Blog worth reading on the importance of stretching

Hi Davina,

The blog was removed for reasons the moderators and I are still discussing.

Thank you respecting our decisions and actions.

Christine

Hi Davina

Yes, the Forums are public domain, but just cos it is public domain doesn't mean that Christine has to allow anyone to say or advise anyone else in any particular way on her website. I was in the middle of replying to her, after reading her Blog, when it was removed. C'est la vie. She may post again. Let's see. No hard feelings on my part.

In the name of freedom of thought, I have the Blog link bookmarked. Anyone who wants to look at it is free to email me for the link. I am not prepared to discuss it on the Forums, because I don't think it is a particularly useful resource, with errors, stuff we already know, and very confusing and long-winded passages of text. If people do want to discuss it they might have to find somewhere else to do it, or discuss it by private email. You could always go to the Blog itself and leave some comments there. That's what blogs are for. We Mods work voluntarily, so we don't want to spend our lives being the POP police. There is more important work to be done.

Has Christine successfully chased away SunnyKristina, Jacqui, Jackie, Fairmaiden and others? Did each of them tell you this?

Louise

You can add me to the list of women that Christine has run off. I find her comments rude and condescending. I only come to this site now and then to see what other women with POP are doing to help their condition. Since Christine feels she is the ONLY one who has found the answer to POP, her comments are always so anti anything but her work, I don't find them helpful in the least. I continue to try the WW techniques, but I have seen no improvement. I did buy the book and DVD so I do know what I am doing. I really feel as time goes along, whatever improvement a women sees in her POP is coming from her body healing itself, not from any special posture or exercises thought up by Christine. Another question, since Christine has been pushing these WW techniques for 10 years, don't you think by now the rest of the medical community would be on board if this was the only help for POP? I have a hard time believing all our doctors around the world wouldn't be signing on to help get the word out, if nothing more than to get a cut of the profits that should be flowing in.

thank you, davi, for the complement. I've spent many years trying to learn to be tactful, those who know me from way back remember my nasty tongue : )

but anyway, yes, this is christine's site, and while I don't want to speak for her, I will share with anyone who's reading this, that christine is someone I find to be 100% through and through true to her beliefs. This is not about the money to be made, its about presenting what she believes to be true and ensuring that anyone who comes here gets that truth, undiluted and unadulterated. I know people get offended by the money-making aspect of this, and I don't even want to go there.
I'm flattered that you'd join a site started by me, but I'd never start my own site. I don't have the fire in me that christine does, nor the spine and stamina to stand up to threads like these.

and incase anyone cares, I personally found the blog confusing. I might go back and try the stretches she recommends when I am in a position to do so. I think it would have been more helpful if she would've just recommended the stretch rather than spam us with her blog. just my opinion.

davina,

since you've included me in your argument, i'll post a rebuttal.

first of all, the site is not in the public domain. it is our site and we own the content (look at the bottom of the page). we pay for the server, paid for the design, programming and maintenance.

second, christine is leading a movement, a movement to put women back in charge of their bodies and health, to put the surgeons who can only see prolapse through the surgical lens and who create horrific suffering for hundreds of thousands of women every year out of business. if you understand the nature of leadership, it is about putting a stake in the ground. it is about standing for something. if you have read christine's book, you know she has done her homework. she understands female anatomy better than most doctors. this gives her both the right and responsibility to put her stake in the ground and take the position she does.

putting a stake in the ground has a curious effect that true leaders know and accept. it polarizes. standing for something attracts like-minded people and repels those who don't, won't or can't subscribe to the leader's position. this thread is a classic example of this phenomenon. for the women who are driven away, we wish them well and the door will remain open for them if they choose to return.

as far as the impact on our business, the same principle applies. a business that purports to stand for something but gerrymanders that stance to make a few bucks will soon discover that its customers are smart enough to know that a business that does so stands for nothing except money. one of my marketing mentors once said, "i don't care if people love me or hate me. the only thing i can't tolerate is people being indifferent about me." this is a statement of leadership. it takes courage to take a stand. it takes a willingness to alienate those people with different opinions or who are too closed minded to recognize truth when then see it. connie54's comments notwithstanding, all you have to do is scroll through this forum to find hundreds of stories of women whose lives have been transformed. many, like connie were skeptical initially, but kept an open mind and later write in astonished by their results.

it is these women that have continued to bolster and reinforce christine's stake in the ground. and if she seems intransigent about her beliefs, you're right, she is. and for good reason. she is the final arbiter on this site of what will be useful to women with prolapse. she is the world's leading expert on the subject of non-surgical treatment for the condition. her book is the definitive text on the subject. when she makes a judgment call, it is worth paying attention to. if you don't agree, that's fine. no one is coercing you. but it's christine's sandbox. if you want to play here, etiquette requires that you play by christine's rules. if you want to go build your own sandbox, feel free. that's the beauty of the web. you will quickly discover, that between the spammers and the diversity of opinions that exist on any subject, you will wind up with a site that is a useless free for all unless you take a position yourself and attract those who are like-minded and chase away those who disagree with your position.

and regarding connie54's comment that if christine's work was so great why has the medical community not embraced it. her comment reflects a profound naiveté about both science and the medical industry. i suggest reading thomas kuhn's classic book the structure of scientific revolutions and you will understand better the byzantine social process that science is and how it is that in every generation, many scientists go to their graves firmly espousing theories that have been thoroughly disproved.

the business of medicine has sold us on the notion that they are benevolent caretakers of humanity. while the people in the system by in large are dedicated and committed caretakers, and for things like trauma, the system truly works miracles, the system itself is corrupt. when you understand the poisons the drug companies knowingly foist off on an trusting and unwitting public, the knowledge many medical practitioners have about the damage they do and continue doing because they have mortgages to pay and children to educate you realize the medical system is not a safe haven. it is a very dangerous place, especially for women. these industries take on a life of their own and ultimately corrupt those who lead them. look at tobacco. once it was an honorable business to be in. but as our knowledge grew of the damage tobacco does it was no longer honorable. yet given the size of the industry it took on a life of its own corrupting its leaders to the point where some years ago the nine presidents of the largest tobacco companies testified before congress lying through their teeth under oath on prime time television.

this reality is best characterized by a quote christine found in a contemporary gynecological text of a standing joke among gynecologists, "we take care of them when they're young and they take care of us when they are old." these people are well aware of the damage they do, but they are in business and can't afford to care. suggesting to a patient that she change her posture to change her prolapse is worth a few hundred dollars for a few office visits. forgoing surgery means a loss of what, $10,000-$20,000 or more in revenue? gynecology is a multi-billion dollar industry. do you think all these people are going to take up watercolor just because their work has largely become obsolete? no, it will take a generation or more for the social awareness to demand an end the gothic practices gynecologists subsist on.

and it will only happen because a few leaders had the courage to put a stake in the ground.

lanny

Hmm,

It was my physician that gave me the link to Christine's website.

I am forever grateful that I have found an option, as per Louise's Two Doors.

I choose the door that does not close behind me.

Thank you,

Oceanblue

Dear Women,

What this thread brought up for me is the profound difficulty women have with truth. I know that some women do not know how to tell the truth, while others make it a high priority to Always tell the truth. But collectively we have a problem with the truth, as our language reveals.

The terms “testament”, “testimonial”, and “testify” are Latin in origin and underscore the fact that a person could not stand up to tell the truth, nor be believed, unless they had testicles. This was not a minor double-standard, but a profound assassination of female character and spirit that was only formerly corrected very recently in our HIStory. To this day I believe it is very difficult for women to not only speak the truth, but to hear it.

A friend and I are beginning an organization called Grandmother Circle. The concept is that there are many organizational and institutional ways that prepare girls and young women for life, but nothing to help older women pick up the pieces of what for many of us has been a very difficult journey.

At the center of our model is the fact that women need to be supported by other women. We have all been deeply affected by a common cultural story that is extremely brutal at its roots. And it is time for women to tell the story. Our assumption is that there will be many different hues and colors, but the underlying theme will be the same for many women.

Half of our responsibility as sane older women is to gently (if bluntly) speak the truth. The other half is to be able to hear the truth.

Christine

What is the origin of the word testify?

It is first recorded in English in the late 14th century as testifie, having come from Late Latin testificare "to bear witness, proclaim". That word was formed from testi(s) "witness" and ficus "making". Testis comes from the Indo-European root trei- "three", with the sense of a "third person standing by (as a witness)".

There is a popular notion which suggests that Latin testis "witness" is related to testis "testicle", by the idea that a testicle "bears witness" of virility. This has not been proven, and some believe that testis "testicle" is actually related to Latin testa "pot, shell".

Words are so interesting. Christine's interpretation is one option. Sammy's is another. Words are all interconnected by the language that surrounds them and creates their story. I will take both, thanks. I think both origins are equally illuminating.

L

Wow, I’ve been away from my computer for a few days and what a discussion to return to!
I just think it’s good to remember about choice. We all have choice. We have choice as to which path we follow, choice as to what we believe, and choice as to whether we take opportunities to look at what we believe.

People will always say things we don’t like, and say things we don’t believe with. The way I look at it, I’m an adult, I can filter what I don’t like, contemplate those things that might stretch my beliefs, and see that I’m a richer person for having to think about it. Sometimes people will upset me—I’m sensitive, it happens all the time. But, I also have to learn to let go of things—if I didn’t, the world would be a very lonely place. I’m also quite alternative in my view of some things, so again, I get a lot of criticism for it. But I try to listen with open ears, decide what is right for me, and follow that path—knowing that I was yet again given a chance to really examine my own beliefs and decide for myself.

Christine has a very different system of beliefs to the mainstream medical community—that is why we are all here. For me she has changed my body and thus my life. I know enough about big business and mainstream medicine to know it will be a very long time before her beliefs will shift mainstream medicine. Look at things like Traditional Chinese Medicine—they are very old, proven, and yet still dismissed by Western Medicine—for all the reasons Lanny talks about. And yes, she will at times say things that push our beliefs quite hard, but my view is thank goodness she is willing to say it! Then it's my job to really think about it, and decide what I do with it. Christine has created a body of work and a community that is trying to shift our entire paradigm about how we view our bodies--wow what a job!!! If in order to do that she needs to ask me to end a discussion or says something I don't like, I might feel upset but I'll get over it, as I know it's about a bigger picture. it's about making change, not just for us but for 1000's of women to come. It's about creating a community that pushes at the very beliefs we are fed day in and day out--and thank goodness she's doing it, and thank goodness I found my way here.

It about choice.... I think we all need to remember we do have a choice here. We can stay and be part of this community, and support one another on a difficult path—which thankfully is what most women here are doing. I mean, why else would we be here if we didn't believe, or want to find change, and want to support those around us??? I know this community was especially vital to me especially in the early POP months when I thought the world would end. And it still is, as it’s a place to get ideas, share thoughts, let my insecurities out, and talk like I can’t to anyone else. But if we find this isn’t the place for us, we have a choice to find a community that is—and there will always be women who for whatever reason leave, some to return, some not. I just hope that those who leave take with them some of the wisdom of WW, and with that the changes that are possible. Some women have left feeling it wasn't working, only to return to say "I kept trying and it all finally clicked!" That gives me faith that everyone who leaves leaves with new wisdom in their bodies or at least, having had their minds stretched.