love and marriage

Submitted by Christine on March 25, 2008 - 7:43pm
Body: 

Deep sigh. I’d like to write down a few random thoughts since really, Stella’s plea brings up so very much for all of us.

Hm-m-m…well…there are the Judys of the world (thank goodness!) who make great examples of the art of commitment. Family is the backbone of society and we have many lovely cases here of women in stable, committed relationships – some for better or worse. But what about the abusive or alcoholic (or slob) partner who will not change? Clearly, commitment is not always enough no matter how deeply desired. And what of the “soul growth” Stella mentioned…are there spiritual consequences for staying in a cold and lonely relationship?

I thought about the narcissist (I define narcissism as someone who puts her own dreams and schemes before others) who is only able to strive for her own happiness and safety. These people often leave a path of destruction in their wake that very few partners would have the strength to withstand. It takes an extraordinarily mature, patient, and secure individual to help another grow out of self-centeredness. But it is a sublime and transformational journey.

Then there is the continuum of sexuality and all the confusion that can bring. Woe be to Pollyanna who is shaken out of her world of neat and tidy boxes when confronted with the truth of human sexuality – that it is a profound and complex spectrum of both joy and sorrow. Compassion and understanding are the only lights along this ancient and deeply worn path.

And what about “love” for that matter? Several cultures don’t even have a word for love, romantic love being another closely held Western ideal. China, for example, is basically a polygamist culture where the aging matriarch will often find suitable consorts for her husband – and her kitchen. This was the case for Native Americans and probably most of non-Western culture as well. And in Tibet it is not uncommon for a woman to have two husbands. Does this make us right and them wrong? The nuclear family is a very recent invention and more power to the oh-so-cozy-rosy people who have made it work perfectly from the beginning.

There is profound sweetness in growing old with the people you love most – and it is our own cultural blinders that cause us to judge what sort of arrangement that “ought” to be. We don’t have the simplicity of the tribe anymore, which complicates matters in some ways and I suppose simplifies in others. Every person must find her own way through the labyrinth of life – look for the open hearts – they are the lights along the way.

Blessed Be.

Christine

stella

March 25, 2008 - 9:56pm

Glad you started this new category, and that these discussions are also welcomed. I agree with you and Judy that if we are to be whole women, all of our parts and pieces must be honored. That also includes our dark sides as well as the light. Interesting the points you mentioned...when my husband and I were pondering this decision, our wise friend and shaman advised us to "think outside the box". Now she knows that we are the type of people who have always marched to our own drummer. We are non-conformists in every sense of the word. So we have resolved ourselves to being creative about all of this, and to doing our best to keep the family as intact as possible under the circumstances. I imagine that it will all be an experiment and an evolving...a metamorphosis. I can only hope that out of the pain will emerge something beautiful.

shellymum

March 28, 2008 - 12:42am

It is so refreshing to hear women speak honestly and frankly about marriage, without complaining about their partners or pretending everything is always rosy. I'm a relatively newly married youngish woman and have been doing a lot of thinking about what marriage means and involves...I find my expectations change now and again, especially after the birth of each child.

Stella, I love how you write that your decision has come out of respect for each other and even though I don't know you and haven't been a member here for long, I do hope that really good things come to you and your husband and children and that the road to a happier place won't be too long.

Christine

March 28, 2008 - 8:19am

Thanks for these sweet words, Shellymum. Always speak the truth and be yourself and life will evolve you instead of keeping you stuck. Also, you will know who your friends are - lol. Hugs, Christine

granolamom

March 28, 2008 - 4:14pm

shellymum, I find that our marriage has gone through so many changes and we are only married 10 years!
the birth of the first child definitely changes things, as does the addition of each subsequent child. but then there's also the changes that life brings, whether its a loss of job, or a move, or a prolapse! each has an impact on a marriage. and of course, no one is a stagnant being, so we are each changing and therefore our relationship and marriage has to change too. but if the foundation is a solid and flexible one, the changes are not necessarily bad at all.

the whole 'what is love' thing is interesting too, I think. In hebrew, the root of the word 'love' means 'to give'. and I think that the longer you are with someone, giving of yourself, the more deeply your love grows. but its not the same selfish type love I experienced when we were still dating and engaged. those feelings faded somewhat for me, but only to be replaced with much deeper and stronger feelings. upgraded the butterflies for an oasis. at least that's what it feels like to me. every once in a while I get the butterflies feeling again, but not as often as I used to.

goodness, I'm rambling today.
and anyway I think each relationship is unique so we all probably have our very own experiences/thoughts/feelings on the matter.

alemama

March 28, 2008 - 8:17pm

Granolamom wrote "the whole 'what is love' thing is interesting too, I think. In hebrew, the root of the word 'love' means 'to give'. and I think that the longer you are with someone, giving of yourself, the more deeply your love grows. but its not the same selfish type love I experienced when we were still dating and engaged. those feelings faded somewhat for me, but only to be replaced with much deeper and stronger feelings. upgraded the butterflies for an oasis. at least that's what it feels like to me. every once in a while I get the butterflies feeling again, but not as often as I used to."

I used to worry when those butterflies happened less and less-but you are so right! it is deeper than little flutters.

mmmmmmmmmmmmhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm

Christine

March 28, 2008 - 9:01pm

That really is beautiful, gmom…this is way less poetic (or more crude – sorry!), but it made me think: rabbits-to-eagles. You youngins are still rabbits :)

stella

March 29, 2008 - 8:42am

At midaberet evereet?
I speak hebrew too! (though not very well) Didn't know that those roots were the same?!

granolamom

March 29, 2008 - 8:37pm

my hebrew is more biblical than conversational, though ds wants to take an ulpan (hebrew lessons) with me this summer. would be a good thing for me, as dh's family all lives in Israel.

where'd you pick up your hebrew?

edited to add: I found this when I google'd
"There’s a Hebrew word which is often translated as “love”. It is the Hebrew word for love, but I don’t think it means the same thing that we in the West mean when we say “love”. The Hebrew word is ahava. Ahava is… the word hav conjugated. Hav means “to give”. Ahav is “I will give”. Ahava is the state of “I will giveness”, "

from here: http://www.warmwisdompress.com/dating/gtr/kelemen1.aspx

he goes on to describe the Jewish concept of marriage, which maybe makes for interesting reading.

edited again to add:
remembered some of my hebrew
'hav' is also used to mean 'to bring to'
such as 'lihavi' = to bring, 'hav lanu mayim' = give us (bring for us) water, 'hava nagila' = come (bring yourself) and rejoice

stella

March 29, 2008 - 10:04pm

We have lived in Israel on and off-our families are also there. I gave birth to my daughter there and we lived there when she was an infant.
Where in Israel is your husband's family?
Ahava is the word for both like and love. Letet means to give. At least in modern hebrew. I am not familiar with the biblical.
Hm, I will check out the website...

granolamom

March 29, 2008 - 10:10pm

dh's family is not far from Modi'in, and some in Beit Shemesh
I have some family in Jerusalem, I spent a year there after high school, during the first gulf war, actually.
where are your families?

stella

March 31, 2008 - 4:36pm

Our families are all over the country-from the north to the south. Much of my family is in Haifa.
Well we have more connections than we knew, huh?!

granolamom

March 31, 2008 - 4:42pm

I so often find that the people who turn up in my life have connections to me other than the obvious. maybe its my habit to look? or coincidence? or karma? I dunno.
Haifa's beautiful though. I have a cousin there too.

stella

March 31, 2008 - 6:50pm

me too!
Yes, Haifa is beautiful. I spent a year at the University there...

louiseds

April 4, 2008 - 6:22am

Granolamom, that does make interesting reading. I find it interesting that English is not very good at describing love. We have to precede "love" it with an adjective or describe its context to communicate what sort of love we really mean. I love food, or I love football mean completely different things from each other, and are a million miles from I love my husband, or I love my children. Maybe that is why we don't do love very well. It all gets mixed up.

We really do need our books of wisdom.

Cheers

Louise