Relief of sensation but can physically still feel bulges

Submitted by youngconfused on September 21, 2009 - 8:28am
Body: 

Okay so i'm now 15 weeks post partum and after being diagnosed with a stage 1 cystocele and stage 1-2 rectocele a few weeks ago I fell into some form of depression but some of the members on here made me shift my focus in a more positive direction. Since then I have been seeing my accupuncturist weekly who has also put me on some lethal Chinese herbs. I must say I have felt so much relief from the sensation of things falling out and prob felt that the next day after seeing her. I was so amazed and felt so much more positive again! My question is....why can I still feel the bulges when I check in the shower??? Will the bulges start to retreat further back into the vagina...? If things start to plateau I think I'm going to book in to see my cranial osteo who has had a lot of success in fixing post partum prolapse and menopausal prolapse issues. It's internal and intrusive but I think it only compliments the WW practace but in a more internal structural method.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the osteo and also why I can still feel the bulges with my fingers yet the sensation has improved considerably...?
Thanks guys!! :)

louiseds

September 21, 2009 - 10:18am

Hi Youngconfused

When you feel under the shower are you feeling from the front, or twisting slightly and feeling from the back? It is quite difficult to feel from the front without getting out of posture. If you can feel from the back you will probably feel how the bulges change when you go in and out of posture.

Cheers

Louise

youngconfused

September 21, 2009 - 5:10pm

I'll try and check from back today and see if that makes a difference.... So for future, when you hear of stories of prolapse or symptoms of prolapse reversing or improving a lot, does that mean that tissue, wall if the vagina tighten up considerably and in fact disappear from it's lower position to revert upwards....? Or will the posture and workout and whatever other natural treatments we opt to use just minimise the symptoms as far as the sensation of something falling out or tampon not quite in properly. Have you heard of osteo being able to help rectify stage one prolapses? As a side note, my second post partum period proved to be a lot easier to keep my tampon in it's place moreso than my first. Still very painful though. OMG!! Pain felt like a labour contraction!!!

fc12

September 21, 2009 - 5:27pm

Just wondering, did you see your acupuncturist specifically for the prolapses? Did he/she give you treatment for those or for other things that relate to or impact on the prolapse? Also, do you have any idea what herbs you've been given?

I have an acupuncturist who does not seem to know much about prolapse but I don't know how to find one that does! I guess seeking one out that specialises in women's issues is probably a start.

Thanks, fc12

youngconfused

September 21, 2009 - 5:50pm

Hi fc12
my accupuncturist is an older Chinese lady who is also a lecturer at natural health college. She treats everything but I went to her especially for my prolapses after deciding the body will heal itself if I take the right steps. Treatment is targeted to the areas surrounding the prolapse and improves the chi/energy to help lift those tissues effected. It's a hard concept to understand or embrace but I suppose when you start to feel relief from symptoms, you stop questioning. I have been seeing this lady for years for other problems related to digestion, energy, muscle strains and neck/nerve issues as well as to help bring on labour naturally. I've experienced good results every time. But she is hardcore. I love it! The herbs are disgusting but I persevere. She has jars of all sorts of dry herbs that she combines depending on what she is treating. I then cook them fresh in water and drink morning and night for two days. I have no idea what the contents are but very targeted to prolapse. It's so common and Chinese medicine appreciates this so you should be able to find a traditional Chinese therapist who can specifically help you. I have gathered from some things she has said that your spleen effects prolapse and the energy that around those organs. One way of checking your spleen energy is to check your tongue. If it's white and pale with indentations on the sides you'll probably benefit from treatment for that especially which could very well have a good effect on prolapse symptoms.
Hope this has helped... :)

louiseds

September 21, 2009 - 9:37pm

Hi Youngconfused

Just picking up on a couple of your questions. Yes, the vaginal walls tighten up and revert upwards. Therefore the symptoms can ease or disappear. This is why.

When you get your body into Wholewoman posture it raises your ribcage and breasts, and your abdomen relaxes. This makes the thoracic curve of the spine flatter and the lumbar curve becomes a larger, gentler, more pronounced curve. In turn this allows the sacrum, and therefore the pelvis to tilt forwards slightly. The whole pelvic region actually rotates in space by several degrees and the pelvic organs flop forwards into the relaxed lower belly. The weight of the abdominal organs moving forward in front of the lumbar curve also reinforces this tilt. Their weight is carried by the pubic bones and the front abdominal wall as the pelvic floor changes to diagonal.

Simply put, the slope of the pelvic floor changes from sloping downwards from front to back, to sloping upwards from front to back. The pelvic organs literally slip forwards, down the slope of the pelvic floor and stop on the pubic bone, stabilised by the front abdominal wall which is suspended firmly from your raised ribcage. Because of the way the pelvic floor is anchored, and the way the sacroiliac joints are angled relative to each other, this tilting tightens the pelvic floor, which squeezes the vagina. If you use this large lumbar curve trick during coitus *your partner will notice the difference*. Ask him to do one grunt for tighter, two grunts for looser. I know the answer you will get!!!

The vagina also becomes longer because the weight of the uterus pulling the vaginal vault forward. It is no longer squashing down on itself. Of course the uterus and bladder move. The move forward and in further. It seems like they are moving up, but that is because forward is 'up'. Remember? You have rotated the whole pelvis in space. You can find out the whys and wherefores of the mechanics of this in Saving the Whole Woman. It is truly amazing.

The other little experiment you can do is to stand in a slouched position with your fingertips of one hand under your pubic bone and the fingertips of the other under the coccyx. Feel their position relative to each other. Which is higher? Now pull up into WW posture and feel their positions again. Which is now higher? You have just demonstrated to yourself the way the pelvic floor changes from horizontal to diagonal with WW posture. Sure, the pelvic floor is not a simple sheet of muscle anchored at front back and sides, but the weight movement is exactly the same. I am not saying that your normal posture is slouched but you can see how a slouched posture positions the pelvic organs on a downward slope. No wonder women end up with a saggy vagina! I wish I had known all this 25 years ago! Give the pelvic organs a bowl to sit in that has a firm pelvic floor at the back, pubic bones at the bottom and a strong, fibrous abdominal wall at the front and they will be much happier, in spite of the fact that their fascial supports are damaged.

I just wish that every physiotheraapist and doctor would do this exercise with their own body because it would show them once and for all where the pelvic floor is, and how posture is the main controller of the positions of the pelvic organs.

Sorry this has been a long and rather complicated explanation, but that's how it is. Keep asking questions.

Cheers

Louise

youngconfused

September 22, 2009 - 8:00am

Thanks so much Louise. That's a great explanation!!!

I have learnt that stance doing one on one pilates so understand the positioning changes the tilt can have.

So given I've had some relief from "symptoms" yet can still feel and see the bulges, does that mean the bulges are on the "mend" and on their way back into and up (or forward) in the vagina??? BTW I've had no bladder or bowel issues, just that tampon feeling...

Thanks so much for your responses. They are very helpful

louiseds

September 22, 2009 - 9:51am

Hi Youngconfused

My answer to that question is, "Probably." My experience has been that I got obvious improvement from day 1, enough to convince me that it was worth continuing with. It probably took a couple of years to settle into constant improvement. Then I overdid it for some weeks, and my previously crooked cervix centred itself and descended further, which felt a whole lot better, believe it or not. Now, two years later, my periods seem to have finished and my reproductive system has gone quiet, so I no longer get the monthly ups and downs. But the good news is that my POPs are better than they have been previously, and I only get the sensation of POP when I do something that requires me to tilt my pelvis back, in the presence of extra intraabdominal forces, like yesterday when I was up on a ladder drilling several holes inside a wardrobe, while standing in an awkward position. But I feel OK today.

So it can be a slow process to get to a stable state, and where you are in your life seems to have an effect too.

Nobody really knows that whether or not fascia can mend themselves. It is really symptom minimisation that I aim for, and having a life despite POP. If I have minimal symptoms I am not too concerned about the degree of damage that remains, cos I know I am actively positioning my pelvic organs.

Cheers

Louise

kiki

September 22, 2009 - 2:39pm

Just to add, that for a lot of us I think the sensations of POP go but if we go looking for the bulges, we find them--though for lots of women they are quite minimal. Mine are a ton smaller than they were, but they are there. So, I just don't go looking...
But it's a long process--I'm over 2 years PP and still finding improvements, so don't think there is an end point to the mending. Christine recently found huge improvements again with her anti inflamatory diet work....so again, there are so many things that can help.

youngconfused

September 23, 2009 - 7:35am

Thanks Louise. The point of life I'm in is 31 years old and still very active. Would love to get back into my interval training!! I have to be honest and say I haven't actually officially started the WW posture or workout yet. I have got it in the mail now and have a quick flick through the book. I have been practicing the posture based on what I have read in these forums, consciously worm gthroigh the pelvis region and keeping that lumbar curve in the right position. I haven't done anything to do with the work out though. The start of my acupuncture and herbs was when I first started to feel the relief of the "falling out" sensation. Not sure if it was 1) a coincidence; 2) due to my unofficial attempts at the posture; or 3) a combination of both....??
I suppose I have so many questions because at my age and the way I have treated my body just doesn't, in fairness terms, seem right so I'm searching for positive, hopeful considerations. Thank god for this website huh!!! :) Ive always been healthy and active and did EVERYTHING right during the pregnancy especially that I just feel at 31 I should have more hope in healing naturally.... Fingers (and bits) crossed. :)