Just wondering - aren't your vaginal walls suppose to move at all?

I think it must be normal to have movement. just depends on how much movement is considered normal. I think movement in the absence of feeling organ descent is normal- once you start feeling bladder or intestine then you know....

I agree with Alemama. And I think that a woman who has been pregnant will have a little residual looseness, regardless of how perfect the birth was, and how long ago it was. We also know that menopause will trigger further collapse of connective tissue all over the body. Sorry ladies, but that is a given. Fortunately it does happen to men too, so straightforward ageing is also a factor. It is the main reason why we eventually go all wrinkly on the outside (exacerbated by smoking and having fair skin that is in the sun too often during your life).

Our bodies all suffer wear and tear. From puberty the bladder moves down into the newly expanded pelvic area and the uterus grows. From then on the whole pelvic dynamic changes. Bearing down is a normal body response during birth, defaecation, sexual response, and perhaps menstruation at a subconscious level It is all about expelling. It is not an all day, everyday thing. from that point of view it is normal, but not normal, so I guess that wear and tear could be a factor, which would increase mobility of the vaginal walls.

As Christine has explained, the pelvic contents are like a bucket full of bags of jello. The vagina, uterus, bladder and bottom parts of the large intestine and rectum can move around reasonably freely in the pelvic cavity. Their freedom of movement over each other, separated by the 3D fascia is what gives them the resilience to survive monthly cycles, sexual coitus, pregnancy, 2nd stage labour, constipation, and the bladder emptying and filling, but it also puts them at risk *if* they are not carried and put under intraabdominal pressure in a configuration that protects their supporting fascial structure.

In WW posture the 90 degree angle between the vagina and the axis of the uterus protects the vaginal walls from intraabdominal pressure, which then acts at right angles to the vagina and pushes the vagina towards the boney support of the coccyx, rather than straight down the plughole, which happens when the pelvis becomes counternutated (tilted back as it is in a slouch position), ie you take your mal-trained personal trainer's advice and tuck your butt under and tummy in. See illustration in STWW, ed 2, Fig 2.9, p8.

Cheers

Louise

some movement must be normal with bearing down. Everything moves inside there. But I have no idea how mush is considered still normal.
But hey, it was told that nobody has any idea how much "settling down" is normal and what is prolapse...so maybe everybody has her own normal.
Clear as mud, huh?
Liv

I agree Liv. Normal is individual. Abnormal is when the degree of movement causes a problem, which we can feel at the vulva. Abnormal happens when there has been damage to the fascia or muscles themselves or when bearing down is chronic, eg non-WW posture with tucked butt and tummy, which means that every breath and every step that generates intraabdominal pressure will cause bearing down on the top of the vagina; or the repetitive and heavy bearing down that goes with trying to empty a bowel that is not working efficiently.

In WW posture I can almost bear down relentlessly, and the vaginal walls hardly move. Yet I could poke out my cervix for a gyn examination with very little bearing down.

The degree of movement you have is the degree of movement you have, whether normal or not. If it is a problem, and produces POP symptoms, then a woman needs to get more serious about Wholewoman work. I think all women need to take Wholewoman seriously, from puberty, to avoid the sort of problems we have all had.

If my mother had known about Wholewoman she would have dealt with my childhood constipation differently. If my first maternity hospital had known about Wholewoman they would have developed ways of supporting a labouring woman who had a heavy epidural, so that I could have opened my own birth canal and allowed gravity to assist in the birth of my first baby instead of stringing me up like a stranded cockroach with my feet in stirrups and extracting my baby by mutilation and forceps. If my school phys ed, dance and gymnastics instructors had known about Wholewoman, I would not have developed fixed, perfect posture. If my OHS teachers had known about Wholewoman they would have taught me to lift differently and I probably would have not suffered the disc and knee problems I have had. BTW the disc and knees give me virtually no trouble at all these days.

Sorry. Rant.

Louise