Newbie needing support!

Submitted by Aussie Mum on April 11, 2010 - 8:15am
Body: 

Hi, I am a new member who is looking for support. I am a 39 year old who is 15 weeks pp with my first baby, diagnosed with rectocele at 9 weeks pp. Feeling devastated and overwhelmed at how debilitated I am by this.

I am not used to writing on forums, so where to start.... Here goes - After being a very active person, and having a great pregnancy, I had a rather awful labour, after which I felt very damaged. I planned for a natural birth and used homeopathics, herbs, TENS machine and a birthing pool (at hospital). After what was probably a fairly normal first stage of labour, I went through transition and was told I was fully dilated by the midwife. I felt the baby very low down and both I and my support team all thought I would deliver any minute. I didn't really have a strong urge to push; and after over 3 hours nothing really changed, and to me the baby felt in the same place the whole time (although as this was all new to me I didn't communicate this).

Aussie Mum

April 11, 2010 - 8:32am

Sorry, as I said I am not used to forums and accidentaly posted incomplete!

Continued - so back to my labour - after over 3 hours the Obstetrician was called (I was begging for something to be done as had nothing left to give). To cut the story short, after 2 failed ventouse extractions, my lovely natural birth turned into what I dreaded - on my back, in stirrups and a forceps delivery. Agonising, I couldn't believe one could take such a thing. I had no pain relief except local anaesthetic, which did nothing. Even so once my beautiful daughter arrived I was overwhelmed with happiness. As soon as I was stitched up (I didn't have the episiotomy, so had 2nd grade tear - not sure which would have been worse) I went to sit back on the bed and said 'oh my backside is so sore'.... and the next day could barely walk. A day later when I went home I had to go in a wheelchair.

3 weeks spent mainly in bed, and then at 5 weeks went to GP who said I was just very, very swollen. I was describing what felt like a baby's head stuck inside me and was still limping. At 9 weeks the hopital gynaecologist diagnosed the rectocele. I had never heard of this, I had no idea labour could cause this! I am familiar with uterine prolapse, as my mother has one, but luckily is still very active (she has now read Christine's book and is doing the posture, so hopefully can keep doing well). The physio advised me to do Kegels - they have helped a little I think.

So after all this I have been left feeling so devastated, I have been hopeful upon reading this forum, that some of you are almost back to normal and hope that I can too. I have Christine's book and have been trying to do the posture (old habits die hard - I did pilates for years and feel my tail is so used to being tucked under) - I guess I will get stronger and find it easier. I have done the excersies a couple of times, and aim for at least every 2nd day, although with a baby sometimes the day just goes. So all in all any support is much appreciated, any other advice - I have ordered the sea sponges, and noted some of you talking about nauli? Has anyone found anything else helpful, will I be able to at least go for a walk 'for pleasure' again?...... thanks for reading

louiseds

April 11, 2010 - 11:08pm

Hi AussieMum

Sorry to hear that labour went so wrong, but it sounds like you are slowly coming good again. Congratulations on the birth of your beloved daughter. There is nothing quite like holding your own precious baby to start the healing off.

Yes, many years of tucking your butt under will take a long time to reverse, but it will happen in time. It is not only tucking the butt. The whole torso can get into a c-shape, even if you think your posture was good before. There will be changes in your upper body too. My upper body is much more flexible now than it has been for many years. I am 57 and have been doing Wholewoman for 5 1/2 years. Mind you, I also do bellydance, which has a lot of upper body work and use of arms. This has helped as well. Getting your arms and shoulders moving up and down will keep the lumbar curve forward (see lattimus dorsi in STWW).

(I just had another crazy thought. Use of disposable nappies means that Mums no longer scrub nappies before washing, and don't get all that upper body work of hanging them out on a high washing line, and bringing them in and folding them. Cloth nappies can be hard work, but it is good work for your postpartum body! Just make sure you have a washing trolley. Probably boiling them in a wood-fired copper and wringing them with a Mangle would have been even better, but mod cons do have something going for them!)

AussieMum, have you been to a good masseur since the birth? It sounds to me like your body could do with some rearranging at the moment. It is not working as a unit very well, is it? Doing your exercises every second day will help but there may be some bits of you that need unlocking. I am sure a good massage would help you to loosen up a bit, so you can do the posture and exercises more easily.

Stay in touch.

Louise

kiki

April 12, 2010 - 1:08am

HI Aussiemom,
So glad you have found WW and this community. Congrats on your gorgeous baby!
I haven't been around the last couple months (sick family, finally emerging!!!) but wanted to bring you some hope. I, like you, had a first delivery gone horribly wrong. Second delivery was dream delivery--homebirth, lovely etc, though with not very nice tears but they healed fine. but three weeks later, voila les prolapse. i was devastated--you'll find most of the women here have gone through that, it's a grieving we all experience and you do get to the other side though it is hard to believe!
but with christine's work and lots of looking at my diet, posture, etc, so much has changed. my little one is now three, and i just got back from a holiday where i hiked and was on my feet every day all day wihtout thinking of it at all. so it can get so much better! i don't do everything--i don't lift heavy things, i don't push the buggy up the muddy hill--i ask for help when i need it.
my main challenge is the tendancy towards constipation which is something i have to be constantly mindful of. but, i'm getting there.

christine posted a while back about anti inflammatory eating and that has helped a lot. whilst everyone was sick i pared down eating to strict fruit, veg, protein, and a bit of grain--no sugar at all, no dairy other than live yogurt, and that was it. i was amazed because whilst i'd been eating well but with the odd "treat", and had noticed a difference especially with my bladder prolapse, being even more extreme meant at the end of the two months my prolapses were (unless i went looking) not noticeable at all.
do hang in there--things will get a ton better, emotionally and physically. and that getting better will go on a long while--i didn't get real changes till about 6 months PP, so give your body time to heal.

Kiki

Aussie Mum

April 12, 2010 - 6:35am

Thanks so much for your responses, it is wonderful to hear of your hike Kiki, it gives me hope! My diet is generally pretty good, I have a vegan diet (for 10 years) and am a naturopath, I do have a bad chocolate habit though :-) Since having the baby I probably am rushed and don’t eat as well as I used to, but am lucky my husband makes yummy dinners in the evening. Thankfully I don’t tend towards constipation as I hear it can really aggravate a rectocele.

Louise, very good idea re the massage!!! I feel so stiff as really can’t get around too well, so tend to sit a lot more than I used to – find the WW posture very hard to do when breastfeeding. Would you believe I have a voucher for massage on my fridge – I will book it tomorrow!!

Interesting thought about the nappies, I have been using compostables – planned to use cloth nappies but due to my inability to get around, the washing was building up as it was. Luckily my Mum helps me with some housework, particularly my washing as I just can’t keep up, and some days I am too tired or too sore.

I ordered the sea sponges – jeepers they are huge!! Although after an incident today I am too scared to use them (they arrived in mail AFTER the incident!). I tried the tampon soaked in olive oil as a pessary as had to go out and have been feeling a bit worse the past few days. My physio recommended tampons to me, but I was not keen, then saw on the site the idea of using olive oil. Anyway as I put it in it hurt!! I felt ‘grazed’ internally, so decided to take it out again, ouch! It was so uncomfortable, and felt stingy, I got so stressed and tense it just made things worse! Am ok now, but wondered if this is normal? I phoned my Dr and she said I shouldn’t be sore internally, maybe it is candida, but I have no symptoms of this, and last time I saw her she did a swab test for infection and all came back ok.

Thanks again, oh joy there is somewhere that others understand!! My husband just commented ‘gee women are so good to each other’!!

louiseds

April 12, 2010 - 10:49am

Hi Aussie Mum

I wonder if your doctor has ever breastfeed a baby? Of course your vagina is dry and irritable at 15 weeks postpartum! Your oestrogen levels will be quite low if baby is feeding whenever s/he likes. That's what happens to vaginas when oestrogen is low. A little taste of menopause for you. ;-)

Don't add that to your worries. It will be fine again when your menstrual cycle kicks into gear again. Many mothers report that three months postpartum their prolapses are pretty bad, but it will only be a few weeks and it will start to get better again. We don't really know why. It may have something to do with breastfeeding, but I have been assured by Breastfeeding Association of Australia that, even though increasing oestrogen levels will lead to a more comfortable vagina, there is no clinical evidence of weaning being associated with an improvement in prolapse, so weaning is not likely to be helpful in that respect.

Others will probably chime in with other ideas for pessaries, and sponges.

Yes!! Use that voucher, and I do hope you really enjoy it. A little bit of TLC for you.

I wasn't putting a guilt trip on you about the nappies. Things have changed a lot since I had my babies back in the 1980's. It was just a wry observation about the way our modern lifestyle actually stops us from exercising our bodies in everyday life. ;-)

It sounds like you have a wonderfully helpful family. It really does take a village to raise a child, so make the most of it. I am sure you will be able to give back or help someone else later on. At the moment it is your turn.

Take care

Louise

Aussie Mum

April 13, 2010 - 2:28am

Hi Louise,
Yes, true low oestrogen and dryness, it just feels more sore than just dryness, like there is still damage from the forceps or something….. My gyno also said that I had ‘one too many stitches with the tear’! Not sure what effect this is having.

I have left a message for the massage therapist, bring it on! Just can’t seem to fit the exercises into the day – my thyroid has gone out since the birth and I am so tired – spent the morning in bed, cancelled my mother’s group and then the baby is awake alllll afternoon and if I put her down it isn’t long till she cries. Still, she is so cute!

No guilt trip taken about the nappies, it was an interesting point, and there are so many things that were done before our modern lifestyle, but can’t say I am not grateful for the mod cons – my dishwasher just broke so now there are more chores.
It is nice to be able to chat!

louiseds

April 15, 2010 - 2:41am

Hi AussieMum

I wonder why your doctor would make a comment like that? The fact that he did say it tells me that something didn't go quite as expected with repairing the tear. I think you should ask him what he meant, and the implications of it. It is your body. You do have a right to know. You are going to be living in this body for a long time.

Also, he has a right to know if you are experiencing discomfort as a result of something you think he did. If you don't ask him about it he cannot do anything about it, and you will never know what he meant.

Yes, I too actually do agree that mod cons do have a valid role!

Have you followed up on the thyroid problem with the doctor? Tiredness is often associated with thyroid problems. You don't have to be tired like this, and it probably won't go away by itself. When we are overloaded with babies and household stuff it is often a temptation to put our own needs last. This is exactly what we must *not* do.

If you fall in a heap, who is going to look after your baby? I think you owe it to yourself to gather yourself up and meet your own health needs. You probably feel guilty about wanting more of everyone else's help to get you through this, but it is a valid need, to ensure that you don't go further downhill.

Perhaps you could discuss the situation with your family? They are probably willing to keep helping while they are needed, but it would be useful for you to *all* come up with a strategy together, so resentment doesn't build up, and you can solve it in the best way possible.

Louise

Aussie Mum

April 15, 2010 - 3:42am

Hi Louise,

Thanks for your reply. It was a different gyno that made the comment about the stitch than the one who actually did the stitching. I am going back to see her on Monday so am going to ask her heaps of questions! Last time was my first appointment with her and the initial diagnosis so was just trying to take it all in. This time I will go armed with questions! Also she recommended oestrogen cream which I decided against seeing it gets into breast milk, and may even lessen milk supply....

I was just wondering about the stitch and if anyone had heard of what effects it has, but will let you know what the gyno says. Also if anyone felt sore internally so long after birth (4 months) - I don't notice it unless touch there, or when I tried using a tampon.

Yes, followed up on thyroid, am taking herbs for a couple of weeks first as have had it stabilise with herbs before, but if this doesn't work will have to use medication - still I am confident in the herbs.

I must admit I feel guilty about all the extra stuff my husband has been doing, he says I have to ask and not to worry. My Mum has been really helpful, particularly recently as I think she can see every time I overdo it my prolapse symptoms worsen, she comes over at least once a week and helps with housework and minding the baby.

Thanks

aza

April 15, 2010 - 4:23pm

Aussie mum, what a full on time you are having! Louise has already covered so much but I just want to add something in regards to your post on internal damage. It sounds like you have had several people, medical experts so to speak ;) who have opinions on your vagina and how to treat it and stitch it, etc. What do YOU think? You are really the expert here. No one else knows your body like you do, and perhaps your partner too, and if more people in the medical community actually listened to a woman's perception of her own body, we would be the better for it.
4 months is a long time to still be feeling what you are feeling, for sure. Can you have a very close look and feel what this mysterious 'stitch' might be about? You will gain far more insight this way than anyone on the outside, that is for sure.
P.S. Your birth story sounds so familiar....looks like your body was trying to give you a bit of rest before the pushing phase, but those with their eyes on the clock rather than your inherent physiology made for a very unpleasant experience.
P.P.S I would love to know where in Aus you are if you are ok with sharing!

alemama

April 15, 2010 - 5:13pm

A vaginal tear, cut and repair are like most injuries in the body- they take time to heal- after my first birth it hurt to wipe for 6 months! My girlfriend had the exact same experience- somewhere around 6 months things seemed to get better
I've asked lots of moms since and most report soreness that lasts for about half a year-
Maybe by 6 months the hormones change and the tissues get more estrogen?
So there is hope

Aussie Mum

April 15, 2010 - 8:54pm

Thanks alemama and aza,

True, patience is needed! I have found it difficult as I don't know anyone else who has had any complications after their babies were born (I know plenty who had complicated births though). I was surrounded by well meaning friends telling me all should be fine after 6 weeks, and that they were. Ouch, still sore after 6 months alemama. One thing a few Mums have told me is that they felt 'different' after having a baby, but not that there was discomfort or pain, just stretched and a bit boggy feeling....

Aza, I am a chicken - I don't want to look, or even feel. I have looked at my perenium and how it healed after stitches, but have not looked internally - the thought makes my stomach churn. My partner said it feels the same (only with a finger - as it hurt!).... Re my birth story, the 3 hours I mentioned was the 2nd stage of labour, the full labour was 16 hours. I was in 2nd stage for 4 hours all in all. In all that time it felt as if the baby didn't move from a very low down spot (where the prolapse is now I think!!). Aza - are you the midwife on the site? If so maybe you might be able to shed some light on this.... I never really had an 'urge' to push but my body was doing some involuntary pushing, but unproductive. I found the midwife I had was totally passive and I didn't get much direction or help in what to do. I had other support people there too who were great, but not experts in birth (and my husband had never been to one of course). Once the obstetrician came he made me push with all my might as he used the ventouse - I felt he tricked me a couple of times, asked me to push as he was going to get the baby out, and then he didn't. Maybe he was just making sure I couldn't get the baby out myself first, but I did feel awful about this after the birth as he did the 3 times (before each ventouse attempt, and before the forceps).

I wondered if the baby being in the same position for so long caused the prolapse or if it was the forceps - or both! Instinctively after the birth I felt it was from the baby - as was left with a feeling of a ball the size of the baby's head internally, but more in my rectum, it felt the same as when I was in labour (of course without the contractions). The obstetrician said I had a narrowish pelvis, the babys chin was tipped up and the baby's head was a bit on the large side, as to the reason I couldn't deliver.....

aza

April 16, 2010 - 2:24am

Oh Aussie mum, I would bet my life that the people you know who had complicated births did indeed have trouble afterwards! This sort of talk is not commonly accepted conversation, however (what a shame, it can really spice up a boring dinner party) and post birth stuff often falls y the wayside in light of the 'at least you got a healthy baby' drivel. So unfortunately you are SO not alone, though it may seem that way.
I am still a bit surprised about the 6 month healing...feeling different yes, but still painful and uncomfortable to that extent rings as not ok to me, even though it may be very common. I am very proud to say that I have very little experience with bad and big tears (see what happens in out of hospital birth;) ) Do you feel like it is scar tissue or more muscular?
Yes, I am a midwife Aussie mum, so have the perspective of working with bodies and birth but nothing comes close to the level of knowledge and wisdom of the women on this forum with regards to POP and pelvic mechanics (gosh that sounds amusing:) )
Gee, all these narrow pelvis' wandering around these days make me wonder how we all made it through the last couple millions of years of evolution. Obstetricians are so quick to throw around the 'narrow pelvis' card - and therefor the 'here i come to save the day' card before looking at the cold hard fact that they do not have the skills to facilitate normal vaginal birth. Sounds to me that your body was not truly ready to push yet and your bub was in a not so ideal position. Women often get a bit of a lull before full-on pushing begins. It's called the rest and be thankful stage. I am sure you were not feeling this way t the time of course, but often when birth is left to its own physiology, after a few hours or so the body begins throwing down, pushing the baby out, in earnest. I was at a birth a few nights ago where the contractions were moving the baby down against an almost fully opened cervix, great descent with each surge, but no urge to push. About 3 hours later (naps in between contractions) this first time mum pushed about 4 times and birthed her baby. Her body had done all the work to get the baby into the pelvis before the urge appeared. You say you didn't have an urge, but your body was already pushing. Sounds the same as the above birth to me ;) Who says it was 'unproductive'? Sounds perfectly normal to me; what is abnormal is that you did not have adequate support and tools to help with bub's position (tools that do not include instruments;) How do you define being in second stage for 4 hours if you never felt the urge to push? In my book, second stage is when pushing begins, not when pesky fingers in vaginas deem it time to push regardless of what the body is, or is not, doing.
Re looking and being a chicken...c'mon, put your big girl panties on (and then off) and have a look, and come back here and promptly report on your findings. Alternatively, close your eyes and feel around. You only get one fanny and it seems that yours has great importance in your life at the moment! Familiarity with your bits will only serve you...and I am betting it will bring you great relief to realise that the larger than life proportions of what you think may be happening down there are not so at all.

louiseds

April 16, 2010 - 4:15am

Thanks Aza for that very wise post. I know you are a very experienced midwife, so I can only believe that what you say comes from that experience. There certainly is a language of obstetrics which has secret meanings if you are a labouring in a hospital setting, eg 'unproductive'- secret meaning, "She is too tired to push this baby out by herself. We need to get in there and get it out quickly, or the baby will be in peril". I can see that you have confidently experienced women having a little rest before the pushing stage, as a normal occurrence. How wonderful it would be to have that much faith in a midwife, that I could trust her to know what my body was doing and reassure me, something I have never experienced. It is great that you are posting this stuff. How else are women going to know that an alternative approach can be taken if you don't tell them about it?

I have had three hospital births. If I had an 'unproductive' labour I don't know that I would have the faith in my own body, especially with a first birth, to say, "Oh no you won't!" I think it is too much for a labouring woman in a foreign environment, surrounded by 'birth professionals' to be able to override their advice. As you say, it is a flawed system that does not recognise the woman's ability to birth her own baby. And yes, these professionals can get into more trouble ($$$) by failing to 'do something' than by "doing something". Sad but true. They know little about reinforcing a woman's confidence and ability to birth her own baby vaginally, hand in hand with minimising damage to the mother.

I knew that I was going into a hospital setting for all three births and I decided that, living over two hours' drive from community midwives, it was a risk worth taking. I had a planned, fully managed labour and birth for the first (I had pre-eclampsia, but that's another story), but for the second and third I was much more confident to drive the process myself. I feel that the first birth which had a giant epi was the main cause of my POPs, but the POPs are still a small price to pay for a well baby and mother at the end of it. Being born is still one of the most dangerous things most of us ever do.

Aussiemum, Aza is right about the Big Girl Panties. It is your body. You can feel free to explore it, and get to know its nooks and crannies better than anyone else on the planet. You might even make friends with it. ;-)

A lady I used to work with had at the bottom of her email signature, "Life is too stupid to take seriously". POP is serious stuff when it upsets us and tries to derail us. Humour is a great way to disarm the enemy.

Louise
:-)