new here: desperately need advice

congratulations on that new baby.

enema. I can not emphasize enough just how bad it is for your pelvic organs and pelvic floor to strain with bowel movements. So the most important thing right now is no more straining. NONE! If you can not go with out doing this then use an enema- not a good solution for the long term but for the short term that is the way to go. Also alter the way you position your body when you do go- do not sit down on the seat- instead lean forward onto your feet and use a standing squat- (great work out for the legs and butt).
as for the diet- go ahead and cut all meat, wheat, dairy, caffeine or sugar. Drink water like crazy- try to get a gallon in. Journal your food intake- chart how much fiber you are getting- soluble and insoluble- and watch your magnesium intake too. Magnesium can really help.

is it too early to panic? there is no need to panic at all. You probably do have a cystocele and a rectocele- you can check it out on your own on the articles page-
self exam link


anyway. Glad you are here- take a deep breath. Get your constipation under control and enjoy that baby!!!

congrats on your lovely new baby
and i am so sorry you are dealing with this! but like alemama said, don't panic. you are aware of what is going on and taking action, which is what is so imp't.
yes, straining is very dangerous. i found, once my rectocele appeared, that i had to alter my diet radically. i can eat almost no dairy, or i get terribly constipated. when i do eat badly, and get constipated, i find whole flax seeds soaked in water for at least an hour help (they make a horrible sludge, but it helps...) as does tinned prunes. dried fruit can constipate unless you soak and then stew them as they soak up a lot o f water in your system. and yes, drink drink dr ink. if you are breastfeeding you need to drink even more. i find i need to keep drinking at night, so would have 2 -3 glasses of water next to the bed and drink every time my baby woke up. now that he's sleeping all night (hurray!) i'm getting more constipated (hmmm....).

also experiment with position. someone here (sue? louise????) always recommends twisting to the right to get things moving. someone else suggested foot up on teh seat. someone else leaning over.
i find stressing only makes it worse. relax relax relax.

i haven't tried enemas, but i agree--anything to not strain right now, till your system gets working.

this period will pass. i know how hard it is to enjoy your little one when dealing with this. i also knew my little one was my last, and was so sad i spent so much of the first few months distracted by my POPs. but savour the moments you can relax, and know that as you get to grips with all this your mind will focus more on your family... so that you can enjoy your beautiful little one--and bigs ones!

Congratulations from me too. I had forgotten how much fluid a baby takes out of your body in milk! Think of the volume of wee in all those nappies every day! I think Kiki is right about that. I assume you are in the northern hemisphere where it is winter. If you are not doing a lot of active exercise during cooler months it is tempting not to drink as much, cos you don't get as thirsty. I used to have a mug that held about 400ml when I was breastfeeding. Every time I sat down to feed I would grab a mug of warm water to drink while I was feeding. Solmetimes I would not finish it, and that was fine. Mine were all cool time babies who fed frequently so I never had to worry about drinking extra. Also, check out the colour of your urine. I bet it is quite yellow when your stool is hard.

Your boobs have probably settled down to more manageable dimensions now, but they are actually producing more milk than they were just after birthing. That early watermelon boobs thing is largely glandular swelling, getting the breast tissue ready to produce milk. So don't think you are producing less milk now. Your breasts are just getting more efficient.

It does sound like you have a rectocele, but many women do for the first few weeks after birth. It will certainly get better over the next 12 months or more but might not go away altogether this time around. You see, all these Wholewoman techniques reduce symptoms but we all still have our 'prolapses' and always will have. Wholewoman is not a cure, but a way of managing our bodies when they have prolapsed pelvic organs.

Prolapse is one of those stupid medical words which describes a change of position of organs. That is all. There is nothing actually wrong with the organs. They have just moved, which causes them to sit and behave differently sometimes. If you have diabetes you have diabetes, and all diabetics are treated with regimens that control blood sugar levels because it is the blood sugar levels that cause the same types of damage to organs and tissues in every diabetic. Prolapse is quite different. It involves one or more organs, and may produce different and very variable symptoms in different women at different times, none of which is life threatening. I think that is why medicine is generally not a very helpful place to look for solutions.

Be patient. Drink more. Use Wholewoman techniques and you will experience improvement. Use Colace and/or enemas in the meantime to get the straining out of your life.

Cheers

Louise

Hi Honeydew

Sorry, I read your initial post too quickly and thought baby was a few weeks older. Making too much milk could be exacerbating your dehydration. It is possible to reduce your milk supply quite easily in a controlled way if baby is having difficulty coping with the milk or the flow rate. I would strongly suggest you seek out a lactation consultant or other properly trained breastfeeding counsellor for some help in doing this, as there are a few possible factors to consider. It can be to do with the 'sucking' action of the baby and how s/he is attaching, or the amount of times baby is stimulating each breast in 24 hours and the distribution of those feeds. It can also involve a very strong letdown reflex which is too much for baby to cope with. It would be good if you could have somebody assess all this and watch you feeding, then help you out with some strategies and tricks to tame those lovely boobs of yours. They are obviously doing their job very well and just need some fine tuning.

I am sure it will settle down in the next few weeks but you can help it along, especially as you seem to be having trouble getting enough fluid in to your body and that seems to be affecting the emptying of your bowels.

Cheers

Louise

I also had huge oversupply issues with both. i think sometimes it's just there, regardless of what the baby is doing. I don't think drinking less will help, so keep drinking all you can.

I would definately contact a breastfeeding counselor to look at how to deal with it. however beware! a specialist i saw advised me to feed reclining for a month, which i did for about a week and i'm sure contributed to my POP as it's exactly the wrong position for your organs. also, it made all the attachment problems worse as our baby couldn't open his mouth properly, so lying back didn't help (though hey, a good supply means once they are on they get all they need!)

there are herbs that can help. you can try feeding just on one side per feed. if that doesn't work after a week and if baby is gaining well, you can feed primarily on one side for x hours, then on the other for x hours. you have to express a bit on the other side at first to avoid mastitis, but it does reduce supply. you build up to however many hours is needed to reduce your supply, so start with 2 to 3 hours for a few days and reassess.

here is a good link with some info...
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html

re the constipation--experiment. i don't find ground flax seeds work, i need to have them whole (they are better for you ground, but for this purpose i go for whole). and a friend was told to soak them till they make a sludge and eat that. and i definately find tinned prunes soften all. you may find all you are doing will be enough--you just need to get what's in your system out over the next day or two.

and take care of yourself. rest as much as is possible with an active family and give yourself time. as you say, lots of us have been there and now how hard it is. but i also know that we've gotten to the other side, and you will too.

I am now 9 weeks postpartum. And I can totally relate to where you are. I would cry whenever I had to have a BM. I just knew that I didn't want to push but had to in order to relieve the pressure. My suggestion is to NOT STRAIN at all costs. I would eat a bowl of Fiber One every morning and pretty much cut out dairy all together. At three weeks pp I wasn't doing any excercise though. I had one bout of constipation at 2 weeks pp that was a major setback, so just try not to strain even if you have to get a laxative, splint...whatever. Also, it was suggested somewhere to put a stool under your feet when you sit on the toilet, and that helped me a lot to get in a good position. I did not ever have a rectocele even though I had problems with BMs, I think it was just regular postpartum stuff. With my high fiber diet everything went back to normal in a few weeks. Now I added some dairy back in with no problems and even cut out some of the fiber.

It's been a while since I was nursing (40 when I had my last child 8 yrs ago)but I have had a life long battle with hard stools and constipation. Drinking more liquids is important for both. I tried everything for constipation and the only long term solution for me is to take magnesium supplements (originally suggested by a natural practitioner). Some magnesium (like oxide and citrate can cause stomache irritation). Aspartate or combination formulas can be good. Start with 1 a day and continue to add 1 more per day until your stools become soft and you do not need to strain at all. Stool softeners work well for temporary problem but if your problem persists and diet changes do not solve, this solution is a safe alternative. I couldn't manage my POP problems if I couldn't manage my bowels. I recently saw a urogynecologist for pelvic floor disfunction. He suggested surgery for my class 2 rectocele and cystocele that causes few symptoms. UGG! I plan to get WW book and hope to improve posture and support enough to manage on my own.

hi there and congrats on the new baby
my kids are up and about so I only have a moment but wanted to add

careful about the stool for positioning while on the toilet. it actually tips your pelvis back and puts more pressure on the pelvic organs. what you might want to try is to lean forward and raise your bum up off the seat a bit.

I also have had an oversupply of milk with each of my 4 children. I found block feeding to be most successful, and the 'nipple sandwich' for controlling a very forceful letdown.
various LC's had recommended various techniques for reducing my supply, each created more problems than they solved. but its very important that you not limit your fluid intake. aside from constipation, it can set you up for a UTI.

I've been lucky in the bm department, rarely get constipated. but when I do, my go-to foods are stewed pears and oatmeal. works every time.

try not to let this prolapse thing ruin your baby's first months for you. try to believe us when we say so much of this will resolve in time. and you're learning how to help that happen. 3 weeks pp is very early, its definitely NOT time to panic

glad you are taking the suggestions to heart. Beans are fantastic- tonz of fiber- I can eat 3 or 4 cups a day= but then I don't eat meat so I need the protein. Get a water bottle and force yourself to drink to down each time you sit down to nurse- if you build it into your routine you will get plenty. Start your day off with a big glass of water- 10 ounces or so.

I have flirted with the idea of this prolapse thing being in the range of normal for women with children. I don't think Christine agrees with the idea- but not really sure.
Personally since having prolapse and talking with other women about it I have not come across a single mom of more than one kid who has not had one symptom or another. I run with a pretty crunchy crowd- ladies who have their babies at home- breastfeed, etc. So it isn't like I am chatting with a group of women who all had hospital births or birth flat on their backs or have forceps deliveries.
Now I have done a study of posture and lifestyle habits and have concluded that most of my friends all have terrible "mom" posture- shoulders up to their ears- curled under butts- and sucked in tummies. They wear pants that don't fit well and compress the abdomen and they are all super mom- not resting much. So who knows. Perhaps with these changes my daughters will not have to have sagging walls-

But I have to imagine that the vagina is made to have some give- there is mention of prolapse through out history- and we are wonderfully designed to reproduce. So I think it would be unreal to imagine the vagina would be unchanged by birth- it is well known that the body births the second baby more easily than the first- and I think some laxity in the vagina contributes to this.

I recently read about 100 birth stories (complete with pictures) from a midwife who travels across the boarder to Tijuana to help the very impoverished women to birth at home. These women are so poor they often eat once a day or even every other day. Many things interested me about these stories and photos but one comment he continued to make was that with some of the women the crowning took a long time (more than 40 min) and he attributed that to very tight muscles. I saw this comment only on first birth stories- and only on 4 or 5 of the 100 I read. So I think the vagina adapts to childbirth- especially many births- to make the birthing process simpler.

I guess at this point I think some change in tone, some laxity is probably normal- just like breasts sag and faces get wrinkled- it is just where to draw the line that I have trouble.
I know in my situation I tore in an extreme way with my first birth and that is what really set me up for my rectocele. But I have also had great success working with my body to reduce the amount of intestine that is able to push through the weak area- and before getting pregnant again I was entirely symptom free.
So while I know the weakness will probably never go away totally I firmly believe that I have the ability to heal to the point of not noticing I have a rectocele.

You are going to be fine. You will get better than you are now. Seems like what has been bothering you the most is the constipation. Once you have that taken care of and stop straining you will start to see improvement- especially over the next two years. It is a myth that the postpartum period lasts 6 weeks. Your body- the ligaments and tendons that support your frame- the muscles of your abdomen- are all going to take time to reposition. You may stop bleeding after 6 weeks- but the healing will go on for years. The best part is that you can start now- pulling your shape into it's most natural form. Allowing your pubic bone to support your bladder and uterus as intended. You can start healthy habits now that will keep you in good shape for the rest of your life. Never again will you squish your organs into a pair of too tight blue jeans- never again will you strain to have a BM. You will do what it takes to keep your body healthy. And feel better for it.

People find different things work for them as far as positioning for a BM- Christine recommends a standing squat as most protective of the pelvic organs- if you feel any need to push. Find what works for you.

Not sure if I suggested this already- but there are some breathing exercises that are very dynamic- firebreathing and Nauli- I have had great success using these techniques for repositioning my organs. Lifting everything up and forward.

Hi Honeydew

Fancy that! I did B/F counselling for ten years when my kids were little. I can now see that you fully understand what you are dealing with breastfeedingwise. Good luck with all the anti-straining techniques. You will get there in the end.

Cheers

Louise

hi honeydew,
glad to hear that you have the fab counsellor skills to deal with the oversupply issue. it's not fun i know! but at least you know it will settle down. have you ever tried sage tea? revolting (i thought) but did help as long as i kept drinking it...

anyway, you've had tons of great suggestions here so i'm sure you'll find balance for your digestion soon. good luck in that process...

and happy new year whereever you are!

kiki

really. I heard you when you said you don't want to- but it is better than straining.

fiber can be tricky. maybe you need to bulk up the stool?

also just waiting it out may help-

eating more just for a few days

warm oats and granny smith apples?

extra magnesium

mega dose of vitamin C

drink aloe....

ok, honeydew, you're doing all the right things and your body isn't behaving. first, take a deep breath and tell yourself that THIS TOO SHALL PASS

a long while ago, someone here wrote about deep breathing while on the toilet. allowing the breath force to gently move the bowels along. I think she also spoke of visualization and that type of thing. now, I rarely battle constipation, but after my last baby I had some real trouble. the deep breathing and visualization is what I believe helped me past it. I also think (based on nothing more than my gut feeling) that in my case (and possibly yours) the constipation was due to childbirth. maybe some subtle and temporary nerve damage or I-dunno-what, but that was my sense. if that is the case, then just keep doing all the right things and in time it will pass.

one more thing, my dd used to have awful and chronic constipation. she also happens to have an anxiety disorder. finally one day a lightbulb went on in my head and I told her that the reason her body wasnt allowing her to go normally was because of her anxiety. we spoke about some things that were stressing her out, but mostly it was a general sense of anxiety,not related to anything and anxiety over bm's. and wouldn't you know it, the very next day her constipation troubles were OVER. this was a few years ago.

not to say its all in your mind, but that your mind is powerful and maybe you can think your way past this. not always possible, I know, but what've you got to lose?

hang in there, it'll pass.

our pp constipation issues seem so similar. my fourth baby was also born at home, no pushing, just 'breathing the baby out'. and I didn't have constipation issues after my other children either.

but anyway. I think that this type of nerve damage is akin to your arm going numb when you fall asleep on it. pressure or traction on the nerves can impair their function, but this doesn't mean its permanent like a severed nerve, kwim? I am too familiar with the morning rush, and I'm sure that isn't helping matters. I remember at some point, maybe like a week or two after the birth, falling apart crying and finally I asked dh to go into work late just so I could take my time in the bathroom. It was not a high point for me, what with all the hormones and sleep deprivation. I love being pg, I love being in labor and birth is awesome, but I don't do pp very well. and I remember the constipation just pushing me over the edge.
I wish somehow, you could find the time to put your bathroom needs at the top of the family priority list, but I know with a bunch of little ones that's almost laughable. but I bet it would help solve the problem.
meditate on it or something, and you'll find a way to work it out.

but I think you can safely put any concerns of surgery out of your head for now.

sometimes, if everything is too soft, i find it just doesn't move. it's a fine line for me.

i'm not sure what the answer is...but i do think relaxation is imp't but so hard with little ones & no time. i agree with granolamom...deep breathing, relax, visualise opening of your body, and don't stress.

sorry to keep throwing suggestions your way but...have you tried eating a huge bowl of green lentils freshly cooked (i do mine with sauteed onions and garlic, and cooked with bouillon powder in the water)? can't remember if i mentioned that, but a friend recommended that one & i too find it helps rather quickly.

also some people find hot drinks help more than cold, especially first thing in the morning (flask of hot water by the bed if you can safely do that--not easy with babies around!)

& know...it will pass!
i think most women deal with PP constipation. who knows why...but it is horrible, and not helped when dealing with POPs.

glad that at least the oversupply is sorting. everyone used to say how great i had so much milk--they didn't realise that actually, it's not as great as it sounds, for mothers or for their babies. so hope you have turned that corner...

yup, that's how I did it, high up on the front.
I am not surprised that you feel the cystocele more after several hours of babywearing. several hours is ALOT! several hours of just plain standing when you're pp is alot. remember that your joints are still lax and your muscles are still all stretched out. go easy on that body of yours if you can. my babies were all reflux-y, colicky, and "high needs" so I can fully understand why you might be babywearing for hours on end, but this last time around I also fully understood that I needed to rest every now and then.
my prolapse really caused me to redraw the lines between need/want. like I don't need to have all the dishes washed, I just really want it. but it don't just want to lay down and nap, I need it. it really wasn't easy for me to let the baby cry while I sat (holding him, but he was only happy if I was standing) but I just knew that I couldn't stand all day long the way I did for the older ones. and he's ok.

i am remembering a real low point was that I couldn't hold my 3rd child as much as I wanted to after discovering pop. But, I did as much as I could. And, the reality was that it was affected. After he started walking (and only at 16.5 mos!!!) I really felt much better. It's a balance, I think. And, you realize that they get what they need, especially if you are being so conscientious. Maybe a little more skin to skin time, or a little more daddy wearing time -- most importantly, remember you are doing your best and you're doing great.

once I found my pop and found that babywearing bothered it- I quit until I had a good understanding of how to not aggravate my pop.
Babywearing was always more for me than for the baby. I wore the baby so I could do dishes or laundry- so I could sweep or go to the playground with my older children. If my baby truly needed to be wrapped close to me to feel happy and secure I would do it no matter how my pop responded with the faith that when the baby did not need it anymore I would still have plenty of time to heal.
There is quite a bit of lifting and holding involved with little ones- I preferred to use a wrap or ergo to the hip carry- and I like a back carry better for my pop too.
I guess what I am saying is that if you can lie down with your baby and snuggle that is probably better than trying to run around like a crazy woman doing a million things with a baby strapped to you.
You can put a very tiny baby on your back- there is an awesome website with videos- there is a carry that is called the papoose or something like that where you swaddle the baby and then use a wrap to get the baby on. I look forward to trying this in a few months.
I will look for the site.

I have been looking for information about nerve damage and childbirth- using words like bowel paralysis and constipation- but have not gotten much. I have done much reading about nerve regeneration (this was concerning my SI joint trouble and a specific treatment they use where they sever the nerves to relieve the pain) and have found that nerves can grow back within 1 week sometimes but that it can take up to a year- so if what you are dealing with is injured nerves you may need to start thinking of this as a whole body deal.
Try eating foods that cut down inflammation- pineapple, ginger, papya- and avoid inflammatory foods.
Also there are many studies that suggest visualization of the healing process each day speed healing so a quick look into nerve regeneration processes may help too.
Acupuncture may help- as well as chiropractic. I know that when I researched Nauli I read that it can be helpful for many bowel disorders.
I also suggest doing 20 minutes of vigorous walking a day- and drinking a nice warm drink at bed time-
I don't know how you are splinting- or how comfortable you are giving yourself internal exams-
but here it is anyway...If you insert your thumb and feel along the back wall of the vagina you should be able to feel the stool in there- and if you can feel it you may be able to massage it out easily.
This will be over before you know it- It is so challenging when you are in the middle of it and it seems like time passes so slowly- you are going to find out how to work with this.

oh honeydew, definately get your hopes p! the fact that you are seeing any improvement at 4 weeks is, i think, fabulous! i know i got worse for the first two months, then started getting better--and every little improvement really helps! glad to hear the constipation is a tad batter. sounds like it's definately on the right track.

babywearing...i pretty much only worse my baby for the first 6 months (and then half carried until a year when he decided he no longer like it) unless i was doing a long trip out--then either i used a stroller, or DH carried him. i did feel bulgier after a while, but that got less as i got stronger. but i agree--a few hours is a lot. try to break it up with lying down time. i also had a must be in your arms while you stand up all the time baby, but we adapted. he calmed down, i lay down whenever i good (bring on the puzzles, lego, books, drawing, and movies--anything you can do laying down. baby would lie over me with me on my side, or feed lying down whilst i played (sort of...). just meant i had a break...

also, is there anyone who can help? i had a few friends who dropped off the odd meal or did a load of dishes whilst i lay down, and my family pitched it to get someone to clean the place 1x a week for a few weeks, just so i could rest when i was at my worst... little bits, but they made a difference.

hang in there...and keep that optimism!

do keep your hopes up! if you're already seeing some improvement,then you have all the reason in the world to be optimistic.
and remember that if you do have a setback at some point, that its normal to go through ups and downs with prolapse. its very much a 'two steps forward, one step back' type of thing. especially as your body finds its way back to a non-pg state.

Hi Honeydew

Have a look at www.tipna.org. It is a website about pudendal nerve entrapment. PNE happens in all vaginal virths. It is the reason why there are a few days of lack of bladder control and constipation, straight after birth. It is caused by distension of the perineum during second stage. This stretches the pudendal nerve and squashes and irritates it for a few days. It usually gets better in a few days but I guess it is feasible that it could suffer for weeks. Wholewoman posture will take downward pressure off your perineum, allowing it to rise up again, and may make this nerve less stressed(if that is the cause of your lazy bowel). Sounds like it is starting to improve slightly. Hope the improvement continues.

Cheers

Louise