rectocele and colonscopy

Welcome to the forum! I'm so glad that you found us. It sounds like you've been doing some research here already, which is a good thing. There is so much to learn from the wonderful members here, but also from Christines book 'Saving the Whole Woman'. I'm reading it for the second time, and am still learning new things.

I'm so glad that you asked the question about the colonscopy. I'm 59 and have never had one done. My doctor is harping on it, but I am hesitating, due to the same concerns you have.

I went to the search box and read all of the posts about this topic several weeks ago. Most of them are fairly old, and I'm hoping that maybe someone can shed some new information on this since the last time it was discussed.

Right now I'm holding off on having one - I'm just afraid of the possible complications. I have a uterine prolapse and small cystocele. I'm not sure if I have a rectocele, but more than likely it's there, but is being held back by the UP.

Anyway, I hope any members who have had a colonscopy will share their experience.

Again - welcome...

Goldfinch

'Life is not holding a good hand; Life is playing a poor hand well'

Hi KM

Sounds like you are pretty well-informed and will be able to deal with anything the doctors dish up to you. I would suggest asking the doctor what information he wants to gain from the colonoscopy. It does not sound like a nice procedure. He may be able to get that same information from other less invasive tests. eg we now have in Australia fecal occult tests for bowel cancer, where they test a very small sample of stool for cells which would reveal the presence of cancer.

The other thing that springs to mind is that I have just, at the age of 55, had my first string of a few months without a period, then a very short bleed, so I think I am at last at menopause stage, rather than perimenopause. Over the last eight months my body has done some really strange things, including one particular episode of labour contraction pain which was continuous for a couple of hours, and quite crippling. It was a couple of days before a period. It recurred in a less major way the following month. You could try doing some inward looking and diary these pains and any other symptoms of dis-ease that you experience and see if they are indeed connected with anything else menstrual-cycle-wise. Just cos you don't have a period doesn't mean your reproductive organs have ceased to operate. It just means that there is not enough oestrogen oomph to induce ovulation, and there is too much Luteiniising hormone (?) for a bleed to occur two weeks after. Your body continues to try to ovulate for a while, so you still have a cycle of hormonal ups and downs but not enough to make it work as it used to. This cycle eventually settles down to almost no fluctuations, but it might take until you are 70, or it might happen quite quickly. In this whole menopause era of life the hormones don't necessarily lie down quietly and go to sleep. They can swing wildly, as if in paroxysms of struggle, preceding death. Almost anything can happen symptomwise, as hormones active in the reproductive system have receptors in many parts of the body and produce effects elsewhere, which IMHO is why a lot of menopausal women end up in doctors' surgeries trying to find the reasons for weird symptoms they have never experienced before.

Unfortunately many symptoms mimic serious diseases, so it is not a good idea to ignore them completely. Search 'menopause' in the site search box, (particularly Clonacmoise' posts) to read about all the strange things that have happened to us.

BTW, the story about prolapse getting worse at menopause is not born out by the research literature. Mine started to be symptomatic to the point of exploring my options for treatment about 4 years ago, though they were there before. You could say I was perimenopausal at the time. I started WW techniques straight away, before visiting the gyno, and while they did change, and straighten up just over 12 months ago, resulting in a temporary worsening, they are now very manageable, and my cervix is almost unreachable a lot of the time, never descending as far as the introitus, unless I bear down with my pelvis tipped back. I trust that my body will continue to do its own supportive work now I know how to carry myself and amend my activities to accommodate these POPs. I live a normal unlimited life and have a healthy sex life, do belly dancing, and other dance a couple of times a week, do some quite hard physical work at times and generally get on with life. Had I not discovered Wholewoman I am convinced that my prolapses would have worsened considerably, given my level of physical activity, and the wives' tale of menopausal worsening would have been sell-fulfilling. Instead I am so thankful that Christine literally saved my uterus with her work, so it can accompany me to the grave, and give me painfree pleasure without periods for many years to come.

It is not menopause that worsens the prolapses. The worsening is caused by carrying your whole body, with its pelvic organs and their life-damaged fascial supports badly, feeding, clothing and using your body in ways that exacerbate the effects of unnatural posture, and not recognising what you can do to carry your body gracefully into old age.

Dr Christiane Northrup, in her book, Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom, refers to women thinking with their brain bodies, ie we think and feel everything with our whole bodies, not just our hearts and brains. Stresses and old unresolved experiences, either explicit or hidden, often account for dis-ease, and IMHO, often surface around menopause when a woman is in another of life's transitions, a change in her way of living her life, a bit like the often rocky transition from first to second stage of labour. eg like an old car that will go along city roads quite happily for years, but take it on a long trip over mountains and deserts and it will soon show up its hidden weaknesses and perhaps betray a lack of good maintenance and evidence of cheap repairs earlier in its life. Menopause can be, if nothing else, a marathon of mountains and deserts for our brain bodies as we leave reproduction behind us.

I suggest that you sharpen up your life at bit at this stage, and pay particular attention to feeding it well, keep (or start keeping) your body supple and strong, if it is not already, respect its needs, and work on what might be struggling for attention in your life.

The little bleed I just had was exactly two weeks after my oldest son, who has been living at home, and spread all over the house with his very big personality, loud music, constant TV (and very good culinary skills too, I might add!), announced that he had finally got the job he wanted, and was gone within that two weeks after a maelstrom of activity related to assessing his needs for furniture and other house requirements, as well as finding a house to rent in a city four hours' drive away. Now he has gone, I have bled, and we all feel more human again after this 'washing machine' experience. My dermatitis also seems to be suddenly going away too. We love him dearly, but bodies do strange things when stressed.

Hope this might shed some light for you.

Cheers

Louise

is that to do one of those procedures they have to flush the intestine. That means you will poo for days in preparation. In the past an intestinal bug has set me back pretty good - a few weeks at least before my bulge went back to normal. So I am sure you will return to normal- it just may take a little while. I guess with everything you weigh it-

In my humble opinion. I'm not qualified to say with authority - it's just my theory. And actually humble doesn't really describe it anyway. :-)

proctalgia fugax (rather than flux) perhaps? I think it is unexplained pain in the area of the rectum, (otherwise known as pain in the butt) which is basically what you described to the doctor first up, eh? The old "rephrase the symptoms and feed them back to the awe-filled patient as a diagnosis" trick, eh? No, I am being inappropriately flippant! But seriously, it has a name, but does not seem to have a cause, from what I read briefly. Still, it's best to rule out the nasties, I suppose, then you can rest easy.

I think I would be going for the unexpected symptom of menopause. I only got it once really badly, two days before a period, and now I think about it, it did feel more in the area of the vagina than the uterus. That did puzzle me a bit at the time. However, so close to menopause I guess the uterus is much smaller, so maybe it just feels different?
I managed to get myself to a pharmacy and buy some Ponstan. I could hardly walk into the shop, but the pain was gone half an hour after I took a dose, just like period pain, and I had no further pain. I was pretty stressed out the morning the pain came on. The following month it was just fleeting pain, for a couple of minutes, again exactly two days before a bleed. But yes, ask your doctor about other ways of finding out what she wants to know. I did go and ask the doctor about it next time I was there and ended up being referred for a transvaginal ultrasound (guess what? It showed that I had prolapses. Tee-hee!) and a renal system ultrasound (From that I learned that I am now successfully emptying my bladder. Yay! It works!) Everything turned out to be absolutely normal, which was nice. I won't worry about it if it happens again.

That was in November 2007 when I had the nasty pain. I had regular, though shorter periods in December, January, February, March and April, then a tiny, brownish bleed last week. I am hoping that might be the end of it, but the best laid plans ...

Cheers

Louise

Hi Goldfinch & Karrymae,

I had a colonoscopy in 2005 at the age of 58. The doctors started hounding me about having one at that magical age of 50. I was reluctant to have one for several reasons. First of all, because of the risks, I am always hesitant to have any medical procedure done to my body unless it is absolutely necessary. Secondly, the procedure is done to see if, perhaps, one is having a problem. I know it's wise to have one in your fifties, but I just found it so hard to go looking for problems, especially using what I considered such an invasive procedure. Last, and not least, several times I watched my husband go through the awful prep they have you do the night before the procedure. At he time he had his first one, at the ripe old age of 50 (he does everything by the book!) the prep was just awful. Over time it has gotten much better and when I finally had my colonoscopy, the prep was not bad at all, although it was no party that's for sure!

After explaining the risks and benefits of the procedure and the sedation, I was rolled into a room where the doctor and his staff started a pleasant conversation with me. I was hooked up to an IV and the next thing I knew I was in a different room with my husband who kept saying the procedure was over. I kept insisting that it couldn't be. I was sure nothing had happened. It was that uneventful. I got up, got dressed, went home and then out to dinner that night.

I never even mentioned my 3rd stage cystocele to them because I knew it would disappear when I was lying down. Thinking about that now, I am not sure that was wise. It couldn't have hurt for me to mention it and I guess there's a chance it could have been a problem. Who knows what my cystocele does when I'm under sedation!

They did not find any polyps (they did with my husband which is why he's had several colonoscopies) but they did find some diverticula and some medium sized hemorroids that were not giving me a problem. They recommended adding more fiber to my diet and having this procedure done again in 5 years.

That's my colonoscopy story. Hope it helps. I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have if I can.

Warm regards,

Mae

Mae:
Thanks for sharing your experience - it was very helpful!

Do you know what position you were in when the procedure was done? Did they put your feet into stirrups, roll you over onto your stomach, or something else? I know you were already under sedation, but did you happen to ask afterwards?

I had a sigmoidosopy done once which is similar to a colonoscopy, and to have that procedure you are on your stomach.

Thanks.

Goldfinch

'Life is not holding a good hand; Life is playing a poor hand well'

Hi Goldfinch,

I think they had me lying on my side, but I'm not positive. I woke up on my side, but it is possible I was on my back before the procedure began. I know I wasn't on my stomach to begin with because I am always uncomfortable in that position and I surely would remember that. I was definitely not in stirrups.

I had a sigmoid as well, many years ago. I remember being pretty uncomfortable with that because I was awake and aware, although I think they did give me something to make me relax a little. The colonoscopy was a breeze compared to that.

Regards,

Mae

Hi Karrymae

Sound thinking, lady.

It has been interesting watching this topic and seeing how we, as women, can come to a difficult situation and mull it over with other women, almost thinking out loud, gathering information from the experiences of others, adding it to the pot, stirring it and coming out the other end with a new perspective.

It's also interesting that you initially neglected to include your fibroids in the formula. I guess you just live with them, in the same way as we eventually manage to live with prolapses, not thinking about them all the time, but subconsciously considering them. I don't have them, but from my reading it sounds like they do grow and grumble a lot as we reach menopause (which is where you are surely heading), then just go to sleep and shrink as the uterus gets smaller and the hormones settle after cessation of menstruation. I hope you can get through menopause OK without having to deal with any of this surgically.

Write all your questions down so you remember to get all the answers you need from the doctor before making decisions about your own health.

Cheers

Louise

Hi Goldfinch;

I had mine about 5 years ago due to blood in my stool. They had me on my side curled up but not tight as a fetal position. I had not as yet developed a rectocele so that was not an issue but I will definately discuss it with them next time which I am not rushing into because for me the procedure was a nightmare. I was terrified going in, beyond all reason, crying uncontrollably from the time I began taking off my clothes, crying and shaking so hard they had trouble getting the needle in for the sedation and then the sedation DID NOT WORK. They gave me three doses then sort of shrugged and said well here we go anyway and I was wide awake and fully aware through the whole thing. Now it did not hurt, per se, but the feeling of it was nearly intolerable and I cried for hours afterwards.

They kept asking me what was wrong and I didn't know except for the obvious - SOMEONE WAS SHOVING SOMETHING ALL THE WAY UP MY BUTT - but the good news for anybody else is they were all so freaked out about it that it seems that must be highly unusual and not something to be expected at all. The funny part was that the Valium kicked in about half an hour after I left and I fell out in the car (I wasn't driving, my daughter drove me in and she said they kept coming out to ask her if she was aware of any reason this procedure should be so traumatic for me) and slept for four hours which my daughter said was what should have happened then.

The other good news was the blood was coming from internal hemmorhoids (spelling) and nothing more ominous than that.

Cynthia

Cynthia,

I am in total sympathy with you. I would have probably had a heart attack before I ever got to the table. This is my big cowardice in life. On the other hand, I think this thing is a lot of hype. Here the procedure costs $3000.00 and is considered surgery. The very idea sends me into panic mode.

Panic often will not allow medication to work.

Blessings,

Judy

Thanks for sharing your experience. I can't believe they went through with the exam even though you were still awake! Terrible!!

My sister just had a colonoscopy several weeks ago. It was uneventful, except that the doctor told her afterwards that the length of his 'scope' tubing was not long enough to reach to the end of her intestines, and that she should come back for a 'virtual' colonoscopy. $$$ ca-ching $$$ ca-ching $$$. Needless to say, she is not going back. She had cancelled about 4 appointments before she gathered up enough nerve to finally go and have it done that one time.

I know I must weigh the risks (my father had non-cancerous polyps removed during his colonoscopy). But my mother lived to be 88 and she never had the procedure done.

It's so good to hear what other people have to say. If and when I go, I'll come back here to report. Hopefully we can keep this thread alive with anyone who has the test in the future and if it effects their prolapse.

Goldfinch

'Life is not holding a good hand; Life is playing a poor hand well'

Hi Karrymae

Firstly height. Yes, I am indeed just over half an inch taller than my stable adult height as well. I discovered this about two years ago when I had been doing posture for a couple of years. I think a lot of osteoporosis spinal fractures and pain are caused by bad posture, rather than the opposite way around. Sure the bones become less dense anyway, but you can help them considerably by standing upright. If you curve a straight line for long enough it will break down on the underside. WW posture will keep the upper spine balanced and supported both the front and back.

Re the colonoscopy, we had quite a discussion about this only a couple of weeks ago. Plug it 'colonoscopy' into the Search box and find the discussion. (I don't think it was you.) I cannot advise you medically re the colonoscopy, other than to say that these 50th birthday presents seems to be de rigeur in the USA. This is not so everywhere in the world. I received a little poo test kit in the mail from the Australian Dept of Health for my 55th birthday this year. It is a fecal occult blood test that is a good indicator of whether or not a colonoscopy is warranted. I had to collect two little tiny samples on sticks after a bowel motion and send them off for testing. They came back negative which pleases me. You might like to ask your doctor about this initial test before feeding the USA medical system and submitting your body to invasive procedures.

Cheers

Louise

Hi Karrymae,

This is my first time on this forum. I am excited about the openness in discussing all events in our lives...nothing should be TMI since we all have the same parts and operate the same way!

As to the colonoscopy...I've had 2. Both were done after I knew I had a cystocele and a rectocele. No problems with either -cele during or after the prep or procedure. You lie on your left side for the entire procedure. I do not use the harsh laxatives prescribed for the prep in the USA. I use 2 teaspoons of sea salt in 1 quart of cool drinking water. Shake it up and drink it quickly...not very tasty. Follow by drinking clear water. This recipe MUST be done on an empty stomach or you won't evacuate. Since you can't eat for 12-24 hours before the procedure, there is no problem with this method. Within an hour you will have your first bowel movement. I continue to use this recipe until the evacuated water runs clear. Be sure to drink plenty of water during the day, as you will feel very thirsty from the salt. And be sure to use celtic sea salt, as it has the trace minerals you need. I didn't bother to tell the surgeon that I did the prep this way, as she would have objected; however, the colonoscopy showed no stool in the colon, so it works.

As for whether or not to have a colonoscopy...I have a few thoughts. I was 52 when I had my first at the urging of my family doctor. No symptoms, other than some constipation during perimenopause. No family history. The surgeon did remove a couple polyps that were biopsied, one was pre-cancerous. So I had a repeat colonoscopy 3 years later...the surgeon removed a couple of small non-cancerous polyps.

I don't have a lot of faith in many procedures that are suggested as we grow older. I almost decided against the first colonoscopy because there seemed to be no particular reason to have it other than I was past 50. I'm glad I had it, since the pre-cancerous polyp was found. Had I never had a colonoscopy done, by this time - almost 7 years later - I might well have cancerous polyps growing. All polyps are removed immediately, so there's nothing questionable left in you after the procedure. Before my second procedure, which I almost decided to put off for a year or two, my mother-in-law had colon cancer surgery and chemotherapy. She said she'd had a colonoscopy 14 years earlier, they had removed polyps and she just never got around to having another procedure when she should have. She had no symptoms until the morning she passed huge amounts of blood while having a bowel movement. Needless to say, I scheduled my procedure and had it done at the 3 year mark as the surgeon requested. The next procedure is due at 5 years, as the polyps removed were not pre-cancerous. If this one shows no pre-cancer or cancer, I can wait 8-10 years before the next colonoscopy.

In replying to the other comments, I don't wish to diminish any one else's experience. We all have our comfort and tolerance levels for all things medical. It is sad that our medical establishment doesn't take the time to be sure that all patients are comfortable and knowledgeable about procedures, rather than subjecting them to what becomes a terrifying experience.

At this time in my life, I choose to do most of my health care through alternative healing...acupuncture, traditional chinese medicine and herbs, chiropractic, reiki, massage, healthful eating with slow foods and cooking, naturopathic health care,even digital thermography instead of mammograms. In this light, I am thrilled to have come upon the Whole Women website, forum, book and way of working with my cystocele and rectocele. I have always known there was some reason I never let any gynecologist talk me into surgery; I just didn't know why until now!

Hi Kenskid2:

Welcome to this forum! How wonderful that you've found your way here!

Thank you for your post. I've been anxious to hear from people who have prolapses and who have had a colonoscopy. It sounds like you breezed through the procedure with no effects on your prolapses. That is indeed good news.

Many years ago, my father had it done and some polyp's were removed - I believe they were pre-cancerous. Having a colonoscopy is the only way doctors can find polyps and then remove them immediately. Most insurance companies in the USA encourage and pay for the test with no questions asked. It really is the Gold standard for preventing colon cancer, which so often starts with polyps.

I am leaning toward having the test done. Thank you again so much for sharing your experience.

Goldfinch

'Life is not holding a good hand; Life is playing a poor hand well'

Hi Goldfinch,

After the first colonoscopy, where potentially cancerous polyps were removed, I have no problem continuing to get the procedure done. In the USA, insurance usually pays for the first "screening" colonoscopy at age 50 (unless there is a family history, then it pays earlier). Thereafter, insurance pays based on the re-screening request of the surgeon if polyps were found. Otherwise, the price of the procedure can be prohibitive. However, the price of colon cancer surgery and followup is much more costly in dollars, health and wellbeing.

One of the reasons I don't object to colonoscopy is that it is a straight-forward procedure where any problems are immediately dealt with. That would be my objection to visual colonoscopy - if a polyp is seen, you have to prep again and have a physical colonoscopy done to remove the polyp for biopsy.

Some members have commented on the testing for occult blood in the stool. These tests are actually done to see if there is blood anywhere in the entire colon and small intestine. They won't tell you if you have polyps that may become a problem. This test is usually done every year or two, whereas a colonoscopy is done anywhere from 3-10 years, depending on your situation.

I've gotten rather off the topic of colonoscopy with cysto and rectoceles, but feel it is important to research colonoscopy, talk with others who've had it done, talk with your doctors and make an informed decision to meet your own needs.

Kenskid2

"Wisdom is learning what to overlook."

Thanks Kenskid2. I concur with everything you've said. I think, based upon all of the information that I have gathered over that past several months, that I will schedule the procedure soon (need to convince my husband to go too!)

Thanks again for sharing.

Goldfinch

'Life is not holding a good hand; Life is playing a poor hand well'

glad you made it through the procedure. How is your prolapse feeling? sorry you were not able to figure out what the "pain in the butt" is. Your theory sounds pretty good - if it coincides with your cycle it must have something to do with hormones or the weight or position of the uterus.
It is so useful to hear your experience- Thanks for posting.

Good for you! Now you have peace of mind. Yes, the prep is definitely worse than the procedure... that's for sure. Glad you are doing well.

Warm regards,

~Mae