JUST HOW DOES ONE LIVE WELL WITH A 3RD DEGREE PROLAPSE?

Submitted by Christine on March 9, 2008 - 10:29pm

After having been asked this question a couple of weeks ago, I have been so-o-o-o struggling to answer. I think maybe because I have already answered it…in a book, a dvd, a thousand forum posts and another two thousand emails. Sitting here staring at my computer – again – I’ve come to the conclusion that I can’t answer it.
So…I am asking my dear WholeWomen for help. Perhaps I will have more energy to answer if we can respond as a group.

Love,

Christine

Comments

elleninala

March 9, 2008 - 11:30pm

I thought when I first felt my prolapse several months ago and found this site, that I surely would never experience the bulge protruding lower than the labia, but sometimes now it does. And I don't know what the future will bring. I'm 60, and so I can't know how it feels to start having this problem in when you're younger, and I feel that would be more challenging.

But BECAUSE OF THE WOMEN ON THIS FORUM, I feel empowered to know what I'm dealing with, to know the dangers of the standard medical treatments, and to learn from others how they manage. By this means and through my own experimenting I've come up with lots of little solutions to deal with the various aspects of this condition.

One solution is acceptance. That's where I feel it would be much more difficult if I were a lot younger. At 60 it seems reasonable to accept that I should no longer try to lift things that are obviously too heavy for me to lift, which I used to do all the time. But acceptance, and sharing the news of the condition and the changes it brings in your life, with your closest loved ones, and in turn feeling accepted yourself, is one solution.

Figuring out how to adjust the clothes you wear to the new circumstance is another solution. This can be a pretty creative part of it.

Figuring out how to keep on exercising without hurting yourself is another.

Using healthful balms is another.

A little self-pampering is another.

Figuring out a good diet for yourself that you can live with is another.

The degree of suffering for each woman is different and what solution each woman chooses is up to her. The amazing and wonderful thing about dealing with it today as opposed to dealing with it ten years ago is that we are not dealing with it alone any more, going one by one into the doctor's office to be told what their "solution" is, and going blindly forward.

Now we support one another and make our own decisions.

Thank God for that.

Ellen

louiseds

March 10, 2008 - 12:00am

Hi Christine

Sorry to be such an ignorant bunny. I have never been able to get my head around these degrees of prolapse. I understand that there are several different measurement systems, and have had several different diagnoses from different doctors anyway, so degrees of prolapse don't mean much to me.

Just so we are all talking about the same thing, would you please define what third degree means to you?

Cheers

Louise

Clonmacnoise

March 10, 2008 - 5:40am

Christine,

Like first wearing glasses; like first having to wear a guard for a period and knowing this is going to happen every single month; like wearing a hearing aid or a bra; like dealing with the pain of arthritis; like being fat for the first time; like being married to an ass; like having a baby who screams all day long for months or years like in my case; these are all life changes that we re-organize our lives to fit around. A bulge in the vagina is not really different - that's what I keep telling myself.

For the first several months, it's odd - it's annoying - it's just a pain in the #$%^&, but one does get used to it if one is patient and persistent. It's about time and healing and the ability to realize from the time we are about 14 we have begun to age. Aging is not for sissies; it's for women with guts and perseverance.

I'm the luckiest woman on the earth because I learned early to take care of myself and stay away from doctors. I've learned to read my own needs and I do that, so this prolapse thing is not the end of the world. I'm busier than most women at my age; I'm involved in a hundred things and on my feet hours and hours a day, so I know it can be done.

I hope you are well and taking care of YOU. I have the deepest respect for you. God bless you in all you do and may grace shower you like snowflakes.

Judy

alemama

March 10, 2008 - 1:47pm

Look it's like this. How do you live well in a wheelchair? How do you live well deaf, dumb and blind? How do you live well with any ailment? Had it from birth? Got it as a child? Developed it as a young adult or as a mature adult?
It is all the same. You either realize how normal it is and how small it is or you don't. You either have an attitude of acceptance of it and move gracefully or you don't. You can sit and cry over all you have lost and complain about the pain or you can be thankful for what you have and seek ways to ease the pain.

I have no idea what it is like to have a 3rd degree prolapse- and just like any other type of prolapse I think 10 women with the same degree will have 10 different situations and 10 different outlooks.

3rd degree is just a number- I refuse to be boxed in by it. Talk to me about how to live well when you have chronic UTI- and I will give the pee on hands and knees advice. Ask me how to live well when you are afraid to lift your baby- and I will tell you to get down on the floor with the baby. Ask me how to live well when what you really want to do is run a marathon- and I will tell you to swim one.

Modify. Change your clothing style. Let your house be messy if necessary. Pay someone to move the limb out of your yard. Put your laundry basket on wheels. Find exercises that give you relief. Make love in positions that feel good to your prolapse.

Move on. Find joy in other parts of life.

Share with someone else. This condition is so normal. you will find in sharing with someone else that you are not alone.

Get into the posture. It really helps.

louiseds

March 10, 2008 - 8:59pm

Hi ladies

I think you have knocked it on the head Alemama. I now realise why my friends always used to comment that I always seemed to be on the floor playing with my babies and toddlers, and how they could never do that! Wha...?

I always wondered why I have had a laundry trolley ever since our first baby?

I have always wondered why I asked for a bag trolley for Christmas a few years ago, and have nearly worn it out.

I always wondered why it doesn't bother me terribly that I can hardly see the carpet for stuff. We all go to bed well fed and happy, and there are usually clean clothes to wear, music and laughter in the house. Cleanliness isn't necessarily next to godliness. It's just that some cleanliness is commonsense and prevents spread of disease.

I guess it just depends on whether you are a problems person or a solutions person.

It all depends on whether you plan on choosing to stay as you are and be miserable, or stay as you are and get used to it, seek more ways to adapt, and do what you have to do, and get on with your life.

THERE IS NO THIRD OPTION. It is the first or second. I know what I would choose, and what I do choose when my prolapses occasionally descend to the point of worry.

You could say that surgery is the third option, and it probably is, but eventually it will probably bring you back, one way or another to another resulting difficulty, maybe worse, then you are back to the basic choice of those same two options.

I learnt two fundamental lessons at an 80 hour intensive cognitive behaviour therapy course a few years ago, which have stood me in very good stead so far in all parts of my life. They are:-

1 The only person or thing I have any control over in this life is me.

2 The only thing I can do to determine my future is to make choices between the possibilities that present themselves each day.

If Stephen Hawking and others like him can make as good a use of the bodies and minds they have, then I can too. And if I can, then anybody can.

Cheers

Louise

PS I have my moments, don't you worry, but I eventually get over them! I am the only person who can.

Christine

March 10, 2008 - 2:30pm

Thank you Dearies! Louise – third degree is somewhere near, at, or slightly beyond the vaginal opening.

Now that we are older and have more data about living well with prolapse, I need to create an FAQ about it. I may have to change it again when we’re eighty…but then, maybe not!

I never forget the uterus continues to shrink to pre-pubertal dimensions, which could take several years post-menopause if it is a reversal of the developmental process. It shrinks and becomes more fibrous – like an old gourd. I imagine this shrinking would effect all prolapse – the uterus directly and the celes indirectly.

My prolapse doesn’t change. It goes slightly up and down on a regular basis, but the ups and the downs remain in the same range. Because, like Judy, I’m no longer menstruating, feed myself well, and live in my intended shape, I cannot see what might cause a significant change. Still, it is always there…but more like an old friend now.

Like Ellen, I don’t lift boulders anymore, but am free to do just about anything else I want. I jump and leap (strongly in the posture!) on a regular basis and always feel better for doing it.

If I were limited and couldn’t run, jump, or even walk very far, I would still gently pull myself into the posture throughout the day. I was SO touched by Jane’s recent post…the posture is about all she has right now AND ABOUT ALL SHE NEEDS as she recovers from postpartum appendectomy. Love you Jane!

If I were further limited and could only sit, I would sit with the upper body posture and know that my breath was moving through my body as nature intended. If at some point I could only lie down, I would do so bolstered with pillows so that I was still breathing in my intended shape.

For those who cannot retain a pessary and have true external bulging – I’m wondering if slightly dampened organic cotton balls might be a reasonable choice? If they worked for some subset of women, they would certainly have to be worn more occasionally than regularly and removed after a few hours.

When my symptoms are really bothersome, I alternate firebreathing with bending over and strongly pulling my organs toward my lower belly. I have also found that sitting in a strong pro-posture way improves my prolapse when I stand.

With every inspiration our breath pulls our lumbar spine forward. You can discover this yourself by lying flat on the floor, placing your hand underneath your lower back, and taking deep breaths. The spine does not move toward the floor, but rises away from it with every breath. This is why all the disciplines that try to counter natural breathing and spinal movement by having us suck in our stomach and tuck under our tailbone are actually detrimental to the core of our anatomy.

All of life seems to be about learning to live gently in the moment and then gracefully letting go of what was never really ours to keep.

So many hugs,

Christine

P.S. Just read Alemama’s response…she says it all.

BaNa48

January 8, 2009 - 8:17pm

Dear Christine, It's been awhile since I've added anything to the forum! I've been so busy with family and kind of depressed also! I am looking into vaginal obliteration! Do you know anything about this? I am no longer sexually active! My husband of 49 years is not too well! I have gotten to the point where nothing works! It's hard to start peeing sometimes! I have to push things back in before I can sit in the tub!
I have postponed surgery for many years now! I want to keep the uterus that God gave me and this is an option! Do you know anyone that had good results with this! My bladder has dropped and I leak a little at night! Doctors want to lift the bladder and close the vagina almost completely! That sounds really weird to me!!! Any info on this I would appreciate! Thanks friend, Nancy

MeMyselfAndI

March 11, 2008 - 12:55pm

So what happens if you do ALL of that and your laundry basket IS on wheels and has been for a while, you have adjusted clothing, you have a good diet, you don't lift anything heavy at all - You ARE in posture, and have been for a long time.

Then it gets worse. Then what? Most people on here say they haven't dealt with a 3rd degree so they cannot comment on what it is LIKE. Most women it seems are post menopause who can accept so easily and in their 60's - If i were in my 60's this would be a breeze as I know my MS by then will have me in a worse state so what they hey my kids will be grown and I would not have so much I have to do like school etc etc.

I was under the impression that when you were in posture and had stabilized this you were ok as long as you stayed in posture didn't strain etc etc yadda and I told that here to all. Only to find that is not the whole truth of the matter. And I have emailed with MANY women fromt he forum (No - I am not ''outing'' anyone) Any I have been told that some have 'lostfaith' in WW and that is a very sad thing to hear from them.

I want to hear from someone who HAS a 3rd degree on a daily basis WITH young children to care for. Then she may be on the same level. What is a grade **4** like you then wonder to yourself, things even searching on the internet I am unable to answer, how far 'out' can a grade3 get. All questions I cannot answer.

It is easy to say 'get used to it' If I were in my 60's this would be fine and dandy. But I am not even 40 yet and I have children to care for and so much to do, a mother to care for who is housebound and NOBODY to help me. And I have emailed with people in their early thirties to late twenties - Life for them is entirely different to a woman in her 60's etc.

But - Still I am adapting life more as I feel there is nothing I can do about it bar plod on, cos I am not going under the knife! It is a life curve etc. But living well - Well living it is but well - That is another thought entirely, as it is all dependant on the life you had previously etc etc

I re read and re read the book etc so I can help people I email with but if I cannot find answers for myself then I fear I am failing them also.

I have learned to live partially sighted (2002-Jan 2005) I have learned to be in a wheelchair (People seem to think you are invisible or dim like when I had to wear an eye patch people spoke to other people cos they assumed my mind had failed also lol) I have hearing problems also and have had a hearing aid that didn't help a jot - To be honest - NONE of that was anything like this. Maybe because this is something that is a whole different ball game, but maybe the woman sat beside me if I got on a bud would be getting through this unscathed - Who knows.

I have some pluses in it (No UTIs as yet etc)

But - (And they tell me in my email) - This in their opinion is NOT living well. I have been told this is not living it is just 'existing' and that saddens me as I try to reply in the most positive way, but different people look at life in different ways and a young woman with a young family to care for will obviously look at it entirely differently.

I think it is like a bereavement. You cry for a while - Get angry for a while and in each stage you need to get through to move forward. Different people react in different ways. Some people will go to get a 'fix' as they feel any fix is better than no fix. Some people will manage to muddle through somehow. Others will be somewhere in between.

I am a muddle through-er really.

But in telling someone HOW to live well. That is dependant on their previous life (Say a woman who HAS to run - If running is her passion and that has stopped her running with the posture not helping or whatever - She will assume she is 'not living' as her passion in life is removed - Yes I know you may say 'find a new passion' etc etc yadda) So when she has done all the tips and still needs more. Is that the time to say 'Oh well' And move on thinking you have done your bit? Letting her feel bereft and alone? NOT in my lifetime it isn't and will never be. What you do is up to you but not in any religious way but I will NEVER walk on the other side. And whether they asked me one time or a million times - I would always answer, and this may help ME in finding ways to re-discover how to explain something that I know oh so well but another person is obviously needing help with. That is a learning but in the same time it would help others and help myself to help others - Cos I never wanna be the one to lose someone because they lost faith in me. Cos that is real sad. And I would HOPE that WW will always evolve to that end.

I so wanted back then to be able to be a face for WW and now feel I have obviously failed.

But time and life moves on, and only that will show how the cards are dealt.

OK this is most prolly a load of crud. That's what I wrote best eh and I have a screeching child over there (stroppy child) so will hafta end now anyways.

Be well...

Last night I spent in A&E with Mum having an ECG and today in the Docs - She might have angina or possibly something else - she has to go to cardiology and have tests. So I live in worry of this and POP is out of the forefront at this moment. But I worry about everyone I email with all the time. And we have an NHS wait of 7 weeks 1 day!!!

Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference
Look into the eyes - They hold the key.
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

Christine

March 11, 2008 - 1:55pm

Oh Sue,

Please don’t discourage women! Coming back to our natural posture is also coming back to our pelvic organ support system. It most certainly works wonders for many (most?) women, but for any number of reasons it doesn’t work for every woman! But remember, it did work for you!

To assist the posture we have pessaries, firebreathing, exercise and a myriad of other ideas women have contributed.

I am so sorry the posture has ultimately failed you – but Sue, progressive muscular sclerosis has to affect the body’s fascia – that is to be expected. Comparing your experience with other women is neither valid nor fair.

It could take some women years to improve – especially if they have developed without much regular exercise and are used to a lot of inactivity. One has to have the will to change and also be able to put forth the effort. Not every woman can do so and those people need to find other options. Also, women who have serious obstetric damage must accept the realities of their injuries.

Thank you so much for telling us how you feel, which I for one totally appreciate, but I ask you from the bottom of my heart not to discourage others.

Love,

Christine

MeMyselfAndI

March 11, 2008 - 2:08pm

I am NOT discouraging others - I will not go on as obviously you did not understand.

It is NOT just me - Other women without my maladies have spoken to me off forum. So It is not just me is it.
I have not got progressive sclerosis in fact I have a very very mild form as my neuro told me.

Your reply speaks volumes.

Take care

Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference
Look into the eyes - They hold the key.
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

a6a25725

March 11, 2008 - 5:10pm

I am so sorry you are going through so much stress. Stress can have such a negative affect on the body as well as the mind. Perhaps when the stress eases the whole woman posture will once again help you.
I know when I am under a lot of stress I have a hard time removing my pessary. It seems to move up farther and doesn't want to move. Completely different story when I am relaxed. Stress affects so many parts of the body negatively.
I remember when my late husband was slowly sinking deeper into demetia (before I found this website),even though I was wearing a pessary everything seemed worse than when I was more relaxed. This went on for a few years and didn't really ease until he went into a care home.
Maybe you could try a pessary or a support belt to help ease the situation for awhile.
Just because we are 60 or more doesn't mean we accept things easily, we see things from a broader perspective and still have a head ache from the last time we butted our heads against a wall.
You are a strong and wise woman and I'm sure you will find ways to overcome this situation, so you will still be able to help others.
Please keep on letting us know how things are going for you. You are one of the bright lights on this forum.
Take care and good luck .
Flora

shellymum

March 11, 2008 - 4:54pm

My gyno doesn't put number on things, so I don't have a specific diagnosis for my rectocele - but sometimes it does bulge out so if I sit down, I sit on the bulge and it's very uncomfortable. Does this mean a stage 3? I have three young kids and I've only been living with this for a few weeks. But I'm having more good days than bad. The posture is helping. If I check when I'm slouching, the bulge looks bigger than if I check when I'm in the posture (a little tricky!) sometimes I can't see it outside at all. I'm coping. I'm thinking positively. I'm trying to find out what diet my body can cope with and what makes things worse.

It's ok. Things could be worse. I could be dying from a terminal illness. I could have lost my sight. I could have lost limbs. I could be unable to walk. Ok, so I can't pick up my two bigger kids, but I can still hug them, read to them, play with them etc. And I just rest when I can and get other people to carry the washing basket!

Best wishes
Shellymum

Clonmacnoise

March 11, 2008 - 6:29pm

Dear Sue,

"So what happens if you do ALL of that and your laundry basket IS...and have been for a long time... Then it gets worse. Then what?"

Then you take what you have and work with that.

When I was a young woman in my 30s, my greatest hurdle was being married to a man who admits he never liked me. I worked with what I had. There was not a dime, little security and no love. I still worked with what I had.

Today I'm nearing 57 - and that doesn't put me out to pasture. I have a third degree prolapse, arthritis and a very serious inability to metabolize ANY medication, so pain relief is a non-issue.

Today instead of 4 children 14 years apart, I have 45 children who are 3,4,5,6,7. I make scratch breakfasts for these children every day. I make homemade everything for them every day. I bake and teach and create a kind of home school atmosphere from 5:45 - 5:30 every day summer and winter. Instead of being free to slack off when I don't feel like doing it, I have to serve my meals on time, keep copious records, be inspected by every jackass on the planet and measure everything I serve.

I'm also responsible for cleaning 6000 square feet including 10 toilets. I keep a jungle of plants alive, care for and clean up after 20 guinea pigs, two rabbits, 25 love birds and a couple of hamsters. I put in and keep a vegetable garden to feed 45, organize and take 10 hour field trips to other cities, take the whole 45 swimming twice every week, and on top of that I do all the shopping and all the lugging - myself. I buy close to $400.00 worth of groceries a week.

At home, I do all the housework, the shopping, the errands, the garden work and on the side, I keep two blogs alive and write a column for NBC. I do workshops on nutrition on the weekends, and I babysit for my grandchildren as often as I can.

I don't have MS. I have arthritis that keeps me awake at night.

It is easy to say 'get used to it' If I were in my 60's this would be fine and dandy.

It is fine and dandy. I got used to it, and I've never been happier, and the Whole Woman site has been part of the reason I cope as well as I do. When Christine first said, "It's not a life threatening condition," I took heart.

I think the whole difference between those who live a good life and those of us who don't is attitude. Attitude extends into the idea that I am happy because of what "I can do for you..." For me, making someone smile is my achievement no matter how much I'm hurting. That could be a generational thing.

I am more than my vagina. I am more than my sex organs. I am more than this bulging business. If that's all I was, I'd be feeling the way you do. Discomfort is a fluid thing. When ATS was feeling so poor, we all kept up the support day in and day out.

"So when she has done all the tips and still needs more. Is that the time to say 'Oh well' And move on thinking you have done your bit? Letting her feel bereft and alone? NOT in my lifetime it isn't and will never be."

I've never read that anyone has been treated like that on WW.

Sue, you haven't failed. You've taken a nosedive, and each and everyone of us is here to listen and to care about you.

I'm sorry about your mother. Our little school will keep her in our prayers.

Judy

alemama

March 11, 2008 - 8:08pm

you said it so much better than I could. Sue we are here for you. We love you. I know the posture has worked for you in the past. I am sure it will work for you again. I support Christines idea that for some women it may take years to really grow into the posture. So if you are getting private messages from women for whom the posture isn't working encourage them to keep on trying- it will work.

I am 28 years old. I have 3 children under 5. On very bad days my prolapse is at the opening and you are right it is hard. Thankfully there are not so many of those. Thankfully I have you all when they do come around. If my deal gets worse- and very well may- I am going to go through the process-but in the end I know I will accept it for what it is and move on-keep on keepin on.

Sue you are one strong woman. I suggest you go back and read some of your old posts- or write a response to yourself pretending you are just one of us on the forum.

kit

March 12, 2008 - 12:15am

Sue, I believe that when we are in the greatest pain, we cry out to those we feel the closest to. Pain is seldom pretty—and we require a place of safety to completely lower our defenses. We feel safe with family, with loved ones, with friends--- and the women of this site seem all of that to me, and I know they do to you.

You are so loved here, and you have shared your love so freely in return. You’ve also shared your strength. I have been blessed to benefit from it. On days you were hurting you took time to explain exercises to me. You are hurting now and everyone is here to offer you strength.

I know we are limited by the typed word, but that certainly does not stop the flow of love and genuine empathy that is the essence of this unique and beautiful place. Here, everyone is accepted, everyone is equal, no one is required or expected to be perfect. We give on our strong days and we take on our weaker ones, we stand up when we can, we stand back when we have to…we share our successes, we share our grief, all is okay, all is accepted.

When I came here some months ago, I was broken in a way I had never been before. After a year of illness by prescription, I continued to slide. I did not know what was happening to me. I was so very frightened and in quite a bit of pain. I don’t even know how I found this place but I will be forever thankful for the God-given-gift that I did. Just to have someone acknowledge and understand the deepness of my pain was like receiving the breath of life. And I received that gift over and over and over.

Each day as I stand in posture, as I exercise, as I eat better than I did before, as I treat myself with dignity and love and respect…as I do my part in gaining my healing…I am thankful for all the lessons that I have learned here. I am thankful for what I see as the guiding light of this place--Christine’s work--and the light of hope it has provided in my life. I am changed because of it. I have embraced that hope completely for myself ---it is as much a part of me as my own breath now.

I do realize that there are no guarantees, that my 50 year old body could continue to decline in ways that will make life more difficult. If so, I will work from there. But I am not going to live each day expecting it, nor do I believe it has to happen. I feel empowered with hopeful knowledge that is the gold standard of the Hope/Help available. I would be foolish to not give it my all. I will not have perfection, I will not have my former life, but I will be breathing, I will be smiling, I will be loving, I will be happy, I will be grateful, grateful, grateful, grateful. And on the days that I fall completely down I will come and ask for a hand up…knowing that one will be here for me. As so many are here for you now, Sue.

Everyday I work on my body to see how it responds. I am still getting familiar with it. In many ways this body I have lived in for 50 years is completely new territory. Lately, I have been having success with isometrics. I have been amazed at the strength I’ve gained in such a short time. I think I’m on to something because I don’t have much trouble with stress incontinence but when I do one of the isometric stretches, I sometimes feel a drop or two of urine leak. I take it as a sign that I am reaching the area that I want to reach without putting any downward pressure there. HOPE. I cling to it, I breathe it, I tell it hello and how lovely it is everyday. Yes, I speak to Hope. Hope is real to me. And it was you, Sue, you and a couple of others that got me working out my own exercises, in addition to the Wholewoman ones I do. It is amazing what we can do when we tap into our own inner knowing. And this growing, collective knowing is even more amazing.

It is Hope that I received here at Wholewoman--from the work that is the foundation of this place, from the women who are the heart and spirit of it. No guarantees, just real and genuine and hard-earned possibilities that I could take for my own and work from. I cannot even contemplate where I would be without finding myself here and being accepted so freely. My husband, my children, all of my family and friends have benefited from my being here. For this safety net that caught me and cradled me, gave me a little tough love when I needed it, and a shoulder to cry on when that worked better…I am forever indebt.

I don’t know what I’ll do if I ever have to face stage three. I know I am fortunate there, right now, but I’ve been given other health issues to deal with. I’ve had a full and heavy plate for almost two years now…I’m storing up my lessons in case they’re needed in the future. Life gives no guarantees, but I’ll remain hopeful.

Sue, you are still breathing. Breathe in that hope again. You are still wonderfully alive, you’ve got a gorgeous little daughter who needs the strong mother you know you are…Where there’s life, there’s hope, ya know? Remember that? I do. I tell it to myself, every-single-day, and I thank the wise-woman who shared those words of Hope with me. Love to you, Sue, and to you, Christine, and to all the rest of you, all my very best, Kit

Mummy_to_three

March 12, 2008 - 12:30am

I'm not too sure what grade my prolapse is. All I know is there are times when it's not too bad. Then there are the times that all is bulging but not quite outside.

I am only new to this, only discovered the prolapse 10wks ago...and have gone through an intense grieving for my body stage, I feel like I'm pulling myself out on the otherside, perhaps learning to live with the prolapse and adapt my behaviour to suit my body.
To learn to accept this and learn to live the best way I can. I'm 23, mum to nearly 6 yr old, a 3yr old and a 12 wk old, and I'm busy and my life has alot to offer me. I needed help to overcome the intense grief I felt for my old body, and that help has come in the form of antidepressents, I feel like it's cleared my mind to help me look at this 'living well situation' and what I can do to make life work for me.

I'm listening to my body, it tells me when I need to sit down and put my feet up, I can cuddle my 12 wk old and my older children sitting down, and it's a great time to read a book.

This prolapse has taken from me, but has also given to me....it has given me a cue to stop, relax and not stress about the washing in the basket, or the dishes on the bench, instead to cuddle my babies and rest my bosy and soul. Yesterday for the first time in years, I didn't do the washing, and I didn't feel bad for it either.

My partner has become this amazing rock, I feel we may have reached a different level within our relationship, he is truley there for me, and loves me. This helps me to move on, live for today and learn my bodies 'cues'.

I think living well for me is finding that balance within, knowing when is enough.

I was so hesitant to do anything a few weeks ago for the fear of doing damage to myself, but in the last week I have played swingball with my son, rode the quad motorbike because I love the feeling of wind on my face and because this is living, living well to me, is living for today, not what might happen tomorrow.

Christine

March 19, 2008 - 8:17pm

Something has been tapping me on the shoulder, so guess I’d better mention it.

If there are any of the “many” members who communicated with Sue on the issue she describes here who might be feeling awkward in any way – Please Don’t Give it a Second Thought!

Lots of us lose faith in any number of things and then perchance find it again – or maybe not.

Just want to say that all is Okay however you feel and please know we love you!

:) Christine

annma

March 31, 2008 - 12:48pm

After having been diagnosed with 3rd degree cystocele (the midwife sad it was the "worst she had ever seen") I spent months NOT lifting my baby NOT wearing my baby NOT playing with my children etc. I was sad, angry, and frustrated at my helplessness. I could not walk to the park with my children because of the prolapse being so uncomfortable and I used to run miles!

After a few months of ww exercise and applying the posture I improved steadily until it seemed to reach a point where improvement was slow if at all, but the cele was at a point I could live with-i.e. did not look like a baby crowning, all inside so no one knows but me (not that just anyone is really looking, but those of you with visible celes kwim)also much more comfortable, not noticable every second I am upright.

At that point I began to live my "normal" life again, with awareness. I lift the baby all day long (30 lbs. now at 1!)with awareness of posture and pelvic floor and play with my kids, but I tell them not to squeeze me. I will wear the baby in the backpack (ergo) but I will have repercussions for a while unfortunately from that. The Ergo seems to crush the pelvic area too much. I would like to buy a carrier that attaches higher. I wear a supporter most days I am going to be out just for assurance. If I am feeling really low I put in the sea sponges to act as a pessery. Too many activities will bring the bladder down, so then I slow up for a few days and rest with my feet up against a well while watching TV and it seems to resolve itself. I have not been brave enough to try running again, but I walk a lot and have started practicing yoga-again being aware of my body.

I guess I just decided to go on with my life and be at peace with my altered anatomy. I am often envious when I see young woman running, or being active with no thought-but now that I am 40 I am able to accept some of that as just the fact that they are young and I am not. What happened to me was wrong and the fault, in my opinion, of the medical community, but what happened happened and there really is no good alternative than to learn to live with it and live well.

The posture DOES make a difference as does the exercise (I only have the 1st book). Food makes a BIG difference. I overate on junk (pizza) the other day and I could really feel the difference the next TWO days in my POP. Maybe things got all clogged up in there and pushed on it LOL. I don't usually do that, I rarely even eat wheat or dairy so I could really tell the difference.

So I guess my advice for living well is: do the posture it empowers you, do the exercises they strengthen you, eat well to nourish your whole body and enjoy all the joys life has to give.

One more thing, don't be afraid. Fear has a way of making everything worse. It is a useless emotion in most cases. Hope is better. When you are being proactive doing things to help yourself hope seems better able to push out that fear.

Love, Anna

MeMyselfAndI

March 31, 2008 - 1:25pm

Quote **One more thing, don't be afraid. Fear has a way of making everything worse. It is a useless emotion in most cases. Hope is better. When you are being proactive doing things to help yourself hope seems better able to push out that fear.** Unquote

Never a truer word was said! (words) :)

Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference
Look into the eyes - They hold the key.
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

drmayogini

April 14, 2008 - 8:19pm

Hello Christine!
i'm new and am looking for info on yoga and
rectocele.
Can you please give me the name of your books and DVD, and
where i can purchase them.

THANKYOU!

louiseds

April 14, 2008 - 11:00pm

See my answer to your other post. :-)

Louise

me0819

April 18, 2008 - 11:27pm

Does a sea sponge really work? Where can I find one?

MeMyselfAndI

April 24, 2008 - 1:28pm

Firstly to the comment below - You can (depending on your country) find sea sponges by searching them on google - In UK they are from seapearls.co.uk in uk they are at jadeanpearl.com. Not sure about other countries at the moment.

And secondly as an update to all the below...

I believe that coming to terms with something in your life that you would consider at that time to be 'catastrophic' takes you through the same / similar emotions to a death (Not belittling death or a person you love in any way shape or form - Just meaning the grieving etc)

Firstly you are in shock, you cry, scream, and just feel alone and bereft.

Secondly you go through the stage of anger

You can jump through these stages many times oner and over again, for a long time - Nothing has a set length of time... It is just a cycle that you hafta go through I think...

Then you go through confusion - You are angry yet upset yet confused and this bounces back and forth for a while...

Then you come to a stage where you find that time moves and waits for no woman, and you hafta find ways to get through - Because life will not wait for you to catch it up...

Finally after bouncing through these same emotions oh so many times you have lost count you arrive at a kind of acceptance (Or more an acknowledgement that this is not death and things move forward no matter what)

I think in this you can bounce back to the previous things - But each time it it easier to get back on track again...

Things change
Life moves forward
You either cope, or you don't...

Someone said to me last week I think it was... They said something like ''You are much more at peace with this than you used to be''

It kinda slapped me one in the face...

I sat here looking at the screen (It was said in an email) and I thought to myself... ''I am - Aren't I''

So I believe that to cope with 3rd degree (Even though my PT said its not - I think they like to play with numbers and change their number scheme so they look like they know more than anyone else) To cope with this - If you can, and obviously allpeople cope in differing ways...

But for me... It was all of the above...

Now.... Nearly 6mths after it decided to return and make it's prescence known... I can cope with this - One of my WW email pals told me to try the sea sponges out again - I did - And now they are my new best friend... When feel the need like if I am out and about etc - To take away the worry of weirdy feelings - I ram one in and I feel totally normal again, once it is in position and comfy.

Maybe without the sponge I would still be in the above predicament...

When I am in the house I don't use it, as am not on my feet as much etc

People from here have emailed me about the sponges - And I hfta saythat for me, and a couple of other people who tried them after we emailed - They have shown themselves to be a great help. I guess they are sorta like a pessary but at the same time not - It is something I am in control of - Guess for me (Control freak) that is a good thing...

Anyways all I wanted to say that is for people who are oing through this - Many things can work together to bring a resolution that is liveable with, prolly not as good as it not being there to start with - but - Its better than any other alternative that I can think of thus far :-)

*End of babble*

Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference
Look into the eyes - They hold the key.
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

chattylady

December 9, 2008 - 11:53pm

I am 63 years old and have a rectolele. It's not painful and I don't have lower back pain but it can be very uncomfortable at times. Sometimes it does show through the vagina. I would like to know if anyone has tried the sponges or there is a device that is advertised for about $100 to use. I don't know if I'm supposed to say the name or not. Has anyone used this or sponges. Or what about pessaries. I don't have my uterus so I read one would not stay inplace. Any advice will certainly be appreciated.
Sometimes it is not visible and does not bother and then sometimes it bulges and is very uncomfortable. I think it may be a 3rd stage but don't know.
When I first went to dr. with it I thought my bladder had dropped which I have had repaired. She said the bladder was still in place but that I had a rectocele.

Christine

January 8, 2009 - 10:56pm

Dear Nancy,

It’s not as easy as it sounds. The pelvic floor muscles must be sutured closed (that’s where the real ‘hole’ is) and the angle of the urethra, which transects the pelvic floor, becomes altered so risk of urinary incontinence greatly increases. Also, it is not a great idea to enclose the uterus. Even in older women the uterus is a very open system. It is hugely vascular (all our blood pumps through it on a minute-by-minute basis) and some people consider it the largest cleansing organ in the body while we are menstruating. If it is sewn up inside, you (or your doctor) will not have access to early symptoms of disease.

Maybe it would be better than your present condition and maybe it would not - I can't predict that.

Nancy, what happens when you lean way forward to pee, I mean to the point where your rump is off the seat? I ALWAYS lean forward now, or I can’t go!

And...why do you have to push anything up to take a bath?

I will gladly send you the new dvd in a couple of weeks.

Your friend,

Christine

BaNa48

January 9, 2009 - 11:42am

Christine, Yes I do lean way forward to pee! And the bulge when sitting in the tub is so uncomfortable, so I push it back in! The doctor said something about leaving two small openings in the vagina so any drainage would get out! Sometimes when I'm leaning forward I have to wait until I feel the bulge move to the front and then I can pee! Nancy

Mae

January 9, 2009 - 4:01pm

Hi Nancy,

When I am having a bad day (which usually happens if I don't eat well) and my bulge is low, I have a hard time peeing as well. I find that if I push the bulge up high and out of the way I have no trouble going. When the bulge is there I believe I have to manually move it...I don't think leaning forward would get it to move but maybe it would. I'll have to give it a try. You might want to try moving it up high yourself and see if it works better for you that way or if leaning forward does.

Regards,
~Mae

Christine

January 9, 2009 - 4:54pm

Mae...thanks for making pushing the bladder out of the way to pee sound like no big deal. I've read so many references in gyn literature that make it sound like the end of the world.

Okay, Nancy, you have the drainage problem solved.

If I remember correctly, when I researched STWW what I found regarding negative outcomes of colpocleisis had primarily to do with scar tissue pulling down on the urethra, resulting in urinary incontinence.

Nichols and Randall give us a clue as to why that happens when they explain the negative effects of deep perineoplasty (creating a ‘new’ perineum) - remember that the ‘levator muscles’ are what will be sutured closed in the operation you are considering.

“If placed directly into the belly of the levator muscle, these sutures may actually destroy portions of the muscle, eventually resulting in a shelf-like ridge of nonelastic fibrous tissue within the introitus and immediately beneath the posterior vaginal wall.”

The only other concern I have is how nerve damage - which would inevitably result from such surgery - would affect the way the levator muscles move during bowel movements. The entire pelvic floor moves forward from tailbone toward pubic bones to complete a bowel movement, which squeezes out the end of feces so the process remains relatively tidy. If the muscles are rigid from having been sewn together, it’s hard to imagine if and how defecatory function would be affected.

BaNa48

January 10, 2009 - 7:29am

Again, thank you for the info! I am just so confused as to what to do! So many of the women I know have had the hysterectomy and are just fine! Why do I think I'm so different from them? Thank you too, Mae! I just don't know what else to say! Nancy

Isabel

January 25, 2009 - 2:07am

Hi my sister had a hysterectomy and used to tell me that she had painful intercourse. I know they removed her uterus. She is two years younger than me but looks a lot older (don't know if this has any connection). Anyway I suffer from recurrent uti's and spoke to a friend of mine who had her incontinence repaired and she too says she is fine and that I should have it done. I am so confused but I don't want to have them remove my uterus.

Isabel

Please do share more info if you have any. Thank you!

Isabel

January 18, 2009 - 3:52am

Isabel

Hi I have been diagnosed with a cystocele. I believe it is some kind of prolapse as I do feel a bulge. My doctor however tells me that if it doesn't bother me I don't need surgery. However she also told me that if I have a urinary tract infection twice in one month then I would definitely need the surgery. I already have had more than that number of UTI's but try to manage it with cranberry which I take daily. This has not prevented it from coming back. How do we deal with this? I do have my reservations on the surgery. Thank for helping.

reikimom

May 6, 2009 - 2:32pm

Last week I went to the gyno for yet another pessary fitting and was told I am not a "good candidate" for wearing a pessary for my cystocele. The last pessary was painful and I started bleeding, which is not a good thing because I am on Plavix, but I really gave it the old college try and wore it for 4 days because I wanted it to work so much. My doctor has told me I need surgery and having just been through a very invasive medical procedure last fall as well as going through a bad divorce I'm just not ready for surgery on many different levels. I am concerned my stage 3 will just progress to a stage 4 and everything will fall out. I have a mild rectocele too but my uterus is in an OK position. I have the book and DVD but found anything other than some simple yoga postures produced a lot of pelvic and lower back pain, more than I usually experience every day. I do the posture as much as possible - I find not sucking my stomach in to be a real challenge. I have been eating better and notice some improvement because of that but need to lose weight, especially in my stomach. I know my stress levels are not helping this condition but I'm doing the best I can with Reiki, meditation and breathing techniques. I guess I'm just looking for some answers on how to live with this and reaching out for some help and understanding. My whole life is compromised because I cannot walk far, stand long,lift anything or exercise . I am uncomfortable all the time. I feel as though at 57 my life is so seriously limited and that's bringing my WAY down.

Anyway, how long can you wear a sponge and how difficult is it to insert? Is there anybody out there who has been wearing one for years?? Any side effects?

Michelle

louiseds

May 6, 2009 - 10:50pm

Michelle, it does sound like you are not ready for surgery after all the other traumas you have experienced.

It is hard to know if a doctor is trying to encourage you toward a 'more rewarding treatment for him', rather than a 'more satisfactory treatment for you'. To start off by name calling, "not a good candidate", interesting choice of words, implying that you were not good enough. It sounds like his world view is somewhat skewed. I would be finding a different doctor, so that I could have more confidence that s/he really had my interests at heart, rather than his/hers.

You say that "the last pessary ..." How many others have you tried? Did you use any sort of lubrication?

Re "I am concerned my stage 3 will just progress to a stage 4 and everything will fall out." We haven't, to my knowledge, yet had anybody of the 2880 members who have registered, whose organs have all fallen out. Some have come pretty close, but got better (as far as we can tell). But no, it's not common at all.

Re "I find not sucking my stomach in to be a real challenge". If you have had the same lifetime message as most of us, it will be a challenge!! Your brain has been rewired to suck it in. It is just practice, and convincing your belly that it can do it. When you adjust the way you carry your head and upper body the belly doesn't stick out! It kind of expands underneath itself, leaving a nice little spot, forward of the pubic bone, for your bladder and uterus to sit in. Without that spot, resting on the lower, front abdominal wall, your organs are pushed backwards, over the plughole. It is absolutely vital for you to befriend your belly and let it relax. But remember that it can relax. It is just that your brain won't let it. By amending your clothing style to allow your belly freedom to expand, ie loose skirts, roomy dresses that hang from the breastline or above the hips, and stretchy trousers with an elastic waist or low rise, and long tops nobody will even know that you are carrying your belly relaxed. It is very liberating when you get over the initial unfamiliar sensation. What people will notice is the proud, regal way you carry your upper body and head, your lifted rib cage naturally extending your rectus abdominus muscles, making them tauter, and your belly firmer. You will feel more feminine and graceful if your experience is anything like mine. It is hard not to respect a person who wears their body with pride.

I always felt like a real 'man of a woman' before I found Wholewoman posture and got it right. I couldn't see any point in 'acting like a girl' before. That was a sign of weakness to me. Wow! It's a whole different world now that I embrace my feminine shape (at the grand old age of 56) and show it to the world. I now am wise enough to know that I don't have to be strong in *all* ways. I am now able to forgive myself for being just a human like everybody else. Be a radical. Challenge that old thinking!

Hope you continue to lose extra weight with your better eating habits. I think this is the start of the rest of your life. You will probably laugh at the idea of wearing a pessary in a year's time, but it may be worth perservering with, to get you started. Hope you go OK with the sponges. Use the search box to find posts about them. I was having trouble with the Search function this morning, and somebody mentioned problems yesterday. Maybe it is not working well at the moment. Leave it a day or two, and I'll report it.

Cheers

Louise

jadeandpearl

May 19, 2009 - 5:43pm

Michelle, you wet the sponge, squeeze it out and insert just as you would an O.B. tampon. You may leave it in for as long as you wish but you will probably want to remove it at night, wash it out and reinsert in the morning. We have heard from many women who have been using Sea Pearls for several years with great success. gloria

Clonmacnoise

May 25, 2009 - 11:48pm

Dear Christine and Fellows,

It's been several months since I've "dropped by." Lots in the hopper. I had a lot of "thinking" to do and needed time away from a lot that was very familiar. I thought I'd use this forum question, "How does one live well..." to report on my condition.

When I stopped checking in here, my bladder prolapse was a whopping 3, sagging enough to exhaust me by the end of a busy day. I tried very hard to be cheerful, positive, creative etc. blah, blah, but it was getting the best of me. My rectocele was driving me crazy and it felt like I had a golf ball up my vagina. I had been using a tampon soaked in olive oil as a last ditch effort to find some comfort.

Along about January, I decided to take firm action. I went back to intense yoga three times a week, changed my diet, kept in the posture and continued to strengthen my pelvic muscles through constant posture and exercise. I often sit on a table in the posture pull my legs up straight and perpendicular to my torso, stretch my arms straight over my head, pull up at the rib cage, balance on as little flesh as I can and hold for as long as five minutes. Tighten everything and hold, hold, hold.

Today I am pretty much back to normal. The bladder prolapse is a level one, I rarely if ever feel the rectocele, and I can do just about anything without that horrible feeling of "balls!" I have no bad days. Every day is a good day.

I feel great. I'm in good shape, my abs are strong, and although I still use the tampon soaked in olive oil, I can go without. I'm a mezomorph, so I need a very intense and difficult exercise program. Ordinary exercise won't do it for my body type.

I think the determination of helping myself do the necessary things it takes to overcome this thing is the key to success. There is no way I would ever ever ever submit to surgery for any reason at all ever, so I had to do something else.

I studied my diet. I've found that bread is a real nuisance to the rectocele.
I've found that a half gallon of lemon water every day is the answer to many difficult body issues. I drink it by the pint and call these drinks "foggy bottoms." Drink four of these a day.

I've found that eating lighter meals is key to good digestion.

I've found that difficult exercise with a focus on the abdominal muscles helps me keep the posture while it has allowed everything to kind of return to place. But ab exercises must be done while kageling. I have developed the ab muscles well enough to be able to do a dozen kinds of kagels using many different muscles. No, kagels won't do anything, but they do keep things in place while exercising. When I first started, I could only do a baby kagel. Now I can tighten and flex all kinds of muscles. I thought I was in good shape and now I know I wasn't. Still working on it.

I'm writing this as an encouragement to anyone who reads this. It's not a miracle, it's a work in progress. As a fifty eight year old woman, I am proof positive that diet and exercise and posture truly truly work. Listen to Christine. She is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING.

It takes a LOT of work and a lot of will power, but it's so worth it.

Affectionately,

Judy
PS - published a book in January called Porkchops. Yeah!

goldfinch1

May 26, 2009 - 5:17am

Hey Judy:

It's so good to hear from you - I for one have missed reading your posts. I don't have a lot of time now - getting ready to go back to work after the long weekend, but I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your success with us, and also congratulations! You are proof that with willpower, resolve, and Christine's work, prolapse does not run our lives. And also contrats on your new book! I can't wait to get my copy the next time I'm at the bookstore!

Always, Goldfinch

nk00300

June 20, 2009 - 9:10pm

Judy,

I'm relatively new to the site, and have been looking for advice on how to live more comfortably with my enterocele/cystocele/rectocele. Your post was extremely helpful and hopeful. I'm sure we'd all love to hear more about the exercise program you have adopted.

Nancy

Devastated

June 29, 2009 - 3:09pm

Thank you!

clavicula

May 26, 2009 - 1:35am

amazing! :) Please keep posting here, we want to hear more about you!
Keep up the good work and come here more often and encourage ladies who are in pain and cannot take the next step towards healing!
What kind of yoga are you doing?
Liv

bad_mirror

May 26, 2009 - 1:32pm

I mean wow, WOW, WOW!!!!! Thank you so much for the positive report. So many here, myself included, just adore hearing about results such as yours. I believe in this already, and you bolster my faith in the body's ability to heal if given the right "tools". Thank you, Judy.

Clonmacnoise

May 26, 2009 - 8:05pm

Dear Ones,

Thanks so much for your support. It's not easy to embrace this kind of body failure. I kept thinking it would go away - like a sprain or a cold or something, but it doesn't. So...to change an old quote to a new one,"I don't necessarily need to have my body 'back,' I just need to feel as if it is." That's the premise - now let's go do something about it.

My life is filled with children; I own and operate a school for very young children. I have eight employees, and I am often on my feet 12 hours a day on cement floors. In summer, I take our children on field trips out of state, so you can guess that I am busy and active all the time. So not having "balls" is a must.

Last winter, I discovered that a calcium supplement was causing my body to experience a really bad arthritis symptom. Every bone ached, and just getting out of a chair was beginning to be a problem. I have a very strange inability to take anything medicinal or supplemental because of a weird metabolism, so I try to overkill the diet. The "foggy bottoms" have as much lemon juice as you can stand. A whole lemon cut up would be great. You could actually re-use the lemon. I use juice - about 3-4 tablespoons. That's my extra vitamin C ;-)

As for the exercise, I do hot yoga - the studio is 101 degrees and the workout is 1.5 hours. It's enhanced Bikrum. At home I do a lot of stretching. A good car exercise (when not driving- duh) is to reach back over your head toward the back window and spread your fingers out as far as you can. While you are reaching, tighten all your abs and lift your feet off the floor. Hold, hold, hold.

While sitting at your desk, raise your feet off the floor and hold, hold, hold and tighten, tighten, tighten, lift, lift, lift, and do it with knees together and apart. I can do this at church through all the readings and homily. Never let your back touch the back of a chair. Always sit in posture. I use a hard rocker of an evening.

Reaching up and taking "the load" off often will make you feel lighter. That collapse into our bodies is destructive. Watch a child. They are light, airy and walk softly. As adults, we tend to begin to pound the floor rather than trip it. Walk lightly using your shoulders and back as support. Try not to let the pelvic cavity carry your load. Let your rib cage and back bone carry the weight it was meant to carry. Use your head and neck like a swan.

One really powerful exercise is to stand with straight legs 3-4 feet apart and bend at the hip with a straight back. Then relax everything. Then tighten and kegal and pull everything back where it belongs. After a couple of weeks of this it will feel much different, and you will notice that there is progress.

I now do a leg lift that begins on my back. I lift both legs up off the ground and then roll up so that my feet eventually touch the floor behind my head. Do NOT bear down with this. Contain the pelvic cavity with a tighten - especially the bottom. Bottom gripping really helps the posture. I only do what I feel like doing, but as a mezomorph, I often feel like exercising. As a hyperactive, I need to constantly move, even at my age.

I eat nearly everything, but have found wheat products are annoying. So there are many days when I don't eat any bread or pasta. Less Ismore is my hero! I try to eat few potatoes no white rice, and if I'm going to have a treat, I eat it very slowly. I drink lots of green tea and my favorite mint tea. I use red clover and black cohash and stinging nettles.

That's all I can think of now.

Goldfinch - The book is available through Amazon. Look for Porkchops. I can't use my name here because it invariably ends up on the internet and that's a no.

God Bless,

Judy

mommynow

May 27, 2009 - 7:02pm

I did not think it was going to take this long for my prolapse to improve. I found this site about 3 years ago and I have had another baby in that time. I am still not at the point where I can say I am living well at all. I have not bought the new book or the diet book. I am saving money for it. I thought I had the posture right but why am I not improving then? My prolapse has not changed either. It is just inside the vagina (rectocele and cystocele). I still can't tell what foods make it worse. It seems like it will be better for a couple weeks and then all of a sudden it is bad again and by lunch time I feel so heavy in the stomach and down there. One thing I really don't understand is that when I am walking the prolapse doesn't bother me as much but standing still is really uncomfortable??? I wish I could gain some insight from those of you living well and I have read a lot of your posts.

louiseds

May 29, 2009 - 1:16am

Hi Mommynow

I can see that you are pretty p***ed off, and I can understand that. You have done so many posts over that three years. It is not easy to track any Member's story frm the beginning, up to the present time.

Would you like to go back to the beginning again and see if we can offer suggestions? You have told us that:-

you have a rectocele and cystocele sitting just inside the entrance of the vagina and,

that you feel OK first thing in the morning but get real heaviness in the vulva and the abdomen by lunchtime and,

your prolapses haven't changed since you joined and

that it will improve for a few days then go back to the previous state and

walking is OK, but extended standing is not OK.

Questions.

How old is your youngest baby now?
Can you describe what you do to get your body into WW posture, ie what body parts do you concentrate on, and what do you do with them?
Have you tried firebreathing?
Have you tried nauli?
Have you tried any other techniques?
Do you do the ballet workout?
Do you do the first DVD exercises?
What other forms of exercise have you tried, and with what results?
Are there tasks that really aggravate your POPs?
Are these identifiable as morning or afternoon tasks?
What is your measuring stick for 'living well'?

Cheers

Louise

mommynow

May 31, 2009 - 6:57pm

Thank you for your response ladies. I am ticked off but not at anyone just at the fact that I am still struggling with this! It is very frustrating. I would not say that I am disabled though since I can walk even if it gets uncomfortable. I can still do it!

How old is your youngest baby now?

19 months

Can you describe what you do to get your body into WW posture, ie what body parts do you concentrate on, and what do you do with them?

I focus now on raising my chest and keeping my shoulders down and the back of my neck elongated. I used to focus on my stomach too much and then learned that I was missing the whole upper body part.

Have you tried firebreathing?

I tried it once and apparently I was doing it wrong because my cystocele felt worse after. I haven't tried since. I went by the description that Christine gave on the site before she wrote her new book.

Have you tried nauli?

yes I can do nauli but it doesn't seem to have any lasting effect.

Have you tried any other techniques?

yoga - only the poses like downward dog that put the body in the right position

Do you do the ballet workout?

I don't have the second book yet. I did not notice improvement after the exercises in the first book so I kind of lost faith.

Do you do the first DVD exercises?

I used to.

What other forms of exercise have you tried, and with what results?

Walking - I don't feel any difference after, eliptical - I don't feel any difference after but I can do both these for a certain period and still be comfortable. it is standing still that is so uncomfortable.

Are there tasks that really aggravate your POPs?

standing still, lifting my girls or anything heavy, if I am on my feet longer than an hour, eating just don't know what but my stomach is always bloated. i have been to a nutritionist for a long time trying to figure out what is going on. not eating dairy or wheat. I have a heaviness in my stomach and it makes the prolapse feel worse, mostly the rectocele.

Are these identifiable as morning or afternoon tasks?

no it is just time that I can identify. as time goes on

What is your measuring stick for 'living well'?
i wanted to be able to carry by babies around and walk the halls with them, comforting them, pick them up when they want cuddles and carry them on my hip but I immediately feel more pressure when lifting them. that is not living well to me as i dreamed my whole life to be a mom and that is what my dream included to nurture in that way. plus I want to be able to stand to prepare meals or wash the dishes and not feel heavy. that is not living well or stand in the backyard and watch my kids play and interact not have to keep sitting to get rid of the discomfort. If I could hold my daughter for an hour without feeling discomfort that would be living well to me. If I could be on my feel all morning at the zoo or something without feeling discomfort that would be living well for me. oh if I could do something like get groceries without wearing the v2 supporter that would be living well since that thing is not comfortable. I don't need to go on vacations, have lots of money, drive a fancy car or have a big house but living well to me would be participating in my children's lives - carrying them, running around, jumping, playing and walking with them without being uncomfortable.

louiseds

June 1, 2009 - 2:40am

Hi Mommynow

Re posture, knees slightly bent, ie not locked straight? I think you are right. The upper body is what adjusts the lower body. Remember to leave your lower belly relaxed, so your pelvic organs have room to move forwards over the pubic bone.

Re firebreathing, I don't do it. Somebody else may be able to help you on that.

Re the first edition ballet exercises. Many women find the plies and releves very helpful, as long as they are done in WW posture. The anatomical reasons for this are in the second edition.

I think the stomach bloating might be part of the problem. I would be concentrating on 'detectiving' this. Naturopath?

You say that walking is not as much of a problem as standing, this probably has anatomical reasons related to the fact that walking in itself exercises the pelvic floor, and moves the weight around. Even just moving around a little will mobilise all those internal muscles that are doing very little when you stand.

In the meantime, be aware that your babies are babies no longer. They are probably very capable of doing a fair bit of climbing up to you, and you can get down to them. If you can accept that you don't have to do a lot of that lifting, you may find that your POPs can cope better with what you have to do. Accepting that your body does not currently like lifting heavy little people, and that lifting them doesn't necessarily make you a better mummy to them, might help you to deal with some of the resentment I am hearing in your voice. I know these suggestions don't actively solve the problems you are experiencing, but try to remember that simply changing our attitude, changing the angle of view can lead to seeing the same difficulties in a different light.

L

ps, I wouldn't want to stand for an hour holding a nineteen month old, POPs or not!!

mommynow

June 6, 2009 - 6:09pm

I appreciate your reply Louise. Today at the grocery store I focused on keeping my feet pointing straight. My knees lock so easily but I think I've worked on that quite a bit.

I will look into getting the second book.

I am going to a naturopath sometime in the future for something else so hopefully she can help me with the stomach bloating. I have seen nutritionist and homeopath and neither has helped so far.

I am having a hard time overcoming the fact that i couldn't lift my babies when they were little. Even that was uncomfortable. It wasn't necessarily lifting them but standing at all was horrible so I couldn't walk the baby and comfort that way and both my babies were colicky so that is what they wanted. Thankfully I have a very supportive husband but I will always mourn the fact that I couldn't wear my babies like I hear so many moms on here talking about. Even now my baby is only 20lbs at 18 months old. Unlike you I would want to carry her and wear her like the other mom's want to. I totally understand what you say about changing attitudes etc. but it is easy for me to know that and not to do it.

Clonmacnoise

May 27, 2009 - 10:57pm

Mommynow,

You are just where I was a year ago. Prolapses heavy at the vaginal opening. Driving me crazy, and worse when I stood. They actually hurt.

I really had to do something, and the tampon did the initial trick. It kept everything "up tight out of sight." I roll the exposed Playtex sports tampon in light olive oil and then reinsert it in the applicator and then I use it lying down and aiming it back toward my spine. It stays up because I don't have a fallen cervix. The olive oil allows the tampon to be comfortable and it makes the tampon easy to remove.

I tried the sponge and it was like inserting broken glass. I can't see how a sponge or any washable plug is as sanitary as a use once throw away tampon.

Once you FEEL like normal, you can begin the work of BEING normal. I found the hanging prolapses so distracting, that I was in no mood for anything. This really helped. It makes the difference between being preoccupied with your body and preoccupied with the world. The posture becomes a breeze when you FEEL normal.

Lots of people would argue that a tampon is not safe, but there is nothing there to cause it to be unsafe. You can eat olive oil, but you can't eat KY or other things normally recommended. Also, I've begun to use the olive oil on my face, and I prefer it to any lotion I've ever used because there is no wax feeling and the oil is absorbed into my skin in less than ten minutes/ I'm sure that's what's happening in the vagina.

Just my two cents worth.

Judy

mommynow

June 6, 2009 - 6:11pm

Thank you Judy for that idea. It actually does help more than a pessary for me. Going to experiment more with it and see how it helps.....

Christine

May 28, 2009 - 1:01pm

Hi Mommynow,

I'm so sorry to hear that you're still struggling! Your story always tugged on my heartstrings and seemed the perfect example of serious maternal injury from instrumental childbirth.

I keep hope in my heart that you will see improvement over time, but there is also the very real possibility that you will end up with life-long symptoms.

Disabilities are not the end of the world, but can force us to open to life in ways we never dreamed.

I am praying for the Heavens to ease your discomfort.

{{{{{{hugs, Mommynow}}}}}}

Christine

fruitful womb

June 1, 2009 - 12:35am

How old is your youngest baby now?

32 days old

Can you describe what you do to get your body into WW posture, ie what body parts do you concentrate on, and what do you do with them?

Stick my but out, lol stand tall, and walk light.

Have you tried firebreathing?

Yes, kind of, but not sure if I'm doing them correctly. Breath out while sucking my organs up... right?

Have you tried nauli?

Yes, and CAN'T do it! Dad-gum-it.

Have you tried any other techniques?

Suck in while I reach my toes. And then I cupp my bladder in my hands on my belly to move it forward. Do this before I void on the potty.

Do you do the ballet workout?

No. Been wanting to get my 4yr old daughter in ballet classes.

Do you do the first DVD exercises?

Did after the last pregnancy (baby #4). Lost it during the move. Then got pregnant agian. Going to buy the new one soon.

What other forms of exercise have you tried, and with what results?

Swimming & Walking. I really want to some yoga. The instructer I spoke to knows about POP. Maybe she can advise me on what helps and what doesn't.

Are there tasks that really aggravate your POPs?

Carmel Machiotos (starbucks)TASKS? right now? prolong activity on my feet.

Are these identifiable as morning or afternoon tasks?

Afternoon. Mornings are great. Everything stays in, until gravity pays its visit.

What is your measuring stick for 'living well'?

When I'm not noticing my POP while being involved with my children. & When I'm productive around the house and POP isn't effecting me.

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