prolapse of vaginal wall

I'm not sure exactly how one would definitively separate this from prolapse of a pelvic organ? unless you mean say, the vaginal wall is stretched out and therefore more saggy than before?
I think the posture not only pulls the pelvic organs up so that they don't push the walls out further, but it helps align the entire body, redistributing all your fascia, which in absence of surgical (or other) trauma should be one continuous sheath.
so yes, I think the posture and exercises should be helpful.

that said, there are no guarantees with anything. and not all of us will be able to reclaim our 19 yo perfect pre-baby vaginas. I know that I've had tremendous success with this program, even though I still have the bulge and my vaginal walls are saggy. while I expect to continue to see positive changes, I highly doubt all the sagginess will ever go away.

Dear Judith,

I am so sorry you are struggling. How far progressed is your AS...is there any spinal fusion and how long have you had symptoms? You might ask your physio about the mat exercises in the FAFP dvd, as they open the spine beautifully. I would of course do them very slowly, not up to the lively tempo we have them at.

Even though we recently heard of someone’s doctor (can’t remember who at the moment) telling her she didn’t have organ prolapse, but prolapse of the vaginal wall, I (like Granolamom) question that assumption. The thin, soft vaginal walls are made of highly specialized cells arranged in spirals so they can greatly expand. It’s not like there is much there to prolapse - sort of like the inside of your cheek sagging down...doesn’t happen. The urethra/bladder neck is directly behind the lower vaginal wall and some sources refer to them as being fused, which we know is not entirely accurate either because of the fascial layers in between. My guess is that there is something on the other side of your bulgy, inflamed wall.

This area does get very tender in some women. Have you tried pure aloe vera? I think it might help. I can’t remember your pessary history, but this sort of prolapse does sometimes respond well to a ring-with-support pessary.

The best we can do is move the organs forward with these techniques. Even a very modest reduction of prolapse can make a huge difference in quality of life. If that simply doesn’t work because of spinal issues, arthritis, etc., then palliative care with a pessary, lots of soothing ointments, and staying off your feet as much as possible is another strategy. The literature is very clear that the path to surgical ‘cure’ of cystocele is strewn with hazard.

I wish there were simpler answers, but each one of us must find our own best way through the difficult maze of loss of pelvic organ support.

{{{hugs}}}

Christine

Hi All

Jackie, I have bizarre dreams all the time. Sometimes I wake exhausted because of the busy night I have had! Then I'll tell DH what I have been dreaming about, and he just shakes his head and gets up and runs away. I think his nights must be pretty boring. All fours? Now I come to think of it I was down on all fours quite a bit yesterday evening, cutting out fabric because the table was in use. Hope your week full of visitors goes well.

Judith, another trick that helps is when you want to go back a couple of screens, or click on a Link, open another Tab in your browser, so you have 2 Wholewoman Tabs open at the same time. Use one for what you are writing and the other to navigate around the Forums, or outside sites. Get three going if you have to. I have started doing this a lot, and it makes it so much easier to keep track of where you were, and it saves waiting time when you are on slower connections.

Cheers

Louise

blissedout
Hi judith , just spotted your message re prolapsed wall. I have just posted my comment including the the same problem plus issues following rectocele surgery so don't feel alone but let's hope that someone has some answers. I have thought of trying the electro stimulation device offered by incontinence clinics for strengthening pelvic floor muscles and perhaps someone could tell us if this would help to 'pull back' front vaginal walls. I used it to help repair my rectocele but it just made my pelvic floor very strong and the rectocele remained 'moderate', as this problem is connected to saggy tissue rather than muscle( I was told by the surgeon) However, when you do normal 'pelvic pull ups' you can definitely feel the wall go back.

Good luck with yours Judith

elspeth

blissedout
Hi Judith
apols for the delay - I use library computers and have to book to use.
I can't find my first message either! ( am new to all of this) but I really wanted to find anyone who had succumbed to surgery in my first post ( rectocele surgery that is) and then found themselves with something else -like a prolapsed front vaginal wall and cystocele!) I am doing the keegals and have booked the use of the electro stim device used in incontinence clinics - perhaps you would find this helpful as it really strengthened my pelvic floor last time but unfortunately didn't 'touch' the rectocele.

I am returning to the hospital where I had surgery in Feb tomorrow and hoping that the internal does not reveal any further problems - to date, i wish I had stayed with diet control which I believe is good for all prolapse probs. They say that you learn from your mistakes! - I read Christines first book and still after 8 years with a rectocele which wasn't that bad, I decided to eliminate it - we can't turn back the clocks but can learn Christine's way - that is- the journey back to self healing!

Good luck again judith and also for your reply to mine - I must investigate this sponge idea further but where form?!

Bye for now

elspeth

blissedout
Hi again Judith

Many thanks for info re sea sponge - at some point I maay try this concept. My hospital appointment was slightly reassuring in that eostrogen tabs for three months was recommended to restore elasticity of walls and I am now quite sure that the surgery has made a sensation of falling ( the pack of card syndrome)so i can only work with what I've got! Yes i have a strong pelvic floor too but the nurse I spoke to today said walls can be restored through 'normal ' exercises - I hope so!

Library closing so must close too

Good wishes

Elspeth

blissedout

Hi judith - a bit of extra time - apols for rapid typing and errors! Checked message after I'd sent it!

Elspeth

Hi Elspeth

I wonder what the nurse meant when she said "the walls can be restored through 'normal' exercises"?

L

blissedout
Hi Judith/louise
Yes - I thought that was confusing information as 'normal' pelvic floor exercises are keegals!(aren't they?) I went to see another consultant re my concern re the emergence of this prolapsed wall problem following rectocele surgery and he prescribed small eostrogen tablets to insert into the vagina which apparently restore the walls to a more elastic state. ( I am the other side of the menopause so this could contribute to the problem, though I remain in search of anyone who has experienced additional problems following surgery as I have - do you know how I can put this out as a general question for anyone similar?) If any other post op sufferers read this though please get in touch - I really don't think that the emotional aspects of proplapse are fully recognised and addressed by surgeons/medical profession.(what do you feel?) I think it can be very 'mood' lowering to be in the dark over these strange symptoms which we women experience so bravely.

Elspeth:-)

blissedout

Hi Christine

I e-mailed you some time ago following a rectocele repair which continues to throw up problems! I wonder if vaginal wall prolapse accompanied by a small cystocele ( the pack of cards you mentioned and I ignored -help!) can be helped back to its correct( or more correct position) with the exercises in your book 'saving the whole woman' or are there additional more helpful ones? I returned to a senior surgeon( not the original who operated) and was possibly, like yourself, following discovering a uterine prolapse (not expected) gobsmacked at the response - i.e. 'yes, sometimes in pulling one wall back, the other will be unsupported and fall!!' Vaginal pessaries were prescribed and I am frankly not convinced! I just take heart in the fact that you came through all of this with knowledge and exercise etc etc and therefore that all things are possible.I find the emotional aspect of prolapse the most difficult one to cope with in that wholeness seems somewhat a distant illusion and also that 'the medical profession' don't seem to acknowledge it at all! Whatever happened to the Holistic model?! I cannot believe that I ignored all of my recent degree level study - orthodox versus alternative and can only assume that there will be some hidden learning in all of this.

Christine , if you know of any other women who have taken the biomedical model route and had rectocele surgery ( also had an enterocele but wasn't told!) could you direct them to my account. I'm new to all of this and not sure how to put out a general 'cry for help' I feel that the forum is doing a lot of good in helping to support emotionally where there often is none! ( as far as I can see anyway!)

Loving wishes

Elspeth (blissed out)

Dear Elspeth,

Bless your heart! Please don't punish yourself by thinking you should've known better...almost every woman on this forum was standing in line for surgery when she arrived here.

First things first...can you find out exactly what was done from your op report? Also, what are your major symptoms?

Take a deep breath. We will help you work this out.

Christine

blissedout
Hello Christine
Thanks very much for your reply - yes i have been beating myself up abit re having the surgery at the end of Feb this year.

You mean I can ask for my op report? ( I remember now reading in your book that you got yours.) If so that's great - I am to return re the effectiveness or not of 'vagifem'( estrogen pessaries which i was told would alleviate some of my symptoms which are

- after driving and standing up i feel rectally 'challenged' is the only word i can use here - like it is swollen up and 'full'of concrete.
- Also when i bend down, I feel a dropping sensation of perenium/labia - just a really yuchy sensation which i DEFINITELY did not have pre this surgery! The comment at my 8 week check up when i asked 'why' was -'don't know! we don't offer face lifts in this department!!!'( No comment- but here is where the despair set in, as you can imagine) I have used these estrogen tablets vaginally and so far feel little change being convinced that the op has caused this caving in of the anterior wall plus the appearance of a cystocele - my doc said a bulge has DEFINITELY appeared not there before( which i knew) and the senior consultant some weeks ago diagnosed vaginal atrophy which can be treated. I wonder why I have vaginal atrophy post op and not before! I feel sure that he was just trying to placate me as he said he felt that I was angry and let down - you bet! ( from your book Christine, I know that you can empathise with this!!)

blissedout

Christine re last post - couldn't get page to go to bottom to complete message and sign off - in a library.

Many thanks for all support of this forum - it's SOOO supportive

Hope to hear from you re what to do next!!?

Elspethx

Has anyone had any luck with sport tampons?
I wore one one day to work to help with the fall out feeling and seemed like it worked, just felt a little irritating all day. Today I put one in and felt sick to my stomach, not sure if because it was scented, (that is all the store had) or because I am getting over a uti.
Also any good things on sea sponges? Thanks ladies

My natural path told me to use vitamin E down their and seems to help when I use tampons. It seems to help with the irritation I have.