for you; pox for him.

Judy

Good reply Judy. Whether character flaws are real in themselves or just manifest stubbornness, or the fact that they just don't get it, doesn't matter a fig.

It is how you respond to the feelings his action or inaction stir in you that will make a difference in your life. If you want to be with him Zelda, I think you will just have to work around him, and in spite of him, as Judy says. Make your own life alongside his. All swords are twin-edged. It is just a matter of which sword you choose. No, bad metaphor! There are advantages and disadvantages to every option. No option is absolutely the best, or will work the best.

You have no control over him, only over yourself. So that is the only direction you can go.

Cheers

Louise

Girl ! Did I need that.
I Too am an awesome warm and generous Woman ! Men are DUMB.
I'm going to toodle off to bed with a video. Sans Man.
But I got a Looover of a Kitty and he's So in love with me and me with him... he deserves my Valentine evening
and hasn't been feeling well lately so I've made peace with my evening. We often gaze deep into each other's eyes.
And I KNOW how much he loves me.
stupid stooopid man.
I swear you guys "care" way more about me than my own H. Genuine care notices. Genuine care wants to comfort.
Genuine care Celebrates !
Big mushy Valentines hugs to all you sister warriors, I celebrate knowing you !!!!!!!
Zelda

I am not going to suffer with this.
The dummy missed out, His problem not mine.
I will not let him have that power over me.
I got a rose from my best GF and had a good day
without his affection. It just troubles me that he would
be so apathetic when he's always gone through the motions every other year.
It sends me a message. Quite a clear one.
Zelda

My husband doesn't acknowledge these holidays either...he thinks they are silly. He prefers spontaneity.
BUT, he does like romance....he LOVES a good sunset, cooking a gourmet meal, dancing together...so I am ok with it. Especially because he knows that I am not expecting anything.

Ooooo Stella, you lucky duck you.

I did receive five lovely pink rosebuds with assorted greenery from DH. I hate pink, and the rosebuds had no rose perfume, but smelled a bit like fresh rolly tobacco, which was not unpleasant, but in my opinion roses without perfume are a copout. However, giving flowers is my DH's way of saying "I love you", and I now know, after 29 years, that he does love me deeply, from other things that have happened. The rosebuds are now sitting proudly in a vase in the kitchen.

Zelda, don't assume (if you are) that he doesn't love you just because he doesn't do anything that makes you think, "Yep, he does love me!" There will be things he does that indicate to him that he loves you, but you probably don't know what they are, and even if you did, they probably wouldn't mean to you that he loves you, anyway. Men speak quite different languages from our femaletalk, and I'll be stuffed if I can work them out. If he didn't love you he could be playing some silly game that is shooting himself in the foot, or playing some game he doesn't understand. The former is folly, and the latter just doesn't make sense to me, but I am a girl, so what would I know?

Also, I think their experiences from childhood of feeling loved have a lot to do with how they love as adults. eg, somebody who could only get attention as a child by doing something naughty, that got their parents yelling at them, might only feel loved when they are being yelled at as an adult. Is that setting yourself up for a fight with your lover every night, or not? Or if physical affection was never a part of feeling loved as a child, how can a person respond positively to a genuine,loving hug?

I found the book,The Five Languages of Love, very intereesting, and could identify with all five ways of expressing love, but DH didn't mention any of them when I asked him what makes him feel loved, nor could he relate to feeling loved if I did any of them. He was way out there left outfield with another completely different way of feeling loved, which I wouldn't ever have guessed. I think it came from childhood experiences. So you never can tell. Do you know what makes DH feel loved, ie how does he intuit that you love him, and does he know what makes you feel loved?

Cheers

Louise

Louise and Anita,

I think you are so right to say men are different creatures. Right from the beginning as boys they are so different from the girls. I see the little boys in my care just brush off so much as not important. You can see the man emerging, and it's so interesting.

There is a safety zone for men that allows them to hide the soft spots because the soft spots are so vulnerable. It allows them not to have to respond to this and that, because this and that is too likely to bring out feelings they can't manage. Unfortunately, they get away with not doing a lot of things that would make our lives so much better, and we allow it.

Because I will go the extra mile to do the things my husband wants me to do, I kinda expect him to go at least a little of the extra mile for me. As an older man of 66, he is learning - SO DON'T GIVE UP HOPE.

Last night he was really sick when he came home from work and he had a cookie in his hand. "Here's your valentine," he said. Where he got the cookie, I don't know, but it was sweet. He had called earlier to say he was miserable and not to make a fuss over dinner. We've had two ice storms so it's been really cold and getting around has been tough. I didn't do anything at all, and he spend the evening eating junk which reminded me that there is something almost child like about him.

People don't really change after 10. They are mostly formed then, so ask about husbands as children. It might clue us into why their behavior as adults is what it is.

Of course it's the same with us. Who were we at 10 and what did we expect or want or need.

Questions, questions, questions,

Judy

Hi Judy

A couple of other thoughts. I wonder if men are actually programmed to act like little kids because they know that way they will be looked after. Think about men's obsession with boobs. Are they actually wanting to be metaphorically fed and looked after? Are they testing out the woman's desire to nurture (children and them as well)? Funny how babies are attracted to boobs too, and women get pleasure from having their boobs touched and caressed by either babies or men, at least this one does!

Another thought. Men are like blue steel on the outside so they can fend off enemies with sharp pointy sticks, and animals with sharp pointy teeth. Women are like cottonwool on the outside, all sweet and desirable to attract mates and keep babies warm and safe.

Men are like cottonwool in the middle, totally soft, vulnerable and yielding. That's why they need blue steel on the outside. Women are like blue steel in the middle because their outside is so soft and vulnerable. Women have to be like blue steel in the middle because they have to give birth, be around to dress wounds, mop up shit, and keep babies safe and food on the table, no matter what epic war is going on outside between the men. If men's blue steel is punctured, basically they are stuffed, because all the cottonwool is no longer protected. They have to feel strong on the outside for self-protection of their soft underbelly.

Hmm.

Louise

this is my first time using the site so im not sure if im doing it properly and my spelling and grammar is really bad so sorry. i really dont know where to start since reading some of the blogs i think ive felt every emotion happy to not be on my own, sad to read blogs that are simlar to how im feeling and confussed, my history in brief im 30 and have a nearly 3yr old and a 10week old baby and a bladder prolapse nice! ive always been really active kick boxing and running it was the only thing that kept me sane but since finding out about my prolape i feel like im losing it i dont mean to be self pityfull but i can list a hundered things i can no longer do i carnt lift up my son and twirl him around run around the climbing frame with i feel so un attractive i dont think ill ever be able to have sex with my partner and fear im going to be enormous because exercise is so limited and to make things worse ive just finished a pilates class (thought it might help) and then read on this site that its bad for prolapse just when i get my head around adjusting one thing in my life something else pops up just want to feel normal again HELP !!!!

Kate

Hi Kate

Welcome from me too. I am 54 and have been hanging around here for over three years. My prolapses crept up on me for about 24 years (post babies) then got to the point where I knew instinctively what had happened and finally had it confirmed by a gyno who wanted to remove my uterus and rehang my bladder. Fortunately I had already found this site and was having some success with Wholewoman techniques before I saw him. I just said, "No thanks. Don't call me, I'll call you." He was quite convinced I would be back. I hope he is not still holding his breath!

I have found that it is the changes that are difficult, not so much that I am unable to do things. We have brains that are quite capable of figuring out how to do stuff in different ways from what we are used to. Trouble is that it takes a lot of brain time and effort to change, at a time when we are deeply grieving (and often sleep deprived with a new baby and an energetic toddler), and we just want to keep doing all the normal things that we expected we would be able to do. Sometimes life just pulls us up with a jerk and we have to change plans quickly and radically. It is hard.

There are lots of new mums who come here. I am sure they will be able to support you while you make the adjustments necessary, so you really can get on with your life. Yes, you still have lots of healing and normalising to do, so you won't necessarily have the same degree of prolapse this time next year, as long as you get your posture right, do the right types of exercise, ensure your clothing doesn't compress your lower belly, and think up other ways to do things that make your pelvic organs feel like they are trying to escape. It gets better.

Cheers

Louise

This comes as quite a shock. My kids are big and semi-obnoxious ( and learning so much about
helping out for reals) so I don't have that new mum ambitions to get the bod back. Eat well and don't
worry about your weight right now. You need some if your breast-feeding. All in good time.

There is just so much emotional ground to cover in order to grieve, and to begin your relationship
with the new you (and of course your wee one). I hope you are kinder to yourself than I was in my
grief and rage.

Hold yourself up proudly, boobs up and out ! and You will Be In "The Posture". This is a cornerstone
in being as comfortable as possible. I had been a rolled up little ball of grief and it took some effort
and minor aches to unfold into this " new" posture.

I've been telling myself this for a while and now - I've actually come to believe it. The only way your guy
will think "IT's" broken ? Is if he can't get it in there. To be blunt. Sex is great and the glue in every
happy marriage. It's one of the few things I can count on making me feel great and I like to make sure
my H is feeling great too... esp, with all the drama he has had to put up with !!! My husband and
I have a secret code the kids don't get... Honey ? Will you move my furniture ? I feel like it restores
"natural order" and makes him feel like he's helping...

Oh - and the last thing here... you are welcome to share Any of your thoughts, and there also is really
NO such thing as TMI around here. You wouldn't believe some of the physical and emotional "details" we
know about each other.
Come often and read a LOT as there is exponential/exceptional wisdom and compassion here. I'd a been
Nutters without these Gals.
Zelda

thankyou for ur encouringing emails its actually nice to get feed back of people who are in the same boat rather than people who dont realy understand how its affecting you when you say todays not a good day and somewhere where it seems I can off load some emotion ( I struggle to tell anyone including my partner how im feeling)without feeling silly or guilty ,Ive seen a copy of the saving the whole women on ebay but its 2003 edition is it worth getting or should i be asking for the 2008 edition for my birthday (about 3 weeks time hope my prolapse behaves enough for a birthday dance) Ive also had a look at the posture but im unsure if im doing it right do u think i should print off a picture to take to physio with me maybe? ( Ill also apoligies now for being someone who questions everything i do so my emails may always include a list of questions sorry again )
Kate

welcome and congrats on the new baby!
I'm a 35 yo mama of 4, found my prolapse when my third child was about 18 mo old. totally know what you mean about feeling so unattractive and imagining you'll be unable to have sex. the good news and the bad, is that *that* is all in your head. your partner will likely find you as attractive and sexy as ever, but it is also likely that there isn't anything he can say to make you *feel* more attractive. this POP wreaks havoc with your psyche, its devastating in its own way. take some time to mourn if you need to (we're good listeners here!) and know that we've been there too and come out the other side. today, nearly 3 years later, I am feeling as sexy as I did before the prolapse appeared.
the day will come when you feel normal again.

Hi Tinkerbell

Anita put it very well. In addition, please understand that there is nothing to apologise about. Your story is very common. You have done nothing wrong. The reason we visit so often is to help women like you to learn how to live with this annoying condition and get on with living, and perhaps help others. We don't resent your questions at all. We are just glad that you are now a part of the Wholewoman family, and no longer out there in the zone of ignorance where women can so easily be influenced into having surgical procedures that are not what they seem.

Cheers

Louise

And I love this thread. Perfect equilibrium.

I've been sour, hopeless. Sliding down shit slope IIS- SHITWOMAN !

I can see the trailer for that movie in my minds eye. Sort of an animated
"Captain Underpants" theme, but with yours truly in the leading role.
How much more crap I gotta clean up ?

So I drag home from the auction feeling a myriad of feelings I was apparently NOT
supposed to feel.

selfish- to miss her so heartbrokenly.
greedy- to feel it sold for less than she was "worth" to me.
small- to not just stay focused on the fact that she saved my butt, for a good 6 months anyway.
stuck- I disconnected my phone for a couple days . Any conversation was more than I could bear.

So last night H ,after giving me space thought they'd stay over. So I went and got my son
And I had the first real smiles for days. AAah, my dearhearted boy. My D is not particularly
compassionate, but my son has an instinct for my moods and a sweet way of directly checking
in with me. I've worried that it could breed co-dependence which worries me. And by the
way is the voice of my Mother...

Any how girls, long story short H was innaccesable all evening, had a pool date (thurs.s) ate dinner
after us, read a book, fell asleep right next to me, and DIDN"T MAKE LOVE TO ME.
This morning was acting all unsure. Go figure.
Zelda

Hi Zelda

Sorry to hear that your cosy family evening turned out to be like a normal evening, just when you needed some TLC. Geez, we can get ourselves into trouble thinking we can ESP somebody into acting differently from how they normally act, can't we?

Hey, it sounds like you are just grieving over the car the same way as you are grieving over the other stuff, eg prolapses and DH and DD. Very normal, considering your emotional attachment to all of them. Yeah, just feel it, and move on along through it. Painful but necessary.

I'll be thinkin' of ya.

Cheers

Louise

Well...Today has been a bad day, from feeling good the other day (my cervix which is usually bulging along with my bladder felt better the other day) has today felt like crap. I felt so 'bulgy' today. In tears again today on and off. Why oh why must we experience this? Some days everything is bulging so much it feels as though somethings coming out. I know some of you have it much much worse, how do you get over the emotions? The tears and wanting to hide from the world? I'm so sick of this emotional and physical rollercoster and I'm only weeks into this.

I'm sorry if what I say seems trivial at times, as I know compared to some it's not so bad, but right now I feel like a bag of crud =(

I feel like one big failure, my body seems to have failed me and I feel that I've failed my kids. Usually my house is so clean, usually I'm playing with kids, now I seem to just count down time in between rests and I'm so grumpy. Even now after resting all afternoon and evening I'm still feeling yuck and bulging downstairs. My partner is so good to me and I feel bad for him...he didn't sign up for this...he tells me he's there and we'll get through this but I worry that how can he love my broken bits when I hate them so much

Hi Mummy-to-three and Anita

Just a thought, that I have actually mentioned before, but ...

I have found that a lot of the difficulties I experience turn out to be related to my menstrual cycle. By diarying them on a year planner each year I can see how patterns happen. Examples are feeling particularly sexual at ovulation time and a couple of days before a period, constipation just before a period, sore boobs, dry vagina and general vulnerability in the joints from ovulation to menstruation, boxcutter (a la Clonmacnoise) days or sadness or lethargy or irritability, around ovulation and just before a period, low cervix the week before period; the list goes on. Being perimenopausal these things are often variable or absent, but the advantage of diarying them with little icons and symbols is that I can often work out where I am in the cycle and ask myself if it is reasonable that the day of the month could have anything to do with it. Often it does, and I know that it will be gone in x no of days, so just hang in there. Knowing that there is an end to it makes it so much easier, and I don't have so much fear that "I am going to be like this forever".

If it is not a day of the month thing, it can sometimes be correlated with other things in my life at the time, like too many obligations, not enough fun, not enough sleep, unreal expectations of myself or others etc. Often these difficulties are little warning signs that I need to ease up on some things.

Information contributes to understanding, and understanding contributes to wellbeing.

Cheers

Louise

hello again and sorry for this email will again be filled with questions,ive been coming on the site regualy but have kind of been getting to upset to write anything

u know those days when u want to hide from the world lock urself in a dark room and not come out and the days where u feel like the worst mother in the world coz ur son asks where we going today mummy and u have to say nowhere when all i want to say is were gonna go run round a play area and have loads of fun especially since b4 this bloody prolapse we were always having loads of fun running around together i was actually jelious of my partner the other day coz he was running round the play area with him instead of me

its wierd sometimes ill read emails and they'll say exsactilly how im feeling i even read one to my partner just so he could maybe understand a little how im feeling

anyway the reason for my post today is pure conffusion 1st of all how do i know what stage my prolapse is and what is the name on the questions and answer page for my prolapse (my doctor just said bladder) and is there more chance because of this that everything else will prolapse because ive convinced my self my bowel is now prolapsed my partner said im paranoid (im usually really regular and had 1 day constipation) also can aqua arobics make it worse i went the other day its lots of jumping but in the water? also my physio said she teaches pilates and its fine for prolapse but this site says other wise (as for my doctor she just says surgery) u can see why im conffused also and im a little embaressed to ask this one but u did say theres no such thing as to much infomation but can sex in posions other than missionary make it worse (ive not even attempted yet but im trying to think possitive)im scared the motion of the limbs banging together will bring it down (am i just being silly) i just dont know who to ask coz its all different opinion at least on this site everyone people have experienced it all and hopefully know the answers hope someone can help me out and sorry for the spelling

Kate

anita already gave you some answers, so I'm pretty much just another listening ear.
I do remember the days of not feeling able to run around with the kids. blessedly, those days are, for the most part, gone.

as far as what stage the prolapse is, I honestly have no idea what grade mine is. I don't much care and anyway, it changes from day to day. and sometimes during a single day too. its the symptoms that matter most to me, not the number a doctor would jot down in my chart.

my gut feeling is like anita's, water aerobics = probably fine
pilates = with care not to put too much pressure on the pelvic 'floor'. having never actually done any pilates, I'm not the one to advise.

sex, well, its all good. Louise is our expert on that, and a while ago sue posted a survey, in the name of science, of course. don't remember the subject line for a search though. chances are, as long as it feels good, you won't be doing any damage. in fact, as per sue's very 'scientific study' many have found that their prolapse actually feels better afterwards

got to go, tantrums are a-brewing here

With regards to sex, I asked my doctor if it was ok, or would it do any damage. She said that I was fine to try and it shouldn't do any further damage.

I have tried a few times, and it felt fine much to my surprise. When I'm lying down everything moves back to near it's normal place and sex hasn't hurt me or felt uncomfortable yet. My doctor just said I may need to experiment to find a way that is comfortable.

I have a cystocele and prolapsed cervix too (don't know if that has a proper name?) and not sure on what grade either, some parts of the day isn't so bad, other times feels much worse, depending on level of activity

Hi Kate

Well, I logged on eventually. Welcome to the site. I never figured I would get a reputation like this, but here goes.

Kate, no wonder you have so many questions. This is all so new for you. It will probably take you a little while just to get your head around the terminology, so keep asking questions. I guess you have found the FAQ's on www.wholewoman.com by now, so are better informed already.

You can also use the search box at left to search for the topics you are interested in. We have discussed *all* prolapse topics in the past! Put in a term and have a look at the topics. Click on each one and use your browser's Find function to highlight the term in each string. Then you don't have to read everything. This will take you ages, but will give you a feel for attitudes. "TMI" won't work because it only has 3 characters, likewise "sex". :-(

Be wary of grading systems. I believe there are several different ones. Like Granolamom, I find mine can vary with activities, time of day, time of month. So they are not really comparable. If your prolapses bother you physically, you have prolapses. If you don't notice them you may as well not have prolapses.

I can imagine aquaerobics being not good, as you might feel as if your organs are being sucked out when you jump up. Pilates, be wary as somebody else mentioned. The best exercises seem to be dance, or other whole body upright activities, done in Wholewoman posture. Once you understand the structure of your body, and how the pelvic organs are supported you will be able to trust your own judgement about what exercises are OK and what is not.

Have you worked out about posture yet? It is the cornerstone of this Wholewoman work, along with good diet, not compressing your abdomen with clothing, diet for a light bowel, and whole body exercise.

Once you find how the posture works it is much easier to use the same principles with anything you do, sex, scrubbing floors, lifting your kids, walking, running, sitting etc. Just keep your pelvic organs well forward where they are resting on the pubic bone, and not hanging over the pelvic floor (which is designed to let stuff out, not keep stuff in!). It may take some months to get it right, and you might experience some discomfort on the way, but you might get immediate benefit.

Your partner obviously thinks sex with prolapse is no big deal. This is hard for a women with prolapses to get her head around, but is great, cos he is on your side. Just remember that internally generated intraabdominal forces (like constipation, coughing, sneezing, etc are what aggravates prolapses, made worse by gravity, when your pelvic floor is taking all the pressure). Do anything you like, as long as your pelvic floor is not on the bottom! Allow your lower belly to expand to accommodate your pelvic organs and they will stay forward, away from the pelvic floor. Keep your upper back quite erect. This will maintain the lumbar curve in your spine and keep your pelvis tilted forwards slightly. This in turn keeps your pelvic floor taut like a drum, believe it or not. You will need to get Christine Kent's book, Saving the Pelvic Floor, to see the full explanation of this. Intuitively, it seems like the pelvic floor is tightest when the butt is tucked under and the tummy pulled in. This is false. It is smallest and loosest in this horizontal position but the pelvic floor is tightest when it feels (and is) the largest, in a diagonal position and is not 'protected by the coccyx'. Just read the book. HINT: Tightest feels best for sex, so keep your butt and boobs out and your back quite erect. Whoo- hoo! Pillows can be helpful.

With all these things, there are no guarantees that they will work, but giving it a really good shot can keep you from having to have surgery. Many women find that getting relief more than say 50% of the time makes the other 50% bearable. Working out patterns can help too, eg keeping a written record of the first day of each cycle and noting symptoms helps you to be able to associate difficult times with bad symptoms, particularly around periods. If you know it will end by itself in a few days, it is sometimes easier to put up with symptoms, knowing that they will resolve by themselves. You learn to trust your body more, so it doesn't scare the living daylights out of you.

Hope this is some help.

Cheers

Louise

I have noticed since prolapse that the most comfortable sex position is laying down side by side...I wonder if that is related to the prolapse or not...

Both of you on your sides, you mean? Could be related. I think the important thing is to find things that work, and not worry too much about why. Life is too short. The real risk is, with any sort of adventure, that we can end up doing very little if we are scared of the consequences. Try anything, gently and slowly, then see how far you want to take it. Respect each other and keep communicating with each other, even if it means 'grunt interpretation'. It doesn't have to be words. Sounds and touch can work well too.

Human bodies change in so many ways over time, particularly as we age, I find! And this includes men! We just have to remain adaptable, and open to new possibilities.

Cheers

Louise

between the good and the bad days. I still feel yuck today, but have started antidepressents and trying to tell myself the good must outway the bad for my childrens sake.
I've been working on my posture (do hope I'm doing it right) and my exercises as I'm unhappy with how much things have gotten out of my control lately, and I need to take control and accept things as they are and work with it. I know there will be bad days, but I've been letting depression rule my life and I need to pick up my mood and not concentrate on when I'm feeling bad.
My partner is taking a while off work, to help me rest, have 'me' time, and also to do my exercies and work on getting a happy mum back.

Yes, both of us on our sides. I don't worry about why either, just curious! Anyway, it feels good and that's what matters.
I agree with you Louise. I'm all for taking the risks involved with living life!
cheers to that!

Hi. I'm new to this site, but not new to the problems discussed here. It almost brought tears to my eyes to find this group and know there might be help other than surgery for me. I'm 61 with cystocele and a rectocele. For the last five weeks, everything feels worse - more pressure all of the time. At no time do I have any relief unless I use a tampon to help support organs. My doc tried fitting me with a pessary. I must be the only patient she has that she's tried that on. The thing shot across the room when she tried to insert it. Imagine the trouble I had! I'm very interested in the diets, posture, devices you all talk about. Can anyone tell me how to make a beeswax pessary? Can't find info online. Thanks so much to all of you. Your information has given me hope at last.

Welcome to the Forum! There are several members here who wear pessaries, and who have also used and discussed making them out of beeswax. Just type 'besswax pessary' in the SEARCH box. After the results come up, use your Edit and Find functions at the top of your internet page to quickly find all of the results. I'm 59, but have chosen not to use a pessary, though they were definitely on my radar screen when I first found my prolapse. I am managing it now quite nicely with the Whole Woman posture, diet and clothing choices.

Good luck, and I'm sure some of the other members who have experience with beeswax will post to you also.

Goldfinch

'Life is not holding a good hand; Life is playing a poor hand well'

Hi Goldfinch, Thanks for responding. Since I'm new here I'm not yet familiar with the posture or the diet and clothing. I have downloaded info on posture. I just lost 30 pounds eating basically locarb and hoping that would help with the pressure I feel. So far, the pressure is still as bad as before. Can't stop living though. I have a wedding to attend next week and I'm learning the "Hustle", "Electric Slide" etc. Also, I belly dance for my own amusement. Gotta find some way to relieve the pressure I feel when on my feet doing these things. Thanks again

I am about to go on a bike ride so this will be short. THere is an FaQs page at www.wholewoman.com. There is a search function on the left of your screen. Electric slide sounds like so much fun! Welcome here- sorry about your pessary experience (and it gave me a laugh to imagine it flying across the room). When I started the posture the pain in my tailbone disappeared almost immediatly. But I know what you mean when you talk about being on your feet for a while. There are some supporters women here use sometimes- the V2 I think. And recently there has been some talk of making one. I personally find thong underwear to be nice and supportive- just one of many tools I use to help manage this thing. Have you considered not wearing anything constricting around your middle?

Hi Alemama, hope you enjoyed that bike ride. I have been looking at the V2 supporter but haven't purchased one yet. Your idea about the thong underwear sounds like a good idea. I think I'll try that. At this point, I'll try anything (almost). I try not to wear constricting clothes around my waist 'cause I had a hernia repair and still have some tenderness. Sometimes as soon as I stand up, the pressure from the rectocele/cystocele almost makes me feel a numbness. Is this something that anyone else experiences? I recently lost about 30 pounds and thought that might help with the pressure, but it's almost like the fat was holding things in place. Go figure! I wish I had known about this site months ago. It is such a relief to get advice and information from women who a facing the same challenges. Thanks so much!

Hi Dancin

I have been dancing for several years, just cos I love it. I do get immediate benefit from Christine's ballet workout in terms of body pain. I do some latin and ballroom, jive etc, and am currently doing belly dancing for 'fitness', though I just love it anyway, and think it is very good for body awareness and isolation, strength around the hips and knees, and a sense of femininity. I love the music we use which is middle eastern, both traditional and modern, Turkey, Egypt etc. I am so jealous of you learning Hustle, Electric Slide etc. I would love to learn Swing dances.

I think the first and most important thing for you to do is to get your posture right for your prolapses, then work out how to do your dancing in WW posture. This is possible, very easy with latin, ballroom, and swing styles; not so easy with belly dancing, particularly if your teacher is rather pedantic about the style. However, I am quite determined to keep doing belly dancing, so I shall find out a way to do it.

I am not into performance, so I can do what I jolly well like, and will do what I have to do to enable me to do it. If I ever get into performance it will be in the back row, and not with a bare belly, so who is going to know what is going on down there under the flowing fabric? Not my teacher for sure! However, I have now been doing WW posture for over three years, so I am very familiar with it, and I think quite body aware. The belly dance class I am in is full of very ordinary women of all shapes and sizes, not an Egyptian goddess in site, except the teacher who has a very, very buff bod, and is a trained fitness instructor, as well as a belly dance teacher. We certainly know about the fitness instructor bit the day after a class!!

I am sure you will be able to relieve the pressure to some degree, though two weeks may be pushing it a bit. Don't get discouraged though, this prolapse management is a long term investment in the wellbeing of your body. Nobody really knows how much benefit they can personally get until they try it.

I find the secret to utilising WW posture for dancing is to relax the lower belly and use your knees and hips, and the muscles surrounding them, rather than the tummy muscles, obliques, back muscles, glutes etc. Keep your knees really soft at all times, and stick your butt out if you have to, to keep your front lower abdominal wall more horizontal and allow your pelvic organs to slide forwards to a greater degree. Wearing long tops outside your pants/skirt and stretchy pants/skirts that don't compress your lower belly may help you to be more confident with relaxing your belly.

Good luck. Keep up the discussion.

Cheers

Louise

i figure the weight loss will help. But it will take time for the rest of your body to catch up. so all your tendons and ligaments and muscles will have to adjust to the decrease in bulk- Give it half a year. and maybe some light body retraining- yoga?

Dancin…you are right about the fat holding things up…use the SEARCH function to learn about the rectal pillars.

Louise…I’ve had good discussions and demos with the terrific belly dance teacher who holds class in my studio on Monday nights. I, too, wanted to know if you could do Middle Eastern dance in wwposture – and the answer is “clearly not.” This is because you must loosen the abs to shimmy and shake the belly, which can only be done by flexing your spine. This is not to discourage you from coming up with a new version, however! Also – the body is very flexible and can do these moves as long as you return to the posture after dancing. I love to move my hips – but have found that movements that shake the butt rather than the belly are easier in this posture.

Thanks for the info Christine and Alemama. I am so glad to find you ladies. My pressure problem definitely got worse as I lost weight and I lost it pretty rapidly. I'll give myself some time and work on the posture in the meantime. Alemama, I won't be dancing in front of anyone! I told my husband if he'd lose ten pounds I'd dance for him. He told me if I'd lose ten, he'd watch. What a riot we sixty-something married for fourty something years are. Thanks again. This is one site I can't wait to get on as soon as I can to find something else to help me.

Hi Christine

Hey, I don't understand this teacher of yours. You are saying that you have to loosen the abs to shimmy and shake, which can only be done by flexing the spine. Surely what we do in WW posture is to loosen the abs, and we flex our spines anyway to balance as we do everyday movement!

The teachers I have had (both belly dance and latin) have told me very clearly that the movement comes from the knees and the thighs, not the spine. It is when you start using the torso muscles that it gets hard to do, and can cause back pain and problems with knees.

For sure, the spine flexes, but only to balance and compensate for the movements that are generated lower down. Our spine flexes with every movement we make, doesn't it? What's the difference between walking and shimmy walking. The shimmy walk is generated by straightening the knees at the end of each stride, nothing to do with the spine. You can't shimmy walk with your spine.

Just a thought though, I have been learning Egyptian and Turkish dance, not American style belly dancing, which I think my be different. Australia has many long-standing relationships with middle east countries, having accepted possibly hundreds thousands of immigrants from the middle east, particularly Moslem countries, many of them refugees. They are quite free to practise their cultural and religious traditions here and there is some interaction between cultures, particularly in the dance area. I don't know what the situation is in USA.

Final thought. I cannot see that the ancient Egyptians who invented bellydance would have altered their traditional female posture to enable their dancers to dance properly. Those original dancers would have had natural WW posture in everyday life.

Anyway, I am managing to make it work, and really enjoying the experience. I have found that I can get through a class without back pain, which I couldn't do the last time I did bellydance classes. The Feldenkrais classes have taught my body to move differently, I think.

I don't wear long tops to bellydance classes, so my teacher can see what my belly is doing, and doesn't seem to be complaining. Maybe she sees the way I carry my upper spine and can see that I know what I am doing, even if it isn't perfect. I will ask her about it, and give her a brochure too.

Don't be put off bellydance. Be confident. Just do it your own way. You are paying the fees, after all!

Cheers

Louise

Hello again Alemama. I tried your idea about wearing the thong to help with support. It worked! I only have one pair, bought some time ago. They're almost like a girdle material with a stomach panel - good and sturdy, but still a thong. I have looked in several stores today and could not find anything but thongs that look like hankies with strings. Do you have any ideas where I might purchase some? Also, today I got the jar of Bliss Balm I ordered. Is it used just for vaginal lubrication or is it used during intercourse too. Also, how should it be inserted for lubrication. It seems very thick. Any information will help. Thanks

Hi Dancin,

I don't know about the thong, but can tell you that the bliss balm is a general lube for intercourse or pessary. It has a beeswax base and so solidifies at colder temps. It will melt with skin contact, so just scoop a bit out and rub it in your palm.

:) Christine

I have just been informed from my radiologist that I have rectocele, I see the surgeon next week. Have you had the surgery?? Can you email me information about what you went through at [email protected]. Waiting anxiously to hear from you!

Cindy

Hi Cindy

Glad you found us before committing yourself to surgery. It is not necessarily a good idea to have surgery for rectocele. It cannot be repaired back to original condition, only repaired like a mend in a stretchy garment. It makes the garment tighter, but will leave new pressure points where the fabric pulls and eventually breaks down again, either in the same place or somewhere else, possibly/probably causing further prolapses and other side effects which can be pretty nasty. By this time you are on a treadmill of more and more surgery through your life.

You will always have the fascial damage between the vagina and the rectum that causes this to happen. Don't let anybody tell you they can fix you good as new. They can't. And the surgery may leave you with different problems that are no more solvable. The good news is that you can control the symptoms yourself and look after your body in different ways that will conserve the pelvic structures you still have and prevent further damage. You may already have other prolapses in the making. They can exist without us even knowing, for years. It is not the end of the world, and is not life-threatening.

Go to www.wholewoman.com and go through the FAQ's to find out about Wholewoman posture and other measures you can take. For rectocele it is most important that you never, ever strain again while using your bowels. Constipation is now your arch enemy, even if it wasn't before!

By following these guidelines you may be able to rid yourself of the troublesome symptoms altogether.

Use the search box at left to find topics that are about rectocele, then use your browser's Find on This Page function to select posts with rectocele in them. There are thousands!

Then when you have more questions and comments call back to the Forum.

Cheers

Louise