Living well with prolapse

Submitted by annma on April 1, 2008 - 10:56am
Body: 

I posted this on the blog, but I wanted to repost it here-is that OK Christine?-because I think many woman read these posts first and it might help a newbie not be so scared

After having been diagnosed with 3rd degree cystocele (the midwife sad it was the "worst she had ever seen") I spent months NOT lifting my baby NOT wearing my baby NOT playing with my children etc. I was sad, angry, and frustrated at my helplessness. I could not walk to the park with my children because of the prolapse being so uncomfortable and I used to run miles!

After a few months of ww exercise and applying the posture I improved steadily until it seemed to reach a point where improvement was slow if at all, but the cele was at a point I could live with-i.e. did not look like a baby crowning, all inside so no one knows but me (not that just anyone is really looking, but those of you with visible celes kwim)also much more comfortable, not noticable every second I am upright.

At that point I began to live my "normal" life again, with awareness. I lift the baby all day long (30 lbs. now at 1!)with awareness of posture and pelvic floor and play with my kids, but I tell them not to squeeze me. I will wear the baby in the backpack (ergo) but I will have repercussions for a while unfortunately from that. The Ergo seems to crush the pelvic area too much. I would like to buy a carrier that attaches higher. I wear a supporter most days I am going to be out just for assurance. If I am feeling really low I put in the sea sponges to act as a pessery. Too many activities will bring the bladder down, so then I slow up for a few days and rest with my feet up against a well while watching TV and it seems to resolve itself. I have not been brave enough to try running again, but I walk a lot and have started practicing yoga-again being aware of my body.

I guess I just decided to go on with my life and be at peace with my altered anatomy. I am often envious when I see young woman running, or being active with no thought-but now that I am 40 I am able to accept some of that as just the fact that they are young and I am not. What happened to me was wrong and the fault, in my opinion, of the medical community, but what happened happened and there really is no good alternative than to learn to live with it and live well.

The posture DOES make a difference as does the exercise (I only have the 1st book). Food makes a BIG difference. I overate on junk (pizza) the other day and I could really feel the difference the next TWO days in my POP. Maybe things got all clogged up in there and pushed on it LOL. I don't usually do that, I rarely even eat wheat or dairy so I could really tell the difference.

So I guess my advice for living well is: do the posture it empowers you, do the exercises they strengthen you, eat well to nourish your whole body and enjoy all the joys life has to give.

One more thing, don't be afraid. Fear has a way of making everything worse. It is a useless emotion in most cases. Hope is better. When you are being proactive doing things to help yourself, hope seems better able to push out that fear.

Love, Anna

Christine

April 1, 2008 - 3:57pm

I'm so happy for you, Anna. Thank you with all my heart for your encouraging words to others. We need all our voices to make this very important difference. Hugs! Christine

mooncatmama

April 13, 2008 - 8:05am

Hi, ladies!

This looks like a good place to start. I am 55 years of age, have been dealing with IBS-C I guess all of my life but didn't have a name for it until a few years ago. I found Heather at HelpForIBS who has helped tremendously. However, as most with my problem - it is still a problem. A few years ago I was diagnosed with a rectocele. Being completely naive (I never knew such a thing could happen), I was SHOCKED! I found Christine's info on the internet and ordered her book. More shock! However, I am so grateful for it. Of course, my GYN said surgery is the only way and sent me to a specialist at Vanderbilt in Nashville. He said the same thing and described the surgery to me. I raised some of the questiones prompted by Saving The Whole Woman to which he just shrugged. I told him I would think about it and never went back. Since then I have just lived with it. The few women I have tried to discuss it with have no idea what I am talking about though they try to be sympathetic (I feel like somewhat of an alien - ha!). Lately it has demanded all of my attention - so I took a week of from work (legal assistant - a lot of sitting in bad furniture)to get dead serious about an exercise routine that I can maintain while working 40 hours a week, walking every day, and developing a diet that will nourish and help me heal. I really related to the words about fear making everything worse. Taking action this week has given me hope. I have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help with. 1. Does anyone have any suggestions on diet specifically for IBS-C (unless I can get the constipation under control - I'll probably continue to rip out my insides). 2. I have looked online at ergonomic desk chairs and nothing looks like it would even approximate the postures Christine uses at her computer...any suggestions for my posture at work?

Thank you so much for listening to me. I have felt very much alone with this problem.

Everything Christine has suggested has helped so much this week. But getting back into the work routine and finding time to do all that I need to for my health seems a little overwhelming.

Searchingly,
Mooncatmama

louiseds

April 13, 2008 - 9:34am

Hi Mooncatmama

I had the same seating problem at the university I worked at. All the Staff chairs were the same, and all the student chairs were the same. I have given up on chairs. If a chair has a back, I now pretend it isn't there, and use it as a stool, adjusting the seat forward slightly if necessary so it is horizontal, and I can plant both feet firmly on the ground, knees apart, solid as a rock. If the seat is too low to do that, I kind of half-squat on the edge of it. I also have a little tiny child's chair that sits in the garden, that I use if I have to work low down in the garden.

Mind you, I always wear long skirts or trousers so modesty is not a problem, but I have never been very good at sitting like a lady, so the change was not sudden, or extreme. I am 55 too, and had a similar experience with a gynaecologist, 3 1/2 years ago now. Needless to say I haven't been back either, and my prolapses feel better than they did way back when, and still improving.

I am sure you will be fine. Making changes in your head are just as important as changes in lifestyle, diet, clothing, exercise etc. You are right about reducing the fear. I have found that knowledge is the way to do that.

Cheers

Louise

mooncatmama

April 13, 2008 - 10:10am

Louise, thank you. As a short person I've really done that quite a bit through my life, but now will do it with more purpose! Ha! Thanks for responding. It is so good to speak with "women in the know".

Clonmacnoise

April 13, 2008 - 6:54pm

Mooncatmama,

Sounds like you are in my neck of the woods. I'm sorry about your visit with your idiot. As I said to Louise, if we did the same things to men, offered to shorten their penis with a "little surgery" or offer to make it perpetually soft, they would probably have the same response as we do when they shrug and suggest that they take a knife to our vaginas. If dumb were for sale, there would be a lot more upper crust.

I've found something Stella recommended to me to really help with constipation. It's called Stinging Nettles and you can buy it from GNC or an herbalist. I open the capsule and make a tea out of it and two other little gems, Red Clover and Dandelion root. You have to let teas steep 15 minutes before drinking. I also throw in a peppermint tea bag. Since I started the nettles, my cholesterol has dropped 60 points as an extra bonus. Also, I'm not as hungry when I drink nettles.

I'm 57,

Judy

mooncatmama

April 14, 2008 - 7:23am

Judy, thanks! I will try it all except the peppermint (GERD) Ha! The complications never end!!! Anyway I am very excited to have some new suggestions. I love teas. I have a counter full of them and am enjoying honey bush tea right now. Thanks sooo very much! I can skip off happily to work now! Looking forward to talking with you again - by the way you say I'm in your neck of the woods?

mooncatmama

annma

April 14, 2008 - 8:28am

I don't know if you have ever heard of Jordan Rubin, but he was healed of severe IBS and Chrohn's disease by following a particular diet and adding a special kind of probiotics called HSOs. He was so sick he weighed 111 lbs. at age 19 and had to travel in a wheel chair. There is a lot more to it than that. He wrote a book called "Patient Heal Thyself" which chronicles his healing. If you want I can try to summarize some of the protocol in his book (he has a special section for IBS and other functional bowel diseases)-I have it (the book), but have not read it thoroughly other than his personal story.

mooncatmama

April 14, 2008 - 5:54pm

No, I haven't heard of Jordan Rubin. I would be interested to know what he has to say. I'll try to find him on the net.

Thanks!
mooncatmama

drmayogini

April 14, 2008 - 8:11pm

i just found this blog and i'm sooooo glad i did!
My GYN keeps trying to give me a hysterectomy when the only problem
i have is a rectocele (like a rectal prolapse).
i read about all the complications and wondered if i'd be able to do
my yoga after the surgery.
i have heard mention of "Christine's" DVD and books ....
Who is Christine, is this her website???
What is the name of her books/DVD?
Are they about good excercises for prolapses?
AND....where can i purchase them??
i've been searching all over the Wholewoman website for this info.
i would greatly appreciate any help....

namaste (i honor the light in YOU)

louiseds

April 14, 2008 - 10:59pm

Hi Drmayogini

You must think all your Christmases have come at once! Not far from the truth, when the alternative is surgery.

Go to www.wholewoman.com, the homepage of the mother site for these Forums.

Christine Kent is the owner of Wholewoman.

Her book, Saving the Wholewoman, is available form the online shop, that you link to from the homepage. It is the second edition, and is much better than the first edition.

Yes, there are good exercises. See the book, the current DVD First Aid for Prolapse (also from the shop). There is another one, a dance workout, coming out soon.

See also Christine's Blog, "Why We Need a New Yoga For Women". You can find it by scrolling down the lefthand frame of this screen.

Also search the Forums by using the Search box, then when you have a list of topics, click on each and use your browser's Find on This Page function on each topic to find the posts you want to read. You'll be reading for ever if you don't get the brower to help you, because the Search thingy finds posts with the search string in topics other than just rectocele topics.

Have fun. Call back with questions and comments.

Cheers

Louise

annma

April 15, 2008 - 7:42am

He starts with a research summary that talks about the implication of pesticide residues in IBS patients so of course try as much as possible to eat all produce, meats and dairy organic. Grains have low toxicity levels so are less inportant to get organnically (from the book "diet for a poisoned planet)

Here is Rubin's protocol:

Therapeutic foods (use as much as possible in your diet)

Cultured goat's milk products (like yogurt and kefir, you can makes these at home more cheaply if you have a farm nearby where you can buy goat's milk-write if you want directions) He recommends a yogurt called "probiogurt" and says to avoid the organism Streptococcus Thermophilus which can sometimes be in yogurt as it aggravates IBS.

Grass fed red meat from cattle, buffalo, and lamb only a few times per week in moderation.

Omega 3 eggs-can be eaten daily

Ocean caught fish-can be eaten daily

Cod Liver oil-recommended daily as a supplement of fatty acids

Vegetable juices-fresh made with a juicer-mix in a Tbs. of natural fat like flax seed oil or virgin coconut oil.

Fermented vegetables-like RAW sauerkraut found in health food stores refrigerated section-these have probiotics in them, canned or jarred varieties don't.

Home made soup stocks (usually made with leftover bones, meats, and vegetables) These broths contain minerals, gelatin, cartilage, collagen, and electrolytes that help heal inflammation

OTHER FOODS (Between the top list and this should make up 75% of your diet)

All raw nuts or seeds (not peanuts or cashews ) soaked overnight, raw nut or seed butters

ALL ORGANIC VEGETABLES AND FRUITS PREFERABLY RAW, lightly steamed is OK too he says in another book-this should be at every meal

Organic poultry in moderation

Fats: Raw goat's milk butter, fresh goat's milk, Virgin coconut oil (OK to cook in), flax seed oil, extra-virgin olive oil (OK to cook in-sometimes), hemp seed oil, pumpkin seed oil, hazel nut oil, olives, coconut, avocado

Beverages: purified mineral enriched water, lacto-fermented beverages, vegetable broths, vegetable juices, stocks

Condiments: celtic sea salt, herbamare, lacto-fermented sauces and condiments, raw homemade salsa, guacamole, home made salad dressings, raw apple cider vinegar, organic herbs and spices

Carbohydrates: Sprouted or sourdough bread (like Ezekiel bread), Any non-gluten whole grains or flours soaked overnight before preparation (this breaks down phytates, or antinutrients)

Sweeteners: raw honey-in later books he lists Stevia and birch bark xylitol here

He then has a list of healthy food to make up the other 25% of your diet, but I am out of time. This list includes legumes. Remember this diet is specifically for persons battling bowel diseases so maybe (just my guess, not having read the entire book) legumes are harder to digest and that is why they are here? HTH some one because my kids (5 of them) are all over the place now!

I realize this is not a vegetarian diet-but this is the one he recommends specifically for functional bowel disorders and gives much research why he believes this is the best. He, himself, tried raw and vegan diets to heal his illness but hs body was too weak to digest that type of food at the time (when he was so ill), I guess.

I will write his supplement protocol for healing IBS in another post after I get the kids under control.:)

annma

April 15, 2008 - 8:29am

Primal Defense (this is a brand of HSOs) Start with one per day on an empty stomach. Increase 1 caplet a day until you are at 12 per day. Stay on that for 3 months and then back off one caplet a day until you are between 3-6 a day. This should be taken one hour apart from any medications you may be taking.

Omega-zyme (an enzyme mix) 1-3 caplets with EVERY meal or snack

Perfect Food (a green food mix) 2tbs. daily in water or fresh vegetable juice

Springs of Life (a mineral drop to make your purified water have a mineral content) use in your 8 8oz glasses of water a DAY

Super Seed (mucilaginous fiber) one serving a day with water

Goatein (this is a pre-digested protein powder)1-4 TBS per day mixed in juice, water, or smoothie, yogurt, or can be used in baking

BTW back to the diet, about vegetables-he says in another part of the book that IBS patients may not be able to digest raw veggies at first and could eat cooked, juiced,pureed, and fermented vegetables until they heal some.

drmayogini

April 16, 2008 - 3:21pm

Thankyou Louis,
i found this site by Googling "yoga after rectocele surgery"!
i didn't want any surgery that would prevent me from doing yoga,etc.
in the future.
Finally found the book and DVD, and have ordered them both.
Can't wait to start the excercises and get "lined up"!
My rectocele has been manageable for me, and i worry that tightening
up the fascia in-between the vagina and rectum without removing the
distention/pocket in the rectum would not allow me to
digitaly completely empty my bowels.
This is distressing to me, i wonder if anyone knows what i'm talking about?

Lately i've been noticing some other discomforts in the vaginal area and
i'm hoping it's not a uterine prolapse.
My nurse practitioner is great and works with me to narrow things down...
but when i visit the GYN her only response is HYSTERECTOMY...no rhyme or
reason!
The last thing i want is a painful surgery that may have other consequences
and complications down the road...and more surgeries :(

Yes, it was like Christmas for me to find this website and community!
Thanks for the heads-up on the new book...i'll be waiting,
Have a Namaste!
linda

drmayogini

April 16, 2008 - 4:48pm

Does anyone know if the estrogen in soy protein powder will help
with restoring some tissue elasticity the the vaginal area....
OR taking natural estrogen from the health food store.
i realize there are some health risks after menapause but i'm
willing to try if it allows me a better quality of life now so
i can continue my yoga, gardening, walks, etc. w/o the
possibility of a hysterctomy :(
Also, my rectocele was caused during my daughter's birth...the
cord was wrapped 2x around her neck and there was a large incision
made for the forceps...so i realize estrogen won't help as much
with the rectocele but might strengthen the vaginal wall??
Don't yell at me!
linda

louiseds

April 16, 2008 - 7:52pm

Hey Linda

Nobody yells at anybody here. We don't operate that way. If there is any yelling going on it is howls of frustration - venting, not directed at anybody here (I hope!). Your questions are all valid questions.

You might pick up that many Members wouldn't have anything to do with hormone replacement therapy. The core of Wholewoman is about pelvic organ prolapse, not menopause, so 'to my knowledge' Wholewoman has no policy on the advisability or otherwise of Hormone Replacement Therapy, though Christine Kent does have strong opinions on it, founded on her research and experience. Women's experiences will tell us what has worked for them, or not, as the case may be. It is all open for discussion. I think we need to remain open to anything until we are convinced one way or another by what we read, or try it for ourselves. I would personally rather avoid HRT, but I do know of women whose lives have been positively transformed by it. I wouldn't self-prescribe though, natural or manufactured. I would do it through a practitioner with qualifications, good accreditation and good reputation, not just go to the healthfoods store or pharmacy for advice.

Secondly, I would like to direct you and other Menopausal Members (now that has a ring to it!) to my favourite menopause website, The Jean Hailes Foundation, http://www.jeanhailes.org.au/. Sorry I couldn't make it a link. The Link thingy seems to have disappeared. They recently did a community webcast in Australia which is now on their website and available for download. It comes as a video (hi or low res) and accompanying slide presentation. Hope you can understand through their accents. The panel members are all quite well spoken and are experts in their own fields, so you should find it OK. The good thing about the Foundation is that it doesn't have any commercial interests, so no products are being pushed over others. They also have a heap of fact sheets and other info on their website.

There is a section in it that talks about the different sources of soy. There are also several sections in it where the panel members talk about different natural remedies and what they are useful for. I found it quite comprehensive, and learned quite a lot that I didn't know. They do touch on hormone replacement therapy, and talk quite a bit about plant derived hormones. They also debunk quite a few bits of misinformation.

Logic tells me that HRT will not help prolapse, because prolapse happens when the fascial and muscular supports of the pelvic organs are damaged. To my knowledge hormones don't have any effect on fascia, but I could be wrong there.

Have you tried using the search box on the left to look for posts that mention hormones, HRT, estrogen, oestrogen, and similar terms. We have probably discussed these topics in the past in general discussion. This Menopause and Prolapse Forum has only been going a few months. There are years of past posts.

Happy reading. Call back with questions and comments.

Louise