I'm new

here's some of my story in a nutshell

-first birth was at age 27. tore badly, mostly anterior wall. HURT like nobody's business for MONTHS and dr told me I was fine

-found my cystocele when my third child was 18mo

-spent a year doing the posture thing and things started to improve

-got pg and had a fourth baby

-baby #4 is 15 mo and I am FINE
still have visible signs of prolapse but it rarely bothers me

so here's what I want you to know:

- 10 weeks pp is VERY EARLY. forget everything you think you know about '6 weeks postpartum'. it takes months to recover from childbirth, really a year imo. so go easy on yourself.
- things can and likely WILL change with time.
- you can maximize healing by learning posture, eating well, and by never never straining on the toilet
- DON'T GIVE UP HOPE OF FUTURE CHILDREN. It is possible, and future births will not necessarily make things worse. chances are most of the damage is already done.

re: the pain, I will always say 'check with your dr'
but after you do and get a clean bill of health, my guess is that the pain will subside with time and tlc. rest whenever you can, forget whatever you think you know about 'women who can do it all'. none of us can. if we do, well, something will give.

ahhhh, baby's up from nap

bubby06

Hi all, new to the forum,similiar story to Kath and also glad to have found women in the same position! I gave birth to my first child (gorgeous girl!) just over a year ago. Very long, horrible labour, was pushing on and off for over four hours, eventually forceps.Lots of stitches, lots of pain. Five weeks later, I discovered prolapse after feeling that not everything was right down there, but wasn't sure if this was normal or not as she is my first child. This was confirmed by consultant at the hosp, and i was sent to physio. I was given pelvic floor exercises to do, and i still do them but i don't feel they have made alot of difference. I was discharged after just 4 visits. One year on, I actually feel it has worsened. My daughter is much heavier to carry than she used to be, I am a teacher so i am constantly on my feet. I simply cannot heed the advice of not lifting heavy stuff etc. Like kath i am also devasted by what has happened. I feel like i am grieving for my pre baby body (although she is worth all of it!!)I am also young (34)and want to have more children. I have been told that further pregnancies could make it worse, and i should prepare for a c-section in the future. My sex life has been affected in the sense that i am aware that my husband can feel it, and intercourse sometimes can be painful but not every time. I am so bloody angry at what I am sure was a mishandled birth, and also at my own body for letting me down even though i know that this line of thinking is stupid. Im sorry kath if my story would make it seem as though there has been no improvement since my daughter was 10 wks old and now. There has been in the sense that i am no longer aware of it quite so much, and that I have learned to live with it.Hopefully, there are other ladies who can tell us that we will not always be so upset by it! P.S I am in the UK, could not find a similiar UK based site, anyone else a brit??

really only have a min, running out to the orthodontist..but

{{{{{hugs}}}}}

I was there too. its a pretty bad place to be.

please please don't give up yet. read through the faq's here
get the book (saving the whole woman by christine kent, get the second edition) if you can. its my bible.

anger, devastation, grief, all normal. really, I've been there.

just because you've seen no improvement doesn't mean you won't. up until now (I am assuming?) you've done only kegels to help the situation. bad news, kegels aren't the answer (you know that by now). good news, the are some answers here and in the book.

and I will keep on repeating myself....

YOU CAN HAVE MORE BABIES WITHOUT NECESSARILY WORSENING YOUR PROLAPSE

so mourn the loss of your cute & perfect vagina, but don't yet mourn the loss of the possibility of more babies. there is plenty of reason to remain hopeful.

ah, dd's waiting at the door for me....

will check in again later

I'm new here also (just joined tonight after reading your post). I have been visiting this site for around a year now and I too am from the uk, actually Scotland as I can't seem to find a forum relating to this problem.
Just reading your story is like looking back nearly axactly on my past year.
I too have a baby boy, now 13 months and absolutely gorgeous but unfortunately have pop and am sure it happened at birth. I have prolapsing uterus, rectocele, cyctocele and am sure my urethra too as my stream flow seems pretty slow and never seem to empty properly. I know, tmi but you soon get used to talking openly about it, we're all in the same boat. I use the cube pessary which does help but have some really bad days when all I want to do is hide and cry and some not so bad days. Like you have only 1 child but want more and was 37 at the birth of my son. NEVER even knew that this existed. Why is it all so hush hush............really frustrates me. The anger has passed, well most of the time and just would like to think I can have more kids but am thinking how could I when I have so much discomfort. Then will it make me worse and how bad will I be afterwards etc. Would be great to chat with someone about al these points and find out if its possible to come thru this and the best way forward.
I know how you feel bubby06, its not good but to talk and maybe help each other forward may be something good.
Glad to find someone from the uk here too. My period is the worst time for me as I cannot wear the pessary and so have no support, total nightmare. Have you heard to sea sponges and any good reports on people who wear them as I will try anything. Doctors have been a bit of a nightmare for me, so dismissive......
Speak to you soon, talking does help.......

hey Ladies! first get the book. second edition. Don't wait. just get it.
Then ck out the search function. bubbly 06 if you type the word sex in there you will get more than you bargained for. and redter I have found the Playtex sport tampons to be awesome during a period.
And last- search Nauli- this is a yogic type breathing that really helps me. Congratulations on your babies-

I didn't *know* about my prolapse until after my third birth- but hey- it was there after my first birth. I think if I had only had the one kiddo I probably would not have ever had symptoms enough to notice- man those second two kids are a blessing though and I wouldn't change it.
We are planning a pregnancy now- and I am excited to go through the pregnancy knowing what I do now and I anticipate that there will be no permanent damage (beyond what is there now) and that I will return to my symptom-free state sometime during that first year post partum.

So have more babies- and I'll go first- well not first- granolamom already did and so did fullofgrace- and I think some others.

Welcome to both of you. Both Alemama and Granolamom have given you very sound advice. STWW, edition 2 is my bible too. I have been here for four years now. I am 55, have had three vaginal births, the first of which was fully managed, ie birth on back, big epidural, forceps, big epi etc. Yes there was evidence of postpartum prolapse after the first, worsened by gross amounts of abdominal fluid during the first trimester of the second, resulting from infertility treatment. Gentle, active birth but Pelvic floor went to jelly because it had been stretched for a full nine months. Got that sorted with plhysiotherapy. The third, another gentle, active birth, did not worsen the POPs, but I still had stress incontinence after that (and have had it since childhood anyway). Fast forward. Twenty years later, a gradual worsening of symptoms in perimenopause and several years of asthma (now cured) then I found this site and have been improving ever since, except for 18 months ago when my uterus kind of straightened up and fell a bit more, but is now tucked away and nearly always a couple of centimetres inside my vagina. Very little stress incontinence, never wear pads. Rectocele sometimes bothers me when stressed, but I deal with it and it passes. No backache, still do active, quite heavy stuff at times, good sex life. My previously retroverted uterus has flopped forwards again into a more normal position, after all this time. Life goes on, and it's good.

How did I do it?
Meticulous use of posture, both sitting and when on my feet.
Subtle changes to lifestyle and how I get tasks done.
Clothing that doesn't compress my lower abdomen ... ever.
Attention to diet so I have sufficient water and fibre, as well as many raw foods.
Whole body exercise, rather than specific muscle-orientated programmes.
Thorough understanding of the principles behind female pelvic anatomy from Christine's book that has enabled me to use my body in slightly different ways, and to know how I need to amend things.

Bubby06, it is a heartbreaking discovery when you realise what has happened, and can send you into quite deep grief for what you perceive you have lost. Once you can understand how this body of yours is meant to work, and change the way you use it, you will start to improve slowly (with the odd setback) and realise that it's not all that bad. Once you use your female-engineered body in a more female way you will realise how much you can trust it to look after itself, and trust yourself to not expect it to do things in ways that it was never meant to do them.

There will no doubt be setbacks. We all have them, usually cos we overdo something and our organs come tumbling down again, or we have a period that inevitably worsens the symptoms. But you will get back to baseline again, usually in a few days. Patience is very useful here.

A lot of our suffering is in our heads, and a lot of the adjustments we have to make are in our heads. If you cannot make the head adjustments, some of your suffering will always be there.

No, you probably won't find any other sites like this one. That's because we are all here!!! :-) Most Members seem to be from the USA, some from Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, European countries and a smattering from some really out of the way places. Where we are doesn't seem to matter one bit. We are all women.

Why isn't there more said about it? I am afraid this world of ours is still getting used to the idea of advertising sanitary products on telly. There is so much guilt and shame attached to female bodies, and 'not perfect' bodies. Crazy, isn't it? It's all about the politics of beauty and desirability, IMO. Recognising it as the con that it is, is a good first step to loving your own body, as it is. I am sure that your husband loves you just as much now as he did before your babies (and prolapses) arrived. POPs are a kind of perverse trophy of motherhood, though all Mums don't get them (or do they?)

I am not my vagina. Neither are you.

Good sex is not about rubbing a penis with the walls of your vagina. There is a whooooole lot more to it than that. Get searching, and discover some more secrets. Sex does not end at 30, or 40, or 50, or whatever! BTW, you might benefit from talking with DH about how you feel about your body and ask DH what he thinks. If these guys are normal they will probably reply in one word with one syllable, that doesn't have any consonants, along the lines that is different but still good. This is just another stage of life where you can learn some more tricks and learn to use your sexual bodies with a bit more finesse and thought so you can keep enjoying it for your lifetimes.
Cheers

Louise

just realized I didn't say "hello" to you.
Welcome here- it gets much better. The pain you are feeling goes away. It takes a long time. After my tear it was 6 months before I could have sex without pain- and then another six months before I didn't have to think about it and how to position and be careful-
but the ache in the morning went away and turned into only and ache in the evening and gradually didn't ache at all unless I was on my feet all day- to now where the ache is gone except one day of my period.
you have so much time to heal. Rest as well as you can. Eat good foods. enjoy that baby-

/
Hi Alemama, congrats on the future bubba and thanks for the reply. We'de love to have another baby! Ihave grade 2 rectocele, cystocele and not sure uterine. What can I expect during a pregnancy with pop. Can it come out, is rectocele and cyctocele painfull, anything else I should know. This is whats making me think twice about another baby and we want another soooo much. How did ur pregnancies or anyone else thats out there pregnancies go. Is there a chance of losing the baby? All these thinkgs I want to be informed about as dr didn't say much.
Also I dont want to go down the surgery route at all but read somewhere that surgery works better sooner rather than later, when it worsens, on prolapse - is this true. /jeez, there are so many things I want to ask.......not the sort of thing you ask a stranger in the passing is it ...... thanks again for listening.

bubby06

Hi Ladies, thanks so much for your words of encouragement and advice, so much more understanding and informative than the doc's! Will def go out and buy the book and try out some of the advice. Actually feel far more positive since this time yesterday. Redter - you will not believe this, but i am also in Scotland, just outside Glasgow. We may have the NHS, but we had to go all the way to the US to find this forum! Our babies must be a very similiar age too, my daughter will be 13 months old next week.

Anyway, thanks again to you all for the help and kind words for us 'newbies' to prolapse. I will let you know how i am doing and hope you will all do the same.

not alemama, but thought I could answer some of your questions

my rectocele and cystocele are not painful, just annoying at their worst.
assuming you are otherwise healthy, a prolapse does not increase the chances of a miscarriage.
my pregnancy with prolapse was wonderful. in fact, the prolapse actually got smaller during the middle of the pg. towards the end I was somewhat uncomfortable, not sure if it was due to the POP or generalized pelvic swelling (which I get with all my pg's).

surgery better sooner than later? I doubt it. sounds like a scare tactic to me. if you read up on the surgical success rate, you will find that it very often has to be redone. so I'd push it off as long as possible (like forever!). the good thing about prolapse is that it is not life threatening. you can take as much time as you want to try alternative ways to manage it (such as wholewoman!) and always choose surgery later. once you have surgery, there is no going back. the techniques here are based on the assumption that you have all your pelvic organs, no scarring, no oddly shaped vagina due to surgery. those interventions actually prevent natural stabilization of prolapse.

read the book, it explains all of this in greater detail. or ask any other questions you might have.

Hi all. Not been here for a while now but am a bit concerned about my chances of becoming pregnant with another baby?? I have rectocele, cyctocele and uterine. My OBGYN says that I shouldn't have a problem as prolapse does not effect chances, he says my uterus is pretty high. Its just that, well I'm 38 and haven't really got loads of time ahead and was wondering if anyone has any advice. We have been trying now for few months, our first baby happened first time and I know thats not that common. Hope someone can give me some advice out there??
Thanks again to this forum.
xx

Hi Redter

Yes the story about POP getting worse if you don't have surgery quickly was given to me my GP at the time, when I was in perimenopause. I agree with Granolamom. I doubt it!

By the time I was diagnosed my organs was well and truly sagging. It *has* changed since then, ie my uterus has straightened up and come down a bit, but now my body had a centrally descended uterus to deal with everything moved higher up, rather than the uterus trying to come down beside my bladder, which it was before. Nothing has moved for about three years now. Having said that, I think it would have worsened, or at least felt much worse (and quite scared), had I not been confident that my body had the WW tools that I now have, to deal with it.

If I had the surgery that was recommended at the time, I would now have no uterus, my bladder would be stitched to my uterosacral ligament stumps, and my urethra supported by a tape, which would have meant an end to all heavy lifting and the physical garden work that I really enjoy. It would also have compromised my ability to use WW techniques to the fullest extent. I would have a scarred vagina (no thankyou!!) and would be hoping like crazy that it would all keep holding up, if one or other fix hadn't failed, or caused unmanageable side effects by now. It makes me shudder to think about it! If it was not so scary I would think it was hilarious! I just laugh at the idea of surgery these days. Any fear I had has simply evaporated. Life is too short (once you are the other side of fifty) to live in fear.

I am continually reminded of the Old Testament story about Abram and Sarai being chosen by God to start His family on earth. They were both given new names, Abraham and Sarah, and the gift of pregnancy when both of them were very old. Sarah's reaction to a pregnancy in old age? She laughed! No fear in that woman! I love hearing old women laughing. I hope I can laugh for decades yet.

Cheers

Louise

ps, even if I do suffer really serious prolapse symptoms, despite Wholewoman techniques, later in life and the pragmatic decision is to have some repairs as a last resort, I will do so knowing everything I have to know to go ahead without fear, and having had the intervening years as an energetic, physically capable and sexually active women, unscarred by unnecessary surgery. Can't see it, but you never know what life has up its sleeve to challenge us. Meanwhile, on with life!

I havent' come across anything pointing to prolapse adversely affecting your chances of getting pg. I've gotten pg twice since finding mine, and this one was a surprise. I do find, for me, that as I get older, we spend a longer time 'trying'. aside from this one, of course.

so my advice? learn to recognize when you ovulate and have lots of sex : )

Hi Gmom

I really don't know where this notion comes from that falling pregnant is harder with prolapse. They could just as easily have told me that I couldn't get pregnant because I spent too much time in the sun as a youngster, so I have freckles. It is just so stupid!

POP is just organs wriggling themselves into different places. They are still all joined on where they should be, and they all still function the same, even if there is a bit of pain and discomfort. Maybe it is the fear thing again. Fear of delivering the uterus when the baby is born, and not being able to get it back in again? That turns into 'shouldn't', and very easily 'shouldn't' turns into 'can't'. I can see it happening, the way some doctors peddle fear of everything falling out!

I was just having a little giggle though, about how we spend more time trying as we get older. You mean in a 'biological clock' sense, or in a 'getting it up' sense, or in a 'when your kids grow up and leave you alone in the mornings you can do more practice' sense? Now menopause is upon me I think I will keep trying, just in case! Actually, just because we can! ;-)

BTW, DS1 and DD both resulted from infertility treatment. DS2 was a complete surprise, and fourth pregnancy that ended in miscarriage was from lazy condom use! I think you are right, Gmom. As long as there is not something glaringly wrong, just stop worrying and get on with it, and plenty of it.

L

I just meant it took longer. first two times we got pg a couple of months after tossing the birth control. numbers three and four took 6 and 9 months. this one happened as soon as I gave away all my maternity clothes and breast pump, lol.
so go figure.

luckily & happily we don't spend much time trying in the 'get it up sense' or even in the 'kids interrupting sense'.

I wonder if the pg & POP myth comes from a 'just play it safe' attitude (misguided, of course)

Yes, I think the myths come from a 'play it safe' direction, which has something to do with fear of gyn consequences (misguided), but may also have a lot to do with the woman not being able to be honest about why she doesn't want more babies, eg the husband wields inappropriate penis power in the marriage and the woman doesn't have much say. If you put it in terms of "the doctor said...", then very few people would challenge it. Unfortunately, not all women are in marriages/partnerships where they have much say in anything, including when to stop having babies. This happened to an acquaintance of mine. Getting out of the marriage was the only way she could stop having babies, which she did after about the 7th baby. My only memory of her is standing at the checkout in the shop she owned with her husband, heavily pregnant with a toddler on her hip and a really p***ed off expression on her face. Very sad to watch.

L