Time outs

Hi Blue

I really don't think it matters a great deal if you lean against the back of a chair, as long as there is room at the back of the chair for your butt to have plenty of room. Many chairs are just not designed for a woman's shape, and you can only slouch in them, particularly the stacking variety that we seem to spend so much time sitting in at meetings etc.

I remember seeing pictures of Australian indigenous women sitting on the ground under a tree in a circle with their legs out straight in front of them and their backs upright. I figure if it is good enough for them, it's good enough for me. After seeing that, I figured that the human form is designed for sitting without leaning against anything, so I decided to train myself to do it, chair or not. Now I am happy without a chair back. However, I do like sitting on the sofa, and just put a pillow behind my lumbar spine because I now find it more comfortable. I now find that slouching kind of annoys my body, so I don't tend to do it very often. I lie down a bit though.

I think it is probably important to give your body the opportunity to use all its muscles to their full extent, and allow the joints their full range of movement, which means that it is probably good to do actions that do allow you to tuck your butt in every now and then, just to get the full range of movement. Of course, when we walk, half of the pelvis is nutated and the other half nutated, so walking has to be good from that point of view. Getting on hands and knees and arching the back and relaxing it is also probably good because it allows you to move your lower spine in all directions without gravity trying to pull your organs out of your vagina. Deep bends from the hip and uncurling like a fern frond might do the same thing. There are probably others too.

Hunching and opening your shoulders is probably another way of getting upper back mobility. Not doing this may be contributing to my upper back pain problems. I am wondering if WW posture is essential for any loadbearing activity or situation where there are a lot of intraabdominal forces, but is less necessary when not under load. This would allow us to use more body positions, ie God gave us the ability to have full movement for a reason. To limit that movement to certain positions all the time might be counterproductive, at best, unproductive.

Having said that, I do not have prolapse symptoms 95% of the time, so maybe it is useful to be vigilant at all times, and just veg out a little bit. I think you have to work out for yourself what you can get away with, but I think being initially strict with yourself does set good posture as a way of life, and reprogram your body so you don't fight it as much as you would if it was just a 50/50 use. Also, if it is possible for the body to repair its own fascia I think it is advisable to give it the best posture you can, for as many hours of the day as you can, so it can do its own repair work in optimum configuration.

Louise

Dear Blue and Louise,

Ah-h-h-h…end of a busy day demonstrating perfect female posture and now I'm slouched to the max on our comfy couch. That’s right, “Christine…Sloucher Extraordinaire.”
However…to be a Truly Successful WWSloucher you must know the Secret: How to properly “pad the slouch.”

First of all…what good is slouching if you can’t Really Let it All Hang Out? To do this you’ll need:

1. A couch
2. A coffee table
3. 1 small throw pillow
4. 3 large throw pillows

Place one large pillow behind your back. The small pillow goes behind your lumbar curve. The second large pillow is placed on the coffee table on top of which you place your tired legs. The third large pillow sits on your lap to hold, what else…your laptop. You can even go crazy and put two bed pillows under each elbow.

Now all you need is a smarta** dh to stroll through the room and crow, “Oh, there she is…Ms. WWPosture herself…hahaha!”

I don’t know about any structural benefit to be gained by the WWSlouch…but I do know it’s Very good for the soul! Tomorrow my flexible spine will be oh-so-grateful to once again regain its gravity-fed shape for the hours I am upright.

I do not allow a chair back to take the weight of my spine during the day. But I have spent years holding my body in this way and it feels uncomfortable to be slouched while sitting. If you have to let go to relax the muscles and regroup – great, for however long it takes – but then try to pull yourself back into the posture. Remember…your head, shoulders, and relaxed lower belly (lifted chest) lead the way.

For me it’s all or nothing…perfectly pulled up or lusciously slouched down. I have always advised alternating sitting and standing posture with lots of rest…and I mean rest!

Hope this helps.

:) Christine

P.S. You were talking about bending over to retrieve toys and pick things up...this work has made me so very strong and flexible that I'm able to actualize that "wire-spoked bicycle wheel" scientists are now conceptualizing as a model for how the human body truly functions (or should function). Bending backwards and forwards is effortless.

P.S.S. I do a lot of slouching in bed too and have found it crucial to support the lumbar spine in that position...or else risk the sacroiliac joint displacing, which is ungodly painful.

Hey Christine

You forgot the port and the little expensive chocolate on the side! I endorse this sort of slouching too.

L

seems that upper back pain is somewhat common when getting used to the posture. could be nothing more than learning to use muscles that haven't been used in a while coupled with stretching out muscles that have gotten tight.

just a thought

Hey, Wholewomen

I just made up an exercise that seems to relieve it and has some longer term effect of keeping it away.

Stand in WW posture with your butt resting gently against a wall. My shoulder blades also touch the wall gently.

Now put both arms straight up in the air with backs of your hands gently against the wall and shoulders down a la WW.

Now move one hand up the wall as far as you can stretch it, while moving the other hand as far down the wall as you can, both elbows straight.

Now repeat it on the other side, and repeat both sides as many times as you want. It feels like crawling backwards up the wall with the backs of your hands. You will feel your shoulder blades moving up and down on the wall.

Keeping my butt and shoulder blades against the wall keeps my spine from wobbling around too much, which ensures that I am just relaxing and contracting my trapezoidal muscles and other upper body muscles to mobilise my shoulder blades and a bit of upper spine. There is not a lot of abdominal muscle involvement. This back to the wall position works for me, but my butt is pretty flat. Other women might need to find a different way to stabilise the spine while doing this.

I had a really sore area on my spine just above my bra for a couple of weeks, which was worst in the early hours of the morning, but it has completely gone now. I came up with this exercise when I realised that my trapezoidal muscles were probably weak, cos they were not able to move a lot because I have had a lot of upper back and shoulder stiffness which was freezing me up. Also, my traps were probably trying too hard to hold my shoulder blades down.

Sport science people and Granolamom, does this exercise make sense anatomically?

Cheers

Louise

I tried your exercise louise. I think I'm doing it wrong, or maybe I've got more junk in my trunk than you do, lol. had to really arch my low back to stand against the wall. and my shoulders are pretty weak I think, so they got a bit sore after a few reps. was very active in the traps the whole time, on both sides. will have to try it again after thinking it through some more, as you've seen, I'm a sloooow thinker these days.

anyway, what I like to do to relieve upper back soreness/stiffness, or anywhere in the back really, is to get down on all fours. exaggerate the lumbar curve, letting your belly down as far as you can and sticking the bum way out and up. then reverse it so that you tuck your bottom (I know, I know) and arch your back up. think of a black cat on a witch's broom, only keep your head down. you should feel a stretch across the upper back. I do this with some firebreathing type breathing and it feels so good. especially when pg.

I think (maybe alemama knows this one, its been a while for me) that the traps primarily hold the shoulder blades back. the lats will help keep them down.
I think that the reason so many of us get that soreness in the beginning is because we're so used to leaning on our ligaments, so the traps get overstretched to allow for rolling forward shoulders. when you stand up in ww posture, those traps have to *work*. and an overstretched muscle is a weak muscle so they protest.

baby's up from nap. will check back later

Hi Gmom

I figured everybody would be different, and that it would not work for some women. This worked for me to get rid of my sore spot, and has made sleeping a full night a possibility. Mind you, I did have my heels strapped by a podiatarist from Wednesday to Sunday to try and stabilise my ankles. That may have evened up my leg length a bit, so I may be standing more evenly. It is confusing when you take several measures at the same time. The body is so amazing (here I go again) the way all the little bits combine their functions together to make an efficient action. I guess as long as I am getting better progressively I must be doing something right.

BTW, doing it sitting in WW posture on my stook at my desk seems to work as well, better than standing anyway.

Cheers

Louise