How I'm feeling now

...firebreathing, nauli, cat and cow, cross-legged backbends (in the first aid for prolapse dvd) and large movements with your arms? Are you sitting in the posture most of the time and standing/walking all the time? Help us understand...

You do seem to come through like clockwork - every couple of months or so - with the exact same story.

I don’t know you, Saddleup, nor have I seen you to try to gain insight as to why you have such difficulty. All I know is that from the start you’ve had such a tough time with your condition and with this work. Neck issues aside, if you are pulled up strongly in the posture you can sit comfortably for hours - not that you shouldn’t get up and move around anyway.

From your two differing posts it’s hard to determine if it was the pants the other day or whether you’re really not improving at all. Letting go of tight clothing is probably a good idea.

Every woman has to come to terms with her condition and the available options to treat it. Perhaps that your mother has done so well post-hysterectomy and that you know other women who have had “successful” surgeries, it is easier to keep that option in the forefront of your thought process.

I wish I could infuse all women with the great awe I have for what it has taken to become a human female - whether we evolved on earth or sprung from Adam’s rib. That we are all walking and running around with an essentially horizontal spine is simply miraculous. The human female took that feat to a whole other level by not only standing, but continuing to keep her pelvic organs cushioned horizontally against her lower abdominal wall, like our four-legged friends. There is so little - only a bit of soft tissue - between the front and the back. Prolapse should be expected! It is a deeply human condition that can teach us so very much about our true nature.

What is your computer chair like? If it were me, I would find a low, wide stool to straddle. In this position, you can tilt your bladder as far forward as possible in a seated position (hands and knees is most forward). If you do this a lot, fascial planes are stretched in the right direction, which can only help over time.

For women who really understand this work, it is not “tough to know what to do”. We are stabilizing our prolapsed organs by pushing them forward through posture and exercise. That is what there is to be done. There is no mystery about it. The organs have fallen back and we are pushing them forward so that the vaginal walls can once again close and keep the bulges out. It takes a long time. If we are older it is never 100%. But we get to run and jump and dance!!

Thank you O’ Glorious Heavens for giving me this truly wondrous body that is perfect in every way. I will do everything in my power to be healthy and happy each and every day.

♥ Christine

hi saddleup, I'm sorry your POP's havent responded as you hoped.
a couple of things though, popped off the screen as I read your post. first one of course, is that you are no longer experiencing daily incontinence. that's pretty significant.
and the other is that "This prolapse thing has gotten me down emotionally for much longer than any other physical ailment has been able to do"
now, I know I have some pretty crazy, unscientific, unprovable (is that a word?) beliefs, and I'm going to share one here so please feel free to ignore me. I really believe that my body talks to me, and that it gets louder and louder until I listen. neck pain? who's being a pain in my neck? once I address that I feel better. shoulder pain? usually coincides with too much responsibility.
right before I found my prolapse I was experiencing a bunch of ailments. first my fibro flared up. then I got the flu. then I developed an occipital neuralgia (which I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy) and then a breast lump. I had dropped to my lowest weight since jr high school, felt unbearably weak, scared and depressed. I kept saying 'I feel like I'm just going to fall down' or 'I'm falling down', things like that. and then I found the cystocele. for some reason, that got me to listen up. more than the unbearable head pain that prevented me from sleeping or eating, more than the breast lump which was looking pretty suspicious.
after a few months here and seeing no real change, I decided to change my attitude and my expectation. the posture made me feel tall and healthy. I spent lots of time working on my emotional health. and life became livable again.
anyone who is coping with a chronic illness or disability, at some point, will come to that crossroad. where you must find a way to make life not only livable, but enjoyable.
at this time, I no longer consider my prolapse a disability, only something that needs looking after, no different than my overall health.
I hope that you find a path that is right for you, that you find the degree of healing you need to once again, live well.
and I hope that you are indeed only taking a breather and you come back whenever you feel the pull or have a question.
{{hugs}}

Hey Saddle up
Well! you have been here a long time right? You have been diligently working on this and your improvement is simply not enough for you. The way I see it, you are going into the next step (what ever you decide that is) with your eyes wide open. You won't be coming back here saying 'if only I had known, or if only I had tried ww first'.
You are equipped with plenty of research and personal experience. You have read all the tips, stories of failure and success and you KNOW.
Here is one thing I might do in your shoes.....I might just visit hystersisters- or whatever that website is. This would complete the loop of your research. Reading the experiences of women who have had surgery (and multiple surgeries) for prolapse. This will help you know what could be in store for you should you choose to go that way. They are pretty positive there and if you read deeply you will come across good solid information about recovery, the need for more surgery, the limitations and the results you might expect.
I love statistics but more than that I love to read about real women's experiences.
There are other alternatives to surgery beyond wholewoman- you have tried many of them already- but maybe there are some you have not explored yet.
Good luck Saddle up- I hope for nothing more than to hear you back here again singing from the rooftops of your expectations having been met somehow.
Please just don't disappear. As a long standing member other women will want to follow your story. Keep us updated!

Dear Saddleup

Are the girls here correct and you are thinking of giving up the WW quest or have you just fallen off your horse and are too bruised at this point of time to climb back up?

You might have a look at what happens between morning and mid-day re food, exercise, upsets, task/duties.

Sometimes, when things get you down, a little injected humor can help. It helps more if you can inject it yourself, your own brand.

When my rectocele is gross I start to hum an old English war time song "We'll hang our washing on the Sigfried line" all the while seeing in my mind's eye white sheets flapping on my Sigmoid colon stretched between the walls of my vagina. The poor thing is only seeking the sunlight. The only connection being that feeling of imminent peril and the name Sig. The jauntiness and audacity of the spirit that came up with that song is enough for me to laugh at my own situation.

best wishes

:-)

Hey, Saddleup,

I don't know how long it's been for you, it took more than a year for me to see any improvement. Maybe my body got adjusted, gor stronger, or I became stronger mentally, I don't know. But it took me a year or a bit more to figure out what to do, what not to do anymore. It takes long months, years to reach acceptance. And symptoms do subside...with time.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you a hug. Please, do not leave, we are here for you!

Liv

Hi Saddleup

You are a strong and capable woman. We have seen that from all your postings for a long time. There is nothing at all wrong with coming back to the Forums to check out what other women are doing. I am guessing that a large proportion of our members only read, and do not post at all. That's perfectly OK.

[Hello, lurkers!!! We love you and hope you had a lovely Christmas and New Year. Please feel free to login and express your thoughts. Just email if you have lost your password.] :-)

Snow shovelling is probably one of those jobs somebody has to do in order to avoid physical isolation from the rest of the world. I have never experienced it, so I cannot venture an opinion. However, if you felt discomfort while doing it, that would have been a reliable sign that you needed to stop, slow down, have a break, use a smaller shovel, get somebody else to shovel it, or alter your method in some other way. There are four or five suggestions of POP-helpful decisions you could have made, and can make next time you are faced with the job. With your other managment techniques I am sure that you will be able to get back to baseline in a couple of days. Here's hoping the snow abates for long enough to give your POPOs a break.

Each of us has to be responsible for how we decide to do things each day so as to avoid offending our POPs. We can make decisions that will help, and decisions that will either not help, or will bring on a temporary setback. The choice is ours alone. Sometimes we take risks, and sometimes we elect to try something new, which is a risk, but at the same time an opportunity to learn more.

I suggest that you back your own hunches, as much as asking us to interpret the things you have experienced, and the possibility of success with new things. You might find out something that we do not already know about!

Looking forward to hearing about the glucosamine and chondroitin. You have had some improvement in the continence area. That's great. Your next challenge might be to change your expectations. Let's see what the standing examination reveals. I am so glad you are doing this.

Louise

Hi Saddleup,
I'm rather new but I believe I can answer some of your questions. I was very much into horses most of my life and owned horses for about 10 years or so. Two of my horses (mother & daughter) had a disease that is now known as DSLD/ESPA although neither I nor my vet knew what we were dealing with at the time. This is a connective tissue disease that affects the entire body and is thought to be genetic. I'm going to try and make this short but chondroitin sulfate was one of the supplements that I did give that did help. The specific one that I gave was a product called J-Flex Concentrate from a company called Springtime, Inc. They also make people products. There is also another product that I believe helped even more that I have taken for about 17 years myself. The thing of it is that I ran out of it about 2 months ago and was just able to get more last week. During the time I was out of this, my arthritis pain came back and my prolapse got much worse after doing the half frogs that I found on the t-tapp site before I found WW. I have only been back taking this supplement for a week now and there does seem to be improvement but it will probably take another week or even a month before I'm sure. It too is suppose to help connective tissue but I have not found any place on the Internet where there are claims that it will help prolapsed organs. There are other brands out there but anytime that I would change brands with my horses they would go lame again in about two weeks and my pain would also come back. Since their problem was a connective tissue disease and prolapse has to do with connective tissue not functioning right, then just maybe what I gave my horses and was taking myself was what was helping me all these years until I ran out. I will let all of you know what the product is in a month or so if I believe that it is truly helping my prolapse; otherwise, there is no use in anyone wasting their money.

I have an inversion table and I do believe that it helps. I don't invert all the way though. The most that I ever invert is at about a 45 degree angle. The way mine is made I can't lay on my stomach and invert, I must do it on my back but everything feels like it is going back into place when I do this. Before I got my inversion table I propped my sturdy ironing board on the frame of my bed, about 18 inches up, and inverted that way. You could try that and see how it makes you feel before buying an inversion table. When doing this with the ironing board, I place a pillow on the floor for my upper back and head to rest on. I have tried laying on my stomach on the ironing board but I don't seem to get as good of effect of the organs going back into place as when I am on my back. Keep in mind though that the inversion tables are heavy, about 80 lbs. or so. You will probably need someone to help you move it into your house. Many of them will fold up "for storage" as does mine, but where mine sits is where it is going to stay because it is too heavy to be pushing or pulling around and they don't have wheels on them. They take up about the same amount of space as a twin size bed does.
I hope this helps.
Little Bit

Hi Saddleup,
You are very welcome. You are so right about some of these supplements helping horses so much and they can't lie. I do believe that the product that I am using is helping to control my prolapse but I didn't even think about that until I ran out of it. I know without a doubt that it helps my arthritis and I also have carpel tunnel in both hands that hasn't bothered me much now in the 17 years that I've been taking this. I'm just not 100% sure about the prolapse part yet. Too, over the years I would take it myself for a few days and then stop for a few days, especially when money was low. I felt my horses needed it worse than I did. I just didn't realize until I ran out how much this stuff was actually helping me.
Little Bit

Hi Little Bit

You've inspired me to get back on my supplements !

I'd never thought about G and C helping prolapse, but it makes sense that they may have a long term effect in helping to rebuild tissue.

I have a feeling that they are very anti-inflammatory too. Five years ago I got sudden onset swelling and pain in my finger and feet joints - and it kept coming back with each hayfever season. GPs tests were negative for rheumatoid arthritis - but I went on the G and C supplements anyway. Nothing dramatic, but I often got a flare up when I ran out or forgot to take them for a week or so. I've had very little joint pain for years now which I put down to improved diet, so I stoped taking them.

However, I do get the odd twinge of joint trouble during hayfever time, when I also get more palpitations from an old myocarditis infection. GP says they couldn't possibly be linked and G and C has 'no proven usefulness' - but I'm sure it's all part of a wider inflammatory picture
( including the hayfever). There is a whole shelf selling G and C supplements in every British suppermarket so clearly a lot of poeple are experienceing real benefit, whether with tissue regeneration or its anti inlammatory properties.

I will let you know if I feel a real benefit to my pop after, say, six months. This could be a useful lead for many of us.

FIngers crossed.

Doubtful

Hi Doubtful, Saddleup and everyone at WW.
I might as well tell all of you what I have found for myself. Keep in mind that I have no medical training at all. I'm not giving anyone medical advice. I might as well start from the beginning because it is the only way that I can explain what I have found to be of help. I will try to really condense this.
Back in 1993 I bought my first Paso Fino broodmare that was already bred to a world champion horse. I also bought the unborn foal. I had a vet do the pre-purchase exam and the mare passed in flying colors. Not long after I purchased the mare, I learned that she had passed a "hip problem" down to her first two offspring that showed up about the time they turned 2 years old. I got so upset over this that I had 2 more vets check the mare, they both passed her and said her conformation was perfect. The foal was born and I could not believe there was a thing wrong with her. The mare did have a popping & cracking sound in her hips after being ridden even for short periods but the vet told me it was nothing to worry about. Then one morning when I went down to feed, the mare was so lame that she could not even make it out of her stall. She had to lean against the walls of her stall for support. Nothing showed up on X-rays but when the vet did ultrasounds, he found out she was lame in all 4 legs. He compared it to carpel tunnel in a human and called it "a tendon sheath injury" and said that he had never seen anything like it. He gave her bute (nickname for a strong horse pain killer) for 6 months and still she was lame. At that time he said the kindest thing that I could do was have the mare euthanized because he could not keep giving her bute for the rest of her life and it really wasn't helping. I was a rural mail carrier and there was a holistic vet that lived on my mail route. She didn't treat horses, only small animals, but she owned horses and knew about them. I told her about my mare and asked her opinion. She told me several things that might help and I wrote everything down that she told me. One of the things that she told me was chondroitin sulfate and I bought a very hight quality brand and yes, the mare started improving right away. There were several supplements including vitamin C. She also told me to try shark cartilage but to only give the smalest amount possible to relieve the pain, because for some unknown reason she said that if you take too much shark cartilage that the body will build up a resistance to it and it will no longer work. I gave the other supplements and the mare kept improving but I had not tried the shark cartilage because I could not see how fish bones could possibly help a horse. Then I went into a health food store and they had a big display of Twinlabs Shark Cartilage on sale, so I bought a bottle. I gave the mare one capsule morning and night broken open and mixed in her feed. On the second day that mare was walking without a limp, even running and keeping up with her young filly which was something she had not been able to do since a few days after the filly was born. When I saw what it did for the mare, I started taking the shark cartilage myself. The first capsule I took, I woke up the next morning without a pain in my body for the first time in several years. I have arthritis in my hands, knees, back and carpel tunnel in both hands. When the conventional vet came back to my place, he said that he would not have believed it if he had not seen it with his own eyes. He told me to sell the mare ASAP while she was no longer lame. I could not do that, I had a strong bond with her, I did not want to take her away from her filly and I felt my soul was worth more than the price of a horse.

Almost on the day the filly turned 2 years old, a popping & cracking sound started in her hips. I started giving her the same supplements that I gave her mother and the popping & cracking sounds went away. The mare had been 7 years old when she went dead lame overnight. During the filly's 7th year, it became obvious that she had the same exact condition as her mother. These horses stayed pasture sound and there wasn't anyone that could tell they had anything wrong with them. There were times though that I felt they might be "cured" and I would take the supplements away just to see. They would always go lame again after a couple of weeks but would be fine again in a couple of days after I started the supplements back. Also, it was the Twinlabs Shark Cartilage that I always felt that did them the most good. There had been times that I changed brands but when I did that, they would always go lame again after a couple of weeks and would be fine again in a couple of days after I went back to the Twinlabs brand. I believe the reason for that is because the Twinlabs is a concentrated form and I have not been able to find any other shark cartilage for sale to the public in a concentrated form. Also, Twinlabs is packed in brown glass like it should be and they also pack a small container of activated charcoal with it to keep it dry.

It wasn't until about 2005 that I found out that what was wrong with my horses was a connective tissue disease thought to be genetic known as DSLD/ESPA. This disease affects their entire body. There is a Yahoo DSLD site and on that site there is a conventional vet that is doing a study using a Chinese herb called jiaogulan (J-herb) and a supplement known as AAKG. Some horses respond to this treatment and some don't. Nearly all have "flare-ups" and "set-backs". My horses had neither as long as they were kept on the supplements. My horses were euthanized in 2003 when they both foundered which I believe was due to fescue grass. Horses with this disease are prone to founder. They were not euthanised because of D/E but it was a deciding factor. It was the hardest decision I have ever made and the sadest day of my life.

I have taken the Twinlabs Shark Cartilage for about 17 years now and it still works for me. I now know that I have had prolapse problems for about 20 years. It wasn't until I completely ran out of the shark cartilage a couple of months ago that I realized that it must be it that was helping to keep my prolapse in check. My belief is that other brands might work if you take enough of it but you would probably have to take so much of it that your body might indeed build up an imunity to it. They say that anyone should not take it if they have heart problems because it keeps new blood vesicles from forming. I do not feel I have had any bad side effects at all in all the time I have been taking this, only good ones. So far, since I have started back taking this, I have had improvement in my pop as well as being free again of arthritis pain. There is no cure for D/E in horses and I'm not saying this is a cure for prolapse, but I do believe that it is helping me to control mine. I am so grateful that I found this site. I bought the bundle and Christine's book and DVD have helped me so much in understanding my prolapse. With what I am taking now, staying in WW posture as much as possible and learning to do my work in a little different way, I believe I can live with this thing without surgery. Forgive me for all my typos and for this being so long but I do believe there may be others that may be helped by this.
Little Bit

This wonderful relationship you describe with your mare makes me marvel at the magic in how you found each other. Once having found each other neither was going to let go. I don't know how horses do that. Somehow they recognize the human they are meant to be with. And your relationship despite the perils and heartache prevailed and in nourishing and healing your mare you were able to nourish and heal yourself. Now you wish to spread your generous spirit to us and enfold us in your healing circle.
Thank you Little Bit

Hi Saddleup,
I am an active 60 year old and a few months ago was diagnosed with a stage 2 cystocele prolapse (luckily no leaking thank goodness). Recently the bulging has become more pronounced which really bothers me because it hinders my activity. I understand fully how you feel particularly the emotional toll prolapse takes because like you, I can't seem to get my mind off "the bulge".

In the past I have seen doctor & physio but it didn't take long for me to realise Kegel's were not working and a waste of my time. I'm not going down the surgical path as advised by them.

Recently I took delivery of my First Aid for Prolapse DVD and I am only doing the first stage 1 and 2 exercises until I am proficient enough to move onto the next stage. I am wondering if anyone could tell me how often I should do these exercises and also do I go through stage 1 and 2 once, a couple of times or more in a session? I feel a bit silly asking this but if I don't ask, I won't know and I don't want to overdo it or not be doing enough to enable me to move through to the next stage exercises.

Thank you Christine for this wonderful Whole Woman website.
Magical Wombat

Thank you Fab. I have felt since I was young that things happen for a reason although it may take a long time for us to understand why it had to be and there are times when we never understand. I am sure that I would have never learned about shark cartilage helping arthritis and other joint problems if it had not been for my mare. The holistic vet that told me about it said that it has very strong anti-inflamitory properties. It took about 17 years for me to realize that it was also helping my prolapse and I'm sure I wouldn't have realized that if I had not ran out and the company I usually order it from had not ran out. It makes me believe even more that things do happen for a reason.

I'm 66 years old and since I've been back taking it, I seem to be improving a little more each day. I wouldn't take it though if I were pregnant or TTC. In that case I would probably go with the chondroitin sulfate or a chondroitin/glucosamine combination. Raspberry leaf tea is also said to help connective tissue and it is said to be safe during pregnancy, even helps with childbirth. There are probably other safe things out there. I am not an herbalist but I started learning all that I could after I found out that conventional medicine could not help my horses at all, only natural alternatives could. After my conventional vet found out that I was giving my mare shark cartilage and the chondroitin sulfate, he told me that his father had cancer and they were giving him huge amounts of shark cartilage. I don't remember how much he said they were giving him but it was something like several tablespoons at a time several times a day. As time went on and I found out that it was only the Twinlabs brand that seemed to help my horses, I told the vet about it. He insisted though that shark cartilage was shark cartilage and he was buying the horse product because he said that his father needed such a huge amount and he could buy the horse product much cheaper than the human product. I didn't argue with him but since I was only taking one capsule morning and night, I've never worried about any bad side effects. I've just always researched as much as I could and now the Internet is making that easier.
Little Bit

Dear Little bit
I take your point about being meticulous about the specific manufacturer of the shark cartilage capsules. Your conventional vet was following your lead, yet at the same time he ignored the details of your rational approach. How frustrating for you. When we act like your conventional vet in our own times of desperation and despair, it is nearly as if no matter how much goodwill we feel and how well intentioned, we are obstinately sabotaging our efforts. We get it half right. We can't clear our mind sufficiently of old habits of thought; more is better, frugality is virtuous, alternative medicine does not really work etc, to grasp fully our true path and right course of actions. How many times have I done just that! How many times have I stood impotently by as someone I loved did just that. It is so clearly seen by the observer when someone else acts in confusion, not so easily recognized in ourselves.
I'll turn sixty-five next March and I am going to attempt to overcome my fear and distrust of supplements and trial these twinlabs shark cartilage tablets.
I suspect it has cost you much to talk about your loved mare and yet if it helps the women on this forum it will be pain redeemed.

Fab, thank you for your complete understanding. It is VERY hard to talk about my horses. After they were gone, I could not go back in that empty barn without breaking down and crying like a baby. They died in 2003 and were buried on the farm. In 2004 we sold that farm for just what we had in it. Their spirits were still there and when we moved to a smaller farm they came with me. They seem to be happy, free, and completely at peace.

We only have one small health food store in our area and they don't carry the Twinlab brand of shark cartilage so I order mine over the Internet. I either order from vitacost or mothernature. All you need do is add the .com to their names. Both have it for less than $20 plus shipping. Vitacost only charges $4.95 for shipping no matter how much you buy. Mothernature has free shipping if your order is over $45 but they always add a couple dollars on mine for a "rural surcharge." I don't know why that is since the PO doesn't charge anymore for rural delivery than it does for city delivery. Vitacost ships really fast though and mothernature seems to be slow. I'm telling you this because the normal retail price for a bottle of 100 capsules is around $35 and it is sometimes hard to find this brand.
Little Bit

Thankyou ladies I really appreciate your posts. I haven't been to this forum or site for quite a while.
Saddle-up I read your post first and then Little Bit's and then Fab's replys.I feel you have all given me several helpful bits of info as I am trying to pick myself up again after a year of ups and downs and feeling emotionally drained..still things going on.
Anyway enough of that, as I am interested in holistic health and a friend or two are, I'll tell a friend in vet training ,about the horse story.So sorry you had to go through all that again, but thank you so much for sharing your story, Little bit, about your beloved horses, Ive never even ridden one and yet I have always had friends who have,and I know how much they love their horses, and I love animals anyway lol I'm a city girl! I did once get close to a horse, introduced to me by its owner, and we had a beautiful but short connection, the owner said her horse had taken to me :-). Ahh I am digressing, back to the point...
I found through my chiro, that Glucosamine doesn't agree with my body so I found MSM as the next best thing and seemed to help my achey joints when I tried it, so I will go back on that and see if it helps prolapse too.Oops I did say that last year on the forum , but didn't get round to it.Other stuff got in the way.
Saddle-up...I fluctuate like you , but feel more optimistic on this path. I do think that the mind affects the body so much, have you ever read Louise L. Hay's book...You Can Heal Your Life?..(also read that as body..all connected).I found it turned my thoughts around, I hope it will for you, if you read it.
Another book I'd like to recommend to any women in todays age of stress, is Sarah Ban Breathnach's book called ..A Daybook of Comfort & Joy, a lovely reminder of life's joys and how to get back a thankfulness, about daily joys and recapturing our feminine essence.I hope some of you do :-)

I have had many tell me to get an op, or why don't I, but my close friends just supprot my views, and I don't bother telling those that don't or I just say ..its my journey.But it is much harder for you , when it's so close to home. Perhaps when you feel its working for you, then you will put out that confidence and no-one will bother saying any more to you.....for me its a mindset now, and thats that. And I'd like to know if those that criticise me can do all the physical things I do , even when I feel like you do, some days, for no apparent reason eg for some reason some days I never think about it, but for some reason I feel worse on Thursday nights??? and even when I have to stand back and let others lift things I can't, eg even my suitcase when travelling.People can be so kind if one asks with a smile and calmness.
Not to say I can always have help, still have to do some things that don't help.
Oh btw I can dance with great energy, several times a week, and with speed and the odd bit of jumping happens and then in the moment I completely froget I have a problem cos I'm enjoying it so much . Im no spring chicken either as I have grownup children . Hey, no matter they think ' mums' a tad crazy and how could I possibly be their mum :-) well that's half the fun, don't you think? Being our authentic selves, no matter what our family, friends or community thinks we should be!
I'm off to utilise those useful pieces of info & insight you girls have given me!
Wish you all a very Happy & Healthy New Year in 2011!
With love xxx

Hi Kiwigirl,
Nearly all glucosamine comes from shell fish so that may be why you couldn't take it. I'm no expert on it but I do know that many people have reactions to products made from shell fish. Springtime's chondroitin is bovine and it was their chondroitin (J-Flex Concentrate) that I use to give my horses. They do have a people joint formula but it has both chondroitin and glucosamine in it and their glucosamine also comes from shell fish. Shark cartilage has a "glucosamine like" component as well as some chondroitin. Since sharks aren't shell fish, you might do fine with it.

It was actually a connective tissue disease that my horses had that is now known as DSLD/ESPA. They have been trying to find a DNA marker for sometime now. It doesn't matter how much you know about horses, you can still end up with one with this disease if it hasn't presented its outward signs yet. Its a horrible and heartbreaking disease. My horses lived normal lives with the help of the shark cartilage and other supplements that I gave and their fetlocks (ankles) never dropped. It was always the Twinlabs shark cartilage though that seemed to do them the most good. I am sure now that my prolapse is being helped by the shark cartilage. If anyone else trys it, I hope they will let us know how it works for them.
Little Bit

Hi Little Bit,
yes its the shellfish that upsets my body. Would you believe my daughter popped in yesterday unexpectedly, and over a cuppa , asked me about supplements for her joints. She's never been interested in anything I take or do lol she's growing up :-) Told her about MSM but that I could only now find it with Glucosamine, and so all I could find was MSM powder, which I need to have with orange juice, so keep forgetting to.She left to go find some, and I went out to a funeral. When I got back she'd left a bottle of MSN Tablets and a note with kisses from her .Ahhh...later she told me she bought 1 for her and 1 for me.
I will report back with results in awhile......for both of us.Differnt reasons though ;-)
Today is Wednesday, Ive been dancing tonight and all feels good !

Good one, Little Bit. Isn't it great when daughters finally start to act like fellow human beings on a human journey? And you've been dancing! Lucky duck!

L

Hi Kiwigirl,
My daughter was around 20 when our neighbor told us about Dong Quai. We both took it for different reasons but it "cured" us both. That was about 3 years before I bought my horses and found out about shark cartilage and other supplements. My daughter is 40 now and we have always been close but one of the things that keeps us close is learning about things together. While I was delivering mail in Florida, I use to listen as much as I could to a radio station they had in the area at the time that dealt mostly with holistic health. It seems that only our bodies can repair themselves but we need to give our bodies the right stuff so that they can. I've heard that it takes the cells in the eyes the longest to replace themselves, something like 3 years, but with the other cells it is like getting a new body something like once a year. Some cells replace themselves faster but I've always tried to keep that in mind over the years. My daughter finally got that concept through her head a few years ago and has cut out most of the junk food that she had been eating, even sodas.
Little Bit

Hi again, and yes Louise Im back dancing this week after the Xmas break, although I didn't really feel like it ...last few months events caught up on my emotions lol but Im back again in the land of the living today.Need to lose an extra roll Ive gained :-(
Little Bit, yes its great when one's daughters start agreeing and wanting the same things. I've been a healthy junkie, if that's the word for years , gathering bits of info here and there and apart from my prolapse, and vitamins not on any meds.Im probably not that far off your age...She works in a medical place so is not usually interested in my health ideas or hobbies until this last year.She popped in again for lunch today and a chat, that was lovely.
The last 2 days I have had Cinnamon brought to my attention. I knew it was good for helping with sugar/blood balance. My brother told me his neighbour's arthritis has improved dramatically with cinnamon and honey mix, after friends in Uk sent her info about it. They work in holistic health there and sent her some info about it.But it has heaps of other health applications. I'm waiting for the info , there's plenty there if you google about it.

It has now been about 2 weeks since I started back taking Twinlabs Shark Cartilage and I do feel that it is helping to reverse my prolapse. After I started back taking it, I noticed the next day that most of my arthritis pain was gone. The following day ALL of my arthritis pain was gone. On the 3rd day I was no longer feeling the "bulge" from my prolapse. I still have a prolapse but it is not as low as it was and seems to be staying that way. I do stay in WW posture as much as possible and walk about a mile twice a day.

Keep in mind that I am only telling you my own experience. I have no medical training and am not an herbalist. I found out about shark cartilage about 17 years ago due to a mare that I bought going lame. It turned out to be a connective tissue disease known as DSLD/ESPA. My conventional vet couldn't help her. It was a holistic vet that told me about shark cartilage, chondroitin sulfate, and several other supplements that I gave her. It was the Twinlabs shark cartilage that seemed to help the most. I tried several other brands of shark cartilage, including one made for horses but the mare would always go lame again after a couple of weeks. When I would go back to the Twinlabs brand, she would seem fine after a couple of days. I believe the reason for that is because the Twinlabs shark cartilage is the only shark cartilage that I have found for sale to the public that is in a concentrated form. I found out recently that Twinlabs has been sold to a larger company that has also bought up several other smaller supplement companies. I hope that they continue to produce the shark cartilage in the form that Twinlabs has done for so many years. Twinlabs is also the only company that I know of that packs theirs in brown glass, like it should be, and they also have a small container of activated carbon in each bottle to keep it dry. I intend to take this for the rest of my life. I didn't know how much I needed it until I ran out. I had only been taking it for my arthritis pain and didn't realize that it had also been helping with my prolapse that I believe started about 20 years ago. At almost the same time I ran out of shark cartilage, I came across the t-tapp site and tried the "half frogs" to flatten my tummy. After only 2 days and maybe a half dozen "half frogs" my prolapse became MUCH worse. It was just after this that I found the WW site, ordered the bundle from Christine and started getting my life back together.

Fab, you mentioned that you intend to try the Twinlabs Shark Cartilage. Please let us know how it works for you if you do try it. I believe you will feel some results in less than a week.

Kiwigirl, yes, I have heard about cinnamon's benefits. I also gave my horses apple cider vinegar but I never gave them cinnamon. Apple cider vinegar is said to counteract the effects of sugar and calms them down. I only gave them one tablespoon twice a day mixed in their feed and it took about a week before I could see a difference but even the vet noticed how much calmer they were the next time that he came out. ACV has a lot of benefits associated with it. I've always bought the organic with the "mother" in it and I have taken it myself for several years.
Little Bit

Yes, little bit I will certainly let you know what results I have from the shark cartilage. It won't be for a few weeks yet as I am at present trialling a non-sucrose, non-fructose diet in an attempt to lose three inches from my waist (above the hips right across the navel) to reach my perfect height/waist/weight measurement. Giving up sugar is just the hardest. You will understand I don't want at this point to muddy the waters by adding something new (and to me unknown) during the non-sugar trial.
And I must admit I can't even stand the smell of shark!

However, this time last year I developed pain in my hip which has since improved from around August. (I had broken it about four years ago and it healed well.) If the pain should return again this year I will be trying the twin lab's shark cartilage tablets to ease that in any case. So have faith, I will get there.

I certainly hope that the new manufacturer does not change the quality of the product. So often new CEOs seek to be the hero and source cheaper supplies unfortunately to the detriment of the product.

Interesting what you say about apple cider vinegar counteracting the effects of sugar. It seems the older I get the less I really want sugar although the craving is still there.

Thanks Kiwigirl for the book referrals. I will check them out

Well I've done my research on shark cartilage and the only compelling argument I have found for taking shark cartilage supplements is your own story Little bit.

Apparently, Lane who was the popularizer of shark cartilage ( in the 80s and 90s) claimed that sharks don't get cancer, which is untrue. There was a lot of optimism about it then and further research was eagerly anticipated. I haven't read his book myself, and have had to rely on what others had said about the matter (some unknown and others reasonably trustworthy) and the consensus appears to be that there has not been the research to justify his claims.

Where more substantial and respectable research and follow through did occur was with Dr Prudden (50s-90s) and his research on bovine cartilage in the treatment of wounds, breast cancer and arthritis.
I haven't been able to find any references to research papers to Dr Prudden's supposed claim re success with enteritis which I saw as the possible connection to helping prolapse as I find for the most part an upset tummy is the main problem for my prolapse. Without an upset tummy (probably pancreatitis), Christine's posture and exercises are sufficient remedy. My diet (including bone soup) avoids upsets, but every now and again....

On reflection the pain in my hip coincided with an uncharacteristic sugar (fructose) binge which resulted (I think) in rapid weight gain and diarrhea. So, I do not expect my hip pain to return this year (fingers crossed) as I have ceased this aberrant foolish behavior and thus remedied most of these side-effects since August.

What I don't like about shark cartilage is the claim that it prevents angiogenesis. If this claim is true, I would be very doubtful about taking it. I am suspicious of supplements/medications that interfere with the body's natural processes. That said, I can understand anyone wanting to interfere with a 'natural' occurring tumor, or abnormal growth of tiny capillaries that destroy cartilage as in arthritis.

However, my husband taking statins has found that he is now very low in HDL and my own experience with Actonel combi produced very uncomfortable and scary side effects. And, of course that is the other feature of shark cartilage that worries me that its side effects are mostly tummy upsets.

What can I say Little bit? My consideration of shark cartilage supplements seemed a good idea at the time and I was so touched by your story and encouraged by your success with them. But I realize now that shark cartilage, if its supporters claims are true, is not in the same league as taking a Vitamin C for a head cold.
Best wishes

Hi Fab,
I am so glad that you got back to me on this even though you have decided not to try it. I am a firm believer that we all need to do our own research and come to our own conclusions. I have researched shark cartilage too and I've also read Lane's book (from the library) and he does make some wild claims that just don't seem to be true. Yes, it has been proven that sharks do get cancer. Cancer patients that are being treated with shark cartilage do take huge amounts of it. Yes, it is said to prevent angiogenesis (process of growing new blood vessels) to tumors but there are also reports that it does not harm normal blood vessels.

I've always had what has been referred to as a weak stomach and taking one capsule of the Twinlabs shark cartilage morning and night has never bothered my stomach at all. There were also years there that I cut back to only one shark cartilage capsule at night and it still controlled my arthritis and carpel tunnel pain. It has been the last couple of years or so that I really started taking it haphazardly, every few days or so. It was when I completely ran out and realized that it was possibly helping with my prolapse too that I started again doing even more research on it. I found that it does help with connective tissue repair and it was a connective tissue disease that my horses had. I could not find any claims at all on the Internet saying that shark cartilage helps prolapse problems but since prolapse also has to do with connective tissue, I believe without a doubt that it does help.

I'll update my own condition now. The feeling of the "bulge" has still not came back and I still seem to be improving a little each day. I am taking the one capsule of Twinlabs morning and night. Starting the 1st of February, I plan to cut back again to the one capsule at night and see if everything stays the same or gets worse. In the very near future, I plan to start taking a product from Springtime, Inc. called their Tonic Blend for people. This has some really benefical stuff in it including their chondroitin sulfate. It was their chondroitin sulfate (J-Flex Concentrate) that I also gave my horses. Their products are of high quality and their tonic blend doesn't have glucosamine in it. Nearly all glucosamine comes from shellfish and I know that I can't eat very much shrimp without it having a bad effect on me so I prefer to use a product without glucosamine. Their chondroitin is from a bovine source and is highly concentrated. When I start this routine, I'll take one of their tonic tablets in the morning and the shark cartilage at night.

Something that I learned just recently having to do with the stomach. I've always loved cornbread but in the last 10 years or so (I'm 66), it has seemed to bother my stomach. I have found that by adding about one heaping teaspoon of arrowroot powder to my batter that it no longer bothers my stomach at all. I even add the arrowroot to my hushpuppy batter and stone ground cornmeal makes the best hushpuppies in the world. As a bonus, the cornbread doesn't crumble all over the place. If you search "arrowroot benefits", you should come up with the benefits to the stomach.

Back to the shark cartilage, I have only seen good side effects from it, no bad side effects at all. I do try and take care of myself. I stay in WW posture as much as possible. I take my morning and evening walks that are about a mile with my little dog. I do use the inversion table nearly everyday for about 15 minutes but I will never invert all the way. I have done my own research on that and don't feel that it is safe to invert all the way (upside down), especially for a person my age. I only do a 45 degree angle at the most. I drink a green drink each day. I prefer Kyo-Green but there are several good ones out there. There are other supplements that I take too but shark cartilage is one that I will continue to take for the rest of my life. I saw with my own eyes what it did for my horses and it has been nothing short of a miracle for me, as it was for them.
Little Bit

Thank you for your understanding. I trust you realize that I believe everything you are saying about the shark cartilage and I appreciate that it is the ligament connection that you are following through on and it makes sense. I am on a different path at the moment. What I wanted to alert you to is a site http://stabilizedricebranresearch.com particularly under patents pending "Methods for treating Joint Inflammation, Pain and loss of Mobility" (for humans and horses). You may find it of interest (if you have not already found it yourself). They talk of administering a stabilized rice bran derivative and a fortification agent (glucosamine). I know shellfish are off limits, but would be interested in any conclusions you may draw from this research.
best wishes

Fab, thank you so much. I had not read that and I did find it very interesting. The phenylbutazone (bute) that was mentioned is what was given to my mare for about 6 months with no results. It sounds like the stabilized rice bran derivative would be a great alternative to bute. Bute causes all sorts of problems in horses from ulcers to death. These are anti-inflammatory products though and the DSLD/ESPA disease that my horses had was not an inflammatory disease so that is why the bute just won't work for any horse that has it.

What I found even more interesting on the main page under "White Sheets" under "Joint Health, Supplements for Joint Health" was the report on glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate. I was glad to learn the purification process for chondroitin sulfate destroys BSE. That has been a concern of mine for YEARS and one reason why I haven't taken it myself. Springtime's chondroitin sulfate is a 50 to 1 concentrate as opposed to dried cartilage powder that is often sold as chondroitin. I don't believe there are any other brands that are that highly concentrated. I know their product really worked for my horses. It is their Tonic Blend for people that I intend to start taking in the near future. It contains their concentrated chondroitin sulfate plus a long list of other ingredients.
Little Bit

I should have added to my previous post that BSE is Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (Mad Cow Disease), so that anyone casually reading my post will know what the heck I am talking about.

These reports are dealing mainly with degenerative joint disease but the glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate also helps connective tissue. I don't recall any mention of concentrated products so it would be interesting to know the quality of the products that were tested. I have found over the years that some of the really high quality products cost less in the long run and do work, especially with shark cartilage. I have even bought Lane's shark cartilage in the past but found that the same amount didn't have the same effect as the Twinlabs. I couldn't use it for my horses though, only for myself, because it was caplets instead of capsules. I guess I could have ground it up but I decided after using it for a short time and my arthritis pain came back that it wasn't worth the trouble. At one time there were many testimonials on the Bell site about Bell's Shark Cartilage and that would be my second choice if I could no longer buy Twinlabs. Bell's isn't concentrated though and from the testimonials it seems that the people taking it are taking much higher doses than what I took or what I gave my horses. Also, I saw results in my mare in only 48 hours and in about 12 hours for myself. It seems that people taking the Bells are not seeing results before a month or so. At one time though they had pages of positive testimonials and I'm sure they were all true.
Little Bit