I'm so discouraged

I agree with you and disagree with the doctor. I don't know technically if a pessary encourages yeast infection, but my gut tells me if you have anything abnormal going on it's best to keep artificial stuff out of there. I think the body recognizes it as a foreign thing and gets "upset" and perhaps that changes the PH balance in there or the immunity function or something.

Condolences on the death of your mother. I can hear your stress and frustration. Seems like it is coming at you from all angles, it is difficult to deal with daily life when your "bottom" area feels uncomfortable. Hopefully things will settle down and better times are ahead.

My condolences on your mom passing. I have been through that myself, an know how stressful it can be. Stress is the worst, for all your body systems, so whatever you can do to combat that will help. Prayer, exercise, talking with friends, having a good cry, meditation, hot bath, acupuncture, a glass of wine, massage. There are so many things you can do to get those stress levels down, and you should be doing something for yourself, EVERY DAY! I have also battled thyroid issues for many years, and from very hard experiences I have learned that it can wreak absolute havoc with your digestive system. Tell me a little more about your thyroid problems, and I may be able to give you some advice about that. In the meantime, lots of fruit and veggies, plenty of water, & magnesium is helpful for the constipation. A little fish oil & ground flax never hurt either. Hang in there!

i would say, before you wear the pessary again, make sure you clean clean clean it.
can you boil them (don't try unless you know it won't melt!). otherwise maybe a soak in tea tree oil and water? and then just wash it really well so it doesn't irritate you.

yeast takes over with stress, and is hard to get it to go away. i get chronic yeast and i know how horrible it is.
things i have found help are:
lots of acidophilis
biotin pills
garlic pessary
when i feel like one might come on, i soak a tampon in 1pt cider vin, 3 pt water and put it in for a few hours and keep repeating. also i bathe in a shallow bath with a cup of cider vinegar. it can help to get the PH in the right direction again.
also there are lots of herbs...

and, when you have it, cut out ALL sugar, most fruit, yeast, and eat lots of garlic

there are lots of other self help tricks for yeast, but once it really takes hold all i can do is the full on doctors' treatment.
now my thing is to try to keep them at bay!!!

but it definately makes everything feel so much worse...
my huge sympathies for this, and everything you are dealing with.

Vinegar is absolutely the cure for nail fungus, except I found that soaking was not necessary; just swipe the root of the nail once a day with a Q-Tip dipped in white vinegar - straight, not diluted. Takes about 2 seconds. New, fungus-free nail grows out, the old nail eventually grows out and gone, but I was very careful to sterilize my clippers in alcohol after I clipped the fungus part of the nail before I used them on clean nails. It has never returned. I'm pretty furious at doctors for prescribing that oral tablet that can damage your liver and does not work half as well as vinegar.

I'm not sure I'd soak the pessary in vinegar; I tend to think the soap and water well rinsed would be sufficient. This last pessary I got, the doctor was kind enough to give me the instruction booklet that came with it... it was labeled "for the health care professional"... I think they assume the patient is always a little old lady who gets it inserted by the doctor and never removed except by the doctor.... another thing that annoys me is they don't give you a case to put it in, I guess for the same reason.... but anyway, she gave the pamphlet to me and it indeed says just to wash it with soap and water.

I agree with your schedule about the pessary, not wearing it all the time. I wear mine only a small percentage of time; I usually don't need it. It's kind of a pain if you're sexually active, to have to remove it at a romantic moment, but I also just think it is not natural to have some man-made object stuck up there all the time. I feel like my vagina needs to "breathe"... ha ha.... and most of the time like some of the rest of you have said, I can make things "go back up" just by positioning.

Hi,
You sure have a lot going on in your life - I hear you! One thing I do for my susceptibility to yeast infections is to take probiotics and acidophilus. I feel that this has really helped me. I take it every day. I'm interested if anyone else feels relief from this. The other thing is to cut down on sugar. The Thyroid imbalance can really put you through you through an emotional loop. The yeast really makes everything feel worse and that is something that will go away with treatment. Take care.

Any kind of soap that's in the soap dish. Not "soft soap" though, but bar soap. Probably Ivory is best, as it is plain soap without additives, but since I rinse it all off very well anyway, I don't think it matters.

The instructions didn't specify what kind of soap, and had illustrations and instructions about how to insert it (into the "patient"). They also talked about which pessary was good for which condition.

I don't want to tell you to go contrary to your doctor, but I would just wear it as much or as little as you want, letting your own feelings be the guide. That's what I do. I truly don't think the doctors, unless they have prolapse themselves, really know what they're doing.

Is the pessary latex or silicone?

Dear Chattylady,

Oh my...sounds like you need a friend. The very first thing I would suggest, if you do not already belong to one, is to find a spiritual group that resonates with you. From my own perspective, it would be good if you could find a group that “sits” in meditation. In this way you will create the possibility of relationship, friendship, inspiration, spiritual progress, and a strong spine!

I don’t want to rain on the pessary parade, but I think you may need to entertain the possibility that it might not be a viable long-term solution. I certainly do not know that, and you should keep trying until you have your own data, but I think you need a back-up plan. Yeast overgrowth is largely a result of hormonal imbalance. When our body is supported hormonally at the cellular level, these sorts of imbalances are resisted. The issue is often one of lowering luteinizing hormone levels and increasing progesterone. Herbs that are thought to lower LH are red clover, chaparral, black cohosh, bugleweed, hops and lavender.

Herbs that are rumored to increase progesterone are sarsaparilla, true unicorn root, blue cohosh, fenugreek, beth root, yucca and mistletoe. I have no working knowledge of most of these herbs, as I’m just trying to figure this out for myself. And, of course, many women find “natural” progesterone cream very helpful. I have never seen a wild yam and am pretty certain soybeans are the starter substance for this stuff.

If you will send me your address I will send you a copy of the new dvd. I do not know this for sure, Chattylady, but it is my sense that post-hysterectomy women need this work at least as much as the rest of us. I think you said you read the book, so you probably have a sense for how the organs are positioned in the pelvis. The uterus is the center - like the mast of a ship - of the whole deal. The uterus is constantly being pulled toward the front and without it the pelvis has lost its most important and stabilizing structure. However, the pelvis does have something else....the guts. The intestines are carried toward the front normally, and with hysterectomy they are all that is left to tilt the pelvic interior toward the front and away from the pelvic outlet at the back of the body. The concept is really as simple as balancing scales. If we tip the scales toward the back, we increase our risk of prolapse. If we tip them toward the front, we reduce that risk. The dvd contains the posture, sitting exercises aimed restoring this original design, and the firebreathing, all of which I think could be very helpful to you.

The last thing I would suggest is a good support garment. The V2 supporter (google it) is the best on the market at this time. This combination of the posture, breath, exercises, herbs, good balm, and external support garment will likely be the best you will have to live well with your condition.

Yes, it is sad. But sadness is okay. Take as long as you need to experience this bittersweet emotion. And then get busy. Multiply your sadness by tens of millions and that is the cloud of despair taking the place of healthy, active women everywhere. Our entire civilization is built upon values that the feminine sensibility would never have chosen. Look around and pick someplace to make a difference.

Wishing you well,

Christine

Hi there - I read your distress and can tell you from my experience only that a
pessary is a blessing. No it does not cause a yeast infection. Perhaps like you
said yours was brought on by stress and the otc you used didn't completely get
rid of it. I've had one yeast infection 10 years ago and I believed then that it
was brought on my immense stress.

I have a cystocele (fallen bladder) as well as a rectocele (I had a partial hysterectomy
years ago. Yesterday I found out that I had a tear in my anal area (fissure) brought
on by hard stool which was brought on by not drinking 8 - 8 oz glasses of water a day
and standing too much. It is much better today I am happy to say.

But to let you know your pecessary (if it feels right inside your vaginal area) is truly
a godsend. I've worn mine for over 2 years now (take it out and clean in once every
week or so - but the doctor said doesn't need to be cleaned but every 3 months and she
even said she would be glad to do that. It is made of silicone - and your body will
not regect it- fluids may accummulate on it - but those are natural body fluids.

Have you ever tried Valerian - it is an herb which would help you relax - my husband
uses it from time to time and swears by it.

Just try not to be afraid of your rectocele - do your best to keep a high fiber diet,
drink lots of water, and eat several small meals a day - take it one day at a time and
breathe - breathe - in and out - and do whatever you can to just relax and get your
mind of your lower half. You really will be ok - you sound like a very kind and caring
person - now's the time to do the same for yourself and you did your mother.

Thanks for sharing!

Dear friends, Please don't "soak" your pessary in anything. All you need to do is take
it out every 2 weeks or months - my doctor says 3 months to leave it in is fine. As you
said sometimes you do have to remove it during a bowel movement - but just rinse it off
with warm water and tiny bit of mild liquid soap - just tiny bit - and put it back in
place. Try not to remove it too often and if you have irritated your vaginal area - take
a moist wipe and swipe it across some vaseline and lightly wipe the irritated area with
that - and even your anal area - that will soothe the irritated tissue. I leave my
pessary in 24/7 and never ever ever leave it out. My bladder had fallen through my
vagina and was hanging out when I went to the doctor and was diagnosed. She then also
diagnosed the rectocele. I did get 3 opinions - and even at one time went to a physical
therapist who taught me Kegel exercises. For a fallen out bladder - kegels are worthless - they are only good for bladders that drip. Surgery was also an option; but
my doctor thought the pessary was worth the try. It was Jan 4, 2007 that she inserted it
and I felt like throwing a party. I am so thankful to be able to afford it and wear it!

Thanks for sharing and let us hear from you. I sure appreciate everyone's sharing.

Thanks so much for your optimistic post, Hangin’. I hope our long-time member, Flora, responds with her experience, as she has worn a pessary for several years. Gosh...three months seems like such a long time, esp. in post-menopausal women. It’s the back vaginal wall that takes the brunt of pessary pressure - the last time I wore mine (a long time ago) I had to dig it out from where it was buried in the back wall. If you google “pessary erosion” you’ll see many accounts and they’re all about the back wall.

Is there a particular reason you don’t like to take it out at night? And if you could help us understand...when you say “partial hysterectomy” I’m assuming you still have your cervix. Can you feel your cervix and if so how far into the pelvic cavity does it sit? Does it change position much or stay put? (curious minds want to know :)

I agree that pessaries are a blessing for post-hysterectomy women who can retain them. Thanks again for sharing your experience and your hope.

Christine

Dear Chattylady,

Somehow when I initially responded to you I had missed that you recently lost your mum. I’m so sorry! I don’t always get to read an entire thread (carefully!) and was actually responding to your last post -last post before today.

I did just read through it all and feel Anne expressed my sentiments beautifully.

Sincerely,

Christine

Hi Christine and everyone,
I got my first pessary in November of 2002. I've had three different pessaries.
I go to see the doctor every 3 to 6 months to have everything checked out. Although this last time I waited for over a year to go to the doctor (that was last November),
and everything was still fine. Just about time for another visit.

I take my pessary out and clean it at least once a week and leave it out over night.
It all depends on what I am doing how often I wear it. If I'm going to be on my feet
a lot I wear it oftener.

I clean my pessary with a very mild diluted liquid soap and rinse it well.

I 've had 3 gynecologist the first one just rinsed it with warm water, the second one said she used a very well diluted anti bacterial soap and rinsed it well, the one I have now just rinses it with warm water. I think it depends on how you feel about it. I like to use a bit of soap.
Sorry to hear about your mother Chatty Lady.

Regards to all.

Flora.

There have been studies that show washing your hands under plain warm water removes bacteria as effectively as washing them with soap. So perhaps the soap is technically not necessary, however, I am a believer in following manufacturer's recommendations. Their materials engineers and lab technicians have tested the product and have some basis for their recommendation (although often "liability" factors into it to an unnecessary degree). I don't understand the fear of "soap buildup" if you rinse it very well, but I suppose invisible layers could form over time. Personally, if I drop the thing on the floor or something, I would be squeamish NOT to use a lot of soap.

In any case, we must remember that sterilizing what we put into our vagina is not necessary; it is not technically the interior of our body. It is not "within" our skin fortress against foreign microorganisms, it is considered "outside" - or at least the garage, (as is our entire alimentary canal). That is why a penis can be in there and not cause us deadly infection. That is why any leak from our intestine into our abdominal interior is so lethal.... it's a conduit from the deadly outside to the sealed interior. The vagina is not the sealed interior, so we don't need to be obsessive-compulsively clean about what we put in there, just reasonably clean.

I agree that inserting and removing the pessary is a source of irritation and should be done as infrequently as possible. At the same time I agree that it's good to remove it often to allow the cervix to "breathe", or really, to allow secretions to discharge normally. I think for secretions to collect and "age" behind the pessary while not necessarily an infection risk, could potentially cause microorganisms to overgrow. While this is not necessarily a direct threat to your "interior", as we all know, overgrowth of stuff there CAN cause problems such as yeast infections, and even (in the case of tampons) toxic shock (where they theorized an overly dry tampon creates microabrasions in the vaginal wall allowing bacteria the entrance to the bloodstream). In any case, as far as I know the pessary does not increase TSS risk, but certainly might imbalance your PH so that yeast or something could flourish. That's my theory, anyway, and why I won't wear mine 100% of the time. But then that has to be balanced against the irritation of inserting and removing it.

To remove it 2 or 3 times a day to allow for bowel movements seems excessive, like it could be bothersome for your introitus. For me, sometimes I can have bowel movements without removing it, sometimes I have to hold it in place with a finger or two. Once in a while it seems the back ring pressing on the rectum "blocks" a stool and I must remove it. Each individual is different, there must be an infinite way our bodies are put together, the size of the rectocele, the consistency of stool, the size of the introitus, whether or not we also have a cystocele, the tendency to become irritated and so on and so forth, the comfort of wearing the pessary vs not, the different types of pessaries, there must a million variables that make it necessary for each of us to work out our own unique solution. So you may need to just give it time, working with your own unique variables to figure out what routine works best for you.

There is also the issue of additional surgeries further changing the shape of the vagina so it becomes more difficult to retain a pessary and why I thought it might not be a perfect solution for Chattylady. Bladder neck suspensions pull the front wall forward, allowing everything in the back “compartment” to also move forward. This makes it much more difficult to keep a pessary in with large increases in intraabdominal pressure.

I don't know what I would do if I had to work outside the home, I agree with you, I LOVE being more or less free to do chores vs lie down and rest on my own time. I'm glad you're feeling like you're getting support here. I have a feeling things will look up for you soon; high stress events have a way of making any physical discomforts much worse. When your life gets more on track you should feel less anxious and bothered by the POP.

I know when I am not feeling well and I have diarrhea - and have to go more than once a day I notice my prolapse is not as happy. I know going to the bathroom allows the body to "exercise" that function- but I think you can get way too much of a good thing. I know when I go a day or two with out going at all my prolapse is most happy. I don't consider this constipation by the way= just variation in metabolism or change in how much I eat or something like that-
So perhaps for you it will be finding that happy medium- and staying with it-
by the way- I figure life long constipation is a sign of allergy to a food- many people have trouble with wheat- gluten- dairy- etc that they just never thought to notice before.