prolapse and pessary issues

Submitted by saddleup on July 10, 2010 - 1:27pm
Body: 

Hello, ladies:

Try as I may to reverse it, I have had little success in getting the cystocele bulge to move forward and up. I have observed that if I bend over at the waist, the 'cele is sucked high up inside. When I attempt to hold it there through WW posture, it just falls back again. It feels like it sort of oozes down through the back wall of the vagina until it peeks out.
My cervix is low as well, though it has not approached the opening.

The ring with support pessary that I use keeps me from feeling like my insides are falling out during the day. I take the pessary out at night. Lately, however, I have experienced the return of some urinary incontinence with the pessary in place. If there was one thing that had improved, it was that for several months the incontinence was gone, with or without the pessary.

I wonder if I've let the muscles down there relax too much and should take up my PT exercises again--yes, they involved Kegel contractions and "Roll for Control," which Christine believes are fairly useless. However, when doing contractions, I always did them in the position Christine recommends and never flat on my back. She certainly makes a good point about inhaling and nutation in her critique of the "Roll" regimen. If I try them again I will make sure I modify them accordingly.

Is there a certain amount of time per day I ought to devote to being on hands on knees, firebreathing, nauli, standing on my head (?) or other techiques? I walk for fitness several times per week. I'm sure I'm not always in posture, but I try. My saggy tissues apparently do not wish to return to their previous positions in my pelvis, and I'm just wondering what else I can do. Thanks for your insights.

Saddleup

aza

July 10, 2010 - 8:04pm

I don't really have anything helpful to offer you but just wanted to say that I am glad to see your name and it is nice to 'see' you ;)

saddleup

July 10, 2010 - 8:36pm

Hi, Aza:

Well, I don't know what to expect. I so wish to be a success story! The durned old body does not seem to be cooperating just yet. This is a phenomenal online group. It clearly meets a need for untold numbers of women. None of us would have chosen this, but we have to deal with it.
Best wishes to all.

Saddleup

louiseds

July 11, 2010 - 12:10am

Hi Saddleup

Re bending from the waist, do you really mean bending from the waist, or do you mean bending from the hip joints, where your legs meet your pelvis? They are two completely different actions. I cannot quite see how you could make your bladder rise by bending at the waist, which is why I asked you to clarify.

Louise

bad_mirror

July 11, 2010 - 1:04am

I'd book myself a flight to New Mexico and a week of private lessons at the Whole Woman Center. I read about another member here who was not getting results and when she went in to the WWC, voila, it turned out she was not "getting it" at all by herself. She wrote back three months later to say that she had experienced a huge amount of reversal. People have different learning styles, and some need a teacher. It can be hard to learn things via media. Do you nauli? I cannot imagine not having any results with that, it is so powerful.

As for the amount of time devoted, well, for me it is 24/7 lifestyle. I nauli whenever I have a private opportunity. THE posture is now just MY posture and it goes everywhere I go and does everything I do.

I am sorry that this is causing you such distress. Some members speak of "redoubling" their efforts, and then speak to the success . . . . I wish you the best.

saddleup

July 12, 2010 - 6:32pm

Hi, Louise:

I said "waist," but I meant "hips."

Saddleup

saddleup

July 12, 2010 - 6:44pm

Spending a week at the WW Center has been mentioned by various women on this site. Could someone who has been there please chime in about your experience?

I'm concerned that, as a woman whose cystocele showed up post-menopausally, my condition is difficult to reverse. That has been my experience to date.

Although a trip from where I live out to Albuquerque for a week sounds kind of expensive, I would do it if I thought it would help substantially. Thanks for your comments and support.

Saddleup

louiseds

July 12, 2010 - 10:13pm

Hi Saddleup

No, I haven't made it to Albuquerque yet but ...

When you say your POPs showed up post menopause, and it is the lateness of its appearance that is the problem, I think there are reasons to think that is not the case.

If your system held up OK until then, what changed to bring on the symptoms? Perhaps some thinning and drying of tissues in the vagina, which then lose their ability to slide over each other during movement, and would set up greater shearing pressure behind the vaginal wall (which would be thinner, so the point forces would be more concentrated without the buffering effect of more tissue thickness) which might break down fascia that has previously been 'just hanging in there' until then. Phew! Jolting exercise could increase this effect.

I am only a year or so post menopause so far, and I really can't see how my POP's can get any worse, unless I lift a blazing car off an injured person, or some other totally superwomanly feat. However, I do accept that they might get worse. Don't worry, you will all hear about it if it happens. I will be yelling loudly for help!

The other 'however' is that I had my Wholewoman posture down pat before my menses stopped altogether. I have noticed older women who say that they no longer have the flexibility to really lift their chest and reinstate their lumbar curve, and keep it there. Maybe that is a post menopause change that might precipitate POP by allowing the pelvis to tilt backwards, but I think it more likely a lifetime posture habit that has set their slouch in stone well before menopause. I think these women with a lifetime of slouching will have a hard time learning WW posture later in life. I don't know if you fit into this group or not. As a horsewoman I would doubt it.

I do encourage you to make the trip to Albuquerque. You will never know unless you try it.

heavenly

July 13, 2010 - 6:08am

I live in Maine but not doing well with the Nauli and some of the other things. Really need a bit of attention directly. Saddleup, where did you say you were from if you don't mind me asking? Do you know what the price would be for a week at the center?Maybe this is not the place to ask.
Heavenly

Christine

July 13, 2010 - 10:44am

Hi Heavenly,

Class prices are posted in the WW Store. I generally do what I call my "Intro Class" for women with prolapse. This is where we sit on cushions in the studio and talk about anatomy and prolapse, then go through the posture and a series of exercises ending with questions&answers. It runs about 2 1/2 hours. You are welcome to come back each day you are here for a half hour or so for additional clarification and exercise.

This is not miracle work (although it has worked miracles for many women) and in someone who is not getting noticeable results over a period of years the question then becomes, Am I better now than I would be after pelvic reconstruction? I have come to believe that some women really do require surgery for reasons that are too deep and varied to try to go into.

I hope to hear from some of our long-time members who have really struggled - like Nancy. N-A-N-C-Y-Y-Y-YYYYYY are you still with us?

:) Christine

kiki

July 13, 2010 - 4:24pm

I personally feel like I would try it before i opted for surgery if I was even thinking that way. it may not be a miracle cure, but i'd want to know i'd tried everything first if it was within my means, and given this my all. having done lots of movement stuff before, i know it's easy to think we're doing something right when in reality, it takes a trained eye to see where we're out... so maybe it doesn't work, but what if it does? my experience and that of so many others is that it can, but maybe some of us do need a bit more help to get there. i know i can get so much better--i look at the amazing women around us here and see what i aspire to healing wise!

so i'm actually heading there in August for a few days--hurray! i can't complain about my POP as it's infinately better than when i first had them, but i know that i could do more. and i've stopped doing any exercises as life is just too overwhelming at the moment to do much more than work, be with family, and breath...
so i need something to kick start me into action again & i know this will do it. i can't wait, as whilst i think i'm vaguely in posture, i know i'm not where i should be. i keep catching my shoulders up, or curved, or whatever...and i'm never convinced i'm nauliing right, so i really want to learn it properly.
and NM is amazing, so can't go wrong there. plan a relaxing few days to visit museums and practice my posture as i meander about Albuquerque.
i'll feed back about it once i've been, but am really looking forwards to the class with Christine and getting myself a bit further along this journey.
Kiki

heavenly

July 13, 2010 - 5:02pm

I watch the tape over and over to figure out the Nauli. Do not think I am doing it right. I have looked at the book so much I know it by heart. When you Nauli do you do the same as when you firebreath. Breath in, belly goes out. Breath out and you hollow in so to speak? But you are kind of moving the waist area in a circle with your breathing. Nauli goes with the firebreathing right? Is the pelvic rock also breathing in action back and forth. Damn ,need some real help here. Anybody close to Maine who knows how to do these things the right way. Have pop, will travel!!
Heavenly

alemama

July 22, 2010 - 10:57pm

" I have come to believe that some women really do require surgery for reasons that are too deep and varied to try to go into."

please go into- cause I can't think of very many reasons.

see in my mind- require surgery for what? is the question. Sure, if pop is threatening your life- Heck if it's stopping your functioning- but I've read way way way too many horror stories about post op complications and life in general after surgery- and send me to them if you know of them- but I have not found a single pre-surgery story that compared to post op complications and trauma. (ok maybe the one I read here of the mom who just set up camp in the bathroom with all her kids everyday for hours while she sat on the throne- that to me might qualify- but then she was so upbeat and happy- so who knows).

Saddle-up you are going to get this thing! you are going to figure out what the combination is that helps you. I know this because you are still out there, working hard, trying different things.

I think a pessary can change things up for the better and for the not so better- go without for a while and see what you think.
or wear temporary- like just for walking or just for riding.
I love how you have taken the roll stuff and altered it to fit wholewoman ideas and got results. It's what we've seen done with trampolines and yoga here by other members.
Keep on searching.
and do it! Go. I bet Christine would love to see you cause if I were here I sure would :)