does this look like prolapse ?

Hi Hopeful

I am assuming you posted this for the right reasons. It is no place for those without broad minds.

But seriously, porn does have uses! I don't think there is any prolapse. The rugae on the posterior wall are certainly showing just inside the entrance to the vagina but there does not appear to be any bulging, which I would expect from a rectocele, as she is close to climaxing, and bearing down is a normal part of high sexual arousal. Bearing down would uncover any posterior vaginal wall prolapse immediately. The presence of her hand would probably push back any anterior wall bulging unless it was major.

The other factor is that she is on her back anyway, with her legs splayed, which would flatten the sacrum and allow any organs to make an appearance if they had the ability to do so.

I don't think she is particularly worried about it, so we have no cause for concern.

Geez, that was hard to type with a straight face!

Cheers

Louise

no i havent looked at the link and have no intentions of doing so..it a pity that someone has degraded this site by adding that link addy..im not impressed neither i think will other members be...

I like to think I’m broad minded but personally, this stuff makes me gag. I never understood the attraction of porn, but then I think it’s mainly a male pursuit. I couldn’t get the movie to run - maybe because of our firewall. Just clicking onto the site, though, makes me hope I didn’t create a lot more junk mail for myself, which I really don’t need.

If members think it’s instructive I’ll leave it, if not I’ll take it down.

Christine

If this is sincere, certainly there should be more clinical photographs that could be linked to for reference. But PORN? Google images should suffice.

Oh, and Louise--you crack me UP!

I didn't click on the link for a number of reasons, mostly since just the url made me blush so thats a sign I don't need to see it.

unfortunately the more clinical photos aren't always useful either. so I don't know how a girl's supposed to find informative and yet tasteful photos.

and I agree, louise, you crack me up!

oh well I had to wait for supervision for my kids to check it out and then of course it didn't work. Go figure the universe doesn't want me to watch porn....Hey I found some prolapses on http://1001vaginas.com/

this is there purpose statement;
Our purpose for creating this site is to allow people to see vaginas in many different forms WITHOUT being subject to any unnecessary subject matter such as sex pictures
We feel this is a necessary and important adult documentary because there are thousands of companies that try to portray the modern female and the imagery of the vagina for something it is not in reality. Hopefully we can dispel some myths about the vagina and natural variations of it. In addition, we also hope to show that that picture angle and the position of the woman can cause different illusions and distortions. The truth should be known -- Vaginas come in many different sizes, shapes, and colors. All of them are normal and functional human variations.

warning: if you don't want your kids seeing pictures of vaginas you will want to do this later-the home page does not have any photos on it and you can select to see only one photo at a time (I think)

check it out and tell us what # you think might have a prolapse....or not:)

and one last thing- Hopeful83 don't feel bad for posting the link. people who don't want to see it won't look at it:)
Christine - you could just go in and rename the link it will hide the actual URL and you can name it something like "click me if you don't mind seeing porn in the name of science"

I did not see the link but Louise's comment made my day! lol

Alemama and Hopeful, In spite of the number of images I couldn't really see any that looked prolapsey. It looked to me as if they were simply showing some of the variety that is out there in the land where women want to show their whatsits to the world. Where were all the real women? (I am not seriously expecting Alemama to answer this question.) These women are all pretty slim and young. Not a grey pube in sight!

Even I could probably put on a pretty neat pair of lips for the camera, in another universe. Now there is a scarey thought!

I think we can get a bit hung up on appearance. After all we all wear knickers or other method of concealment most of the time.

It is primarily the *sensation* of prolapse that brings us here (or to the gyno's waiting room), and the secondary *big fear* that everything might falling out sooner or later. What it looks like on the outside is largely irrelevant to me.

The clinical pictures are no better because they are all lying on their backs, some anaesthetised and mid-surgery, and specifically designed to illustrate prolapse during medical examination, specifically for the camera, and usually for the purposes of discussing/promoting surgery, not discussing our everyday bipedal lifestyle. I have *never been able to find* an image of a pelvic organ showing on a standing woman. Prolapse is usually only detectable when we are vertical, so why are all the images illustrating POP using horizontal models???????

Could it be because it is not possible to take a photograph of a protruding bladder or uterus, because they cannot protrude far enough to see and photograph, unless the woman is immediately postpartum?

This question is not meant to debunk or offend anybody who has described their pelvic organs descending past the introitus, but to question how far out they can actually come without some sort of traumatic event and lack of aftercare.

Rant over!

Louise

Thanks Alemama. I've just looked at quite a lot of the images and can see that they may be reassuring to young or inexperienced women who think that their vagina isn't normal. I agree with Louise's comments, especially that we're all here because of sensation of prolapse but I think that it might be reassuring for women with POP to see that not all things that look squishy and bulgey near the introitus are necessarily part of the proplapse issue and therefore not in danger of imminent escape from the body. I think that tears and cuts in childbirth may leave skin tags and bulgey bits too, don't know, does anyone else? Judith xx

Yeah, I have had a little sausage about 15mm long and 6mm in diameter in the side of my vagina about 2 knuckles in. I discovered after my first pregnancy. I suspect it is a leftover bit of tissue from the cutting and suturing of my episiotomy. I think I will get in touch with the hospital where I delivered and find out how extensive my epi was. It seems to be very high up but I guess when the vagina is stretched really big across and with little depth a little episiotomy can end up being very deep once the vagina goes long and thin again.

Cheers

Louise

pearlnecklace

i checked it out and deffinately did not see any damaged or prolapsed goods....i myself have a little tear that did not heal all the way when stitched up...i thought i might see someone else with that but for the most part they all looked intact. Maybe if they werent pulling on themselves so much....i could make out what im looking at..oh well
I doubt any of these woman JUST had a baby...i cant see my prolapse anymore from the outside like i could when i first found it

Whoa! You leave this Forum for a few days and you never know what might pop up when you return. I am not a huge fan of porn, but I am not offended by it. I would never go looking for porn, but, hey, if it comes to me..well, I'm gonna have a look! lol!

~Mae ( 3 time grandma, but some things never change!)

http://1001vaginas.com/80.html
bottom right

http://1001vaginas.com/60.html top right- maybe rectocele? and this one is bending over too-

http://1001vaginas.com/60.html- bottom left
and top right looks like a 2nd degree tear to me...

I don't know- maybe it's a hymenal remnant that I am seeing- but I kinda doubt it.

and Louise I saw some grey :)

i somehow missed those shots....the top right does look like a tear the rest i cant tell because it wont blow up bigger for me to see on my lap top

~Amanda

OK Alemama, so I missed some grey! Ya gotta understand that for women of a certain age, sometimes looking too hard is depressing!

L

The limitless demand for pornography has hurt and killed more women than all of the surgery for prolapse ever done.

I encourage you to visit the website of CaptiveDaughters.com. Captive Daughters is a non-profit organization committed to ending the exploitative practice of sex trafficking, with a particular focus on girls and women.

There new book: Pornography: Driving the Demand for International Sex Trafficking may be of interest to if you believe that that what someone does in private with regard to pornography is nobody else's concern.

In fact, the demand for porn results in the kidnapping of girls, teens, and women every day in all parts of the world, even the United States.

Use google to find out more about:

sex trafficking,
child sex trafficking

Visit the fistulafoundation.org website to find out how you can help women suffering the results of sexual violence:

http://www.fistulafoundation.org/aboutfistula/

Here is another great site about human trafficking:

http://www.polarisproject.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

Christine: No serious medical websites (especially one that advocates for women) would allow a porn link to remain. This is one of the constant spam problems that most webmasters get rid of immediately.

In addition, you are confusing Google in regard to your rankings. If you link out to porn you will find that it is damaging to your organic rankings. I know you do paid search - but can you afford to hurt your natural ranking?

I know you do paid search - but can you afford to hurt your natural ranking?

what does that mean? I think I understand the google ranking deal but not the paid search thing.

Interesting to hear your perspective. Not sure about serious medical websites- I don't think I have ever seen a forum on one of those- I hear what you are saying though.
Since it won't hurt to take it down and it might hurt to leave it up - let's scrap it.

Thanks for your very thought-provoking post Leona, and the links in it. We do indeed have to look at all sides of the coin when it comes to images of women, because some are made for the express purpose of sexual titillation, and a girl or woman may have been exploited in the making of them. Some sexual porn images are also made by women themselves for the their own (usually sexual) reasons. Maybe that is self-exploitation.

Yes, the porn industry worldwide is an enormous source of suffering and death for the women involved, and pelvic repair surgery does not kill people, though it *can, and often enough does* ruin lives and cause an awful lot of damage and suffering to women. But there are very few accessible images of the type the Member describes that do not come from porn sources and she certainly did not post it for purposes of titillation and financial reward. Therein lies the dilemma. There are no legit images available of what we Members want to see. "Somebody" decided in the name of public morality that neither sex fiends nor interested individuals should be allowed to legitimately view women's genitals for any reason. That is why there is a price to be paid for them on porn sites!!!

Porn is, in a simplistic way, simply a logical, if malevolent, response to that value judgement. The only exception to that is the medical fraternity. Why should they be singled out for the privilege of having legitimate reasons to view women's genitals? We all have them.

As for serious medical sites linking to porn, they don't have to put porn links up. They just make their own, which I find much more offensive than straight porn! As well as showing women's sexual parts these images also show the process of genital mutilation for what I consider to be dubious ends, one of which is, IMHO, exploiting women for financial benefit. At least the women have given consent, some better informed than others. I am not trying to be contrary here, just pointing out that it just depends on what you consider to be pornographic and what you consider to be legitimate information. I am not asking for these legitimate images to be removed. They are a salutory reminder of the seriousness of the decision to undergo pelvic repair surgery.

I didn't know about the Google rankings, and thankyou for demonstrating that unfortunate effect. Perhaps we should edit the post again, so that the reader needs to email somebody to get the link. I stand by women's 'right to know'. The assumption that Google would be currently making sounds like another form of censorship to me; the interpretation that a link that allows a user to view a woman's genital area for purposes of understanding female body structure is in some way bad. I guess we just have to take the good with the bad re Google.

Had Google (the great self-appointed arbiter of public acceptability and popularity, and what they think we want to link to, NOT!) been around when surgeons (and even artists like the great Leonardo da Vinci) were buying corpses, sometimes fresh from a desecrated grave, in order to dissect them for the purposes of documenting human anatomy, no doubt they would have been put on the eternal noticeboard of black arts. Modern surgery would have been snuffed out at the start. Now there's a thought.

(BTW, I think you are mistaken when you say that Christine does paid research.) Sorry Leona, I misread your post.

Porn is a little like fire, invaluable in the right hands, but infinitely destructive in the wrong hands. Sorry this has been such an angry rant. I hope you are not offended by it. I wasn't offended by your post, but it did press some of my buttons! The topic has raised some very important points about being female in the modern world.

Cheers

Louise

I assume that everyone on this board absolutely deplores exploitation of women and violence and coercion used against them, surely that goes without saying. Some of us may be more naive than others about what's really out there, so thank you leona for the information. I also find the use of porn for innocent reasons (ours) not at all straightforward. Obviously, even by going to the site, we are indirectly supporting it, no doubt there's a big dilemma. I think that each individual can only make their own decision on that one and our own life philosophies will take the weight of our decisions in one direction or another. I was surprised to get porn pop-ups on the 10001 vaginas site but my view is basically that we are all here, not merely for innocent reasons, but for quite compelling health reasons, some of us really need more information or reassurance, and we can only do the best that we can in a very imperfect world. Frank photos (as opposed to totally useless info diagrams) of "normal" and "pathological" female anatomy seem to be impossible to find and so we're going for the next best thing. Clearly we all have different sensibilities here, and it's a great shame if some people find anything on here offensive, but I guess, because of the nature of the subject, that's bound to happen sometimes. Some posts probably have way too much TMI for some members. As I said before, I really think that it is up to Christine whether or not such a link should be on the site in the first place. My vote would be to keep it, because we are using it innocently and even if only one member is reassured that she isn't a mutant, that makes it worthwhile for me. The link is embedded in a post, none of the material is actually on show, the surrounding posts make it very clear what the nature of the material is so no-one is forced to see it or is going to do so without prior knowledge of the content.
I had an ides, but am a bit terrified of being shot down for it. One possible solution to this matter is (wince) that we have space to post our own photos, moderated naturally, totally anonymously, with helpful labels eg cystocele at introitus, post-partum or age 64 or whatever. apprehensively yours Judith xxx
best wishes Judith

Gee, thanks, kind women.

I believe in sharing and caring. It was only this afternoon that I was talking to a young man in the local IT shop (who must have been about 8 years old when I last saw him at the school tuckshop) where I was browsing for a new mouse. He asked me if I stayed up late at night, playing competitive games online. I looked at him coyly, and said in the nicest voice possible, "No I don't play competitive games. You don't *want* to know what I get up to late at night in front of my computer!"

Not sure what he is thinking now. It's 10.30pm, and the night is but a pup ...

Judith, we did have a similar conversation a couple of years back about mounting a gallery of POPs. As an amateur geek photographer, I am thinking about easy ways of doing effective lighting, and setting up a tripod, and choice of lens so we don't get the 'swollen cheeks' look for our pretty vulvas. I would want good control over all of that. Not for me trusting it to a point and shoot digi cam.

Unfortunately, that means getting out my film camera, and that means taking a film to the Lab for processing, and trying to explain to the policeman when I go back to collect the film, why I have been taking pictures of pussies, and what am I going to do with them! I wuld just say in my best coy voice, "You don't *want* to know what I am going to do with them!"

Back to Plan#2!

The short answer is that nobody was forthcoming at the time with suitable images, and the website is not really designed to host it. However, I believe it is still on the shopping list for the next website makeover. It's not really the sort of stuff we could put on Flickr, is it? Maybe we'll just have to get those little Grandma's Brag Books and fill them with prints, and send them around the world by snail mail. Yikes! Then we would have to deal with Customs!

I'm off to bed now. Zzzzzz ...

Louise

I should totally publish a prolapse photo book! wouldn't that be fun-
has anyone seen the book called the faceless cesarian?
kind of like that but the faceless prolapse.

I could go around with my camera taking photos ( I bet I could get permission to do a survey and photos in an ob's office) and then all I have to do is find a publisher!

... yeah, sure! And get marched out the door.

Alemama, you are the limit! We could be really dangerous together if we didn't live on opposite sides of the planet.

Oh yeah. You might skip the publisher of "Chicken soup for the ...".

Cheers

L

Yes, I see your point Louise, drat. I'll have to come up with another idea for getting my 15 minutes of fame. Judith xx

if you have a digital camera all you would have to do is hook it up to your computer ...save them and then delete them off your camera..after that i dont know. Im not saying i think its the greatest idea to post pics but no one would know if you did it this way.....?

I feel a bit funny suggesting this only because I know I myself am too shy/private/prudish to share any of myself but for those who are interested, what about a private email list?

suppose someone offered to organize it. everyone who is interested could get an anonymous email addy and then email pics to the organizer who would then email all pics to all who have contributed. this way, no free rides, you only get to see the pics if you contribute and no one would know who you are. its not a huge sample, but its something.

and yeah, I'd skip the pro shots on film unless you have your own lab. that's alot of 'splainin to do, louise.

alemama, you had me spewing my tea at the screen. I can just see you innocently approaching a local OB's office, camera in tow. too funny.

I'll show you mine if you show mw yours - that takes me back a bit! Thanks granolamom for the creative thinking.
Yes, in principle, I'd be up for that. Possible drawbacks: it means ongoing work for one of the organisers and could we get good enough quality pics (Louise's point). But if there's support for the idea why not give it a go? Judith xx