Vaginal Varicose Veins or Urethrocele???

Hi Davemayamum

Welcome. It is not surprising that you are experiencing these symptom at your stage of pregnancy. All sorts of weird things happen to a woman's body during pregnancy, including varicose veins in the lower body and funny bladder control stuff. Some are common, others are not. Every woman's body experiences pregnancy differently.

I guess that nobody is going to treat you at this point in pregnancy, whichever it is, so it will just be a matter of waiting until you have birthed the baby and your body returns to pre-pregnant state after 12 months or so. You may never know which it was.

Exactly what symptoms are you experiencing? And do any of the things you have tried make any difference at all?

Cheers

Louise

Hi Davemayamom

It sounds to me that you're pretty observant and have a prety good understanding of what has happened in your body and what is happening now. You have also taken just about all the steps I can think of to alleviate the discomfort.

I had similar dreadful fullness during late pregnancy, and after, my second birth. It felt like I had a football blown up in my vagina. Using a mirror to have a look was not a pretty sight, all purple and swollen and distended during late pregnancy. I spent a fair bit of time lying down late in that pregnancy and after the birth too. The only way I could get relief was to lie for 10 minutes or so upside down with my legs over the back of a sofa, so all the pressure was off my vulva. I hope you are able to take the pressure off in this way as well.

I can remember walking down the corridor of the hospital the day after giving birth, and being able to pull my tummy muscles right in, looking like I had never been pregnant. I was so happy to be able to feel my tummy muscles again and see my toes again. :-) I felt so smug, cos none of the other Mums looked as slim as I did. Self-righteous bitch I was!! I think that *good* posture was my undoing. That is what caused such dreadful pressure and pelvic congestion when I was back home a week later with a toddler, a newborn, a household to run and a husband who was back doing long hours at work. I paid for my self-righteousness in the end!

I can only encourage you to allow your belly to do its own thing after birth, and allow your belly and pubic bone to take the weight of your uterus and bladder, instead of pushing them down on your perineum and down the plughole by pulling your tummy in. Do your postnatal exercises by all means but do Wholewoman workout as well. There is plenty of time for getting your shape back. It is Wholewoman posture that is important in that postpartum period, not your waist measurement. Ignore the siren call of your jeans in the wardrobe. Put them in mothballs and buy yourself some nice new stretchy leggings, stretchy skirts and long stretchy tops from the maternity boutique, *but* leave them wrapped up in pretty paper with a Baby Congrats card addressed to you, as a present for yourself when you are a brand new Mum!. There is nothing worse than those tired old maternity clothes once pregnancy is over!

Rest up. Just a short lie down a few times a day with butt raised slightly will remove the pressure, at least temporarily, I am sure.

Keep calling back. There will be others with feedback for you.

Cheers

Louise

If I were you I would want to know exactly what was going on-
In the articles section of this website you can find the self-exam- get familiar with what your body feels like.
Then if you are brave- check out some photos on the net- there are some non-porn sites you can visit.

you can also find photos of varicose veins in that area and photos of urethrocele.

The phrase "doesn't know his ass from his elbow" comes to mind- I don't know how it is possible that an OB would not know what s/he was looking at and can not imagine why a urologist would scope you to decide if you had a varicose vein or not.
I am guessing that there is a much more straight forward way to figure it all out than that.

The great news is that you only have 10 more weeks of this and then the pressure is off-
you will benefit greatly from a gentle birth- No pushing- hands and knees position- read about that too and protect your pelvic floor.

alemama took the words right outta my mouth
a scope to diagnose a varicose vein? sounds like overkill. I had a vulvar varicosity during my second pg. it hurt bad. and burned when I peed. when you think of it as a hemorhoid, its not so foreign a concept. mine went away shortly after the baby was born.
my cystocele, which may also be a urethrocele, feels very different to me. though everyone really might experience these things differently, I'm surprised an ob couldn't tell the difference between the two based on visual examination and palpation.

sounds like you're already doing what you can. only thing I'd add is getting on your hands and knees and gently rounding your back and then letting it sag down a few times a day. this takes the weight of the baby off the pelvis and perineum and encourages blood flow to the area. feels good for the low back too.

my fourth was born with me on my hands and knees and no pushing aside from what the uterus was doing. it was pretty cool, and my 'celes fared pretty well. its something to look into.

could be different for everyone. but when I had the varicose vein, it was inside the vulva. it felt, and looked, like a hemorrhoid (which is a varicose vein) or like a bad varicose vein like you'd get behind your knees or something. it felt raw and burned occasionally.

my 'celes are lumps and bumps in the vaginal wall. the skin feels the same as the rest of the area. at my worst, the symptoms were pressure and discomfort, a feeling of something falling out or improperly placed tampon.

a varicose vein is when the vein bulges to accomodate the increased blood in the area.

a urethrocele is when the urethra bulges against the walls of the vagina.

they are pretty similar in terms of what is happening to your body. both can be a result of poor posture, diet, lifestyle habits, pregnancy and childbirth.

I have had this for so long..I hesitate to ask! I am trying to explain my cystocele to someone! What bulges out of my vagina when there is a bulge?? I don't think it is my bladder..I think it is the walls of my vagina..am I right? You would think I would know by now..but I really don't. Regards, ~Mae

Hi Mae

I suspect it is both. Your bladder is probably now directly behind the vaginal wall, instead of having a layer of fascia separating them where the bulge is. The vaginal wall, of course, is very stretchy when called up on to stretch, so it just stretches like a patch of worn out lycra in front of the place where the fascia damage is, and the bladder falls into the pouch that results. Then the whole bulge, a bit of bladder covered with vaginal wall, shows at the vulva. Does this sound right?

L

ps I am sure that men with their (generally) superior spacial awareness skills would be able to conceptualise better than we can, if they had female genitals etc. But they don't. :-(

Sometimes it sounds right Louise.. ( and now, why am I going to cry here?? I have been at this soo long) I have a bulge that feels like a man's testicle trying to escape and other times, I have this thing that feels like a chicken neck slipping out (especially after a strong bowel movement..) that I have to push back in..what in the world is that?? Tough day..althought I do have many good ones..for which I am very grateful... ~Mae

It is easy for me to say, and it is obvious that you are really worried about it. If you are happy that it is nothing more than a bit that is coming out where it shouldn't, I would suggest that you just keep doing what you are doing, whatever it is. I know that my intestines seem to move around after a big bowel motion, and it sometimes it feels like there are lumps like potatoes moving around in my abdomen. I know it is not mobile spuds, cos I chew my spuds well, but ykwim?

I can remember this feeling from childhood, when I am sure I was constipated, but my Mum could never understand what I was talking about, so I guess she did not experience that same sensation. I used to liken it to "my intestines rearranging themselves" after the big poo had gone down the gurgler, and I was always much more comfortable afterwards.

What I am saying is that it may not be the same thing coming through the damaged bit of fascia or there maybe two different things happening. The chook neck sounds to me like empty rectum or large intestine further up. Maybe the testicle thing is just a big bit of stool caught in the pouch. Is it front or back of vagina?

L

O.K. I am over the cry and feeling sorry for myself..crazy me! Sometimes I think my prolapse is worse than the others I read about. I live with this "ball" (I guess in front of my vagina) that seems to want to hang outside of my body..I am constantly living, thinking, breathing ways to make it better..lately Vit. C, Replens..whatever works at the moment! It's tough to manage..but I guess it's tough for us all. Thanks for being there for me..Mae

Mae

Have you tried any upside down positions to encourage it to stay inside? Like that yoga position, I think it is the prayer position on knees with forehead and most of your arms on the floor and your butt sticking up, then do some jiggling (while nobody else is in the house, TMI) to jiggle them all back to where they are supposed to be. I am sure that pelvic organs get themselves all tangled up with each other, perhaps as we rock and roll (turning over in bed) during the night, and sometimes they just need to be turned upside down and jiggled back properly into their little fitted fascia coat so they end up where they are meant to, a bit more effectively. I know it wouldn't work for the long term, but it might for a while.

Cheers

Louise

No Louise, I haven't tried that..but I will. My husband has an inversion table for his sometimes bad back and I thought about trying that as well. Someone mention that that helps for a while. Today seems to be a much better day. Yesterday was a tough one. I think I overdosed on Vitamin C (upped it another 1,000 mgs. since I came off the antibiotics) and it didn't sit well with me. Guess I reached "bowel tolerance." Running to the loo all day played havoc with my prolapse.

My good days are very good and my bad days are awful. I am bothered by something I read here (I think you mentioned it) about birthing one's uterus or whatever organ. On a really bad day that's what it feels like I've done after a bowel movement. I will often have to move my bulge back in, but at other times it feels like it may be something more than the bulge that needs to go back. Of course it doesn't help that I panic and quickly get everything back into place...it would be much more helpful if I checked it out and tried to figure out what was going on.

This can usually be controlled by eating right, the posture and keeping from getting dry. I am wondering if my prolapse is unusual..or if others have the same thing happen??

Thoughts.. any more suggestions?

Thanks,

~Mae

I know what you mean. We got back from our 3 week, 4000km camping trip about a week ago. POP's held up fine during the trip. Since then I have been working at ground level in full squat a couple of hours a day cleaning up an area in preparation for brick paving. Three days into it I realised that my cystocele was right down in my vulva again, and my cervix was almost peeking. Wha????

It seemed that my bladder and uterus were being pushed down and I couldn't figure out why, till I remembered the squatting. Then I had a couple of big bowel movements which cut down some pressure. I also realised that I was having some very fertile type mucous. I don't know if it was because my POP's were very low, or whether my menopausal body was having a last gasp of fertility. The mucous has gone a bit cloudy again today, but is still there. My vaginal tissues feel very plump and big. But the cystocele and cervix have moved back up high again today, which is good news. I will know in a couple of weeks when I will either get a bleed or not, whether or not hormones were involved.

Funny thing is that I was quite confident that the POP's would go back up again. I guess I knew that I had not done them any traumatic injury, so they were likely to go back. It is amazing how much trust I now have in my body.

One thing that I think did help was to do that yoga posture I mentioned before. I really think that wriggled my organs back into their little fitted coats, cos I couldn't feel the fullness as much after doing it, and haven't felt that pressure today at all (but I have been on my computer for most of the day, no squatting.)

I think the inversion thing is worth trying. I think it was Alemema also suggested that to somebody I really felt like a badly packed suitcase a couple of days ago, but feel OK now.

I do need to just finish off the groundwork for the paving tomorrow afternoon. I will be able to tell by tomorrow night how my pelvic contents will handle it. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers

Louise

Finally getting that built, eh Louise?? Sorry, I couldn't resist..guess I'm back to my old self! Hope the work goes well and you do well too.

~Mae

:-)

Very good. L

hey mae, I'll sit over there with ya

your bulge sounds a lot like mine. the wrinkly testicular type skin is just vaginal wall. look it up in the second edition of the book, its described well in there. I'd get the page number for you, but the books in my room and my dh is fast asleep. would hate to wake him, he was up all night last night with the baby. will look it up for you tomorrow if you can't find it. I think its in the pg chapter.

you've got to do something though about the bms. sounds like youre straining too much. put an end to that! that alone could make a huge difference. I know it sounds drastic, but try going vegan for two weeks and see what happens.
and I can't say this enough LEARN THE NAULI!!!!!!!!! I'm telling you that stuff is awesome. you can do it, you can do it, you can do it...

and if you are in fact that unusual, take solace in the fact that I am too. at least we're not alone!

Don't get discouraged! My rectocele has always been worse than my cyctocele and when it is very bad, I also need to push back the bulge. It seems to be getting better lately as I have been trying to control my diet so that I "poo" only one time a day and hopefully first thing in the morning and then my rectocele seems to behave.

I read in your post, that in addition to taking Vitamin C, you just finished taking a round of antibiotics. I'm not sure about the Vitamin C affecting your bowels, but I know from experience that antibiotics can play havoc with your bowels.

I eat a brand of yogurt that has probiotics in it.. (Activia)and I swear that this has helped calm down my intestines.

Maybe just something else to add to your arsenal.
Regards,
~Mary Kay

Hi Karrymae,

I think you are right. The antibiotics probably were playing havoc with my body. I haven't been on antibiotics since getting my cystocele, which has been about 4 years now. I am usually pretty good at controlling my prolapse through diet, posture and keeping moist. The vitamin C helps even more...but I had a really bad day the other day and it threw me into a tizzy. In addition to that, someone asked me about my prolapse and explaining it while having a bad day really got to me. So, I had a major pity party (to which poor Louise was invited) and got it out of my system. My body is back to "normal" and I am manging my prolapse as well as before. I cut back on the "C"s though (taking 3,000 mgs a day instead of the upped to 4,000) and I'll do that for a while and then trying upping it again. From what I read I should be able to tolerate much more. Trying to get a lot of it naturally through food now too.

I eat the Activa for breakfast every morning. I did that successfully for a long time a while back, but then came off it. With this recent "attack" I started on it again. I too, think it is great for your intestines.

So, thanks for the input! As always, I am eternally grateful for the advice and friendship here!

Regards,
~Mae

Hi Granolamom,

Thanks for your encouragement! "Wrinkly testicular type skin" is the perfect description for what sometimes (though not usually) prolapses with me. On a bad day, after a movement, my usual bulge may protrude a little and I just push it into place, but on a horrible day that "thing" protrudes and scares the heck out of me. It's like my insides are turning inside out. I am usually pretty good about managing my prolapse, but this has not been a good week. Thank goodness I am off the antibiotics and my stomach has straightened out.

I do not have the Second Edition of Christine's book. I am ordering that today. I have the first book, the video, her balms...and I never really felt I needed more info. Not the first time (nor the last!) that I have been wrong.

I will try the Nauli again...maybe I'll get it this time.

I am also going to try my husband's inversion table, which is supposed to put everything back in place. Even though I am doing better it can always be better still.

I'll try the totally vegan thing for a while, altough I will have to at least taste the Thanksgiving turkey! It really shouldn't be too hard as I mostly do that now. I allow myself very little meat and/or pasta, as they both have an effect on me.

Thank you for making me feel better..yes, I feel less alone...but I certainly wish you didn't have to deal with this as well!

Regards,
~Mae

.
Oh Mae - In catching up here, I was sorry to find that you had been through an especially tough spell recently, but I am so glad to hear that you've made it through the rough water and have bounced back to "normal", kiddo. - I wish I had been around to have at least offered you a supportive cyber-hug.

Bad days can be so very overwhelming, that's for sure. My wish for you (and for me) and for all who fall, is to be graced with that cushion of confidence that our dear Louise and others have, to help soften the impact on such crashy days. I trust that will come with time...

Good for you, getting back on a probiotic, especially following antibiotics (not being able to distinguish 'good' bacteria from bad')...Bringing the gut's flora back up to par will, of course, serve you well.

Oh, best wishes as you revisit Nauli as Granolamom urged you to do, Mae - It sounds like such a wonderful exercise toward improvement - I'm betting on your being able to master it too, you know. Wow, just imagine how wonderful that would be, getting a rise out of Nauli on top of the 'C'-crest you've been riding!!!

Anyway, I just wanted to touch base, and wish you well. You've weathered the storm, trooper you - Way to hang in there! ((HUGS))

...How comforting is it to know that when any of us are down (or even out), we have a place to go where everyone just knows - Such caring souls here, this sisterhood of the POP, so generously sharing and supportive as we regain our bearings - God bless you gals! ((HUGS))

Be good

~♥Blue

Hi Blue,

So nice to hear from you, as always. Thanks for sending hugs my way!!! I am doing sooo much better, but I can always use a hug!

This was my first "really down" episode (although I've certainly had semi-downs!) since back when I first got my prolapse about four years ago. That was a downer for a while, but after not too long, I got busy researching and learning to manage my prolapse. I've always tried to keep a good attitude because I think that is so important to good health.

The antibiotics were clearly playing havoc with my body. I had no control over my prolapse because my stomach was so upset. I spent most of two days running to the "loo" (I love that word..I learned it here..probably from Louise!) and things just seemed to keep getting worse.

Much better now that I've been off the antibiotics for a few days. Back to my old self..maybe even better! Silver lining here maybe?? Maybe once in a while a really bad day isn't such a bad thing, at least for me. It certainly makes me really really (yes, two really's) appreciate the good days!

It's amazing because I have pretty much figured out what I can and can't do on a given day, in relation to what will happen the next day. It's so consistent. If I stay in posture, eat sensibly (avoiding meat like the plague) stay active and keep my weight down, I am almost guaranteed to have good days. But, what do you do when you get sick and the sickness and/or med's throw everything off? Well, normally I would pick myself up and start all over again. Not this time. Instead I threw, what my dd likes to call, a Pity Party! LOL!

I am continuing to take the C's...although in a lower dose, in case uppping it was the problem. I'll try upping it next week and see what happens. It's great though. Someone on here said it is good for thrush. I wondered about mouth thrush, as I get that every now and then, which my doctor says some people are just prone to. My tongue is normally lightly coated (I''d say that was TMI...but not on this Forum!), but since taking the C's, my tongue is a thing of beauty! I keep checking it out in the mirror to see if it's still clear. Has to be the C's doing that I would think!

Thanks for caring Blue. You're right..this Sisterhood of Pop is wonderful! How lonely it would be to live with this alone. And, alone I would be, as the only people I know with POP are the wonderful women on this Forum...except for a friend of a friend. I find that so amazing since it is suppose to be so common! I worked for many years as a teacher with many other women teachers who were just like family. We discussed EVERYTHING...and yet I never heard one person mention POP! Very strange!

Take care Blue and keep in touch! Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours and to the Sisterhood! (There I go..stealing from you again) :-)

Warm regards,

~Mae

well a little off topic but I just wondered if you have been changing your toothbrush frequently?
Also you can treat it with GSE between brushings
Swishing with GSE will also help - when it is active swish once an hour
and of course no sugar.

C is a big immune booster and yeast is a sign of immune disorder. It is no surprise to me that it is helping the thrush- I wonder what is messing with your immune system? Could be as simple as a food allergy or as complex as mono flare ups-
think on it- but don't take the dentists word for it- it is not normal.

Hey Alemama

What is GSE? And do you mean swish your mouth or swish the toothbrush?

L

Grapefruit Seed Extract

Marie

No, it's definitely not the toothbrush. I am meticulous about oral cleaning because I am always aware that thrush could become a problem. I see the hygentist three times a year for cleaning and at each visit I get a new toothbrush. I use a prescription toothpaste, Rising Denta 5000 Plus and rinse with Colgate Peroxyl. It seems to do the trick as I haven't had thrush in several years. I will usually get it if I have a virus, or the flu and run a fever. It's been like that all my life, and like prolapse, I just manage it since they can find nothing wrong with blood tests or examination (knock wood).

So what is GSE? You know me..I'm always trying new things to improve my health issues. Not that I'm complaining...if I just have to manage POP and an occasional bout of thrush, I count myself among the lucky ones!

Thanks for your input!

~Mae

Grapefruit Seed Extract- and it is powerful stuff.
You would need to change your toothbrush once a week or so- Thrush seems to have a two week life cycle- so if you don't feed it and clean well you can avoid reinfection. You can buy a mouthwash with GSE (I recently read in a peer-reviewed medical journal a case study of the effectiveness of GSE in mouthwash compared to other prescription mouthwashes- it was a great article- and found GSE to be MORE effective than prescriptions- with almost none of the side-effects) or you can make your own- just 15 drops in one ounce of distilled water will work well-
you can apply it directly to your toothbrush to clean it between each brushing-
and when you have active thrush you can swish with it once an hour.
If you choose to take it internally follow up with probiotics an hour or so later because it can destroy good bacteria as well.

and it isn't just good for yeast. It is antimicrobial, antibacterial, and antiviral- I recently had a skin rash that itched and looked exactly like psoriasis - after trying many different creams - eliminating things from my diet I thought might have caused it and increasing my vitamin C I finally made a GSE, Teatree, Oliveoil mix and burned the rash (yes it can burn you) and with in a week it was gone.
It is known to kill strep as a gargle-
some hospitals use it instead of bleach to clean with-

read up about it-
I truly believe that anything we need to treat illness and infirmity is already naturally out there.

I met a woman at the park who is a PhD - plant medicine- she told me that they recently found a cure for malaria right in the region where malaria is killing so many children- the medicine is in a plant that when eaten with the surrounding dirt saves the lives of those affected.

Wow! That's good news about GSE and even better news about the cure for malaria, of course! I will look for the mouthwash with GSE in it and give it a try. Thanks and have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Regards,
~Mae

I finally went to a Gastroenterologist because everything below my belly button was not feeling so good. She had me do a daily food diary, and told me to "reach up there" and feel if there is any stool stuck. Well, low and behold... I did a test in the shower and found a little "lump" moving around back there and guided it to it's way out. Anyway, I really like the predictability of a bowel movement and decided to take 1 Teaspoon of Pure Psyllium Husk (4grams) in a glass of warm water at night right before bed. I have been doing this for about 4 weeks. Well, aside from the yucky taste and texture of it, it has been a complete DREAM. I have tried everything, from veggies, fruits, which fruits, which veggies, wheat, no wheat, white bread only, meat, only chicken, no red meat, fish, no fish, blah, blah, blah.... It started to feel never ending and I was getting depressed, feeling like I just couldn't "go" like a normal person anymore.

I think it's because the Psyllium Husk has soluble and insoluble fiber in it. It basically turns your bowels into a well oiled machine.

I take it every night. Give it a try. It won't give you diarrhea either because it absorbs any liquid and turns it into a gel. It really has been a gift.

Hi All

If you have ever tried grinding flax seed (Oh, no! Not this again!) that is wet, you will know what Mom30 is talking about. Flax seed too forms a thick gel when crushed wet. It is called mucilage (and they used to make clear glue out of it, as all of us oldies know!). This is the same stuff that comes from psyllium husk. The more water you add the 'gellier' it gets. It is partly this water absorption of the mucilage in psyllium husk or flaxseed that keeps stool soft.

Other plants produce mucilage as well. It is one of nature's little tricks to protect seeds in the digestive tract of birds and other animals that might eat them, makes a glue that sticks the seed to whatever it lands on when the bird poops it out again, and swells to store water for seedcoat softening to allow the seed to germinate when it rains.

Australian Mistletoe is one of these plants. Mistletoe Birds (cute little guys) bite off mistletoe berries and eat them. There is mucilage around the seed in the berry, which protects the seed from being digested, because it swells up around the seed in the digestive tract. When the bird poops on a tree branch the seed with its mucilage covering sticks to the branch and provides a moist medium for the seed to germinate and join itself to the branch in a parasitic bond. I have seen this happen. After rain the mucilage swells up again and stores water that lands on it while the seed is stuck to the branch. It is another example of clever natural design.

There are a lot of plants that produce mucilage from their different parts. It has several functions in plants other than glue and stored water source. Any seed or foodstuff that produces mucilage, or swells with water will help constipation as long as you feed it enough water.

Cheers

Louise

I've had the same problem when I was pregnant with both of my children and I was told with each child it only gets worse. I found that resting and ice seemed to be the best way to relieve some of the pain. Not to scare you, as everyone's body reacts differently, but I felt like my vagina was on fire during delivery. I would request ice if possible to place on your vagina during labor up til you are ready to push. Wish I had. however this is something you should discuss with your doctor. Best of luck.