New to group

We're very glad you found us, Mary, and yes, your symptoms do sound like classic cystocele. This is so common we might as well say it happens to just about all of us eventually. Urinary retention and associated UTIs are part of the syndrome. The organs fall over time, but because the early stages are asymptomatic, the final drop does often seem sudden. As you have probably gathered by now, we don't believe gynecology has much to offer in terms of prolapse treatment. However, you will likely see improvement after changing your outer framework (posture) to allow your organs to move toward their original positions. We are also experimenting with anti-inflammatory diets, which appear to help as well. Like our member Flora, you might benefit from using a ring-with-support pessary. These seem to work best in women with primary cystocele and would certainly be worth asking your doctor about. The surgeries are truly terrible.

Welcome to Whole Woman!

Christine

Mary, I couldn't recommend Christine's book more highly. I wish every woman could read that book before even considering pelvic organ surgery.

I have the same problem with not emptying my bladder completely. I have a pessary that I don't wear all the time. When I do wear it, it does seem easier to empty my bladder, however, it also makes me prone to leakage at other times. Everyone is different and you would have to see how it does for you if you got one. Sometimes the pessary makes me feel better, sometimes not.

I highly recommend the flannel "mini-pads" for the bladder leakage (if you have it or get it). Even not wearing a pessary, I leak when I sneeze or cough. I wear these pads all the time and they free me from worry. They are more comfortable than plastic disposable, cheaper in the long run, and very easy to wash. LunaPads is one brand, Party in My Pants is another. If you go to their websites, find the "panty liner" size, you do not need the bulkier ones for periods, or the ones with period insert pads. They seem expensive, but compared to disposable ones, it's cheaper. Just 7 of them will last a long time; the ones I have been wearing for two years are still in great shape. I ordered 3 or 4 different types and sizes, then ordered more of the one I liked best.

The doctors always warn me that retained urine from cystocele causes urinary tract infection, but I have not had a single infection all the years I've had this cystocele. But I did have a few when I was young before I got a cystocele. Maybe the retention caused your infection, maybe not - just do not let them talk you into surgery based on that, because they can't really prove that surgery will stop the urinary tract infections, but surgery will almost certainly open you up to all kinds of worse problems. It is true you don't want it to ascend to the kidneys, but your doctors are on top of that.

I would highly urge you to stay here and if you have any confusions or the doctors want to do anything you are uncertain about, run it by Christine and the other ladies.

Hi Mary

By all means visit the gyno, and even get fitted for a pessary. I see pessaries as another option you have. Just make sure that you are happy with the way they fit it, and make sure that you end up with the right size and type. Getting the wrong size means a lot of disappointment and having to go through the fitting process again. Some practitioners are gentler than others.

I was fitted for one about 15 years ago, but never found it satisfactory. Hopefully you will be able to manage without a pessary or only use it when necessary. Getting it well lubricated for insertion and preventing the discharge from having it sitting in your vagina for long periods can be challenges in themselves, but some women find them OK.

I think you will find the book quite illuminating. Once you *understand* what is happening to your organs you will be in a much better position to understand the sensations and the symptoms and do something about them.

I had one of those transvaginal ultrasounds at the beginning of the year. It showed nothing more sinister than the POP's that I told them I had. And it showed that I was able to empty my bladder satisfactorily, which has meant very few UTI's in the last few years, since I started on WW techniques.

Looking forward to hearing more from you.

Louise

I dont know if it would show up but I suspect evidence of it would be visible. I say this because the doctor who ordered my transvaginal ultrasound knew the prolapse had happened but wanted to check that my ureters were not being stretched, and impeding kidney function as a result of the bladder being lower than normal. Not sure about the mechanics of it but I did ask what they were hoping to find out and that was the answer I was given. They also wanted to check that I was able to completely empty my bladder. No, there was no stretchilng of the ureters, and yes, I could empty to a point that was within accepted norms. There was nothing wrong at all. I knew that, because my bladder is not carried low all day, though I can tip my pelvis back and down she comes, any time I want a TMI party trick for a doctor. ;-)

Anyway, gotta keep the doctor happy, and I have extra benchmark information to boot. This doctor was a general practitioner, not a gyn. It was the most thorough investigation anyone had ever given me, and it was interesting what they found.

Having said that, my test may not have been the same as yours. These questions you ask are valid questions to ask the doctor when you get the results back. I am not a doctor.

Cheers

Louise

I'm new here too (36yo) so don't have real advice but want to share my moms & grams experience
My grandmother just had some suspension sugery done for a bladder issue and boy did it make it worse. She went from incontinence (at 89 yrs old) to not being able to empty her bladder and having to catheter several times a day. She had to have another surgery to correct the surgery that was just done.

My mother had a hysterectomy (sp?) when she was 35 and has had pelvic and bowel problems as long as a can remember... since the hysterctomy she has had 2 bowel resections and 2 vaginal repairs. Her surgeon nicked her bowel 4 times. She now (at 67)just a few years later is having extreme pain with intercourse and bowel movements and the prolapses are back full force. She can feel a thick ridge of scar tissue that she believes to be the major source of problems. The surgeries completely failed and have created greater problems.

I write this to caution that your GYN as my grams and moms did will assure you that the surgery correction is minor and has little risk but both my Mom & Gram have had greater problems than what they started with.

This is why with my post partum prolapse I have come looking for another option. I don't want to travel the road as my mom has.

whlst you wait, have you tried any natural remedies to shake it? lots of people swear by cranberry (be sure it's unsweetened! sugar will feed the infection). also 1/2 tsp baking soda in a glass of water to change the PH can help. might be able to get rid of it on your own, though still good to follow up to be sure it's gone as don't want it to turn into a kidney infection.
thinking Strep B, i was cultured with it recently and the homeopath gave me something for that if you see a homeopath....

other option, could you have a yeast infection from the antibiotics?
yes, definately a pain! so so sorry. unsweetened is pretty intense but definately no sugar.
keep us updated....

Hi Mary

Sorry to hear that you are not getting much satisfaction from the doctor re the results. I would think that the test that you had would give much more information than they are letting on. As you paid for the test I think you are entitled to know the full results. I would suggest that you go and see the doctor again and ask what they found out, and ask for a copy of the results as well, for your records. Otherwise you have little to show for the inconvenience, time and discomfort that one of these &%*$$^ tests has cost you.

I have never had a UTI spontaneously go away. I have been able to lessen the symptoms with urine alkalisers etc but the symptoms always come back with avengence. Maybe I am not persistent enough? Perhaps harass them until the culture comes back, then see the doctor again for antibiotics and ask about the test results at the same time.

I haven't had a UTI for a long while now. I have figured out pretty well how to do a complete empty nearly every time. That's probably why. It is a skill worth having.

BTW, the thrush idea is worth pursuing too. I have mistaken a yeast infection for a UTI before, or had both at the same time. I have always found that a month of a good quality oral probiotic is a good move after antibiotics. Good luck.

Louise

Hi Mary

With all the antibiotics, it may well have set you up for an UTI and/or thrush, especially as you haven't been able to empty bladder properly. Even if you are now able to empty properly there is always a little bit left, which may carry enough bacteria to perpetuate the infection. I think once you can get rid of the infection/s and repopulate your system with good bacteria you won't have the problem because your body will have its own arsenal of bad germ fighters.

I think the urologist should know that POP is the most common cause of incomplete emptying. It is not rocket surgery. If you get to the end of this current process and still can't empty properly I would ask to be referred to a urogynaecologist, but I doubt that it will come to that. I am pretty confident (in my non-medical opinion) that if you use all the different means that are suggested on these forums you should be able to 'fully' empty.

The ones I can think of are:-
* All fours
* half squatting, feet well apare and bracing abdominal muscles
* have a pee then standing up, walking around a bit and sitting on the toilet again to empty a bit more
* straddling the pan.

Can anyone think of any others Mary can try?

Good news Mary. Going without knickers might stop the contamination, or at least change them frequently. Contamination is usually from e coli, which is in stool. Little faecal stains on your knickers are an invitation for contamination, and you don't even have to see them for them to be there, cunning little blighters that they are! Always wipe backwards, etc. When your tissues are less inflamed there will be less opportunity for the bacteria to invade too. No knickers equals no chafing equals no inflammation.

Cheers

Louise

just to add after you go, put your head to your knees, bum in the air (elegant eh?) so that your bladder falls forward, and then try again. or if you can't relax, sit back down and try again. rejigging the bladder around is often all it takes...

glad you are having progress with this!
Kiki

If you lift the bladder manually, you can make sure that all the urine flows out.

This is untidy, yes, as you get urine on your hand. I’ve found ways to keep the process clean, including keeping a wet bathcloth in a ziploc bag in my purse.

My bladder sometimes causes an external bulge, so it is hanging quite low then. When it is in this position, the flow, if I don’t lift it, is very slow to none, so not lifting seems to be not an option for me. Also, when it is very low, it can get pushed farther out during a bowel movement, so it is better to lift and hold it forward while the stool passes out.

Ellen