adult whooping cough

Hi Christine

Sorry to hear that the prognosis is weeks more coughing, and that it is having such a negative effect on your bladder control. Hang in there. I am sure you will recover to your previous level of health and that your bladder will recover its previous good composure. It will just take time. It is a hard pill to swallow, but when we have a setback like this it is a reminder of the how distressing it is for a woman who experiences it for the first time.

Your body is strong and resilient. You will be fine in the end.

Cheers

Louise

have you considered this?
Honesty Christine I think one thing we as a modern society have forgotten how to do as we developed our medical system is convalesce.
Get in your bed woman! do not get out. and while you are there have someone come and nurse you. The only time you need to get out of bed is to get in a steaming hot shower. Then have someone beat your lungs- or do vigorous chest rubs. Have your dd pump milk for you- her immunity will help you get better faster.
Eat broths- warm and steamy- that someone else makes for you.
Rest and recover. Be well.

oh christine, i am so sorry to hear this. i am so sorry to hear how ill you are.
i have always been so worried about whooping cough since i got my prolapses. For adults, it's only a DTP combination, and it's a fairly new vaccine. But i may look into it hearing your story!...I know the old live Pertussin was very problematic, but i haven't looked into the killed one (assuming adult is that one--kids here are now). I'd love to hear other natural mama's views on this vacc too...?

i am hoping for a speedy recovery for you now that you know what is going on--and for your pelvis to return to its strength.

the antibiotics are only effective is making it non contagious--not in treating it. i don't know if they work later in the illness, or only at the beginning. some people do believe though that they lower the immune system, making it harder to fight it...

there are homeopathic remedies that are meant to be very effective that might help. very quick search found:

(From Cassandra Marks:)
Whooping cough: In my 21 years as a homeopath I have used Pertussin to ward off whooping cough. I usually recommend that your child takes a dose of Pertussin 30 potency, if he or she has been in contact with another child with the characteristic barking cough. The child should take another dose a week to 10 days later. I have also successfully treated a good number of cases of whooping cough with remedies such as Drosera and Coccus cacti described in my article in issue ? of the Informed Parent.

(from another site:)
Drosera: spasmodic Cough dep in the chest. Violent tickling in the larynx brings on cough. Cough impulses so violent cannot catch breath. Cough as soon as head hits pillow. Principal remedy for whooping cough.
(not sure of dosage--one person recommended a 10m, when we thought our little one had i'm sure the dosage she had me order was lower...)

so wishing you speedy recovery, and that you feel much much better

kiki

Sending healing and immunity vibes your way! I hope you are feeling well soon! I know it is hard to rest when all you want to do is go, go, go!

On the (maybe) bright side of this, doesn't going ten rounds with whooping cough now protect you against future episodes for a long time? Nature's vaccine? I hope so, for your sake. What a lousy thing to go through, but maybe you will emerge with an immunity to protect your pelvis for a good long time. Best wishes!

i just find it so hard to weigh the risks vs benefits up...
i have total faith that if my children got whooping cough they would get through it in one piece. we would be exhausted, but they would be healthier for it and fine. however, if i got it, i have the greater issues of still needing to be a mother and to work and all...and the POP issues, all things that start to make me feel like i should be vaxed. but the fear of the unknown risks weighs heavily in my mind...
how to make that decision?

i am sure Christine you will now have immunity, from what i've read at least for 10 to 15 years, hopefully forever!
and, if it helps to make you feel even better about this, apparently whooping cough helps to make the lungs much healthier in the long run.... so you will emerge with a stronger healthier set of lungs!

there is, btw, apparently still lots of childhood whooping cough--it's just that in children who are vaxed it gets diagnosed as asthma or other coughs, not whooping cough. it was found in a study a few years ago, and i raised it with a doctor when DS had a bad cough as a baby, and the doctor asked if we were vaxed. he said it was true--if we were he wouldn't go down the whooping cough route, but as we weren't he would--even though they know the vaccine wears off so quickly (and turned out just to be a bad cough...)

as a preteen I was diagnosed with childhood asthma- this happened right as I hit puberty and escalated so that I was on asthma meds for a few years-
all that ended when I got the mumps as a 14 year old.
Research that I have done since confirms what I now suspect- that having the mumps got rid of the asthma.
Some of these things we vax against actually do help us out in other ways....
and yes I had the MMR- as a baby and then again as boosters- apparently my body never acquired immunity- well I have it now!
and yes as a 14 year old my parents "made" me get the MMR again- which I think is totally stupid since I had the M and the R and the naturally acquired other M.

I don't want to hi-jack this thread but . . .

Alemama -- I find it interesting that you had asthma as a child, as I was also diagnosed and "grew out" of it all around my pubescent years. Another link in the set-up-to-POP chain of events? I had the meds and all, but not sure I really had classic asthma. What I did have was a fairly chronic cough at night that the doc had no idea what else to do with. I haven't coughed like that in 16 years, but wonder now if it had a smidge of implication in what's going on now. Hmmm . . . .

I received the vaccination after the birth of my youngest who just turned three. I can't recall how soon after the birth or if I was still breastfeeding. I know several adults who have been diagnosed over the past few years. Extended bouts of coughing are guaranteed to aggravate my prolapse and what usually follows for me is urinary leaking which otherwise isn't an issue since I went for PT after the birth of my first child. I wasn't thinking of this when I requested the vaccination I was more concerned with the kids getting sick but if I had been thinking of the prolapse it would have been an added factor in choosing the vaccination. (Yes, for those of you who are new to POP you can get to the point where POP is not foremost in your mind, just be patient.) I did not look into the ingredients. I do not recall any reactions, who knows about the long term negatives but I felt it was the right decision for us at the time.
I currently have a mild/moderate cough/cold thing going on and have been reminded of the prolapse. Christine take the advice of your WW family and care for yourself. Your crew can get by without you on the short term or they will learn how much more difficult it is to not have you up and about for a longer duration.

You can add me to that list. Chronic post-viral coughing from mid primary school years, maybe before. I had tonsils removed at about age 6 because I got so sick from respiratory viruses. Didn't really make any difference that I could see. Finally diagnosed as asthma (well, it responded to the asthma meds, anyway) mid-40's. Finally on full preventer and reliever meds for three(?) years before learning Buteyko and kicking the asthma meds (Ironically, at the time I was trying to get rid of the asthma so I could be in good shape to have a hysterectomy and bladder repair, which is how I ended up here!). Now with full blown POPs behaving well, uterus intact, no surgery, breathing easier than I have ever in my life. Weird, eh? Great, eh?

Chronic coughing is all about massive amounts of intraabdominal forces being resolved any way they can for weeks on end. In a woman with 'fitness industry standard' style posture, how could it not be a major predisposing factor?

And many cough medicines make you constipated ...

Cheers

L

Good grief, I remember that inconsolable tickle from my chronic cough period . . . I'm sure you've tried everything, and I know your cough has a different cause then mine, but pure cherry juice did a lot for me to quiet that tickle. I don't know why! It was a remedy from my grandmother . . .

oh, christine, I'm sorry to hear you're so sick!
I'm sure you will pull through this, but do take good care of yourself and rest now when you need it. a stitch in time....
a few of my friends have had the vax, the peds around here have been putting the fear of pertussis in everybody. I honestly did not realize it was so difficult a disease in adults.
doesn't make any sense to me that you can't get just the "P" part of the vax.
in any case, I hope you feel better soon.
sending healing vibes your way

Hi Christine,

I am so sorry that you are still feeling so bad. Maybe, by the time you read this, God willing, you'll be feeling a lot better.

When I am sick, and especially when I have a cough, I find sucking on Sugar Free Ricola Cough Suppressant Throat Drops to be a God send. They really help me to control a cough and I get serious bronchitis!! Might want to give it a try.

Rest, rest, rest, as has been said soo many times here. That's what you need now. It will pay off in the end.

Love and healing vibes (and, of course, prayers) sent your way!

~Mae

Hi Christine

Thanks for elaborating on the dynamics of chronic coughing.

Would you and other coughing women try a little trial for me please?

*One* of the stages in learning Buteyko breathing is to learn to breath less. You learn to breathe very shallow(ly), breathing in deeply then just breathing out a little when your body tells you that you need more oxygen. This leaves a lot of carbon dioxide in your lungs, which is OK cos CO2 is actually essential in the process of transferring oxygen from the bloodstream into the tissues themselves. It also puffs out your chest and maintains your lumbar curve.

We actually need very little oxygen, much less than most of us breathe. If you breathe more slowly and breathe more shallow(ly) you will cut down the amount of cold air going down your irritable throat. This means your throat will be irritated less, so you are less likely to have a coughing fit. This means that your throat is stirred up less often. This will reduce inflammation, or at least not exacerbate it, allowing it to recover more quickly.

In addition, *do not ever open your mouth for any reason at all*, other than to eat or drink, or actually use your voice (or clean your teeth or apply lipstick).

This means:-
No gasping (drawing a breath through your mouth) before saying something.
No gasping before saying something on the phone.
No whistling or singing while you work. Hum instead.
No puffing and panting during exercise. Make yourself breathe through the nose, or slow down.
No heated, breathy arguments/discussions.
No clearing your throat with your mouth open.
No gaping in surprise.
No clicking your tongue up against the top of your mouth, tapping out a rhythm.
When singing, breathe more often, little breaths through the nose to keep the lungs full. If you allow your lungs to empty you will have to take a deep breath in through your mouth to get enough air for the next line. Try and forsee passages where you need to hold a note or a string of notes for a long time, and fill up before you start. I have seen and heard a professional opera singer who only nose breathed right through a major role in Porgy and Bess.
No smoking either. The cheap cigars just got too expensive to buy with A$$$. I just eat expensive chocolates instead! ;-)

This means breathing through your nose all the time, deeply into the belly. This means that all your breath has to pass through your nose, with all its convolutions that are designed to warm, moisten and filter the air going down your throat and into your lungs. It is the same effect as a hot steamy shower. This is another example of the amazing design of the human body. Newborns cannot spontaneously breathe through their mouth. This is why blocked nasal passages are cleared at birth. Breathing through the mouth is learned behaviour, which *can* begin when a newborn is inverted and slapped to make it breathe (scream with pain through its mouth).

Now for the trial.

When you are by yourself, see how little you can breathe.
1 Sit in Wholewoman posture.
2 Take a deep breath through your nose, then wait until your body signals that it wants to breathe out and take another breath. This will probably be only a few seconds.
3 Then effortlessly breathe out a tiny bit, then breathe in again.
4 Keep this going for as long as you like, using your normal, comfortable timing of breathing. Don't try to hold it for longer than is comfortable. *Simply keep your lungs half or more full and just breathe in less air at every breath.
I have done it for twenty minutes at a stretch without effort, right at the beginning of learning Buteyko breathing. I was no expert. You don't have to *try* to do anything, other than only breathing out a little bit.
* If you need to let go of it all to take another breath, you have breathed in too deeply, or have held your breath for too long.
* If you start to feel light-headed or nauseous you have held on too long, or not breathed in deeply enough in the first place (you really are running out of oxygen). Stop, breathe normally for five minutes, then try again, this time filling your lungs more initially and maintaining more volume in your lungs every time your exhale.

NB You may think you cannot do this because your nose is be blocked. If this is so, you can still do it if there is a tiny air passage in only one nostril. This takes some self-discipline as there is a temptation to panic and open your mouth for more air. I think the slight feeling of controlled panic is quite good in this instance, because I think your adrenalin level rises and dilates your air passages. Your blocked nose will clear slightly in response to this controlled panic.

*This is probably why adrenalin is administered to people having a serious asthma attack*.

You may not believe this bit about breathing through a blocked nose to clear it, but it works. Try it. You might not be able to do it for very long, and it may only clear enough to allow you to stop panicking. Just take a small breath through your mouth, then shut it again if the panic gets too much, and recommence shallow breathing through your nose.

Christine, see if this cuts down on your tickle and cuts down your coughing.

This little lesson is only one part of Buteyko breathing that I learned. Don't overdo it if it has untoward effects. I am not a trained teacher. Seek out a trained teacher if you want to learn the rest of it.

NB I wouldn't recommend trying it without trained supervsion if your health is not otherwise good, especially if your heart function is compromised. Lungs, not so sure, but err on the side of caution if doing it without trained supervision.

The Buteyko technique is used to rid the body of asthma, and I have rid my body of chronic wheezing and sinus and ear blockage of several years' standing, using the Buteyko technique. My asthma specialist told me that my x-rays had permanent thickening/damage to the lining of the lungs, so my lung function was definitely compromised when I learned it. As a result of this training I now breathe deeper, exhale less, and breathe slower, all the time. My brain is actually the bit has been trained, but the result is that my throat and lungs get a lot less wear and tear through environmental irritants, cold and viruses that have instead been caught in my convoluted nasal passages that are covered in mucous, and just wash it all away.

Cheers

Louise

Virgin coconut oil, 2 tblsp p/d (or start with one) -- get a good quality one. Bet you have it where you live, but if not, tropicaltraditions.com or radiantlifecompany. I don't particularly like taste, so I put in warm water so it melts then down it. Coconut oil is amazingly healing -- the less processed the better. Recommended it to a woman with chronic chronic cough and respiratory issues and it was amazing.

Chinese herbs -- my doc gave me something called "herbal ENT" in capsules. If you want maker, let me know and I'll get info.

"X-Clear" for any sinus stuff -- made with Xylitol -- breaks down bacteria -- not sure if you need this.

We've had coughs here for months, too -- finally the coconut oil and chinese herbs did it for us. Waited too long to get it.

Hope you are feeling much better soon. And, I kwym - really hard to slow down with so much going on --- but, even a few hours in bed can do wonders.

Love, Marie

Believe me, I am the queen of self diagnosis, but Christine, don't you think you should see a doctor to make sure something more serious isn't going on? You are RN and I am sure other possiblities have ran through your mind, you can't help it, you know a vast amount about the human body having been in the medical profession for many years. I still has faith in conventional medicine and I know you do to. Hope you feel better soon. Connie

i am surprised you were the only one to get it though....hope you feel better soon
~Amanda

hi christine,
glad to hear your wonderful husband is back to look after you. hope that the doctor is able to shed some light--i have to say, you sound far iller than when i usually hear about whooping cough, so the idea of a secondary infection does make sense.

let us know how you get on at the doctors--we are thinking of you!!!

Kiki

it is curious that only you caught this that day at ped care, and that your dh hasn't caught it from you.
my thoughts on the matter, which obviously, you are free to toss in the trash if it sounds like rubbish to you, is that so often our immunity is intertwined with our emotional lives. I think its entirely possible, that if you were going through something particularly emotionally stressful, that would put a chink in the armor of your immune system. Of course its nothing I can prove, but I think the positive aspect to my musings is that once I figure out what emotional upset has allowed illness to take hold, I try to connect the specific upset with the specifics of my illness and believe from emotional healing will come physical healing. maybe just magical thinking that works as a placebo for me, but thought I'd share it anyway.
I hope that you start to feel better soon and that you can breathe easy.

immunity is a funny one--a agree gmom, it is so emotionally linked, and so much we don't understand. When DS got measles, he never even saw the child he got it from. they must have passed in the hallway, and he--and everyone else who came in contact with this child, got it. We on the other hand had people lining up to catch it from us (i know, it'll sound crazy to some people here!) and not a single person caught it except his brother who was in his face the first four days of it till he got truly ill. The anti vaxers argue one problem with vaxes is susceptibility--some people are very susceptible, some aren't, and i think some people shed a lot, some don't.
I usually fight things off well, at the moment I'm catching everything and i know it's because i'm over worked and emotionally and physically exhausted.

So why only you caught it Christine, who knows. Sounds like if they were going to get it by now they would have (incubation 7 - 10 days norm), and if they haven't gotten it by now they must not be susceptible at this moment which is a relief!

i am sorry the doctors' was so unsatisfactory. i do hope you turn a corner soon, and please keep us updated!!!

Glad to hear you are well Christine. Coughing and POP do not go together! I had whooping cough as a child and I coughed from early fall right through to the spring! This outbreak of Swine flu has got me nervous again about coughing! I hope it is contained soon, and I wish everyone immunity!

Janice