had my specialist appointment...

Hi New_mamma,

This is the way it is for all of us. Virtually no one has prolapse in any one "compartment".

Hope you can understand that the work is about pulling the entire pelvic interior forward. As your uterus and bladder pull forward, your vaginal walls pull up.

If the pessary helps, great. If not, know that most of us are far more comfortable without anything inside.

Try not to worry - this really will become under your control.

:) Christine

You now have 'natures pessary'
What this means is that your rectocele and cystocele will keep your cervix inside very well.
The thing you need to know about a rectocele is avoid constipation- but that is good for all three. For the cystocele be sure you fully empty your bladder each day.
No need to cry or feel your body has failed. Your body is amazing and it is compensating.
How low are your prolapses? All well inside? Keep working with your body and you will feel great soon enough :)
So glad you had a good experience with your doctor.

yes, many of us have this. one is often more prominent, but they all act together holding each other in. i do worry that if one improved more than the others, the others would worsen--they all hold together. my rect is the prominent one, so it is what i have to look after most... but having three, i have faith my uterus won't get worse which is reassuring, so hang in there--all is not lost!

for me it seems a bit simplistic to make the statement "prolapse is from lack of collagen in tissues" . I bet that statement is because there are claims that women with collagen disorders have prolapse at a higher rate than women with out collagen disorders.
I need to see research studies and beyond that it needs to make sense to me.
No one ever claimed that prolapse was caused by posture. That would be a goofy statement indeed. If you ask me prolapse is a multifaceted condition and extremely hard to define anyway. In other words, how much relaxation can a woman expect of her vaginal walls and how much mobility is simply a variation of normal? At what point does this mobility become the condition known as pelvic organ prolapse? Doctors have tried to grade prolapse, but women know that the grade can change from day to day. Doctors have claimed that prolapse is irreversible, will only get worse and should be handled surgically but women know that prolapse is reversible and can be managed beautifully without the help of a health professional. Many doctors blame prolapse on lack of estrogen. This is also extremely simplistic. They tell us that it's pregnancy that is to blame and then others say 'no' it's the birth. Then they suggest surgical births (which women with prolapse and c-sections can tell you does not prevent prolapse).
New_Mamma, I suggest you start investing more in what you think than any one individual or even group of individuals thinks. The claims made about prolapse are many.
What we are telling you here, is that from our experience, many of us have been able to stabilize and even reverse prolapse by using Wholewoman posture, changing our clothing, food choices, lifestyle, bathroom habits and exercise techniques. We gently encourage women to dive wholeheartedly into this work and give it at least a year before making a decision as to whether surgery is the best choice for for their body.

and for the record, before my prolapse my posture was great, no suck and tuck for me, no slouchy shoulders- I also have plenty of yummy collagen. more than enough. What I did have was an extremely nasty tear of my perineum. I tore all the way down to my anal sphincter and up the back vaginal wall. The next birth resulted in another tear as did the two after those first two. I'm guessing that totally destroying my perineum lead to my rectocele. I don't think it was the best choice, prolapse wise, to have three children in three years- and if you ask me I will tell you to put a good space between pregnancies especially if there is any damage to your pelvic floor. However, I continue to keep having my babies close together and plenty of them because at this point I really don't care. I know how to live well with my prolapse and that is because of wholewoman.

Alemama--wow, you just summed up how so many of us live our lives! In short, we are able to live our lives because of WW and look after our bodies to do what we want with our lives. thank you!

I too am full of collagen--so worries there. But i know that I was a dancer and tucked my pelvis for years. I also had a nasty episiotomy & horribly "managed" birth first time--all of which I'm sure helped my POP along. But, I also know I stopped worrying about the why a long time ago. Its there, and I know now that a whole lot of women are on this journey or have it ahead of them so I am ready to share, and have had years to practice. I'm not surprised your neighbour has POP but no problems--once you are open, you wouldn't believe how many women have prolapses or symptoms of them. Lots of my friends do! just not usually the first topic of conversation (but that will change some day...). But many women just get on with it, and there is natural pp healing anyway which with mild POPs mean lots of women don't realise much is going on other than "never quite the same after the birth". It is those with the more severe POP who have to stop, take notice, and do something. But, thankfully we all found WW work, which I know has helped me to be able to get on with my life far better than I would otherwise.

I'm glad the doctor isn't pushing surgery--it gives you the support to focus on your healing journey without pressure.

And given time, I would have faith that you can move your organs back to where they need to be to let natures pessary take shape--uteruses respond especially well, so hang in there and keep up the work.

you said all that beautifully, and I agree with it all

I've got plenty of collagen too, but before my prolapse my posture was awful. well, not from a PT's perspective, but very different from WW posture. I think my prolapse was the culmination of years of tucking my bum, a predisposition to ligament laxity/low tone, my fibromyalgia and yes, the sorry state of my perineum after my first two births.

and now I don't think about it much, my 'management of POP' boils down to posture and general taking care of my body with a bit of firebreathing and nauli. I will admit to wearing pantyhose and heels when the situation calls for it, I lift improperly when the situation calls for it and its fine. POP does not impact the quality of my life at all.

so collagen or no doesn't matter really. we are managing pop regardless the cause and it works.

Well, of course there are tests you can have done- one is called an AMA. But it's best done during a flare up of symptoms as it won't show up when you are feeling good. But there are others beyond that one- and you can do a fairly simple blood test to look for inflammation markers as well (since most collagen diseases/disorders are inflammatory and autoimmune in nature). There are a great number of collagen disorders and also a great number of collagens that have been identified. Many collagen disorders do not show up until your third decade of life. Some are inherited, so it's great to have a decent family history as well and some are related to nutrient deficiencies.
I am not a doctor. If you feel your collagen levels or production are compromised it would be best to have the testing done.
Basically what it comes down to is how you feel. Most of the time it's symptoms of a disease that lead us to investigate further (of course there are exceptions- like when you go in for help with one thing and come out with a diagnosis of another).
So, for me, I know I do not have a lack of collagen because my joints are not hyper-mobile, I do not have joint pain, my hair, teeth, skin, eyes and nails are all very healthy (I have had four children and the skin on my tummy is still elastic, my nails are strong, my hair thick and not brittle, never had even a cavity, no vision problems), I am able to build muscle easily, I don't get unexplained rashes or hives, and I eat well to nourish my body.

Yes, I would say it's a number of things that work together to create the condition of prolapse. That is exactly what I did say when I stated that prolapse is a multifaceted condition. I also said that taking one person's word for it is less desirable than doing your own research and testing which theories ring true for you and with your intuition. If the idea of lack of collagen attracts you to do more research then trust yourself and delve right in. Intuition is an really interesting experience. When something pops up again and again for me I often realize I need to quit ignoring it and give it the consideration my intuition keeps asking me to give it.
I am sorry you are still feeling sad. I hope that with time you will experience healing and feel better. For me it really helped to be able to do something. Research into why prolapse happens is one of the things you can do!
The reason you hear so many of us say 'at this point it doesn't matter why' is because it's the truth. We have all been down the same road you are traveling down right now. I pondered for years about what causes prolapse. In the end wholewoman has helped me reverse my prolapse. It really does not matter why I got it in the first place- I don't need to know that, to know how to make it go away. I live in my body. I feel the things that aggravate my prolapse, and I know when my prolapse feels better. At this time I feel better all the time. I think that is about all I can ever hope for. When you have no symptoms, the condition doesn't matter anymore.
I hope this helps a little....

I think WW’s claim to fame comes down to a few basic principles never before described or understood by any other system of thought or practice. These principles have been women-tested over the course of almost a decade:

1. In normal anatomy it is the abdominal wall that supports the pelvic organs.

2. The breath, under the forces of gravity (intraabdominal pressure), ultimately creates the shape of the spine, pelvis and pelvic organ placement.

3. The organs have fallen back, not down.

4. The root cause of prolapse is that the organs have fallen back. This can occur acutely (childbirth) or chronically (poor posture, collagen, straining, etc., etc).

5. The solution is to push them forward.

6. There are only a few ways (so far discovered) that help move the organs forward:

WW posture.
Hands and knees - especially “cat & cow”.
Seated postures with strong lumbar curve.
Pelvic rocks and circles with strong lumbar curve.
Parallel squatting up on metatarsals with strong lumbar curve (it is impossible to have heels on the ground and lumbar curve in place in a parallel squat - no matter what the biomechanical scientist says).
Widely turned out at the hip joints and full lumbar curve (straddling a chair and wide plies).
Firebreathing and nauli.
Pessary, sponge, etc.
High level of nutrition - control of the inflammatory process.

7. Surgery does NOT help to move the organs forward, which is why the countless surgeries for prolapse do not work.

8. Prolapse is best prevented.

9. Kegels as applied to prolapse are the wrong concept.

10. Trying to move the organs forward and keep them forward is a lifetime effort. The pay-off is a level of wellness never again experienced by the surgically mutilated woman.

We hold these forums not to prevent you from doing your own thinking and searching, but as a short-cut for women to understand the basic principles of female anatomy and prolapse. We always welcome ideas and innovation - but these must prove to be beneficial. Herbs, acupuncture, massage are great - but are not primary treatments.

Hope this helps.

Christine