I really need some advice

Hi Nica

You are so distressed right now, probably caught up in a whirlpool of worry that won't stop.

Pelvic surgery and pain seem to go together for two reasons.

Firstly surgeons seem to equate removing something with removing the problem, and it often doesn't work that way. The pain sometimes remains because it wasn't diagnosed properly. Pain is also sometimes not experienced at its source, so it is often difficult to diagnose. Then you are left with the scars of pelvic surgery which will set you up for prolapse later.

Secondly, surgical intervention and scarring will leave you with pain, particularly in the months following the surgery, but maybe for the longer term, especially if they have to investigate further than the degree they were expecting. They are not going to live with the scars.

They can probably see the amount of pain you are in and they just want to solve it for you surgically, even at the risk of making it worse. They are probably doing it from benevolent motives, but ...

In your situation I would be seeking further diagnosis, and ensure that they examine you standing, as well as lying on your back. It could be something as simple as a varicose vein, but might be something else. I am not a doctor. You need a competent doctor to diagnose this.

If you are happy to tell us what general geographic area you live in, other members may be able to recommend kind and competent practitioners near to you that they trust.

You can back out of surgery any time before signing consent for surgery. Read everything you sign very carefully, and get a copy of it as well for your records. If you have signed anything not easily reversible I would investigate withdrawing your consent as you seem to be in no fit state for making a balanced judgement about allowing surgical intervention for your body right now. There is quite a lot of time between now and January, so don't panic.

Just take a deep breath, let it out again and realise that you are not doomed to surgery you are scared of. You don't have to do this, or be chased into it by pain and fear. We can help you work out a good course of action.

Are you breastfeeding your baby, ie are pain relief medications going to go through to your milk? Pain relief that is safe for your baby may take the edge off the pain and so relieve your anxiety in the short term.

Did you have an episiotomy or other interventions during the birth of your baby, ie could there be a suture still in there, maybe dragging beneath the surface of your vaginal wall, that nobody has found yet?

Have you had a good look in your vagina with a mirror, maybe with the help of your partner or other trusted person? Any extra tissue up there?

Get to know your anatomy well, and think about what it was during that week painfree. Where it fit into your menstrual cycle? What you did or did not do during that week? What made the pain return? Was the return of pain sudden or gradual? Have you had a full cycle since then? etc.

If there is some prolapse there I am sure we can help you to relieve your symptoms to the extent that you can make a rational decision about what to do in the longer term.

Thinking of you. Looking forward to hearing some answers to these questions, then we can all put our thinking caps on.

Louise

You have been through alot. I had my son 8 months ago too and i have been through a tough recovery as well and still recovering. Did you tear during the birthing process? I had 3rd degree tears and actually had my tears recut and restitched 3 months ago because i was still having pain. But before that i did alot of online searches about vaginal pain after giving birth and there were many women who told me that they had perineal pain, vaginal pain and deeper vaginal pain for even up to a year or more before it started feeling better. I still have tenderness on my perineum now and in my vagina but i'm hoping it will get better in time. Does yours hurt on the left side even when you're doing your daily activities? I have the pressure and heaviness inside my vagina too and recently my OB said i have a minor cystocele and rectocele prolapse. She said it is very common to see women have some sagging of the vaginal after giving birth.
Have you seen a urogynecologist? They specialize in prolapse so they would know more than the regular OBgyn. Maybe you should seek a second opinion from one before you go through with the surgery since you are also feeling unsure about it.
I know how stressed you feel because i have had lots of issues surrounding my vagina since the birth of my son. I am coping better now and trying to not worry about things down there anymore and just focus on my family. I try not to let myself get sucked into feeling depressed and worried anymore about my vaginal issues. But it has been a long difficult road to get here. I am still trying to not to allow myself to relapse and just think that things will get better.
Where exactly does the pain feel like it's coming from? if you insert your finger inside your vagina can you feel the source of the pain? or does it feel deeper inside? is the stinging, buring sensation constant or comes and goes or only if you move certain ways?
I had alot of pain on the inside edge of my vagina that was hurting me most. That is why my OB restitched me. It has helped that part but my perineum is still tender and bumpy and some pain inside as well but i think better than before.
I'm wondering if this pain will get better in time or if maybe trigger shots may help from what i read other women mentioned about when they had vaginal pain and it helped.

I don't have much time here- so I will be to the point.
You have vaginal pain.
As far as you have been told and you can tell you don't have prolapse.
You are very very newly postpartum.
You have been scheduled for a surgery to treat prolapse (one with a pretty sorry success rate and side effects that you would not believe)

This sounds like negligence on the part of your health care professionals. It would be like going in for a pulled muscle in your arm and them offering to put in a metal plate. No responsible doctor would even consider a repair this early in your recovery.

I have a few guesses about the pain. You can't feel a tear, you don't have a bulge, you have relief around the time of your period (which is irregular - and that is totally normal by the way) and another time during the month (I am guessing ovulation). Perhaps it is a lubrication issue. I suggest a high quality vaginal lubricant (you can order an organic one here). It could be a pinched nerve. It could be a strained ligament. It could be a pulled muscle (there are tons of them in there).

Basically we know what it isn't and that is so wonderful for you (plus since you are here you can learn how to prevent prolapse- lucky you)-
Try RICE- rest, ice, elevation, and compression and see if any of that works for you. Spend the money on acupuncture, chiropractic, and massage. Eat healing foods. Work with your entire body to heal this injury- as your ligaments and tendons get more secure you will feel relief.
Let your body heal- I guarantee in 6 months you will forget that you ever had vaginal pain. That will not be the case if you have surgery.

Hi Nica

It sounds as if you are really being given the brushoff and seriously pressured into either accepting surgery or buzzing off. This doesn't sound right. In fact it sounds downright cruel and sadistic.

Is there anyone out there from the UK who can clarify this for Nica????

Nica, I can imagine a private health system wanting to lock in its bookings with a binding contract to ensure that pre-op costs incurred by them would be covered if the patient didn't show on admission day. But I find it hard to believe that the NHS would be refusing to cancel your consent, as they would have others willing to fill your place at the drop of a hat.

Also, I seem to remember somebody saying that NHS wouldn't even think about operating until 12months postpartum. It is still much less than that. Maybe I got that wrong. Your body still has quite a bit of natural recovery to do, even if things are not quite right in the vagina department. Your body might need more than 12 months postpartum to be back to pre-pregnant state.

Do you have a copy of the consent form? If not, I suggest that you ring them and ask for a copy, then get in touch with the NHS and ask them where you stand. Postponing the operation will initially take the pressure off you, which you are obviously feeling acutely. I cannot see them refusing you that. Once you have properly read the form that you have signed you can ask them about the possibility of cancelling. Perhaps don't cancel immediately, as you feel that it gives you a safety net which is pretty important to you at the moment, but at least you will know where you stand with them. Also, getting a hold of the copy will allow you to know *exactly* what procedure/s you have consented to so you can research it yourself more thoroughly.

Just read your initial post again. Doctor says 'tilted uterus'. That may mean retroverted which means that instead of the cervix pointing downwards from the top of your vagina and the uterus resting forwards on your bladder your uterus is tipped backwards, resting on the back wall of the vagina and your cervix may be coming out of the back wall of the vagina and pointing towards the front of the vagina. Your cervix and may even be pointing upwards. This was what mine was like before it came down lower and flipped forwards again. That would explain the dead end you felt, cos that's what the top of my vaginal vault felt like. The cervix was kind of hiding behind the folds in the back vaginal wall which was all crinkled up and squashed downwards if you kwim, so I couldn't feel the cervix.

I am wondering if the pain is something to do with the way your uterus is stretching your vaginal tissues out of shape? Maybe your uterus rises up slightly when you have a period, so your vagina is stretched out of shape less?

I really think you would get some benefit from adjusting your posture, clothing, and how you sit, so you can get your organs sitting further forward on your pubic bone. If you can get your uterus to tilt forwards again your lower vagina may assume a more normal angle (tilted back more) and shape. Some yoga postures that putt your butt up in the air and suspend the pelvic organs rather than pressing them downwards may help you to reposition them. You could also try spending more time on hands and knees and let your belly hang freely which will have a similar suspending effect on your bladder and uterus. Visit the FAQ's on the main website to find out more about the posture and other lifestyle things you can do to get your organs positioned better. Posture really is the key to so much, prolapse-wise. It is a very proud female posture. No tummy tucking and tucking in your butt. Leave your belly uncompressed by tight trousers and skirts. Your body needs that belly room for somewhere to store your uterus. Wear your breasts proudly out front and keep your chin in slightly. Relax and open your shoulders. All this stress is probably hunching you up and closing your chest which will work against against you. Gotta get you relaxing some more.

Progress may be slow with the posture if you normally slouch. Just take it slowly, bit by bit till you get the hang of it.

Keep us in touch with your progress.

Cheers

Louise

Firstly I will say the NHS does not usually tend to do anything for POP - As it is not life threatening but as you seem to be being pressured into this I will start by saying - No matter WHAT you signed - You do NOT have to do anything - If you are having any doubts at all - DON@T continue!

Firstly I would say to defer the surgery until you have had time to get into Posture and then work from there - I have a 3rd Degree POP and I am living well (I was about to post at one year from finding it as a 3rd degree but your post is far too important to ignore)

My discomfort is also on the left side (Thats where it started) I believe this is the weird feelings our bodies give out dur to mis alignment of things...

That was at first - Now - Almost a year on - I am fine and I no longer feel left sided weirdness.

This could very well e just a nerve - No need for mesh - Or any surgery - Nerves take a long time to sort themselves out - No surgery will fix this and no mesh will help...

The pressure you feel will I am sure be lessened if not gone totally by Posture. Once you have got into posture a few months after that you should feel a lessening of the pressure and that life is returning - They should always leave you at least 12 months if not more before offering surgeries as your body is healing (Sorry if repeating have not read other posts on this thread)

You need to give your body time - Time is not something that can be rushd and time is what will heal you - No mesh will heal you my friend - What you have - Mesh will not aid and could very well cause more problems in the long run.

Personally - If it were me I would cancel the surgery - You could always get re-referred if you chose to - And you NEED time to let your body sort itself out - Mesh cannot be removed - It can only be cut out - I have a hernia surgery mesh and although that was emergency type stuff that does well wish mesh the internal orgas of a women NEED to be able to move and slide with each other - meh will stop this and could cause a hell of alot moe nerve damage than you already have. To read other sites where women have had these sorts of surgeries - Will open your eyes to the pitfalls of the 'fix' to fix the fix of the fix - And once you have opened that door (I am sure Louise will send you al ink to her doors post she made - wonderful post) Please do not let them pressure you into anything - I am in the UK and I know they seem to think they are gods gift - They arent - Always remember - Doctors PRACTICE and they never ever know all!

If you feel you are being pressurized contact your PCT and talk to them - The fact you FEEL pressurized is bad in itself! Usually you do not sign the consent till just before the operation. Thats what has happened to me with my hernia thing...

Always note - You CAN cancel even at one millisecond before they try to put you undre - THIS IS YOUR RIGHT AND YOU ARE A HUMAN AND IN THE UK YOU HAVE RIGHTS!!!

I feel that your pressure could be your tipped uterus - BUT - Posture can very well tip it the other way into a much more normal position. And thus - Your problem will cease and no surgery is needed.

I am in posture - I am a bad sitter in posture but I still remember most of the time - And I have to say that when i got here what - 4yrs ago now - My uterus was leaving the Introitis and now it isnt - I got to a stage 3 because I was stupid and lifted some very heavy stuff (That is the only thing i can think of I did when this happened) But i have no worried about my life - Because Posture has made things gradually get better - Yeah it's not 'normal' or is it? Womens bodies change as we age......

So even if you are a sloucher - Like me - You pull youyrself UP - and everything feels better for it...

Please - Do not feel pressured (Where in Uk are you?) Nobody canb force you to do this - And if you feel apprehensive you should NOT go ahead until you want to (IF you would - I am pretty sure you won't once you get into posture and see what benefits you gain from it)

Please - KNOW THIS - You do not hafta go through with this - YOU are in charge - YOU are the one who is the boss NOT them!

Always know that and feel free to email me if you need to go further to complaining through your PCT - They are a pain but I managed to get them to listen to me on other issues so I am sure you can get through - If the consultant at the hospital is pressuring you - Get another one! They work for YOu - Never forget that without you they would have no job at all.

Take some deep breaths my friend - Know all women here are here for you - And most know I am only an email away - I am here for you now - I just dopn't post a whole lot as have been real busy - Doing what? LIVING and that is with a grade 3 - :-)

Please - Never forget I am here - We are all here - And YOU are the boss of YOUR body.

Take care

Sue

Scuse all typos - I am possessed - lol

Sometimes youre holding someone else's heart in your hands. You can drop that heart & bruise it. You can squash that heart & hurt it. Or you can stomp on it & totally annihalate it. You stomp on that heart or bruise it. It can forever be changed ♥

you need to get some really great anatomy pictures to look at (Christine's book has some good ones). Your vagina does in fact slant backwards towards your bum. So you are right on there. You can figure this out during sex if you like- try to have him straight up and in- it won't work- we are wonderfully made to fit together well- but you need some pictures so you can really grasp what is going on and what we mean when we talk about positioning the uterus over the pubic bone.
I could draw it for you but to describe it would take forever.
I am glad you are feeling better. and that you are considering giving your body a little while to heal. You can get there- you will be able to do anything you need to. Enjoy that baby. Motherhood can slow you down and IMO that is a wonderful thing.
I also suggest reading "taking charge of your fertility" it describes the cervix and it's position during a full monthly cycle. There is also a website called mybeautifulcervix- that has awesome pictures and shows the cervix dipping down into the vagina. totally normal for your cervix to change positions throughout the month and even the day.

Hi Nica

Thank goodness Sue posted re the UK. Now I think of it, pain and discomfort on the left side has been mentioned by several members, including Sue, over the years. My organs were lop-sided and uncomfortaable for quite a while but, like Sue, I felt much better once my cervix centralised. It did come down some more when it centralised but it was such a relief. My symptoms started getting much better after that.

It sounds like you are feeling better in yourself and more confident about taking your health in your own hands, rather than fearfully putting it in the hands of others.

Cancelling your surgery might be a good way to start again. You can always set the surgery up again later, as Sue says, but I doubt that you will. The decision is yours. Get out from under that horrible shadow for a while, maybe for good. I can't see much point in postponing it, particularly as it scares you so much. I really think you will benefit from reading Christine Kent's book, Saving the Whole Woman. Make sure you get the second edition. You can get it from the main website. While you are waiting for the book have a look at the FAQ's on the main site homepage as well. That will get you started with posture etc. This is not a paid ad for the book. It is a book that has changed my life so much and taught me so much about my own pelvic organs at a time in my life when I thought I knew it all.

Mae, you will be delighted with the second edition. It has much better diagrams and explanations in it, and of course the workout, and firebreathing.

Nica, once you have the book you will gain a much better understanding of how your pelvic organs work and the amazing relationship between the organs and the fascio-musculo-skeletal system that supports them and helps them to function properly. It also has a very referenced chapter describing the different type of surgical repairs with their side effects and possible complications. All the hard data in this chapter comes from mainstream peer-reviewed medical journals. Doctors know about the problems but continue to operate despite the problems the woman is likely to experience as a result of the surgery.

Christine is right. We cannot look at one particular organ in isolation. The skeleton is much more than a frame to hang body parts from. The whole body is a whole organism, all interrelated. Unfortunately, IMHO, the thick dotted line between medical specialisations causes doctors to see body parts in isolation which limits how much they can know about the whole body. Doctors can save and preserve life but they also run the risk of destroying it. It is hard to judge as a layperson which is which. Also doctors do not have a monopoly on what is best for a person's body. You need to do a lot of enquiring and reading to know what is best for your body, especially when it comes to non-life-threatening conditions which can turn nasty if inappropriate surgical interventions are done.

BTW Nica, you can find my story "The Two Doors" on www.wholewoman.com behind the link Readers Stories.

I probably sound a bit like a zealot to you. If so, it is only because of the experiences I have had that have shown me that I am much better off in the long run looking after my prolapses myself, and because of the narrow escape I had from unnecessary surgical procedures that the doctor told me were my only option, and that these prolapses would definitely worsen, leaving me in poor shape in old age and other scary stuff.

Happy reading

Louise

I am so glad you are thinking again - When you have read the book and know MORE than the doctors themselves will ever admit - Then you can tell them things and they will fob you off no more!

When I feel my draggiest I use a tampon sideways - This only happend for about a day before my period for me - The tampon (I call it the shelf) stops things from feeling too low...

I believe the l3eft sided [ain is all to do with the fact when you have keyhole surgery they go in from the left - The surgeon told me this is because the entry is easier as more internal organs are on the right.....

This leads me to believe that as there is more space on the left - Organs are more free to move.... If this means that the whole left side is less filled... The left side could have the room to move more and descend faster...
This may make no sense lol...

But I know mine started as a pressing to the left - Then a harder pressing to the left (No pain for me but I was already in posture for two years before this happened due to my own stupidity)

Once all centralised - The pressing went away...

This could be that things are pressing on nerves etc - As many women who have had surgery complain of pain in legs etc - This is normally due to nerve damage from people having a prod and poke and stuff inside of the body...

Nerves can sort themselves out over time - This can take alot of time - But also - Apparently accu[uncture can sort out nerve pains - I might be testing this for a different reason soon - When I find a chinese accupuncturist whom is close enough to me (This is for a problem in my left arm not for a POP lol but if it can sort that nerve out - I will endeavour to be accupuncturized more - lol)

Be well and make sure YOU call the shots - Not them!

Sometimes youre holding someone else's heart in your hands. You can drop that heart & bruise it. You can squash that heart & hurt it. Or you can stomp on it & totally annihalate it. You stomp on that heart or bruise it. It can forever be changed ♥