If you decide to have surgery, here are a few tips.

Submitted by Tinkerbell5 on October 19, 2008 - 3:35pm
Body: 

After 10 years with a rectocele (which got worse with each of three children), I was uncomfortable enough to resort to surgery.

I looked for a surgeon who had done at least 100 rectocele repairs and who did not use mesh in the repair. I looked for someone whom I felt was listening to me. I found that I often got very candid answers about gyn doctors by calling a labor and delivery floor of the local hospital. If you call late at night, the nurse's desk is often (but not always) quiet. You can tell the nurse you are worried about having gyn surgery. Say, "If you were having rectocele surgery, would you want Dr. Smith to do it?" They will often be willing to tell you the truth -- and they often have an accurate impression of gyn surgical skill, since they are there for the c-sections that are done.

If you decide to have surgery, know that it's normal to be worried. How could you not be? Try to do deep breathing and give yourself over to the spiritual life within you for strength. For the day of the surgery, my sister gave me a "mantra" which proved extremely helpful to me. It was just the line of an old hymn, "Be Not Afraid," but it helped me very much. I just kept thinking it. Once you have done the research and decided that this is what you have to do, "Be Not Afraid" is all that's left to do.

I was glad to have an iPod to listen to in the hospital -- both while waiting for the surgery and for afterwards. If the waiting room has a TV with a news show playing, don't be afraid to ask someone to change the channel. The news is hardly relaxing!

Allow yourself to really experience the kindness of the nurses and medical staff. They tend to be very kind and caring. It's amazing how much a sqeeze of the hand or a smile can reassure you.

Two things I really wish I had known to buy before the surgery:

1. A peri bottle. These are the plastic squeeze bottles they often give out after childbirth for perineal cleansing. I had trouble urinating after they removed the catheter after the rectocele surgery. A nurse was kind enough to go to the labor and delivery area to get a peri bottle for me. Using it to gently squeeze out a flow of warm water on the perineal area makes it SO much easier to urinate. They should give one to every woman after pelvic surgery.

2. Colace stool softener. I wish I had brought these along so I could have taken one after recovery. The nurses recommended it when I was going home the day after the surgery -- but they don't provide it. This product isn't a laxative -- which would be too strong right after surgery. It just helps keep things soft and easy to move. The pain medications they will probably give you tend to slow down your body systems, including your bowels. This can result in constipation. Your health food store probably sells something that works the same way as Colace. Another tip about that first bowel movement -- don't be worried if even three or four days pass before it comes. You won't have eaten before surgery, so there isn't a lot in your system. Just wait until nature calls! When it does, sit on the toilet with your feet up on a low stool (or even wear clogs) to get your knees elevated. This helps the bowels do their thing.

3. A douche bottle. I had never used one of these in my life! Your doctor may recommend cleaning with one after surgery. Mine suggested a water mixture with 30% hydrogen peroxide. (This is because the variety of bacteria that can colonize in the vagina are oxygen-hating.) So I didn't use the liquid that came with the douche -- just dumped it out. I liked the Summer's Eve brand bottle much better than other brands. You can obviously wash them well and reuse, btw. My doctor recommended that I begin gently douching about a week after the surgery. Don't do anything without asking the doctor!

The hospital has the most wonderful cold packs. I don't think they sell them in stores. They are so effective and comfortable and help with swelling. If you like them, be sure to ask for a new one every time the current one becomes room temperature. And when you leave, ask them to give you a supply to take home. You can try making an ice pack at home, but these were hard to use and either too cold or too melty.

After the surgery (and after the doctor says you may), you want to move around -- this helps your body get rid of the medications you were given. You'll be spending much of the first week lying on your sofa. But try to get up every hour or two to walk around the house. Go to the grocery store -- as long as someone else is there to do the lifting. You shouldn't lift anything more than a couple of pounds for at least a month.

You probably won't drive for a week after surgery. They say that recovery is 12 weeks -- and it really was that long before I could sit comfortably. But it's not so bad -- you just hitch over on one "cheek" or the other in order to sit. (This made driving uncomfortable -- I was kind of surprised that the doctor said I could do it after a week. I could drive -- and I did. But the sitting part was tricky in the car!) At home, you simply lie down to be comfortable.

Take a warm bath every evening. This is relaxing and helps with healing.

Drugs like Percocet are potentially addictive, so use it conservatively. After the first couple of days, I found I needed it only at night. It can give you a headache -- so if you wake up with one, take the Percocet with an aspirin or Motrin the next time. After a week or two, switch to just Motrin. (Or alternate with Aleve and Tylenol to find the one that is best for you.)

I'm not sure what medications I was given during the surgery. I don't like meds. I never had any during childbirth. But those surgery meds gave me an unexpected gift. Right after the surgery (when I was out of recovery), I was very peaceful (and relieved, of course). And I had these lovely daydreams. I had a "vision" in which, one by one, my five newborns were brought to my bed. (The youngest is now five years old, so it's been a while since I've given birth.) None of my children were multiples -- and it never occurred to me to think of them all together as newborns, if you know what I mean. But imaging the five newsborns in the bed with me was like a blessing. And I could see each one very clearly, in my mind's eye. The little girl with her thick cap of black hair. The little boys -- some of them so alert, as they were at birth. Some sleepy, as they were. One of them quite small. One of them big and fat. And I knew that a rectocele (and the surgery to fix it) was a small price to pay for those babies. So be open to your own healing vision!

louiseds

October 19, 2008 - 8:11pm

Hi Tinkerbell

Glad you are feeling good. Interesting, info-filled post, and thanks for being candid. How long ago was your surgery, and what procedures were done?

Cheers

Louise

BaNa48

October 20, 2008 - 7:45am

Hi Tinkerbell, After 5 years I feel very much like you! Disgusted and sad with my body! I hope you're feeling well now! Exactly what date was your surgery? How do you find a doctor that has done 100 surgeries!? I am 65 hate the thought of a surgery, but can no longer do too much and it makes me sad! I've had 4 infections since July! Don't know if it's bike riding,(which I've been doing a lot of lately)! For some reason I have to take a stool softner every night now! And fiber pills! I inherited this from Mom! Bless her heart! Last time I had an exam and talked with surgeon, he said he wanted to do a hysterectomy even if I didn't need one! Well I almost told him to go to H---! I haven't considered surgery since and that was 3 years ago! Now it's worse, but still don't know if I need the hysterectomy! Maybe just repairs and bladder lift! I'm very ignorant when it comes to my own health! Any thoughts would be appreciated! Nancy

Tinkerbell5

October 20, 2008 - 10:36am

My surgery was almost a year ago. It was four months before I felt normal. Since then, it's pretty great. I used to think I could Kegel pretty well -- but after the surgery I can *really* Kegel. I didn't know that so much of my muscle wall had given way.

My surgeon is about 40 years old -- so it didn't take him that long to do 100 rectocele surgeries. I think if a surgeon is good at something, he or she becomes known for that and gets lots of patients needing that surgery. This doctor's practice is more GYN than OB. Many practices are the other way around. And though I was grateful for his surgical skill, I wouldn't have gone to him in a pregancy in a million years! I absolutely loved my midwives.

Sometimes a group of midwives can point you to a doctor who interacts well with women -- a doctor who won't urge you to have a hysterectomy if you don't need it. So maybe get on the phone and call around. You don't need to be a patient at a midwife's practice in order to call and tell her receptionist that you are looking for a good surgeon. (However, an appointment with a midwife might be the best place to start -- she certainly won't tell you that you need surgery if you don't.) There are also lots of "rate your doctor" type websites that might help you find someone. You could also just go through the phone book and call the GYN practices and ask over the phone about the number of repair surgeries the docs have done. If you get a receptionist who is curt and unhelpful, you didn't want to go to that particular practice, anyway!

Good luck finding the answer that's right for you.

Meg

Tinkerbell5

October 20, 2008 - 10:47am

It's been almost a year now.

I had a very severe rectocele -- basically the entire posterior wall of the vagina had separated. For many years, the only symtpom was having to "digitate" to have a bowel movement (putting your fingers over the vagina to keep the rectocele from bulging out while on the toilet). The bulging got worse -- so that it was bulging even without a bowel movement. I could have put up with that without surgery. It was a little unpleasant, but no big deal. But the worse symptom for me was the sensation that I had to have a bowel movement -- most of the day. Even though I didn't have to have a bowel movement! It was like Chinese water torture. It was actually hard to tell the difference between the false sensation and a real one, when it came.

So my repair was suturing the wall back in place from one end to the other. The doctor thought it looked like a birth injury -- probably made worse over the course of five births. Things are back to normal now -- in fact, it feels as though I never had any children. And having the support (rather than the extreme lack of support which I had) will help prevent further pelvic problems. My uterus would have been more likely to weaken if I hadn't had it done. So it was right for me. But if it had been a less severe rectocele, I would not have had the surgery. Without the posterior muscle in place, Kegels could only do so much for me.

Meg

Christine

October 20, 2008 - 12:57pm

Hi Tinkerbell,

I know we've pondered amongst ourselves why post-surgery women feel the need to contribute to a site where women are trying (and many with great success) to avoid surgery, but I would like to ask you directly, Can you think about it for a moment and then try to tell us why you have posted at Whole Woman?

Thank you,

Christine

Tinkerbell5

October 20, 2008 - 3:39pm

Hi Christine,

I certainly meant no offence. I avoided surgery myself for a whole decade. This was one of the sites I lurked on, especially last year. I had read posts here from time to time from other women who had chosen surgery. I found them helpful. Just as I found posts helpful that came from women who had success dealing with their pelvic difficulties without surgery.

I didn't perceive this as a site where only one point of view was valued. I would have said we were all coming from generally the same place -- women who value a natural approach whenever possible. But each woman has a unique situation, and for some, surgery is a last resort that we reach. I was one of those and was trying to share useful information about my experience with other women who might find themselves making that choice of last resort.

I titled my post "If you decide to have surgery" -- so that women who didn't want to read about my experience could just skip over it.

I think I am no less a Whole Woman for having had surgery.

alemama

October 20, 2008 - 4:12pm

I am curious Tink, how old are you? How old is your littlest of 5? Do you plan to have more kiddos in the future? How is sex? Do you know what procedure you had? Do you take any meds - like stool softeners etc? I am sure you needed to be on them after the procedure- did you wean off? Did you only have a rectocele (not a cystocele etc.) for 10 years? Are you able to be physically active (running for example?) ? How about lifting- Are you able to lift loads like groceries? A screaming kicking toddler perhaps?

I am glad you are having a good outcome from the surgery. I don't think this website is closed minded- I wish you would have posted last year instead of lurking- that way we could have followed your story over the year leading up to your surgery. Is is strange to imagine reading for a year here and then going on to have surgery- did you practice the posture over that year? Did you change your life style at all? Did you try the yoga breathing called Nauli? Did you consider going to the Wholewoman center to see Christine? Did you read the book she wrote?

I hope you won't find these questions too prodding or personal- we tend to get that way here- I am sure you already know that-having read the forum for a year.

BaNa48

October 20, 2008 - 7:20pm

Tinkerbell
I wonder if it's possible to talk to you privately (not on the forum)? I have been a member here for a long time, and I feel Christine is a friend! I don't want to offend either! I have the same problems as you did! Would it be possible to exchange e=mails?
Nancy

Mae

October 20, 2008 - 8:26pm

Hi Nancy,

When my gyno suggested an operation for my bladder prolapse (4 years ago, BTW, I'm 61) she said a hysterectomy would have to be done because with the bladder out of the way my uterus would just prolapse. Is that perhaps why your doctor would want to do a hysterectomy as well as a bladder repair? Just a thought!

I have learned that I have been very lucky..knock wood! My prolapse is pretty bad (stage 3 and right out there on a bad day) but it is just uncomfortable. Luckily, I don't have pain or bladder infections. That said, I'll probably have one tomorrow!

I hope you find the answer you are looking for. I'm wishing us all well! This is not easy..no matter which approach we take!

Warm regards,

~Mae

louiseds

October 20, 2008 - 9:04pm

Hi Meg

I can't speak for anyone else, but I doubt that you have caused offence. I hope you keep posting and we can continue the discussion. I'll be interested to hear your answers to Alemama's questions.

Louise

Tinkerbell5

October 21, 2008 - 12:51pm

I haven't been on this site for a year. I lurked here a year ago, as I was making the decision about my surgery. Among many other resouces (including my midwives), I surfed the Internet looking for information. Googling into a site through a specific link may have given me a false impression, since I may only have read select threads.

I do think I misunderstood the purpose of this site. I thought it was a discussion forum like one you might find to support natural childbirth. The women on such a site are encouraging each other in this choice, but for some, a surgical outcome is the best choice in the end. They would not be questioned about their motivation if they told the birth story of their c-section on the forum, despite the fact that they had not achieved the natural goal -- the purpose for which the forum was established. Some might even benefit from hearing about their surgical experience. Of course, the women are all still hoping that they will be able to avoid surgery themselves! I don't think that a website like that exists for women with pelvic issues.

It's sad that women who have c-secs sometimes feel as though they've failed. The fact is, women's bodies have mechanical failures, from time to time. When you truly have one, what you need is a mechanic, in other words, a surgeon. I feel grateful to live in a century in which it's possible to have a safe c-section (though I never needed one), or repair of a severe rectocele -- just as I would be grateful to receive an appendectomy, if I had that mechanical failure.

Ironically, my commitment to natural childbirth may have had something to do with my rectocele. I've read that women who have received episiotomies are less likely to develop rectoceles or cystoceles. That may or may not be true. But I never had an episiotomy. And I can't help put suspect that six hours of pushing out a ten pound baby (posterior -- and never turned) had something to do with the separation of my posterior vaginal wall. I didn't develop a rectocele until after my first two children were born. Now that I think of it, I didn't have that rectocele for 10 years. I had it for 16. After the birth of three more children, it became more than a nuisance. I wouldn't have surgery for a nuisance that could be controlled with lifestyle choices and exercises. I think that the arrival of peri-menopause and the worsening of my condition were connected. I wouldn't consider surgery if I thought we'd be having more children. So the timing was actually a good thing, in a weird way.

I took Colace (stool softener) for about 10 days after the surgery. Making healthy food choices (and I believe the right diet for one person is not the same as for another person), I never suffered with constipation before the surgery and it was no problem afterwards. The Colace was mostly a precaution -- and maybe a crutch. With my perineal discomfort in the weeks after the surgery, the idea of a bowel movement made me nervous at first. I thought I was going to injury myself with all those sutures in there! But I didn't. And the bowel movements weren't all that painful.

My anatomy now is a lot like it was before I had children. No bulge, thank goodness, and all the other symptoms are gone. I'm fully functional in ways both marital and toiletal! I have a mild cystocele, the doctor remarked -- but just what you would expect of a woman of my age and childbearing history. I'm not aware of it and have no symptoms. My activities are not limited in any way now, a year after surgery. I refrained from lifting heavy objects for many months after the surgery. This was probably an excess of caution. But it felt right at the time. And since my youngest was four at the time, he was old enough to climb into his own carseat, etc.

Surgery, of course, may repair a mechanical failure. But it doesn't replace the lifelong need to maintain a healthy female self, spiritually and physically. A positive attitude is a big part of that. I didn't come here to interject a negative strain. I was trying to demonstrate that the sun can shine brightly even on an outcome that you dreaded and worked to avoid.

So with good wishes for this forum, I'll take my leave and keep looking for a website for someone like me.

Meg

Christine

October 21, 2008 - 2:17pm

Hi Meg,

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. Our position is not at all about being critical or negative, but about being real. If it comes across as negative, consider that from our side – only because there are many of us now who’ve studied this issue for some years – it seems that you have only told half the story.

First of all, your anatomical concepts do not coincide with what we understand to be accurate. What do you mean “the entire posterior wall of the vagina had separated”? Separated from what? The symptoms you describe are the very same symptoms many women with rectocele experience – they don’t sound out of the ordinary at all. Rectocele is not about the vagina, but rather a pressure-induced, unnatural ballooning of the rectum.

Your comment that “It feels as though I never had any children” raises a few hackles, not only because it’s rather an odd remark coming from a woman who experienced several lovely home births, but also because this is a common “selling point” of vaginal surgery.

You are absolutely right that your back wall has been sutured “in place from one end to the other.” However, a great amount of medical literature confirms that such “support…will help prevent further pelvic problems” is simply NOT the case. The vagina must remain mobile to sustain support.

The reality is you are much (the urogynecology literature states 500%) more likely to experience further prolapse symptoms, the most common being another rectocele – this time a very difficult bulging at the perineum; and a significant cyctocele due to the front wall having lost the support of its bulging back wall. Kegels will do nothing but aggravate the situation, and second, third and fourth surgeries simply increase the damage.

I am truly happy, Meg, that thus far you seem to have escaped the symptoms that plague so many others after rectocele repair. I guess we’d be much more receptive to stories like yours if we had a sense that you really understood what has been done to your body and what may be in store for you in the future. A more balanced story also helps others who are struggling (like Nancy) to stop and think before being lured by the siren song of the surgical “cure”.

Yes, it’s all about choice, but how can women make an informed choice when they aren’t given all the facts?

Wishing you well,

Christine

louiseds

October 21, 2008 - 8:59pm

Hi Tinkerbell

I hope you haven't left for good. I really am interested to hear your answers to Alemama's questions, particularly whether you tried WW posture to see if it helped your rectocele, before having surgery.

Also, have you been using WW posture since your surgery?

Also, do you understand the principles behind it, ie moving the pelvic organs forward over the pubic bone and extending the body into 'stability'?

I firmly believe in Christine's work, and I can relate well to your need for a mechanic. It is still not known whether or not WW posture can be used effectively by women who have had surgical repairs, which is why I hope you visit again, particularly after a 2 or 3 years and tell us how you are going. We are all learning, and to cut off dialog between Wholewoman and you, who has had surgery that appears to be working, would be pointless. You are more than welcome to keep posting.

Moving the rectum forward could be seen as counter-intuitive. You would think that the rectum would then be positioned above the vagina, but I think what it does is kind of lengthens the vagina and closes the gap in the fascia behind the posterior vaginal wall (which you have now had sutured).

I find it hard to believe that you would dismiss Christine's work, as it is based on the body's natural structural stability. You have so much in common with this community. Let's build on that.

Email me privately if you would like to.

Cheers

Louise

Mae

October 22, 2008 - 8:36am

Hi Meg,

I totally agree with Louise. We can ALL learn so much from each other. I hope you will take her advice and continue to post. Keep that positive attitude!

Thank you for sharing. Wishing you all the best!

~Mae

alemama

October 22, 2008 - 1:19pm

TInk wrote" I do think I misunderstood the purpose of this site. I thought it was a discussion forum like one you might find to support natural childbirth. The women on such a site are encouraging each other in this choice, but for some, a surgical outcome is the best choice in the end. They would not be questioned about their motivation if they told the birth story of their c-section on the forum, despite the fact that they had not achieved the natural goal -- the purpose for which the forum was established. Some might even benefit from hearing about their surgical experience. Of course, the women are all still hoping that they will be able to avoid surgery themselves! I don't think that a website like that exists for women with pelvic issues."

I read a website that exists to support natural childbirth and I have to respectfully disagree. When a woman posts a surgical outcome for her birth, there are many questions about her circumstances. And often the discussion turns to what the group feels truly requires a surgical birth- some even of the opinion that death of the mother and baby would be better than surgical birth. Surgical birth is only truly necessary about 3% of the time and yet our national average is somewhere in the mid 30%s.

The sad fact is many doctors do not know how to handle natural birth(and many women are so out of touch they don't know how to ask for one or even why) and with interventions such as epidurals- woman cannot get into optimal birthing positions- and so the baby has trouble getting into position and so a surgical birth is ordered.

The more I learn the more I realize how important it is to leave well enough alone. The human body is amazing. I do not believe that we were created flawed or that there is a way in with out a way out. Sure wombs prolapse- but amazingly we have natures pessary to keep it in- and honestly there are so many ways to manage this condition it is crazy that there is even surgery to fix it-
Surgery is brutal- but often necessary to remove pathologies and life threatening injuries etc... but to me it seems strange to alter the form of the vagina because of discomfort.

Thank you for answering some of my questions. I understand that you had a 5 year old at the time and 5 older kids and that you were peri-menopausal. I sure hope you stick around and adopt some of the lifestyle changes suggested here.

Please let us know how you are doing.

Mae

October 22, 2008 - 8:15pm

That is pretty scary stuff Alemama! DEATH to the mother and her unborn child before Everything has been tried-even a surgical procedure as a last resort, is outrageous! That sounds way over the edge to me! I, (and I believe most mothers, or mothers-to-be) would want Every measure taken to assure the life of myself and most assuredly, my unborn child!! I would certainly question a website that thought otherwise!

Regards,
~Mae

Christine

October 22, 2008 - 10:41pm

I wouldn’t take it too literally, Mae. To me it seems sort of like a “Give me liberty or give me death!” stance.

One of my favorite philosophers, George Ohsawa – the man who brought Macrobiotics to the West – believed all disease is self-curable. He would say that if you’ve tried and tried and all else fails, then “Just die!”

I think a huge chunk of the craziness of Western civilization has to do with existential despair, or more plainly, fear of death. Life is so incredibly short, yet we go about our days pushing away any mere thought of dying. This conflict causes great internal turmoil, which then manifests as a disconnect between “eternal” mind and “mechanical” body.

Sorry to be negative, but I think Tinkerbelle was unreal. I mean, she may have been a real person who had real surgery a year ago, but she also had an agenda that was clearly not pro-wholewoman. I can only hope she learned something.

alemama

October 23, 2008 - 7:53am

Christine you hit the nail on the head.

We make this big fuss about death and it is just silly. When we talk about death in our family we approach it as a necessary part of life- to live means to die. My kids understand this and do not fear death. It is such a fun conversation to hear what they think happens after death.
Sometimes if I tell them we will do something tomorrow- they will tell me we may be dead tomorrow and that we need to do it now- funny people.
Much of our medicine today is to cure illness caused by lifestyle- a lifestyle that SHOULD kill a person- instead we medicate so that people can continue to live in a way that makes them sick. I think this is a piss poor use of our intelligence.
We "save" babies who go on to live a life of pain for months or maybe years just because the parents do not want to face death- I know it is a double edged sword and that some babies who should have died in fact are saved and go on to live beautiful full lives-
This idea of perfection needs to be let go. We are so much more than our bodies. I mean it when I say I cannot believe surgery exits to correct prolapse.
I guess I am a radical. I think medicine should treat the entire person. I know most people don't feel this way. I wish more did.

Mae

October 23, 2008 - 3:23pm

Hi Christine,

I hope you are right about that just being that Website's stance. Unfortunately, although the internet is an incredible source of information, it has made it very easy for people pushing the wrong agenda and there are always way too many vulnerable people willing to drink the Kool-Aid!

On to today's worry...my dd who is almost 3 months pregnant, has been exposed to Fifth Disease in her Kindergarten class. The principal divided her class amongst the other teachers today and sent her to the doctor for a blood test. The test, which won't come back for a few days, will tell her if she has, or ever has had, Fifth Disease, which is often easy to go undetected. If she's had it before and doesn't have it now, we have no problem. However, if she doesn't have it (God willing) and has never had it, she won't be able to go back to school. There have been several cases of it reported there. Apparently it doesn't cause birth defects, but it can bring on miscarriage and can cause anemia in the fetus.

I suspect she's never had it. I got Fifth Disease when I was an adult teaching Kindergarten. She was in college at the time. I think if she had had it as a child I would have gotten it from her back then, not later as I did.

Familiar with any of this Christine? Anyone on the Forum ever had this while pregnant, or know anyone who did? I know we have several teachers on the Forum. Maybe they've had some experience with this??? I had my own experience, but I wasn't pregnant at the time!

Thanks,

~Mae

granolamom

October 23, 2008 - 10:28pm

when I was pg with my first I was working in a childrens hospital and was exposed to fifth. my ob at the time barely raised an eyebrow. he said it was almost certain that I'd been exposed before, and that I wouldn't necessarily even have known about it. he didn't test me either. everything turned out ok for us, and I hope it will all be ok for your dd and grandbaby as well.
so much can go wrong, and statistically speaking, it rarely does. its so easy to get overwhelmed by it all, I try to take the 'what's meant to be will be' approach. and I pray. alot.

as far as people on the internet posting 'give me natural childbirth or give me death' type of posts, well, you can't believe everything you read online. I've been doing the forum thing for 15 years now, and there's always people who feel the need to be uber-whatever. the mom who claims she never **ever** lets her baby cry or the woman who claims that she's still bf her 6 yo. maybe its the whole truth, but I think its embellished for their web persona. just my cynical $.02
because in the moment, I think its a rare mother who will be able to overcome her human desire to live rather than accept a surgical birth.

and alemama, how scary is this...when pg with my third, the hospital I visited had a 45% c-section rate. 45!!!!!!!!!
this at the time that NYC saw a number of its free standing birthing centers close. we're oh so progressive here in NY @@

pspctutor

October 23, 2008 - 11:05pm

Hi All, I was diagnosed about 2 years ago with rectocele, uterine prolaspe and histocele, I have been doing kegels and watching my diet but my symptoms have become so extreme that I can no longer stall off the repairs, trouble sitting, constant discomfort, uterine infections, plus cervix and rectocele are outside-big problem...plus I have the constant bladder problem too.., I was severely damaged by a VBAC birth, 10 lb son who was posterior, turned in utero and delivered with forceps... I orignally was trying to have a natural birth with mid-wife but everything went wrong, I am a very natural lifestyle person and was very disappointed to say the least, but that is all water under the brige now I just need to get repaired so I can function again. I am post menopausal as well and go to an alternative MD who has been helping me try and avoid surgery but there was just too much damage. I am also single/divorced and self employed so this is going to be very very difficult..but my symptoms have gotten so bad I can barely work...I am trying to get myself into the best shape possible before going into surgery, kegels, vitamins, exercise etc and any words of pre/post-surgery advice or hopeful stories of successful recoveries would be very welcome.
Thanks, Pamela

rosewood

October 24, 2008 - 12:47am

My heart goes out to you for all of your pain, discomfort, and extreme symptoms. It sounds like agony.

Although I do not know what it's been like for you with these symptoms (mine have been mild by comparison, although at one time there was protrusion from the vagina), I recommend that prior to your surgery, you read Christine's book, Saving the Whole Woman, 2nd edition, because this, at least, will arm you with information. I can only imagine how you must long to have this fixed! Early on, I remember just wanting it to go away -- to do anything to have it go away. But, for many women, surgery, the promised fix, can lead to worse problems. It's worth considering this.

And a philosopical question posed to the WW community -- at what point does a woman's condition get so bad, that the risks involved with surgery are outweighed by the potential relief, even if short-term? I'm not saying I know the answer, but, it seems like every woman's situation is different to some degree. I remember the terror I felt early on at a relatively manageable condition. What about more extreme cases?

Pamela, sending you thoughts of hope and healing.

Marie

alemama

October 24, 2008 - 8:55am

I don't know all the details but I will tell you what I do know of my Grandmother's situation. She was bleeding constantly from her vagina (in her 80's) and requiring transfusions. She was weak and in great pain- so she had a hysterectomy. Solved the bleeding and pain problems and now 10 years later (now in her 90's) has not had anymore bleeding problems-
I think this is where my line is drawn. I am willing to live my life in a wheelchair if necessary- but if it becomes life threatening I am going to get it taken care of-
like the situation with a fistula- I would have to get that sewn up- no way around it that I know of. I sincerely hope that I don't tear that way but it is a possibility I have to consider.
Then there is a complete vaginal vault prolapse- which I think is virtually unheard of in women who have not had pop surgery- but I think if I were to turn inside out I would consider surgery-
I have faith that using the techniques here it will never come to that.

Mae

October 24, 2008 - 10:06am

Thanks G-mom,

We'll just have to wait and see how the test turns out and go from there. Glad it worked out for you. I'm thinking there are just way too many things to be checked and tested these days. I never even thought about things like this when I was pregnant with my two. Sometimes I think it's TMI and I wonder if it is such a good thing. Now, of course, my dd will stress until the test comes back and she may or may not have more stress when it does! I just went ignorantly through my wonderful pregnancies, happy and stress free. Doesn't happen that way anymore, which I guess is a good thing, but it sure has it's down side.

BTW, she's enjoying the Mothering magazine you recommended. I'm not sure if I told you but I did manage to get her the annual Pregnancy issue.

I am glad you agree about that natural childbirth or death stance. How absurd! I think Christine's right..it's a "give me liberty.." thing. I can't imagine any mother really doing that. You are right..you can't believe everything that you read online. Unfortunately though, some people do!

Thanks again for your input. I value your $.02!!!

~Mae

BaNa48

October 29, 2008 - 7:21pm

I went to another gyno today! He said my bladder is the bulge and with a tool he tested to see if the uterus was intact! It isn't, it's slipping down! My bowel is sagging and he said it should be stitched up to the sacrum?? He doesn't do that surgery so he referred my to another that I see in a month! With 4 infections in the last 6 months, what's a woman to do? I'm just sick and miserable!! Also he said I would never be able to lift more than 5#! I can't empty my bladder or bowel!

Christine

October 29, 2008 - 8:15pm

Dear Nancy,

I totally trust your judgment. You’ve battled your symptoms for several years now and I’m confident you will make an informed decision.

Just as a reality check, the uterus is connected to the bladder at the level of the cervix and therefore they often prolapse together. Using a “tool to test that the uterus is intact” makes no sense to me. Rectopexy – suspending the rectum to the spine – is very deep surgery and not without significant risks – like a form of intractable constipation that can only be responded to by manually evacuating the bowel.

I hope and pray that the surgery gives you a higher level of functioning for the long term.

Heartfully,

Christine

BaNa48

October 30, 2008 - 12:53pm

Christine, This is why I'm in such torment! I'm afraid of a bag to poop in?!
What would be an alternative? Just ignore my problems? Maybe I should just have the hysterectomy and bladder lifted and not do anything to the bowel? What could be the worst that would happen? Anymore info greatly appreciated! Nancy

PA runner

October 30, 2008 - 12:58pm

I just wanted to let you know that you are supported in your pursuit of finding relief of your symptoms. I view surgery as the "open only in case of emergency box" that is buried in the back of a closet. Each of us has a different point at which she would open that box and them try to decide if they would use what is inside (surgery) or if they would close it back up for review at a later date.

For those of us with rectoceles we know that coping with the urge to have a bowel movement or the constant pressure can be unbearable. Fortunately for me it has become very rare for me to be in that position but it is not something that I think I could manage on a daily basis if I never got relief. I think if I had to live with the constant urge/pressure it would become an emergency as my mental health would begin to suffer.

Now that being said if my rectocele did worsen or in my mind I think of it de-stabilizing I would budget in going to Christine's center and pay her to see if I was truly in WW posture and if there was anything else imaginable that I could do before having surgery. I view this as a consult along the lines of what I would do with any other medical condition which would be to consult with an expect in the field and with prolapse that would be Christine.

Oh, and on a side note I really believe that we need threads like this originated by the woman who had surgery. It is just another aspect of the goal we all have for woman to get the best health care possible and to do this we must know what questions to ask.

granolamom

October 30, 2008 - 1:53pm

well said, PA runner
all of it

Christine

October 30, 2008 - 2:07pm

No, Nancy, I certainly don't expect you to do nothing...these are progressive conditions that need our fullest capacity to respond. I've written my heart out about why the surgical response is not best, but at some point you may need to join the ranks of surgically-managed women rather than have your body constantly subject to weakening infections and lower bowel disease.

I want to try to help you, but we've had these discussions so many times in the past that I don't know where to begin as far as suggestions. In order to get my bearings it's probably best to ask, what are you doing on a daily basis to try to stabilize your symptoms?

Heartfully,

Chrsitine