more rectocele questions

Hi pollyanna,
Welcome

I too have struggled with the rec. It took me trying this and that to figure out that I was so afraid of being constipated I was eating too much fiber. I was experiencing the same things you are so I said ,"Well I have got to change something." We all know that the first thing is WWposture and exercises and everything that Christine and all suggests. I am not one of the experts but figured out I was eating too much fiber. That in my opinion can be as bad on the rec as too little fiber. I have had a great few days but I do get the bad off and on now. Too much fiber just keeps moving the bm down again and again, got to keep it up a little to relieve the pressure and irritation. I know I am not explaining this well but what and how much fiber are you eating a day. Anything goes with a rec. What you are talking about I do relate to. We are all here for support!!
We are the WW family!

Heavenly

Hi Heavenly

I am glad you raised this again. We do talk about it occasionally.When you think about it, animals that graze, ie eat food that is lignified as well as soft green stuff, have very complex digestive systems, ie a rumen that does primary fermentation of their food before it goes into proper digestion further down the digestive tract. Cattle actually have five stomachs, counting the rumen. I think camelids have even more! We only have one, before the same miles and miles of tubing.

It makes sense to me that if you have too much fibre your digestive system is going to be very bulky, because fibre absorbs a lot of water, or if you don't drink enough water the stool will be very dry, so it won't go around the corners smoothly. If your digestive system is more bulky it may have different effects. Firstly it will take up a lot more room in your abdomen, which I think would give you a bigger belly, and maybe create more intraabdominal pressure, sort of like having a lot of internal fat. There would not be very much scope for repositioning organs because it would all be very squashed in there.

In amongst all the talk of superfoods and crazy diets and weight loss systems I think we always have to go back to the basics of the healthy diet pyramid, and eat lots of different foods with not so much fat and not so much sugar and not so much processing. We need to know what we are eating. If you diary everything you eat and have a look at the diary after a couple of weeks you might see whether or not there is a rough balance. Ask yourself if it is a sensible way of eating.

The other generalisation is that eating less is always better than eating more (as long as it is by choice). It is amazing how little food a human can get away with eating and not starve to death. How much obesity do you see in aged care homes? Not a lot. These people all died before they got old. (Yes, I know. The causes of obesity are not as simple as eating too much, but you get my drift that eating too much does not lead to a long, healthy life?)

Food is just another example of consumer madness, advertised and promoted in exactly the same way as electronic gadgetry, cars and laundry detergent. 'They' just want us to consume more of it, and to give them our hard earned dollars, so they can spend it on themselves and we just get fat.

We do not need a lot of food. We become convinced that we want a lot of food.

Now, I am off to put on my new makeup and my new season outfit, jump in my new, green, luxury car and go into town to buy a coffee and some yummy, sensual cake that will make me feel sexy and desirable.

Kerching! Just kidding ...

Louise

Have a great week and weekend. Love ya lots and always love your posts!
Heavenly

Dear Pollyanna_inuk and Heavenly

I have my diet under control in that most days I am regular and have that light feeling for longer periods of the day and yet I still experience the too frequent bout of constipation/diarrhea. I also experience what Pollyanna mentioned not being able to use your bowels even when not constipated. I don't know how best to express this but bear with me and see what you think.

When using public toilets you have no doubt on some occasion overheard two women enter together, occupy adjoining cubicles, and continue their chatting nonchalantly throughout their toilet continuing on as they wash their hands, comb their hair and exit.

On another occasion, one of the couple will chat on and be finished while the other falls silent and delays vacating their cubicle obviously playing catch ups having been unable to engage in conversation and pee at the same time. Frustratingly I have changed from being able to do the former to becoming the delaying companion.

Perhaps having some difficulty with urination/defecation means that the toilet situation becomes self-conscious rather than reflexive and having prolapse becomes a conscious holding-in just in case things fall out. The subsequent tenseness in our muscles cannot be helpful either for digestion, bladder and bowel movements or for the prolapse. I do notice I often tighten my stomach muscles when facing anything unexpected and I just have a hunch this might be the culprit.

While on the dreaded subject, other people on this site have mentioned the difficulty in passing a small amount of soft poo. What works for me in this regard is not eating between meals whether a piece of fruit, carton of yogurt or one measly square of chocolate. I save them for mealtime (Chocolate with my coffee is nice). It probably defies all logic, but....

We have diverticulitis in my family and refined carbs are a big no no.

regards

I just noted that there are several different medical conditions mentioned in this thread. Doctors give us a diagnosis, and treat that diagnosis. However, it is patently clear to me from the clusters of conditions that women mention on the forums that many of the diagnoses are connected, even if only by association, even if they seem to be totally disconnected.

I think it is worth mentioning again that often a diagnosis is simply shorthand for a longer phrase that describes our symptoms (that we have just rattled off to the doctor, and been very impressed that s/he can conjure up one word to describe several disjointed sentences!), but is sometimes the real cause of our symptoms.

As laywomen we have no idea which is which. I think many doctors don't have much idea either. They are so used to drawing dotted lines all over the body that separate different physiological and metabolic systems. The medical system does not seem to recognise many of the crossovers between systems that we know about intuitively, eg the relation between emotional/mental tension and bowel problems.

So I am suggesting that we listen carefully to the doctor, note it down, and then go back to listening to our bodies. Treating the symptoms can only lead to a return of symptoms once treatment is finished, unless something else has happened, or been triggered by the treatment. I also recognise that some treatments do treat the underlying cause, but often the underlying cause is a sign of a wider malaise in the body. It is the whole body that needs treating. (And sometimes we just need a little drug help to get over a dark patch)

Anal sphincter damage is very often caused by a birth tear or episiotomy that tears further. The body is amazing the way its systems do cross over and support each other. eg, there is a pelvic floor muscle that starts and ends at the pubic bones. It wraps around the back of the rectum and loops back down the other side to join on to the opposite pubic bone. It holds the rectum forwards, making an artificial kink that prevents stool up further from pressing down on the anal sphincters. When the rectum is full, I think we can feel this muscle stretching backwards as the rectum tries to straighten itself out, like a full sausage skin.

No wonder so many things go wrong in the pelvic cavity, whether it is in the urinary system, the digestive system, the reproductive system or the 'erotic' system (which by the way, seems to be studiously ignored by the medical specialty system!), for both men and women, but particularly women, because we are designed to distend considerably in pregnancy, then shrink back again after pregnancy!!

The spinal cord goes from the brain down to the second lumbar vertebra. It has bundles nerves coming out of it all the way down, which supply the upper thorax. Just below L2 and just above it, the cord splits like the fibres of a rope into nerves that supply organs and structures below that level. These are the nerves that supply our intestines, rectum, bladder, vulva, vagina and uterus. They come down the same path as the spinal cord as a bundle of nerves rather than a single cord of nerve fibres, then go off as individual nerves at the appropriate level of the spine, sacrum and coccyx to their destination organ, so they are all squashed together in the curves of the spinal canal, then come out, many from the sacrum, into that crowded space called the pelvic cavity, which in women with POP, is a bit disorganised. These nerves can get squashed between ligaments and vertebrae, pinched, stretched and generally upset because the organs are not necessarily where they are supposed to be.

This is one of the reasons why posture that is as straight and tall as possible, and good whole body muscle is so important. It prevents our own bodies from crushing the nerves that allow out bodies to work harmoniously.

So don't blame your sphincter or your diverticula. They are just pawns in the game too. Get to know them, and try different techniques for getting the organ to work better together. It is the aliens that move into our pelvic organs and change the way our pelvic cavity and its contents work together, that give us the s#^%s. No, not really. But it is up to us to find out what is happening in our bodies, and work using all the techniques we can, to solve these ongoing puzzles. Wholewoman techniques are a darned good start to reorganising your pelvic contents, but it doesn't end there. Keep sharing your solutions. If one women is helped by something you have developed or discovered, or picked up somewhere else, then it is worthwhile. And that woman might be you.

Sorry about the disjointed rave.

Louise

Hi All,

On Tuesday I came down with the “crud” that is going around where I live. I figured it was viral after doing saltwater nose irrigation Tuesday evening, which always seems to work wonders for bacterial infections, and made no difference. I was pretty sick by Wednesday morning and really sick by Wednesday afternoon - sore throat, river-running nose and constant sneezing. So I had my usual mug of red clover tea with fresh ginger in the late afternoon and just to ease my discomfort, decided to have a second mug of very strong white willow bark tea, for its analgesic effects. Then I turned out the lights.

It took me a long while to go to sleep - about 2 hours - during which time I experienced the most amazing physical healing of my life. Over the course of the first hour I simply watched as my sneezing stopped on a dime and my nose dried up to a sniffle. Over the second hour my sore throat vanished...as I watched!!

The next morning I made a strong mug of red clover, ginger, and willow bark tea for my daughter, who was also suffering from the same symptoms. A couple hours later she was feeling much better too.

Although many of our medicinal plants are anti-viral, I am not aware that white willow is one of them. Perhaps it was the combination of the clover and willow, or maybe my body just needed a drastic reduction in inflammation to heal. I awoke yesterday morning 90% better and today am back to my old self.

It is *so* amazing to me that we have ended up in a world that has the secular (science) pitted against the religious. It has ended up coloring everything - education, politics, medicine, etc. etc. It’s not like there needs to be common ground found between the two, because in some fundamental way, they are both on the same side!

Contemplating this, as I was lying in bed watching myself heal, I had the stark realization that both of these world views are “male” in scope and outlook. Where is the “female” side of reality? I would classify nature, medicinal plants, midwives and healers as the feminine side of life. Why isn’t science jumping up and down at the loss of our precious plant allies? Why aren’t our religious establishments demanding that our “Garden” be well-tended and preserved? Who is standing up for Nature? No one, except the few “radicals” who understand that we live in a world where half of nature - the female half - has been vanquished.

Human beings grew up with nature - how can we not be totally and completely entwined and responsive to her offerings? From my experience, it is the only medicine that truly heals. Pharmaceuticals “work” (sometimes), but do they heal?

Pollyanna, the anal inflammation sounds hormonal. I can’t recall your age, but this is an extremely common menopausal symptom. Red clover salve and tea have reduced my symptoms dramatically.

Heavenly, Louise is right - we need green fiber!

Fab and Heavenly and Pollyanna, magnesium deficiency is rampant in our culture and can lead to all of the symptoms you describe. Mg has been called the most critical regulator in the body and the list of major diseases associated with deficiency is long.

Things that interfere with the body’s absorption of Mg are high protein meals, soft drinks, caffeine, sugar, alcohol and I *think* too much supplemented vitamin D, but need to validate that. It is said that most of the world’s soils are now deficient in Mg, so it’s probably best to supplement.

Just adding to the rave here...

Christine

Things that interfere with the body’s absorption of Mg are high protein meals, soft drinks, caffeine, sugar, alcohol and I *think* too much supplemented vitamin D, but need to validate that. It is said that most of the world’s soils are now deficient in Mg, so it’s probably best to supplement.

I've read pretty much opposite that- low protein diets inhibit mg absorption, vitamin D deficient individuals also have inhibited absorption of mg.

(not really the same thing- to be exact- too much supplemented vitamin d and individuals who are vitamin D deficient)

(also not the same thing....a low protein diet and a high protein meal)

but still....I've looked into these three subjects (looking at scientific papers, animal studies, and less reliable correlative studies, pop culture information and alternative medicine opinion): magnesium, vitamin d and calcium because of our son's illness. He has intestinal absorption issues because of his parasite. We have been very precise and thoughtful about the administration of these three very important nutrients and he has improved in health significantly. We have worked with the specialist in testing his blood for these things (as well as many many other factors they wanted to rule out) and only stopped short at exploratory surgery (which we could do but right now it isn't worth the risks associated with putting him under- at this point -since 1. he's feeling better and 2. we already know about the parasite).

anyway, it's great to supplement magnesium. If you grind your teeth at night, have trouble falling asleep, have leg or foot cramps- a nightly dose of magnesium can really help clear up these annoying troubles.

Christine, I'm interested to see what you find....and I'm glad you are feeling so much better so quickly!

my six sisters and I all have diverticulosis, as our mother did before us. She passed away of stomach cancer in 1997. Therefore, we have been very careful about pilori bacteria and baseline colonoscopy at age 50. No doctor drew lines on me, I have seen the nasty little pocket of infection in a picture taken by the colon scope camera. By the way two of my older sisters have had 12 pre-cancerous inches removed of their colons and a younger sister's colon blew resulting in a colostomy that was reversed after six months of healing. Lucky girl. I believe in good nutrition for a healthy life, but if my doctor says to be careful of nuts, seeds, and vegetables with hulls, I listen. And I listen as my body says no cooked peppers, onions, or popcorn. These are real diagnoses of real health issues. Rave on.
Melly

My mother and sister had this too. I learned very early on that all health begins in the gut.

HI Melly

Sorry if I offended. Maybe I was a little flippant. I didn't mean that doctors literally draw lines on our bodies. I was referring to the way the medical system literally divides our bodies up into medical specialties, when the diseases and conditions that we suffer from do not respect those same divisions. eg it is very difficult to get an orthopaedic specialist to relate to pelvic organ prolapse because s/he regards it as a gynaecologist's territory, in spite of the fact that even the medical fraternity, has established that POP is a set of problems that are related to the breakdown or damage to the body's structural system. Similarly cystocele is regarded as a gynaecological problem. Surely, it should be an urological and an orthopaedic conditon, rather than a gynaecological condition? Rectocele is regarded as a gynaecological condition. Surely it is a gastro-intestinal condition? These medical specialties do not talk to each other much because they do not understand each other's language. They could learn so much more *for the benefit of their patients* if they could see past their own 'dotted lines'.

In a sense gynaecology *does* beneficially cross the dotted lines, and groups conditions of organs that impinge on the vagina together in one specialty, but in doing that it hides the relationship between the pelvic organs and musculoskeletal (/fascial) system, the gastrointestinal system and the urinary system, let alone the respiratory system, and denies patients the wider view that is needed to treat these conditions. These conditions get locked into gynaecology, the medical specialty which could be cynically renamed Penis-stimulatology.

I am not saying that diverticulitis is not a problem worth addressing. It certainly is a case of following doctor's orders so that you don't die from it. But I would still regard it, and the other gut disorders that you describe in your family, to be symptomatic of something else, deeper in the person's health, that needs addressing.

Don't just treat the diverticulitis. Work out why it happened in the first place.

I would be the last person in the world to refuse a doctor's advice on life-threatening conditions. I would have been dead long ago, from nephritis, malaria or uncontrolled bleeding from miscarriage, had it not been for wise doctors and hospitals.

The heroic, life-saving work of doctors should be praised, but we need to treat our near-death experiences not as special gifts of 'resurrection to eternal life' from the Doctorgods, but as signs that we need to look after our bodies more carefully in the future, and take personal responsibility for digging deeper, and looking after our bodies, as you illustrate. Hopefully, that way, we can keep our visits to the Doctorgods as few and far between as possible.

Human they are. Gods they are not.

Louise