rectocele misery

Digital evacuation. Keep gloves and lube on hand. But really, Fleet enemas should do the trick.

For me, the trapped stool usually happens when i don't get to the toilet
immediately when i need to eliminate. The stools push into a pocket where
the rectum has become distended...into the vaginal canal, or inside me.
I find it more problematic when the pocket is inside because i can't
empty the rectocele manually. When the rectocele protrudes into my vagina
I can use a piece of toilet paper to push the contents out.

If you experience pain and tearing of the anus when you evacuate, you
might try using a stool softener....I find an evening glass of wine helps
mine!

Sometimes back pain can be from kidneys, so be sure you don't have any
bladder or kidney infections...obvious or not. This can all be part of the
pelvic organ prolapse "constellation". Mine started with the rectocele
several years before the uterus/bladder prolapse became obvious...
and one of the problems with a prolapsed bladder is repeated infections
(due to the bladder's inability to completely empty),
which can migrate to your kidneys. I drink water and take 500 mg of Vit.C
(with food) per day to keep my urine "acid" so bacteria are less likely
to grow.

Sometimes abdominal pain can go along with gas.
Carbohydrates can cause gas. As the yeasts in your gut digest the carbs they
produce gas. Refined sugars are especially bad, and we all know beans
are notorious! I make sure I eat some yogurt everyday with "live cultures"...
the bacteria eat the overgrowth of yeast and help digest your food for you
so you can get the nutrients needed.

To help get rid of the gas immediately you can try some yoga positions. First,
lay on your back and pull your knees up to your chest, then alternate with
the "child's pose"...sit on your heels and lean forward, gently touching your
chest on your thighs with arms out in front on the floor. These postures can
sometimes help the gas escape.

Pain in the rectum i don't know about unless you have hemmoroids or you're
tearing the tissue??? Be sure your getting protein and vit. C which are
needed to heal tissue...and see the doctor!

It is important you have these aches and pains checked out IMMEDIATELY if
these alternative methods don't help. Prolonged, undiagnosed kidney infections
are SERIOUS.

I used to think my rectocele was a big problem until i went to the OBGYN and
her solution was a hysterectomy!...
Since then, the uterus and bladder have begun to prolapse and my rectocele has
receded "inside" where it is much more difficult to evacuate.
I became depressed and then pro-active.
I found this website and it has given me some tips.
I'm learning to live with and accomodate my condition without having it run
my life....and i've learned it could be worse!

Ladies,

We've been talking a lot about dry vaginas. What about dry bowels? Perhaps the constipation problem is really dry rectum. Perhaps some kind of lubricant either taken by mouth or applied would help.

Lots of talk about things that push poop out, but if the area is dry, isn't that just going increase the misery?

Judy

Women that have had episiotomies when giving birth are at risk for
rectoceles and....
after menapause when ALL your tissues start to lose their elasticity,
it is possible for the rectal tissue to become distended, creating a
pocket that can then push it's way through the the damaged fascia
caused by the episiotomy, into the vagina....a rectocele is born.

Dry/hard or soft/moist stools can still "pool" in the rectocele pocket.

the pocket you are talking about- is this what they call diverticulitis?

I just googled diverticulitis. I think it is quite different, but related. Diverticulitis happens when there is constipation and a lot of pressure is needed to evacuate the bowel. A little pocket forms in the lining of the intestine and herniates out through the muscular wall, kind of like a bubblegum bubble. The bowel contents get trapped in the pocket and it is all downhill from there, and potentially life threatening.

The similarities are in the need to prevent constipation and straining at stool, the need to listen when your body needs a poo, and the need for a high fibre diet to keep stool soft and the contents moving along. Also it is a result of intraabdominal pressure inappropriately directed.

I think Drmayogini is right, saying that a rectocele can cause a bit of the rectum to become distended, as well as kinked, and this distended bit (pocket) can become like deadwater in a river, an extra bit where there is not much water flow, so some bits may get caught there, especially if the woman is not able to push it back to straight to allow it to empty. That's when it would become like diverticulitis, but as it is not pushing through a muscular intestinal wall like a diverticulum, it can usually return to its normal position quite easily, eg by splinting via the vagina.

A diverticulum is not easily returned, as inflammation and infection makes it bigger, so it won't fit back through the hole it originally escaped through, and you can't get a finger up there to splint it back before it becomes troublesome!

I hope this is right. It seems logical to me.

Louise

Is it normal to feel full in the rectom area with a rectocele?Can poo get built up there like especially in the afternoon and night and cause great discomfort and have to wait to go to the bathroom in the morning? I did not know a rectocele could be so dehibilitating. Just don't want to walk around. I have been getting the trapped stool and just want to say take it all out and give me a bag or whatever. Is this the same with you. Any advice. I do not even want to put food in my body anymore. The bulge doesn't bother me so much as the rectocele. Funny, a uro gyn woman said I did not have one and a 25 year rectal specialist from NY said I did. So who do you believe/ Feels like a rec darn well to me

Hi Heavenly

Yes, this happens to me sometimes. It usually resolves with the morning poo, so I don't worry about it too much. It drives me nuts to not be able to respond to the call of nature, but I think it is just my brain trying to play tricks on me. I don't *let* it bother me any more. There is no point in worrying about something that will be gone after breakfast the next day.

One way I can can help it along if it is during the day is to do a few Lopo rises and half-sits, either on the toilet with my knickers around my ankles, or just anywhere, fully dressed. Do a few every hour or so. Eventually the rectum gets the message and reconfigures itself back to a more normal shape. I think all the pelvic floor muscles kind of massage the rectum back into a sausage shape, rather than an egg shape. At least that's the way I visualise it. Think 'squeezing plasticene'.

It won't work immediately, but it does seem to gradually reduce the pressure feeling. Next time you have the urge for a poo I think you will find that it will be a relatively normal shape. I think it is important to normalise what is happening in your body as much as possible because nerves cannot do their signalling jobs properly if they are stretched or squashed. At least if you can keep the nerves happy you will feel the sensations you are supposed to feel, when you are supposed to feel them, so you can respond to them in a timely and appropriate way. Messed up signals = messed up defaecation.

Recently I discovered that my coccyx hooks inwards severely. I have noticed that the whole area around my anus gets distended if there is a big poo in there that won't come out. I think what has happened is that the tissues that used to be attached to the bottom of my coccyx have torn off it, either during childbirth or maybe from years and years of tucking my butt under, so my bum crack is virtually non-existent when I sit. There is a really tight ridge of tissue, the middle of which I am sure should be fastened down onto the outside of my coccyx. I think it is the bottom edge of the ligament/tendon(?) that joins the two gluteus maximus muscles together in the centre. It runs across the join between my buttocks and can get quite tender if it gets stretched tight.

As a result of this I think my rectum gets down the back, into the space between this ridge and my hooked coccyx, as well as forwards into my vagina. For all I know my rectum could be like a ball sometimes. It certainly feels like it when I poke my finger into the skin all around my anus (disturbing visual here!

So get some LoPo happening (use the search box if you don't know what I mean), get some visualisation happening, and have a poke around the outside of your anus and see what it feels like.

Above all, don't *worry* about it. Just respond to what you find. It is a big self awareness / self knowledge thing. The more you learn, the more you know, and the more sense you can make of the hidden parts of your body. It is your body. You have the right to know these things. Without knowing about them you cannot do anything about the bits that are not working right. Your body carries you around faithfully every day, and has for your whole life. Be its friend.

Louise

Hi Heavenly

Yes, the build up is a problem! I have just come out of a bad couple of weeks caused by similar. I also didn't want to walk around and just felt like sitting down all the time. I will share what helped me as I am now feeling much better and have been told at this stage due to the improvement I won't need a pessary :-)

Slippery elm tablets - to keep things more regular, softens stool and modifies bowel flora. Once you get things going a bit more I think the pocket gets a bit smaller and the cycle is broken.

My physio explained that if we miss the 'urge to go' which is triggered by stool in the rectum telling the brain to send signals to the bowel to open - then that stool will sit there until 'more stool enters'. So it is imperative that you never put off any urges. I sorta knew this but didn't know that if you miss the signal there won't be another urge until more stool enters the rectum! So if you have had stool build up in the afternoon there should be an urge at some stage - do not put it off. Unless the stool in the afternoon is due to you not emptying your bowels in the morning?

For going to the toilet I had huge improvements from using a foot stool to put my feet on. Leaning forward with elbows on knees and bulging out the stomach. This ensured I never, never strain, even unconscioulsy and I find that everything just works when I do this.

I also find if I don't go a second time in the day I start to feel bad again. But the above things seem to help and now I am getting better urges and emptying twice a day.

To trigger morning urge to go - a glass of warm water - or lemon juice in warm water is helpful.

I hope things improve for you too.

I have found that I might be taking too much fiber and that really irritated the rectocele. I am a great believer in slippery elm and all its many benefits. I think I was taking too much so will go back to 1 TBS in water one time a day and make other adjustments. I have my elm sent from my naturpath in Montana who has it shipped in from another country. He adds other ingredients to it . He has his own mixture with senna and ginger. Works great but did not need it twice a day. Thanks for the reminder. If I take too much fiber in the morning it fills in my pocket by 3 o'clock and then it stays there causing great discomfort so have changed. Don't even start fiber until after supper or just before then it doesnt move down til morning which is our natural design evacuation time. It really is just trial and error and what works for our individual types. Will get a stool and try your recommendations. Thanks for getting back to me. You have been so helpfull. Capsules of apple pectin help greatly too but did not have good luck with the psysillum husks(spelling)
I take 2 tbs of freshly ground golden flax seed daily and that is a life saver. Again got to make sure I do not take more than that. Again, can not take the fiber things til after dinner or supper to keep the food from lodging in its rec pocket. I figure let it lodge during the night then I will go in the morning and that works fine.

Love Ya
Heavenly

Hi Heavenly

Yes, I agree too much fiber is not a good thing at all I have found similar to you. It is all about trial and error isn't it. So helpful to find out what helps other people too.

Take care

Hi Louise,
Sorry to be such a bother. I pushed search but it just said to LoPo but not really clear how? Can you explain more please. Also no one answered my question about nauli. Is it like the firebreathing but rolling your stomach around like the video? Is it rotating your lower, middle area but still breathing in to push stomach out and breathing out to haul the upper area back and in . Like the fire breathing but moving middle area like a circle. Confused but do you understand what I am saying. I watch the tape but not getting it. So frustrated. How often a day should I be doing these things? Just want to get it all figured out once and for all. Yes the area around my anus gets very extended and hemroides pop out. Hope that is what it is. They go right back in after I poo. Heck of a conversation. Inversion? Could't find that in search.

Thanks
Jackie

Nauli is an established element of yoga. If you google it, you will come across lots of written instructions. YouTube is also an excellent resource. It is quite a coordination feat, but definitely attainable with practice. Maybe you will be able to find a video clip or a set of instructions that "click" for you. Best wishes.

Didn't realize Nauli had to do with yoga. Will check it out!

Here is the thread you are looking for, heavenly:
http://www.wholewoman.com/drupal-6.16/node/2981

Oh my gosh! I was totally unaware that a prolapsed rectum or vagina could lead to such kidney issues. When going by your description, it makes a TON of sense! You call it a "constellation." I call it a "domino effect." Regardless of how you phrase it, it all means the same thing. If the bowels or bladder are unable to expel waste properly, then it would directly effect the kidneys, no? One problem essentially leads to another.

I'm curious though: if one doesn't treat a prolapsed rectum/vagina immediately, how badly could this effect the kidneys? Would it hinder the function of the kidneys to the point where one would need a transplant? I wouldn't say I'm at risk for a transplant just yet (thank goodness), but I want to be prepared. Living in Indiana, I want to find a hospital that has a department that specializes in transplants. Does iu health have a department devoted to transplants? Just curious.

Thanks, all! Sorry for the late response. I only discovered this thread now. ;)

There is an increase incidence of UTI with cystocele. This is easily mitigated by the WW work, where we empty the bladder in ways that tip the bladder into its anatomic position for emptying. If you re-read Drmayogini's post, this is what she is referring to. A rectocele that is not worked with to reduce the size of the pocket and facilitate natural elimination could become a general health concern. Women who are surgically managed for prolapse often have graver concerns, not pertinent to our discussion. To equate prolapse with ultimate need for a kidney transplant is reflected nowhere in medical literature.

Christine