ANY OLD RUNNERS OUT THERE?

Hi Alix

Sorry you are being frustrated by the Search engine. It is in need of an upgrade, as it no longer searches as well as it used to (for me, anyway). You could try one of the major Web search engines. Use the Advanced Search screen. One of the fields allows you to search a particular domain. You can also include and exlude particular phrases, specify the age of the hits etc. I have found this a better way to search the Forums than the Search box.

I am 64 and am running with prolapses (recotcele and csytocele). I am uncomfortable enough that I wear a tampon during the day as a pessary. The prolapses were starting to become evident 3 years ago, but weren't diagnosed until last year. I do not have problems with incontinence or emptying my bowels. I just returned from a backpacking trip and got along fine. I don't have a clue about whether my activities will make things worse, but I need to live my life. Like you, I can't expect any reversal in time.

Right now, I am managing just fine. Sometimes there is some discomfort when things shift, but I have accepted the fact that things will never be 100% as they used to be, but that is true for a lot of things. With the possibility of complications like mesh erosion (anterior and posterior) and incontinence, I cannot see what surgery has to offer. Surgery would probably mean the end of my active life.

I found the Whole Woman site the day before my consultation with a surgeon last August. The surgeon said that I didn't need to rush into surgery. I would suggest giving the Whole Woman approach a good try before deciding to go for surgery. You have nothing to lose.

Right now I run for 30 minutes on dirt 3 days a week. I walk up and down a couple of hills while I am out for a total of about an hour. Then on 3 other days, I have a 45 min weight routine, followed by 15-20 min intervals on a treadmill. I don't run on the treadmill, but regulate the intensity with speed and incline.

I didn't ask the surgeon about activities that could worsen the prolapses.

I have scoliosis. My spine twists about 30 degrees beginning at the shoulder blades and curves to the right all the way down to my pelvis. Not pretty see on an X-ray, but hasn't affected my activities for some reason. However, if I don't work out, I get spasms at the level of my shoulder blades and across my hips and sciatic like pain down my right leg. I feel great when I work out consistently.

The flexion in my lower back is somewhat limited, which may be why I haven't had much success with the Posture. I want to get down to Albuquerque to see what Christine thinks. I might just trying to do the Posture wrong.

I am grateful I found this site. I was simply terrified last year. And that state of mind doesn't help you deal with the situation.

I too love this post menopausal forum. I am in deep sympathy with these women who suffer prolapses post partum - at least I got to enjoy my years with my children before this happened to me - but I don't have a lot in common with them. I tend to only frequent this post menopausal forum.

I used to run. Now I don't. I walk - speed walking - but running made so so uncomfortable I had to stop. I would like to take up water aerobics this fall since it seems there would not be the downward pressure.

What about horseback riding? I love to ride although due to cost I don't very often. In fact it's been a couple of years. But I would hate to feel that gate is closed to me completely. Any prolapse cowgirls out there?

Cynthia

Hi, ChannelD:

I'm post-menopausal with a cystocele. I kept riding my horse anyway for the last year or so. I used a small tampon with plenty of lubrication to keep my bladder up farther while riding. It seemed to work okay until last month, when my symptoms worsened.

Horseback riding does involve some pounding that's transferred to the pelvic area from the motion of the horse. This seems particularly true at the trot (I ride English). I'd have to say it probably is not the exercise of choice for those of us with POP. Then again, sometimes you just have to do what you love, regardless.

I am hoping that my new, worse cystocele symptoms are not permanent. There may or may not be good reason for that hope, as I soberly contemplate the future. If I get a cystocele "repair," I will likely never ride again due to the altered internal pelvic structure that results. As it is, I worry about my POP almost constantly. I would like to be more optimistic, but things aren't going well right now.

I hope you find some exercise you enjoy that works out well for your body. I really want to keep riding, as our horse is nearly part of the family and a very expensive "pet" if he isn't working. This whole POP phenomenon is not one that any of us would have chosen, and I think our experiences and response to it are still evolving. May the good Lord grant us wisdom and healing.

Saddleup

Hi Jackie

I like your positive approach, Jackie. It shows how you are applying all sorts of different help and the knowledge you have built up over the years to solve the challenges that your body with its different conditions throws at you. I like the way you use your Wholewoman knowlege in ways that demonstrate your understanding of the principles. It might not be the identical application of WW that I use, but it helps keeps your machine oiled, and that is the aim of the exercise.

It would probably be much easier for your to roll over, wallow around in a sea of painkillers and become a total invalid. What would that gain? You are a wonderful example for those who live the pity party every day. Taking charge of your own solutions is the way to go. (((hugs)))

Cheers

Louise

Hi, all:

Just for the record, I'm in my 50's and post-menopausal, with a grade 2 cystocele. I'm going through some pelvic floor PT for incontinence management. Here's what happens to me:

I use the toilet, then lift forward with my body to try to empty the bladder completely. Often, some more urine comes out. I put things back together and go about my usual activities. Then, within a few minutes, or sometime in the next hour, I feel wet. A check in the washroom usually shows nothing on the mini-pad, but toilet tissue touched to the area is definitely moist.

What exactly is going on here? If I can't fully empty the bladder by using the WW "double-voiding" technique, how can I prevent these little leaks? It is so frustrating and exceedingly depressing to feel that I can no longer control my bladder.

I'm only a couple of weeks into the PT, but I truly have no idea whether it will help. I'm stuck thinking that my sphincter muscles no longer line up with the urethra to block the flow, and that "strengthening" the pelvic floor through Kegels isn't going to change that. The therapist is encouraging me not to run to the toilet all the time (which I've done because I'm obsessed with the thought of leakage). I'm supposed to Kegel 10 times in quick succession, distract myself with some other activity, postpone the toilet trip for 15 or 30 minutes, and urinate not more than every two hours.

Does anyone else experience this sort of incontinence issue? Did anything help? I do the WW exercises and am trying to incorporate the posture more, but frankly, I've not seen much improvement. And I'm afraid to keep riding my horse for fear that the cystocele will progress.

As all of you know, this whole phenomenon is somewhat less than fun. Thanks for any insight you can give.

Saddleup

Hi Saddleup,

The female urinary continence system is very complex and admittedly not fully understood by urogynecology. What we do know is that incontinence procedures - all of which pull the urethra forward - often work successfully to stop incontinence. Unfortunately they also come with a slew of risks because they change the natural dynamics of the pelvic interior. But the fact that they work tells us that in most cases it is the angle of the urethra/bladder that is responsible for continence.

What you are describing sounds very OK for a woman in her fifties. As we know, the whole pelvic area becomes a bit more mushy and undependable with age. I feel damp sometimes, but it is never remotely a big deal. Urine is extremely clean stuff, yet urinephobia runs rampant in our culture. A mere glance at surgical websites and women’s forums makes it clear how these fears are played out on the pelvic surgery stage. What is losing a few drops of urine during sex, riding your horse, or any other time? A daily change of cotton clothing is usually adequate to stay fresh. Urine doesn’t smell rank for several hours and fresh female urine is a pheromone for men! I guess the bottom line is, you’d better get used to a bit of leakage now and then because your system has lost the tightness and total functionality of a 12-year old.

Really, Saddleup, I think you need to be with this until you understand that it is largely within your control and what isn’t probably isn’t going to get much worse. It doesn’t seem to be the case if we have our uterus that urinary incontinence is progressive - that we become more and more incontinent until we’re in diapers. I also hate to see you give up riding when your bladder is protected in the straddle position. So much of this we really have to figure out for ourselves.

Christine

quickly want to add...if you drink frequently expect to pee frequently. I would hate for you to get a uti because you are holding stale urine. A good measure is to pee a good amount each time you pee. So if you are running to the bathroom only to dribble a bit then sure take the PTs advice- but if you have to go in 1 hour and you go and it is adequate then go when you need to and forget the whole 2 hour thing.

and one question. how do you know it is urine? could the moisture be coming from somewhere else? perhaps normal vaginal moisture?

and I'd ride- but not trot. ever.
maybe you need to trade in for a smoother ride.....

Thank you, Alemama and Christine for chiming in on the subject. Christine, as you imply, the fear factor has been a bit disabling, and I ought to make peace to some extent with my post-menopausal physiology. Because cystocele can be progressive, I've been scared that mine will keep getting worse. My uterus is "well supported" according to the urogynecologist I see. So at least that's something in my favor.

Really, the amount of urine leaked is small. Sometimes I know it's happening, like when I'm out for a fitness walk, far from a toilet. I often cannot make the muscles contract in an effective way--due to that positional problem with the urethra, I would guess. As an additional observation, I believe this sometimes occurs when the bowels have a full load, putting additional pressure on the bladder and urethra.

Alemama, your suggestion for frequency of urination makes a lot of sense. I mean, if the bladder is full, and it isn't so easy these days to "hold it," then it probably should be emptied without additional delay. You know, I thought I had that whole toilet training thing down at least 52 years ago, but life changes, doesn't it? Thanks again.

Saddleup

Hi Saddleup

Have you tried pressing the little pressure point under your nose with the tip of a finger when you feel that your bladder is going to empty. It is deep in the angle between the underside of the nose and the upper lip. Pressing it for a few seconds will often stop the bladder from spasming, and give you time to find a loo or a big wide shrub.

Cheers

Louise

I did a search for scoliosis and found this old post. Is this a true pressure point, Louise? I feel like chugging a liter of water and filling my bladder to see if it works :) Thought I would make sure it was the real thing before making a fool out of myself, walking around with legs crossed and finger jammed into my upper lip!

Yes, it is a real pressure point. It was demonstrated to me by a local, trained Continence Nurse, who I also know personally. She suggests that women (and men?) can use this technique to give themselves a minute or so to get to a toilet if the urge to empty the bladder strikes suddenly. I have used it, mostly with success. The sooner you get your finger up under your nose, the more effective it is. The sensation just goes away. Maybe the body thinks you have just been punched under the nose (which is like the same sensation, but less) and that running away is a better choice than pissing yourself on the spot!

L