rectocele issue

Oh Kiki,

this is my problem EXACTLY! if i could overcome this, my life would be PERFECT! chuckle, chuckle :) seriously, i am dealing with this myself, almost every day. the other day, i had a bm in the morning that moved right out, and nothing for the rest of the day. i thought i'd died and gone to heaven! amazing the things people take for granted isn't it? i am exercising, doing the posture, eating wonderfully. it's silly how well i take care of myself, but still... can't get it all out. If someone can find us a solution to this, i will write them into my will!

Before my third child I was totally unaware of how long stool stayed in the last part of my colon- I have actually had the thought that OMG at my gyn apts I cold have had a full colon and not known it but THEY knew- kinda weirded me out for awhile.
Anyway now I am aware and can actually feel it move into that space and I can even feel when it causes the intestine to bulge into the vagina- sometimes I even feel a stretching and burning feeling. When this happens I get gravity off my pelvic door and do some downward dog - for some reason if I do this for a few minutes and then move into childs pose- then I am good to go.
If that doesn't work I sometimes try to push the bulge flush for a few minutes and then get up and move on and see what happens- sometimes I know the need is there but colon does not know to contract- somehow it isn't getting the signal. As the day goes on the bulge gets bigger and that seems to complicate things-
I think this may be why the morning works so well for many rectocele suffers.

If time of day is a problem for you here are some things to consider. Obviously you would prefer the stool to come down and occupy the rectum/colon right before you wake up in the morning- Then soon after waking you would like to have a BM- try to time your eating, drinking, and exercising. The body is most stimulated to go about 30 minutes after eating. So wake up- drink 2 or 3 8 ounce glasses of water. Do some Nauli-and downward dog- then eat a good breakfast- think biggest meal of the day here- so a few eggs- an orange or two- some spinach or other leafy green- maybe a side of beans- hopefully 30 minutes later you will feel like going to the bathroom. Try eating every 3 hours or so all day- small meals- and finish the day with a small-high protein meal 3 or 4 hours before you go to bed. Before you go to bed take a magnesium supplement or have a warm glass of tea.
One thing I have noticed is that certain types of stool actually cause my rectocele to disappear. When this happens I almost don't want to go- The stool is so well formed and just the right density that is pulls the intestine all the way out of the vagina-

So just curious...what is the problem with sex? are you worried that the sh*t won't stay in? Or does it hurt to have penetration with a full colon?

Hi Kiki,
I have exactly the same problem. I 'go' every morning with no problem (take Colace every night and Metamucil), but as soon as I eat lunch, I get stools that move down and all afternoon and evening it feels like I have to go, but if I try, nothing happens. My body will NOT have a bowel movement at any time of the day except the morning. I hate the feeling, especially since I work full time and it's terrible to feel that way at work.

The only way I can prevent it from happening is not to eat at all between breakfast and dinner. Maybe a few tiny bites here and there duing the day, but I can't eat a normal sized lunch. Even if I eat an apple, it happens. I really don't know what to do either. Hopefully someone else will have some ideas.

Goldfinch

I thought I was the only one with this problem. I can ONLY go in the morning about an hour after I get up. I have something to drink and a small snack. Then I stand around and wait. It doesn't matter how full my colon feels later in the day(and I can always feel that there is stool in there) I cannot go again until the next morning. I think it may be psychological in my case. I go in the morning when it is calm and the kids are still in bed. My other issue is that I cannot go anywhere but at my house. This makes travel overnight very difficult. I have gone 7-10 days without going because I was staying with relatives. I worry about travel now that I have such a bad rectocele. However, I am thrilled that I can go once a day. I never used to be able to. That's how I got into this mess in the first place(and a few other reasons).

Luckily, i very rarely get it these days. For me it is totally connected to food and not so good posture (lots of concentrated typing with not much attention to posture).
When it happens, I just do firebreathing or downward-dog and it works 80% of the time.

Funnily, just like in your case, it is hardly connected to the size of the bulge. Although I rarely check it these days there does not seem to be a connection between rectocele size and feeling (unlike with cystocele).

When I have that heavy feeling I just don't feel like having sex. Just like I don't feel like having sex after a large meal, lol!

Reka

while sitting on the toilet, reach up your vagina with your thumb or middle finger as far as you can reach and press down on the back wall of the vagina. chances are, is that "heavy feeling" is a small piece of stool stuck in there and you can help move it down with your finger. this usually works.

I've had a cystocele and rectocele for 2 years now and wear a pecessary which has
worked out great - but a couple of times if my stool has been too compact I've had
some bright red bleeding which has scared me to death. I've had one hemmorroid and
thought perhaps this had aggravated it - but has anyone out there ever had this
problem with bright red bleeding? Once I've finished the bowel movement the
bleeding has stopped. This has happened two days in a row now which has caused this
current anxiety. Let me hear from you! Thanks

This is my issue too. Exactly like you described. And for me it is a problem because I have a fissure that I got after the birth of my daughter and I am having a hard time healing it because the stool stays in there too long and isn't soft enough the next morning.

I think it is funny that Alemama described the feeling that sometimes the stool is the perfect density. I thought I was the only one with that feeling. Sometimes I don't want to go because I can't even feel the rectocele.

I have been told that you should have a bowel movement three times a day for the three meals that you eat and if that was so I would always feel comfortable but for some reason like so many of you describe I can only go first thing in the morning.

There has to be a solution out there!

Wow, I too have that same problem. I dread traveling - any change in my schedule or sleeping someplace else and my system just shuts down. I remember being 13 years old and going to stay with my older sister after she had her first baby. I didn't 'go' for the entire week that I was there!

Today I just had 1 1/2 cups of chicken noodle soup for lunch, and I didn't feel like I had to go at all this afternoon. What a relief!

Has anybody tried this?

http://www.amoils.com/anal-fissures.html

Thank you for reminding me about Christine's suggestion for seaweed.

Hi, Rectocele newbie here. I'm 55, had two kids and have an of/on relationship with my prolapse. I've just been reading the magical messages of comnfort on the blog about coming to terms with your situation and living well. I was also pretty freaked by the Replens warning. I tend to use Also Vera gel sometimes. What do others use if not Replens? Didn't realise until finding you all here that rectocele has good/bad days. In other words, today's bad day may improve. So glad to have found you. So much better not to be doing to alone. Could anyone recommend which of Christines books/vidoes to start with? Many thanks. Sally

Kiki where did you get neem oil? What makes it different from other oils? Just wondering because the sesame oil I have is anti fungal, anti bacterial, anti inflamatory etc. What about Christine's balms then? I wonder if they would work. I tried to purchase the aloe vera that you recommended several months back but the shipping was going to be outrageous.

Hi Newbie

To get the best understanding of POP I would recommend Saving the Whole Woman edition 2. It has a blue cover. You can probably pick up the first edition (yellow cover) very cheaply but the second edition is much clearer, more comprehensive and has extras like the ballet workout and the firebreathing instructions, as well as better illustrations.

I haven't seen the new DVD yet, but I think it will be really useful. so looking forward to its arrival in my letterbox.

I would also suggest trying the Wholewoman balms. I use Bliss Balm when I am feeling a bit dry (I'm 55 too), and vulva balm if my vulva gets irritated, and peri balm if I am feeling a bit tender further back. I like to keep all three on hand. They might sound expensive but you only have to use a tiny bit. I have tried Replens but couldn't really work out the timing. I know I can use Bliss Balm ad lib and it works straight away, so why bother with Replens which has stuff in it that could be said to be harmful, it's so expensive and the applicators we get in Australia are so wasteful?

Cheers

Louise

Hi All

I would like to add that it is important to stay well-hydrated 24/7 so your body doesn't try and reabsorb too much water out of lower bowel contents while you sleep. I find that dehydration is more of a problem in cool weather than hot, because, unless you have the time and resources to sit around warm fires sipping warm cocoa all day, I find that I am not thirsty, so I don't drink enough (and water straight out of the tap is sooooo cold!!)

My other comment is that there is quite a complicated mechanism involved in how the bowel decides whether or not to empty. There are different types of sensors in different parts. Maybe a kink in the pipe disturbs the equalisation of pressure or something like that. Maybe the kink prevents the colon sending it all back up again when it is apparent that evacuation is not going to happen right now.

My main tip would be to use the toilet immediately you get that fullness sensation. That's when you have the best chance of a good empty out. If it all doesn't come out, leaving you feeling uncomfortable, don't worry about it, your bowel will soon enough give you another message.

I am also wondering if it just feels like a full rectum, and that your brain is producing the sensation of fullness when the rectum is not full, cos something is pressing the rectum and the rectum misinterprets the pressure. Seeing through any brain trickery is not easy. All we really want to do is do the stuff we want to do, knowing that we are not going to s*** ourselves unexpectedly, or end up with a bowel full of boulders that need to be passed somehow. Either way, worry is the number one enemy.

I wonder if anybody has ever died of constipation?

Cheers

Louise

I just joined and have a bad rectocele. I use a hot water enema to go more or when I feel that I need another BM due to where the stool is left or because comes down to later in the day and you feel it and can't go. I don't think hot water hurts you any and you feel the need to go quite rapidly after that and it usually moves things along pretty good...least for me it does My mother told me to do that.

Please could you give technical details of how to do the enema - what do you put the hot water in? How much? How hot? Do I need to do it over the loo - for fear of instantaneous results? My mother never told me this useful stuff. It sounds a great idea, as I like to run and can't with a bm pending. I can be hanging around all day waiting for the action. Also I like to go on group hikes, and the idea of nipping into the undergrowth every time I feel I just might ... and crouching behind a bush while everyone waits for me to finish WITHOUT STRAINING, is rather worrying. I'm just a bit concerned enemas might be like senna pods, which one is advised not to use regularly because one's bowels can get so used to this prompting they won't function without.

Sorry, I was trying to reply to SarahC, and I can't find out how to move this.

Alix - it is quite simple. At first I just used a well rinsed out hair dye plastic bottle, filling it with quite warm tap water. Then I'd put some towels on the bed and go lie down on my side with one leg up to fit the end of the squeeze bottle into my rectum and squeeze the water. It will take more than one fill of the bottle likely. For me 3-4x until I feel fullish and then I wait usually lying down for the BM urges in a few minutes. Easier to lie down and wait as you don't have to worry about any water releasing. Once I get a couple of urges, I quickly head to the toilet and let it flow. Sometimes after the first rush if you need to you can help the stool along, but it works pretty much every time and afterwards you fell comfortable when sitting and doing regular activities. It just takes time to do all this. Alas, having a BM was so much easier when I was younger. Now I have to think about BMs and how important it is to go everyday, or else the pain is too great when I get any type of constipation or full distended colon. For me the initial size of the stool head gets too large to pass through my rectum and it rips me real badly and is so painful. At those times too the urge itself becomes so painfull when you're right there ready to go and nothing comes out. I still need to find help with that. Often I have to work at going for 2-3 minutes before my rectum expands to take my stool head.

Since first using the dye type plastic bottle, I've gone to the drug store and purchased a proper enema kit. Sort of like a hot water bottle, smaller and has a long hose attachment. This method can then be used in the shower. Just fill the rubber container, hook up the longer hose and rectum attachment and hang from the shower head. Insert end in rectum and you can feel the water flowing into your colon. That is all you have to do. When you feel full enough, stop it, wait for the urge while showering and get yourself on the toilet.

Water immediately promotes the urge for a BM as your colon recognizes it as full and the water helps to float the round poo pieces that get caught and move them. I know it makes me feel much better and I have to do this fairly often because even though I go regularly most mornings, I usually don't get fully emptied out because of my lower rectocele and with my pelvic floor extending so much to even get to evacuate, I lose the urge after the first rush of BM and the rest won't come out. I'm even wiping and getting solid poo that is basically being left as my rectum closes after my evacuation rush. I go really fast all at once when I first go.

I hope this helps you some. It is such a private thing and a bit of hassle to have to do but it does work.

Hi ladies
am a 10wk pp prolapsee with a big rectocele and am currently in the ohmygodpleasehelpme stage of endless questions to the wise WW women - apologies in advance!

My biggest concern at present is making it worse, and I'm in a panic in case i did just that this morning.
apologies for the graphic details to follow but I'm v anxious!

Usually my stools are pretty soft and pass easily with splinting each morning. But this morning I could feel when splinting that it was a bit firmer than usual (though not 'hard' as such) so I was concerned not to overstrain things. I've had some good advice on natural straining and minimising excess (thanks Christine!) so I tried a sort of half squat, but it did need a bit more exertion than usual (plus the splinting) to move it out.

My panic is that I could felt a kind of minor internal popping (near the vagina where I was splinting rather than the rectum side) as the stool moved down and out. It wasn't painful, but it was definitely a kind of popping feeling. I guess this could have been a pocket of gas or something, but I'm really panicking that it was a bit more of the tattered/baggy fascia giving way. i just gently felt the bulge (3hrs later) and the back wall does feel a bit more baggy/pillowy than it often does (though I suppose that could be coincidence and/or me being hypersensitive because of my anxiety).

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on this? If indeed it may have been the rectocele getting a bit worse as a result of a fairly gentle BM (not rock hard pellets and against the seat straining, just somewhat firmer than usual), then I wonder whether I should be using mini-enemas whenever it feels anything other than very soft. unpleasant as that still sounds to me (trying to overcome my squeamishness and vanity), I think I can get my head round it if it's going to stop me getting worse, but equally I don't want to use them unnecessarily.

sorry again for the endless questions and the graphic descriptions. I can't believe the things I'm sharing here!

yours in a bit of a tizzy

Mumtogirls London

The body is Much stronger than that, Mum...have faith. The fascia is stretched very thin, but is extremely strong and not ragged. I think you need to really feel your rectocele and also the strength of the tissues in between your vagina and rectum. Draw a tall bath and relax into it. Place your thumb into your vagina and your index finger into your rectum and explore that whole area. See how strong the walls are in between and how they move independently from one another. In this way you can pinch your fingers together and get a clear idea of the thickness of the walls. Bear down and feel how the walls move. You have all that tissue preventing your bms from popping through to the other side! This will take the mystery out of the situation and with it the fear and anxiety.

thanks for the reassurance again christine. You must get tired of panicking newbies with daft questions!

If I'm reading you right, even my weakened tissues are stronger than i've tended to think, and it would take more than what happened today to further damage them

Time for a relaxing bath is a bit of a distant dream at the mo with the two wee ones, but as soon as I do, I'll take a deep breath and have a probe...! It's a bit of a scary prospect, but I'm sure you're right that knowing what's going on down there helps you stay sane, and avoid the anxiety

many many thanks
Mumtogirls London

hello friends,
I have same problem..go in the morning and lately s have to go afternoon and before I go to bed.
I never feel like I empty completely. Most times I have to put my hand at the bottom of my baginal area and help push out the stool. does anyone else have to do this? is this bad for the anus and my hemorroids? Is this what they call "splinting." Most of my bowel movements need help getting out and it worries me. I am currently struggling with hemmorroids. My doc has called in Analpram. does anyone have other remedied that may help? I cannot do Metamucil or too much fiber as it makes my constipation worse , no matter how much water I drink.
I welcome your thoughts and suggestions
Thank you
Brick2012

Hi Brick. I think that a feeling of incomplete evacuation comes with the territory when you have rectocele. If you truly feel that things are getting stuck in a dead end, then a little gentle splinting (with a finger or thumb in the vagina pushing the bulge out of the way) might make you feel better. For me, I don't bother because I do feel like eventually everything comes out. I go to the bathroom many many times throughout my day, which I think is at least partly because I "graze" all day long, rather than eating only at mealtimes. I long ago decided (even before discovering my 'celes) that this tactic caused my digestive system less stress overall.

Do make sure that you are pooping in good posture - keep the lumbar curvature in place - lift up a little off the toilet seat and don't collapse your spine. Keeping the organs forward in their proper positions will help them function as they should. - Surviving

Thank you Surviving. I do have a bad habit of curving my back. I will on my posture.

I just posted a question about being able to do enemas with a rectocele and reading your post really answered my questions. I guess I have probably had the rectocele for a while but I didn't know. I had a hysterectomy in 2000 due to uterine prolapse. wish I knew then what I know now. Anyway, I started rebounding as part of a program and lifestyle change due to possibly cancerous thyroid nodules. I refused to have my thyroid removed on a 50/50 chance. Anyway, I think the rebounding created where I am now. But I do not have any problems with bowel movements. I hope that doesn't change in the future. I wanted to tell you that because of what is going on thyroid wise, I am doing juicing, (green juices) 2 to 3 times a day. A minimum of 64 oz a day. I also only have fruit, salad and steamed veggies at this point. Diet makes all the difference in bowel movements and the more plant based foods you eat, the easier the bm's. I just wanted to pass that along in case it may help!!

you all great, its amazing how we all can relate and share experiences and maybe helping another with advice or an experience that they didnt know about.

i have a rectocele that pulls everything down, in other words i have intussusuption and mucosal lining prolapse...i can relate to everyone with how bowels dont work, and how it gets stuck etc..
i also have to be careful with fissures that ive had since my son is 1 month old...he is now 4 yrs old, my only child and i cant imagine if i had another one what that would do to my rectum..
i have tissue rectal tissue sticking out as we speak...no matter if i eat bad or eat well, the prolapse has a mind of its own, it can treat me well, it can treat me horrible..
i have been doing WW for 3 months now and i have noticed a difference, not sure why rectal tissue is coming out even if i empty my bladder or standing up...this happened in the past then got better...
i take benefiber and epsolm salt every day to bulk up and the epsom to make this pass easy..
i took psyllium husk last week, thought i was great till the 3rd day of it the bm was too large and caused my fissure and rectum to prolapse, i had painful tissue sticking out...its the wall that separates the vagina and rectum that wont hold its place..
i also have bladder issues so i have to pee alot..i assume the rectal issues i have puts pressure on my bladder..
prayers out to all of you, i believe we all will be stress free in regards to this annoying health issue..

Hi nubianqueen. I just want to clarify something. The tissue you speak of is coming out of the rectum, correct? Because if it's coming out of the vagina (from the rectum bulging into the vaginal space), that's just an ordinary rectocele. Various parts of your post make this a little unclear. - Surviving

I'm having a rough time with my poos. It basically won't go much, then loose/diarrhea stools. I eat lots of fruits, veggies, etc. I cannot seem to get the poo firm enough to make a clean exit. I've tried almost everything I can think of. When my daughter gets a 'sore butt', I put baby goldbond powder and/or raw honey on it. It helps with the soreness.

I have read all the posts herein on rectocele. I can't find any solid answers on how one avoids getting impacted which causes the rectocele to worsen? I do the whole food fiber thing, 4 prunes, ground flax seed. I Don't eat sugar, I do drink adequate water, however if I cannot successfully have a bm in the morning and am forced to wait due to travel or other scheduling conflicts that throw off my clock I become impacted. I am hesitant to use a laxative suppository but have on occasion.

I am so weary of having to think about my bum day and night. Does anyone out there have any ideas or experiences they can share with me? I would be ever so thankful.

Are you impacted or are you just constipated? To me, being impacted implies a very hard dry stool that hasn't budged in quite a long time. Are you overdoing the fiber and bulking things up needlessly? Have you tried some gentle splinting to push in the rectocele bulge and help things along? - Surviving

Hi diamondgirl22,
Over the years I have worked out a formula which works most of the time.

If I am going somewhere I make sure I rise early enough to eat my usual breakfast and allow a bm time to come.
If it doesn't first time, I have used a type of lanolin inserted to make it easier the next time.
Sometimes there is a dryer bm and then I go again later...
Splinting just didn't work for me so I used to push the bms back up, & about 30min later it will come out with the usual urge, however I try not to do that anymore, as now they can come straight back down again...

I had a terrible time after babies with very wide and large bms, but added more fresh fruit and that really helped...
I do use now a magnesium orotate supplement twice a day to help, and if I make sure I eat enough fruit and sweet potato, or other root veg, wholemeal or rye bread, I am usually fine. I can get away with more now that the fitter I get...

I don't go overboard with water but drink to activity and weather requirements.

Gradually the WWP and toilet position has helped imensly with elimination, which I usually do in a semi - standing squat like a sumo restler.

I did used to wonder how a rectocele would straighten out to eliminate in that position, however I found a post recently by Christine which I will try to find and share the link of how the bowel straightens out to allow elimination.

WWPosture allows the organs to position themselves in the lower belly and gives them enough room to do their functions without being literally squashed, and I have found that and the exercises, and more activity as well, help me immensely...

Stress does not help, and that is why I allow extra time if going out. Sometimes my bms skip a day but usually I don't feel anything there.

Work out your diet, stress levels, organising / time factors to avoid too much stress/ rush to go to work, and work on the posture and loo positions as that is foundational.

All the best,
Aussie Soul Sister

This is a link to a post by Louiseds, about how elimination positions help,
with comments by Christine

https://wholewoman.com/forum/node/2981

Well Surviving60 I call it impacted because my gastroenterologist referred to it as such, however to tell you the truth it isn't hard and dry it is just bulky making it difficult to pass and then followed by soft stool. The bulky part seems to hang up which is why in the past I strained and obviously caused my current condition. ( I am puzzled by the fact that no DR ever told me this could become an issue for me as I aged, puzzled and disappointed actually)

I will try the splinting, thank you. This aging thing isn't for sissies!

Thanks Aussie Soul Sister...it was quite enlightening...I will try the loo poo!

Yes.....if bulk is the problem, then the solution may be as simple as getting off the extra-fiber-extra water vicious cycle altogether. As Soul Sis suggests - get your fiber from fruits and veggies, don't overtax your system with huge amounts of water, get lots of exercise, and most importantly, master WW posture on the toilet and all throughout your day. And for your doc to say you're "impacted' just shows this is not a big area of expertise for those guys! - Surviving

Yes I am with you on the expertise of my doctor! Of course this recent situation isn't the first time I have felt the Medical community has let me down.
I love all the info I am getting from the brave women posting on Whole Woman. I'm traveling for a week starting tomorrow and hopefully I can eat my way across the country via veggies and fruits! Love the Loo Poo!!!!
Thank you again....