Pelvic Health

Oh Nancy...that IS good news. This is certainly the most common kind of prolapse and also the type that seems to respond most readily to the postural work. Rejoice that you have "Nature's Pessary" working in your favor!

Let's hope to hear the collective roar of ten thousand pelvic surgeons throwing their pencils down in anger and disappointment!:D

Nancy, that is wonderful news! Did your prolapse improve or do you think the first gyno misdiagnosed (or worse, tried to make it seem worse than it was to push surgery on you)?
btw, how do they grade the degree of prolapse?

Can I jump in here for a minute? :-) There are two staging systems, the common one that we all refer to here and that most doctors still adhere to, and a more scientific one that the urogynecologic society is trying to encourage practitioners to use. Commonly, stage I refers to the classic

Nancy, Just wanted you to know I am celebrating with and for you!!!! There is no news like GOOD News.
Jane

Dear Nancy,

This is an interesting question and one that I wrestled with early on.

But think about it

Hi Christine, Nancy and all
I have been away from the site for a while, getting the computer fixed, and so much has happened. I'm so delighted with your news Nancy, you are so much more positive these days. I have had my first appt. with the physiotherapist and she put me in a fairly positive mood also, she tested my pelvic floor muscle power from 0 to 5, she said I am 4+ so that means that the pelvic floor exercises can help whereas for someone with 0 or 1, it would be a waste of time. I also told her about the posture and she thought it made sense and promised to check out your website and give me her opinion when I next see her in 2 weeks. The exercises she gave me were much more intense than I had been doing myself. I know Christine explained about those exercises not been terribly useful but I think improving muscle tone anywhere in the body can't do any harm. I would still continue in the posture and do Christine's exercises but I will also try to strengthen the pelvic floor mucles. She also said I should try to stop the flow of urine each day to see how long it takes to stop. I am finding after only a few days it stops quicker. It is recommended not to do that test any more than once a day. I think it shows a strengthening of the muscles around the urethra? I hope so. I went for a walk of about a mile last night and didn't feel that wanting to go feeling once during the walk. That, for me is progress. About the profiles, Nancy for some reason I can't get your profile, it is not there, or at least I don't find it going through all the Bs for BaNa? I have learned quite a lot from your postings but I just checked to "add to buddy list" and it just didn't happen?

Hi Brigid!

So glad to have you back and feeling better! About the pf exercises...it's not that I think they aren't useful, especially if we're out of shape and experiencing stress incontinence. But, as has been proven over and over again, they'll have virtually no effect whatsoever on a significant prolapse...at least the way "kegels" have been traditionally taught. There are many women who have very strong pubococcygeous muscles, yet experience prolapse.

It's really not unlike Nancy's question about shrinking the vagina. If we strenghthen the pc muscle to its max, yet do nothing to keep the bladder/uterus or bowel from pushing down onto it, what's the point? Something has to give and it will always be the pelvic floor.

However, if we create a more horizontal axis withing the pelvis, then at least the organs aren't pressing so hard against the pf muscles. Meanwhile, the spine is pulling up the levator plate and with it the pudendal nerve, leading to improved bladder function, better evacuation, less back pain, and more energy.

Exercise is great, but the overall goal should be to sculpt the body back toward its original design, which presses the organs over the pubic bone rather than pushing them against the pelvic floor.

;-)Christine

p.s. I have a feeling the "buddy list" doesn't work. In just a few weeks we'll have a whole new program that'll be much more useable.

Hi Christine
I agree with everything you say, hence I am duly keeping up the posture as diligently as possible, but I think that as well as keeping the bladder,for instance, over the pubic bone, it would do no harm at all to give a bit of strength to the muscles on the outside of the bladder hanging off the public bone, I would imagine strong muscles (as well as ligaments, which we can do nothing about) would assist the bone structure keeping everything up (I don't know if that makes sense to you, I am not as familiar with the medical names etc. as yourself). I know without the posture the kegel exercises are futile. About those pictures you mentioned, I happened on that site while browsing and I thought the pictures were shocking, in fact I closed the site and would not look at it again. I did think for a moment, "is this what is ahead for me" but only for a moment. I didn't realise that they were "staged", I'm so glad you pointed that out to us. Come to think of it, if these were true pictures because of the exposure to the outside, friction etc., there should have been bad infections there, but the tissue in all cases looked healthy. Those docs. go to some lengths to get "their pound of flesh" but not from us! The physio, I saw, said she was surprized the gyn. didn't recommend some surgery, of course, I told her he did, but I suggested physio, to the next doc. I saw on his team, who was a lady and sympathetic. Another thought struck me the other night before going to sleep, I am 57 with a few wrinkles, jowls starting to appear and a bit of a double chin, a bit of a saggy stomach, I do not want a facelife or a tummy tuck so if the other end is a bit droopy, I don't want it lifted by surgery either, I'm sure lots of you ladies feel the same. We earned every wrinkle, jowl, etc. It is part of our life story.

Ah Brigid!!! Sounds like you need "The Great Eyebrow Facelift" :-)

We had many-a-discussion about this in the early months of the forum, because I believed it so important that I included it in the posture instructions!

It really is nothing less than magical and will lift your entire face over several months.

As often as you can think about it (you must keep the posture for this to work!), raise the OUTSIDES of your eyebrows and relax the rest of your face. Over time this will lift your jowls, reduce the wrinkles around your mouth and eyes, and reshape under your chin.

I also believe this makes us more aware and intelligent..one more technique toward the divine work of creating ourselves.

Christine
I did try that eyebrow lift but my whole eyebrow goes up and not just the outside, I will persevere and hopefully everything will go north instead of south! It seems to work for you, you look so well in your pictures (modelling your clothes). I am not too unhappy with my face actually, (well, maybe the start of the jowls), I have good skin for my age and haven't many wrinkles. I eat healthy foods, except for the sweet tooth which is improving. I do not understand some of your American foods, we haven't got some of them here - your ingredients for salad dressings for instance, I eat salad without dressing except some coleslaw (carrot and onion chopped in mayo) I know I'm in the wrong place to be talking about food but I think your body reflects what you put in to it. Incidently, I discovered Vitamin E oil is so good for vaginal dryness, a herbalist friend suggested it to me instead of KY jelly and I found it made everything feel very comfortable down there, so I pop a little in every morning. I feel it may also improve the skin inside perhaps when Nancy suggested a cream, maybe Vit E oil would do the job of internal skin improvement, it can't do any harm. I will have to find a way to get your book, I had a major problem with a Payment Company in the US which makes me afraid to give may credit card details. They took money from my account without my instruction and then I found I couldn't access their site to pay for goods so now I am wary. I usually get things from the UK with a sterling draught, I don't know if that would work for the US. Otherwise if I could order by phone, maybe I could give my details over the phone? What do you think?

You won

I think the registration function works okay, and maybe the buddylist does too...it's just that several women have added me to their buddy list and then nothing else happened - I'm not sure what else is supposed to happen. I used to have an AOL account, and buddy names would pop up when they were online, so you could send an IM. Nancy...can you find your profile? I'm wondering if maybe you registered under a different user name than we're familiar with, or maybe you forgot to push the submit button. At this point, you might as well wait for the new system.

Hi Christine
I found a site in the UK that has the book, (nothing in Ireland), I will try to get it from them. It looks like a UK version of a US site and the book would come from the US. I wonder if US videos work in Ireland, I remember friends bringing US videos from the US years ago and they didn't work on Irish Video players, perhaps it's different now? I would love to have the video or DVD if I thought it would work over here.
Nancy, the Vitamin I mentioned is E not A. The exercises are sitting, pull everything up from the back end and then the front as hard as you can and hold it for a count of 6 "elephants", rest in between each tightening for two deep breaths, then squeeze again for 6 elephants, do about up to ten of those, three times a day for the first week and the second week do them standing. She said for me to do them lying down is too easy. I don't know if the length of time holding is suitable for everyone, the physio first tested my muscle power before giving them to me to do. She said I would be working towards holding eventually for 8 elephants (1 elephants, 2 elephants, that's the way you count). I know when I did Kegel exercises before I only held for a count of 4 (no elephants), so this is really hard and by the tenth, I'm exhausted.

Here's a version of that from the video you might find useful. Sit on the floor with your spine straight (shoulders down), legs stretched out in front, and your arms at your sides with palms on the floor. If you can't straighten your legs all the way, slowly work day-to-day on stretching them until your knees can touch the floor, as this stretches the hamstrings at the back of the thighs, which in turn allows your tailbone its full range of motion.

Without leaning your torso forward, roll onto the very front of your perineum and push your pubic bone forcefully toward the floor. Do the same counting as with "elephants." You'll feel a definite lifting of the pelvic floor as you push your bladder up and forward.:-)

Good going, Nancy! If and when you do include meat in your diet you may find that it slows you right down. It sits like a lump of lead in your gut slowing digestion and movement through the intestines. If you want some new recipes, just do a search for vegetarian or vegan recipes and you can pick up some good starters. You can add black beans to your salads or use them in other ways. Very versatile and cheap. If you buy dry beans, soak them overnight then rinse until the water runs clear and put them in a crock pot on high for three hours. Put a strip of Kombu and two or so bay leaves plus a clove of garlic. Now you will have your own stash of beans to add to whatever you are making to eat. Don't forget the watery hummus for a salad dressing. See how easy it is? This should help you until you get Christine's book. :)

Christine
Thanks for that exercise, I printed it out to add it to the others you gave me to do.
Nancy
I'm sorry you don't understand my explanation of the exercises, they are just pulling up the pelvic floor tightly for about 15 seconds at a time, rest and pull up again for about 10 times. I am not the best at explaining, I know. I'm sure Christine's exercise is clear and a better one to do. Well done on the fruit diet. I think I will start that this week, as well as feeling better, I could loose a bit of weight. I did a health course once that recommended, just like Mare said, leaving the meat, and eating more types of beans, also leave out the dairy products as much as possible is much healthier. I remember the co-ordinator of the course telling us "meat putrifies in the stomach". I thought that sounded terrible, I have to say I am not a lover of meat, just a small portion, I prefer my vegetables and like most Irish people, I love my "spuds" (potatoes to you). I try to eat more brown rice and bread also instead of white.

Kombu is a sea vegetable which you can purchase at your health food store. Very cheap. It helps break down the starches (gas producing) in the beans so your body can handle them easier. Move forward slowly with your diet reform or you will want to trash it before you see all the benefits. Now that I am off dairy I feel like I have finally settled down digestive wise. I discarded meat and its products 12 years ago. Half and half and yogurt were the remnants. Stay with your yogurt for now, look how long it took me to release the dairy. Just read the labels. You might want to stay away most low fat yogurts as they usully contain aspartame, sucralose and other artificial sugars which are exicitotoxins and these substances create disturbances with your brain cells. Keep up the good work! :)

I find that when I consume alot of dairy products I have that low dragging feeling from the prolapse. If I cut out the milk it goes away in a day or so. I'm not sure if this is coincidental or all in my mind, but I'm keeping an eye on this.
as far as smoothies go...I like vanilla soy or rice milk with frozen bananas or strawberries (also frozen). My sister adds blackstrap molasses, but that is too strong a flavor for me.

Granolamom, I hear what you are saying about dairy. It tends to knock me out when I eat yogurt/half and half besides leaving me feeling bloated and queasy in the stomach. Sometimes I have such a stomachache I have to lay down until it passes. This is day 8 dairy/coffee free and I feel great. Have you read "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell? Very interesting. :)

Nancy
I agree with Mare, you have to make small changes in the diet at first, you can't change a life's habits overnight, I still have skimmed milk on my cereal, even changing a couple of things makes you feel better. I think the worst dairy product would be hard cheese, it is so hard on the digestion. The position for the exercise is sitting in the posture on a straightbacked chair, feet flat on the floor, she said I should do it standing when I get to the second week. I am going to do the new exercise Christine gave us also. I think with everything we are doing, something has to work, or even a combination of things. We will get there, without surgery, I feel positive!;-)

Mare, I haven't read 'the China Study'. Is that a book or article? I will look for it. And congratulations on 8 coffee free days!

It is a book that came out in January of "05. I waited in line to get it from the library, but returned it after 50 pages and purchased my own copy. Four people were on the waiting list when I returned it. It is excellent. :)