Dr. Oz featuring pelvic organ prolapse

"a secret so shameful"
"many women have gone untreated for years"

I wish they would call me up and ask me to be on the show :):)

Did anyone see "The Doctors" on Monday? I was at the gym watching it while doing the elliptical trainer, so I missed part of it, but Dr. Lisa had a segment called "Ask Dr. Lisa" during which a woman in the audience asked her about how things have changed "down there" since having a baby - how things look, the sounds that air in the vagina makes, etc. Dr. Lisa's answer was totally vague, talking about how normal it is to have stress incontinence and how things stretch out and get damaged, and how sometimes, I'm quoting to the best of my abilities, "the uterus falls out of the vagina". She recommended talking to your doctor if you don't like "how things look" down there because there are things that can be done to fix that. Holy cow, was I angry, not only because of the implication that surgery is the answer, but because her answer was based on how things look, which to me is basically saying that you need to fix yourself if your vagina looks like hell. REALLY???!!! What about how a woman feels, the discomfort, the pain, etc. I'm flabbergasted.

Christine, you should have been invited for sure, to let the audience know, that there is another option ... just as Louise's 'The Two Doors' clearly illustrates.

FYI: I just called them to let them know about you and your holistic work towards living with pop, and the person that I spoke with, and the person that listened to me for about 15 seconds, responded with 'uh huh' 'uh huh' and 'uh huh' ... and then suddenly the phone went dead.

Bottom line: No doubt, this person, whom I was transfered to, and is affiliated with Dr. Oz and his 'pop' show that is to air tomorrow, knows full well about Christine Kent and wholewoman.com, obviously does not wish to include the wholewoman alternative.

Pity!

just watched the blurb, and blahblahblah.
I kinda wish they wouldnt' call it 'the shame of prolapse'. its obviously 'for entertainment purposes only' as their disclaimer states and not meant to actually educate or help anyone.
money makes the world go round, which is the real shame here.

I just realized I missed the show, but in a way I'm happy I didnt' see it. it would probably just make me mad.

what a horrid way to
describe prolapse.........

i'm not a big dr oz fan
to begin with but man!......

however...i am a huge proponent of
doctors not dealing with anything
*they* haven't dealt with themselves...
like all things in life....unless you
walk in *them thar'* shoes...you
surely don't KNOW a thing about
whatever it is!!!!!!!!!!

the only shameful thing here is
the way this is being advertised
and promoted!!...and the fact
that somehow dr oz can't end up
with prolapse himself...hehehe...

warmly......susan

What he says is true. (Irrational) feelings of shame do surface for many women who regard youthful physical perfection as a necessary requisite for keeping a man happy. Wha???

I don't like the accusing voice in the blurb.
I don't like the fact that it is male either.
I don't like the fact that the women portrayed in the blurb are all lit very harshly, and unflatteringly.
And I don't like the fact that none of them are stereotypically beautiful. This is a strange comment coming from me, the hater of all stereotyping, but the fact is that prolapse does not only happen to women who are 'ordinary'. The most airbrushed celebrity coverwoman in the world might have POP, for all we know. It can go with good looks too!
And what about those of us with POP who dance and sing, and do all that other happy stuff in spite of it?

And Shame on Dr Oz for using the word 'shame' in the same sentence as POP. As if it isn't hard enough as it is to discover that we have POP! I hope people are put off so badly by the blurb that they won't watch the program, because I do not think they will learn from it!

Stuff and nonsense, Oz. Get back in your burrow, ya creep!

I get what everyone is saying on this forum, but I don't think Dr. Oz is necessarily saying that POP is something that we should be ashamed of, only that women do feel shame about it. This is a societal problem - women have historically suffered all kinds of things without admitting it. I am very vocal and unashamed about my POP, but that's not because I have heard the message from anyone else in my life (other than my awesome husband) that it is okay to be that way. Why, at 38 years old and just having given birth, had I never heard of POP before, when I now know that 2 of my sisters have it, and my mother has had multiple "corrective" surgeries for her POP? I read all the pregnancy books, I am an intelligent women with advanced degrees, so I know how to research. So why, then, had I never heard of this? Because women ARE ashamed and don't talk about it. I think we may be judging too quickly. I will be interested to see how this topic is handled on the show - a friend will be recording it for me. I feel almost a little positive about it, actually, because I feel like many women who would otherwise not have known what was going on with their bodies and never had the nerve to ask their doctors about it may actually learn something, do some research, adjust their lifestyles, and finally reach out for help with difficult tasks from their spouses and and other loved ones. I don't think everyone will rush to surgery - I know many women with POP who have never heard of WW but are still totally anti-surgery.

I will admit that the preview is a little over the top in terms of its sensationalist approach, but it is TV, and it's no different than previews for the evening news, Dateline, 48 Hours or 20/20.

I just watched the three videos, 'The Truth about Pelvic Prolapse' on the Dr. Oz website. Not as bad as I feared it might be, but a better title may have been 'Some partial truths ...'. Sadly, no mention of non-surgical treatment options other than pessary and kegals (although they did mention pessaries before surgery ... small comfort but at least going in the right direction). No mention of postural implications. But then that's hardly a surprise, is it. Maybe I will watch the actual show, I wasn't going to but now I am curious about what else will might be talked about.

I totally agree with you, Christine. I wasn't expecting much when I set out to watch, got exactly what I expected (NOT MUCH). However, after the that intro blurb about the SHAME of POP I was mostly relieved to hear it talked about as a natural occurrence. Although I seriously doubt many have their uterus fall right out - they did make that seem quite common which I found weird at first. But then, looking at it from a surgical-doctor's slant, if you can scare women into thinking that's what's going to happen if you don't 'fix' it, it all begins to make sense. sigh.

I had a rectocele repair in 1995 that left me in a terrible state of repair. Following surgery, it was impossible to poop. I ended up seeing doctors to have them "scoop out” my ... well ... my “poop," and from there, had a battery of tests including the swallowing-of-magnets-to-track motility study … the insertion of balloon things into my rectum to determine nerve function anal sphincters. I pooped on a heated throne (the glorious “defacography"), was charted as having problems stemming from "hysteria," and finally -- after 11 different appointments with more doctors than I can remember, was invited to enjoy the ultimate privilege of being seen by the Head of Gynecology at our local university hospital ... who asked that I return with a full bowel (that I might poop for him in stirrups).

I did.

It was then, and only then, that Dr. Gynecology diagnosed a perineocele. In 1995, I was told this was quite a rarity, and a situation of some cause of "celebrity," because Dr. Gynecology had been conferring with doctors between UCLA and Johns Hopkins, etc. ... and there was little he could offer in terms of a further "repair" that didn't involve an illeostomy or colostomy, that doing so would require additional surgeries, and in the end, in all likelihood, the condition would likely return.

Then ... in 2006 I had surgery for kidney cancer.

Guess what? The incision herniated ... it took weeks of complaining that something had "gone wrong" before docs would believe me. Eight months after this ... I had a second surgery (through the same 11-inch incision in my side). The surgeon declared that things in my abdominal wall were in such a state of mess, all he could do was dissect the scar tissue and adhesions, and patch my middle with mesh. And then? The mesh detached from its anchor in my ischium.

I'm now in constant pain, and can't get along without use of abdominal binders day and night. I have mesh roaming in my middle without anchor. My waistline has expanded to 46 inches ... and I can't do yoga, because I can't torque, pull, stretch, tug, or put any kind of pressure on the left side of my body. (I also can't run, jump, do aerobics, or ride horses ... which was something I'd done as a professional -- because you need the solid integrity of abdominal musculature working in harmony … “core strength” … as a protective mechanism for keeping everything inside your middle intact and safe … and I don’t have core integrity.)

Now I feel a cystocele developing. Intercourse is painful. My whole body feels it's falling apart.

* * * * *

Yesterday I went back to see my female OB/GYN, who commented – given the history noted above, that my fascia seems predisposed to herniating.

This is something that was noted by another female OB/GYN in 1995 -- who remarked, "I don't know why, but very often us freckle-faced blue-eyed blondes (which she was) have crappy fascia." She went on to say that she had a rectocele as well, but following my experiences, she was likely to leave "well enough alone," and not entertain a surgical "fix."

Tomorrow I'm going BACK to Dr. Head of Gynecology (and reconstructive surgeon) at the university -- and WTF?

It seems while the "cystocele" which yesterday's doc mentioned was "only" at a stage 2 -- which is fine by me -- the issue of perineocele leaving stool pouching below where it can easily exit my bottom is a problem.

It’s become impossible for me to evacuate my bowel fully without use of digital splinting, gylcerine suppositories, or a rectal syringe. Apparently (according to tests with balloons), there is also nerve damage in the anal sphincters which make bowel function a tricky matter.

What to do now?

Re. Dr. Oz's framing of this issue around the theme of "shame," I am not ashamed of myself or my condition, nor do I mind talking about "poop," "feces," "evacuation of the bowel" or other such matters -- even to the point of discussing with boyfriends that intercourse is tricky, that I need lost of lubrication, and … well … while I don’t go into great detail such as I have above, referring to surgery in terms of likely resulting from tearing or weakening of vaginal wall that occurred from trauma from child sexual abuse -- somehow, I've been able to get along.)

I am new to this site and have seen mention of a $50 DVD, but don't know that I can afford this. As mentioned, I can't do a lot of yoga (or pilates) because of the fact that muscles on my left side have been severed (and then patched with mesh, which has now detached from anchor).

For a period of time, I was seeing a comp-med physician who assured me that nerves would indeed grow back and eventually enervate denervated tissue. That severed muscles would then (eventually) reconnect and “meet in the middle.” I spent a ton of money on Lion’s Mane Mushroom (thought to boost production of Nerve Growth Hormone), but after all these years? Today I believe the hole in my side is never going to go away. I don’t believe nerves in this area are ever going to magically enervate and assist in connecting muscles that have been dissected and left in a state of mess.

Sick and tired of being sick and tired in Wisconsin. Ugh! I'm sorry to introduce myself and my issues here with so much belly-aching, but if anyone has any suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them ...

Otherwise ...

Sad and drooping at age 57
Using rectal syringes, and wondering ... what’s going to come next?
Temmie

Hi Christinabf

Sorry about my rant, but it made me so angry, hearing this man reinforcing the shame that so many women with POP feel, and using a dramatic voice, as if admonishing somebody (Which? The woman or the judgemental world. It is a very ambiguous and manipulative voice.)

Yes, the shame is a very real feeling. That is the point.

As if they need to feel any more shame, or have that shame validated in the name of creating a waiting list for their surgical services! It is not rational shame. These women have not done anything that they should be ashamed of! Shame is an inappropriate emotion to feel. It is drawn forth from somewhere else deep in their past to confuse them.

If the subject of the blurb was diabetes or heart disease or depression, would we accept all this talk of shame??? No, I don't think so. It wouldn't make sense. Why does it make any sense with POP?

Well, there goes another rant. Please don't take it personally.

Louise

:-)

Louise, they do treat obesity that way sometimes though right? :)

Yes, you are probably right. I didn't express very well what I was trying to say, which was that shame is irrelevant. The two sentences, "I feel ashamed", and "You ought to be ashamed" go together. Blame is in there too, and 'shaming and blaming' is a tool that has been used throughout history to exclude and ostracise those who are different, and 'not as good as me'.

We also think it is cruel to talk publicly about the shame of being obese, or the shame of having not looked after our heart health, or the shame of abusing your brain by taking too many acid trips. Why is it OK for someone on telly to talk primarily about the shame of having POP?

We can get over any shame about POP. We can laugh in its face.

The shame is far less important to a woman than the fear of our pelvic organs coming out of the body through the vagina, the embarrassment of leaking urine, the pain and discomfort or malpositioned organs, the health-robbing of constipation, and the fear of losing enjoyment of sex, or even losing out on sex altogether.

Using the word Shame is a cruel marketing ploy designed to appeal to our lower level thinking. It is about submission, and being put down the pecking order because your body is not perfect, and finding the false messiah who can save us from eternal damnation and give us eternal life. It is the same stuff as cosmetics, cosmetic home improvements, the latest gadgets, and all those things that will get us more love.

It is nothing to do with educating women, empowering women, making women proud of their bodies, and thankful for their bodies. It is about putting them down there, and promising that their little op will 'save' them from being at the bottom of the heap.

We humans are such complicated creatures.

Maybe I have missed the point.

L

My sister messaged me to see if I had watched Dr Oz yesterday. She knew I'd be interested. I hadn't but was curious to see what he had to say. I mean....WHAT? they are actually going to talk about it? LOL No one talks about it! Ha! I watched the short clips Pt. 1, 2, & 3 on the web. I wasn't surprised by what was said. Same thing, different day. As soon as I was finished watching, where did I come? To you all & of course as I should have know, you already knew. :) I agree w/women feeling shame about it & it never being talked about. It's good they are opening up the topic, but WHY not have holistic health as part of the discussion?? So sad & unfortunate. :(

Dear Temmie
Don't know whether you have had much time to read up on this site. I'd like to suggest it is not just about the exercises Christine has developed. It's about understanding what has gone wrong and you certainly are on top of that. It's holding the posture as much as you can, this in itself is difficult and tiring for everyone and you will find it more so , but it does build core strength. It's looking at diet so that evacuation (both bowel and bladder) becomes less stressful and painful. This area you have probably already looked at in some detail. (you could be the teacher here.) It's looking at diet so that you eat what you need to eat, to nourish and sustain your strength, taking supplements if needs be. It's about learning to be kind to yourself, relieving your pain and distress as much as possible not ignoring it all and getting on with it. It's about letting it out in a supportive environment. It's knowing you are not alone in an unattached world. It's about listening, empathy, ideas and knowledge. So much learning occurs here.
You have been and are going through hell right now. There is no golden rule that will remain the case in the future. And if there were, you sound a bit of a rule breaker anyway. Suffering is another country and if you are angry now you have every right to be.
Here you have put that aside in what you have written and have declared you want to concentrate on what's next.
I have no knowledge to answer your questions about 'enervating denervative tissue'. Others here might. Perhaps, there is something for you on the active forum 'How I'm feeling now'.
Be assured people on this site will offer help and knowledge if they are able.
Best wishes

I’m not sure what to say here.

I am seeing this response for the first time today (and assume my “Aside from Dr. Oz” message was deleted). It was an angry post, which I felt bad about after writing. I’m sorry if I offended anyone. I truly am.

In any case, I happened to catch the Dr. Oz segment yesterday afternoon, and also found it helpful only in the sense of bringing “pelvic prolapse” issues into the conversation of whole-body wellness. I suppose the one “super kegal” was somewhat helpful. Certainly it would have been a better service to devote more attention to non-surgical interventions (and to have removed all the “shame-shame-shame” elements).

Shame is not a helpful emotion, of course, and repeated reference to things that bring us down … only deepen the spiral, which I’m sure most of you know.

I don’t remember whether I noted in earlier correspondence, but I had a rectocele repair in 1995. This surgery caused permanent nerve damage in the anal sphincters, and didn’t address the matter of “perineocele,” which wasn’t discovered or correctly diagnosed until 11 different appointments with a variety of specialists.

Incidentally, I still require use of digital splinting, suppositories, or rectal syringe to fully evacuate rectum during bowel movements. Scar tissue (and surgery) have left my vagina too small as to be adequate for intercourse. Ugh! I got along with my body much better, of course, before this surgery (and today, things are "15 years kind of worse").

Yesterday I saw the Director of Gynecology at our local University Hospital. He is a nationally recognized expert on matters of medically-complicated gynecologic consultation, with a practice that includes pelvic reconstructive surgery and complex gynecologic surgery. (He is also the one, after those 11 appointments who finally diagnosed the perineocele, which in that day, wasn't very well known or understood).

Perhaps the same could be said for today!

This revisit with “The Director” was a humiliating experience. He did not listen to my complaints, questioned my comments, “What do you mean by the term abraded?” (“It feels like there are lacerations or tears in my vagina that feel like an abrasion. They hurt, and it stings when I pee”), and followed a rubric that involved inserting a speculum, then poking at my vagina “around the clock,” so to speak, with a final diagnosis that I had “vulvodynia” (chronic pain associated with posterior side of vaginal wall) that could be corrected with:

1. Painful steroid injections,
2. Use of the tricyclic Amitriptyline, or
3. A resection of the “vestibule” with a 75-percent success rate. (Or perhaps that was a 75-percent failure. I can’t understand his notes.)

Nothing about this exam approximated intercourse (which is painful), and which is why I went to see him (in addition to discussion of "pouching" due to perineocele). If “The Director” had just inserted his FINGERS (or allowed me to do the same), I could have shown him exactly where the bulge is on my anterior vaginal wall, including what appears to be a ring of scar tissue (resulting from rectocele repair). This makes entering my vagina a matter that requires generous slathering of lubricant, with sensitivity and care associated with repositioning to get around “bends” or tight spots in my anatomy.

I was so disappointed, I came home and cried.

I’m an adult survivor of child-sexual abuse, so if my first post sounded a little hysterical, angry, or outrageous, please keep this in mind. It is impossible to go through experiences of “something’s wrong,” and “no one is listening,” and “no one is helping,” without feeling some level of stress arousal. I also find it interesting, that at both the “beginning” and “end” stages of my life – I am dealing with matters of pain in the intimate and personal part of my body -- and the humiliation of not being understood (or having my complaints dismissed or discredited.)

Fortunately?

I have found this site.

In the late afternoon following this appointment, I also had a “she-called-me-at-home” generous discussion with my referring female OB/GYN … which was of enormous help (just to be listened to, and to have had my feelings validated! To be able to share my thoughts with a medical professional about where and how the “experts” fail … and – well, again – to have my feelings, physical and emotional – validated …. This was of tremendous benefit).

Isn’t it true -- in the end -- we must all take responsibility – as caretakers of the forms we inhabit – for ensuring we give our bodies the necessary nutrients, exercise and kindness our physical (emotional, spiritual and psychic dimensions) deserve.

Perhaps this is the life lesson behind all of my issues. Learning how to “listen,” and then learning how to be responsive and responsible for the outcomes I hear in terms of recommended directions and solutions.

I appreciate your note, Christine, and do apologize again if I offended you or anyone. I’m grateful for your referral to the “how I’m feeling now” site, and … in the spirit of women-helping-women … terribly grateful for this site.

This morning I found the video that opened with images of women doing plies, releves, and (if I remember correctly from the ballet I took at age 9), to-the-side tendus.

Perhaps a dance class is in order? I will look. And I will read. And I will take our discussions into account here. Thank you, Christina … and all … for the many avenues for whole-body wellness which I believe I’ll find in this forum.

Again, with gratitude,

Temmie

Repetitive.

Temmie -- No, your original post hasn't been removed. It is a very moving piece of writing. Thank you so much for your openness and for sharing your experience.

I'm afraid you may have missed Christine's original reply to you since she removed it. Christine, I hope that you will send it to Temmie privately if you don't want it to be on the forum. It too was extremely moving, and inspirational. A poem, really, deep, and full of pain and life. I think Temmie would want to read it.

(Temmie, I believe another forum participant, not Christine, suggested another topic for posting under.)

To both Temmie and Christine, I can only say thank you for allowing your experiences to become part of other women's consciousness, and thereby to inform the decisions that we make. I "suffer" with a pretty severe bladder prolapse, but my "suffering" is negligible compared to yours and to the millions of women who have had invasive procedures go awry. I have discomfort, but discomfort is different from pain. Please know that my thoughts, prayers and gratitude are daily added to the cloud of support around you both. I'm glad you've found each other.

With love,
Ellen

'I am seeing this response for the first time today (and assume my “Aside from Dr. Oz” message was deleted). It was an angry post, which I felt bad about after writing. I’m sorry if I offended anyone. I truly am.'

Nope, it's still there! and don't even dream of offending here, we are thick skinned and besides, how could you, talking about you and your life experiences?

Temmie, Christine deleted her own first response and left a replacement response :)
Your situation is so complicated and there is so much to respond to- and I think for some of us, it hits in a very deep place. I have hesitated to respond simply because it would take me at least half a lifetime to figure out what I want to write. I have been thinking about you though and even wanted my dh to read your post so I could have someone to talk the contents over with.
First, I will admit that it's more than interesting to me that you suffered abuse as a child and again abuse as an adult. It's tragic. and I hate it. and it scares me that there are people who hurt children and that there is an entire institution that supports mutilating adults. Please don't get me wrong. I know how we got in this mess and I do appreciate the life saving aspects of our current medical institution. Nor do I blame any one culture, gender, or society for the state of affairs (at times I am tempted).
Christine, you put something out there- and then you took it back. I'll admit it is very very alternative thinking- those things you wrote. But when you look at the mainstream, what the heck? right? alternative has got to be better than Temmie's most recent humiliations and her past humiliations. I can't imagine an alternative type of medicine that would even consider this type of torture without very good healing associated with the torturous treatment.

Temmie, I don't know what you can do besides seek an alternative path. If you can't do yoga, then you really can't do dance either. If you can walk- that's where to start. Every day, in the posture, go as far as you can go and try to go a bit more each day. Keep watching the free videos and look at yourself in the mirror and work hard to get the posture right.
Yes, food can heal. To the extent that you need it? I can't guess. It's one of those things, once you take the body so very far, it is unkind to expect nature to bring it back. All you have is hope for healing. Where you will find that healing? I have no clue. I sure hope it's out there for you though! and I believe it is.
More than a few years ago (and what seems like a lifetime) I took my own health and the health of my family into my own hands. This doesn't mean that I don't use the services of the medical profession. What it means is that I am the ultimate authority. I choose. I decide. I research and agonize and in the end, the one who benefits or suffers is me. This is as it should be.
Anyone who wants to know could go to the library and read and learn. No formal education necessary. I'm getting my education from the school of life.
You have a long road ahead of you. I suggest getting extremely serious about learning all you can about your condition, your past surgical procedures, and your body (anatomy!!! physiology!!!). While you are doing that, something will speak to you. Be ready to listen.
I am so sorry for you most recent horrid experience with the doctor and the exam. I hate that he chose not to listen to you and that his diagnostic practices hurt your body. You are in charge of your body. If anyone is hurting you, doctor or no, you have the right to command that person to stop.
You have the right to say "Take your hands off my body right now"

It's very annoying to find a cystocele. I know, I've found one before ;) But it's fine in the end. Get your body in the posture. Do that first. Then start your search.

A coworker who knows I feel no shame in my baseball -llike prolapse which has not yet been looked after (as does a lot of the 300-400 people i work with ( NO SHAME) advised me to watch the famed Dr Oz

What the hell did you see the humungous vagina thru which he poked both a prototype bowel and bladder and stated that ( and showed a pre-cut slit) these organs would wear thru the vagina!

He should be take offf the air. The air head female doctors were of NO help in understanding what solutions are there

I have a date to get the infected mesh out of my pelvis after 3 years of putting up with it . The one doctor appologized most sincerely for the time it took the system here in Canada to finally give me an appointment.

Anyway I am appalled at how complicated we can get and this Dr Ox has no business being in medicine with such a inane presentation of such a disease!

So much information here ... thank you, Christine!

I need to print this out ... and clearly to read, reread, think and digest, etc. Very interesting to hear your discussion, of course, and to be in a place of benefit as a result of your research ... and your alternative approaches to good care. I look forward to reading your article, of course!

I tend to write fast, "off the cuff," and without adequate thought. Again, let me think, read, digest, and think more. I'm very pleased to be with you here, and to absorb as much as I can (as quickly as I can), as issues with bulging and prolapse (now of the anterior wall) ... along with what has long been an issue associated with tightness and scarring due to surgery ... have now made intercourse painful (if not impossible).

Surely there is a better way. I do look forward to learning more here.

Incidentally, "The Director's" office called today to confirm that I have a yeast infection (that should help with some of what I referred to as "abrasions," and "stinging while peeing"). I hope treatment with Fluconazole doesn't further muck up the works of the delicate balance one associates with whole body wellness.

I am also curious to learn more about recommendations for (or against) Estrace ... especially with respect to my being a cancer survivor (and as an aid to addressing the vaginal atrophy associated with aging). Hmmm. Here I go again (off the cuff). Please excuse my ignorance -- and as this is such a wide forum for the discuss of Whole Woman Wellness -- please -- feel free to point (or jab) me in the right direction(s) for how to get started. I am very grateful for your good care and kind words.

With love and with blessings,

Temmie

Hi Temmie

When you take the Fluconazole I would start a month course of a good quality probiotic as well. This will help to repopulate your whole system with healthy bacteria. You may have had antibiotics at some stage which have killed all your own good bacteria off along with the bad bacteria. That is one of the reasons why we often get thrush after antibiotics. The good bacteria are needed to keep the candida in check.

We really are not one organism at all. We are really a walking, talking ecosystem, with many organisms living on and in our bodies, helping to digest our food, preventing bugs from invading our skin, etc.

The issues you are dealing with are complex. Just take baby steps, one at a time.

Louise :-)

Dear Louise,

So glad I checked in this morning. Regarding your comments on probiotics -- of course .... (Of course!)

Thank you for the reminder. Currently I'm using Florajen3 on a daily basis, but am happy to supplement with a daily dose of Kombucha or Kefir. :-)

So appreciate the wealth of wisdom here. Thank you Louise. Thank you, Ellen, for your earlier note ... and thank you, Christine!

The issue of "surgical fix," and surgery, indeed, being a matter of insult, injury, and trauma has been a thing I've learned the hard way. The issue of removing the kidney due to cancer ... perhaps could not have been helped. Or perhaps there were alternative courses I didn't think of at the time. (Freezing? Intensive prayer? I might have insisted on a laparascopic approach, instead of open flank, if nothing else. Oh well. Oh well!)

The matter of having a permanent injury (from the hernia repair that followed tearing after surgery) ... is a constant reminder of the complexity of the human organism. And of course, we aren't one sole physical organism, but body, heart and mind ... spirit, emotions, soul, and so on.

I have found a soft landing in this site. Thank you all. Am still so new ... and still haven't found time to investigate all the resources (including, Christine, the paper you mentioned authoring). I was quite intrigued with your last note to me (Christine), and have printed it out to read and think about. I am ... one of those ones ... who has to have paper in hand to digest new information.

Will look for the paper, the article you mentioned -- and to all who read here -- blessings ... love ... gratitude and thanks --

With love! I appreciate you.

Temmie

This writing is repetitive.

Christine ...

You are so beautiful ... and Ellen ... and all ... again, my gratitude for the sharing of your wisdom, and all the supportive kindness and encouragement I find here. Coupled with nuts-and-bolts explanations of anatomy (thank you, Christine!) with knowledge of "whole body" awareness and "whole body" intelligence; this provides a helpful backdrop for understanding "what to do" when this harmony has been ... let's just say ... "interrupted." It is my belief, if and in all ways possible, the body will seek to restore balance.

I'm still picking my way around here, trying to find what I need for "next steps." Again, appreciate the "soft landing." It is beautiful to sit down, slow down, and breathe deeply in your company.

Temmie

to the beauty of your words here, Alemama ... and the content of your big heart this message carries. Thank you, dear one. Temmie.

My writing is repetitive. T.

Temmie, some of them are in the Theatre, and some of them are in Christine's Cottage. All are free to view.

Louise

:-)

This post is no longer relevant.

I am wondering if there is anyone on board here who has ideas to share about “whole woman” function with regard to bowel-health. Is there anyone with perineocele who is currently using digital splinting to assist with elimination? Or not doing same, and uncomfortable with that “fullness” in rectum (where stool is not aligned with anus for full elimination) who uses glycerine suppositories with splinting, or – as I currently am – “rectal syringe” to assist with this process?

Beyond that, is there anyone with hernia repair who could write me privately (or openly) about matters of tearing? Like the swimming of fetus so many of us remember from pregnancy, I can feel “swimming” of food stuffs moving in the lower left quadrant of my belly … where I imagine fascia between intestines and skin is thin (or non-existent behind mesh that has torn free from anchor).

I am afraid of my whole body coming undone. Am I writing in the right place for help, support, feedback and ideas?

Incidentally (Christine, and All), when I wrote earlier of matters of “core” with respect to Valsalva maneuver, I might better have said that doing ANYTHING that requires some level of abdominal work – my physical movement is hampered because I do not have “whole-body” integrity in musculature around my core. In addition, having tried riding … as I once worked as a professional, and I thought simple, subtle/supple movement of say – following footfall of trot in seated position (as opposed to posting trot), I awoke the next day in full musculoskeletal spasm, requiring trip to ER, because, I believe, the nature of “core” in the sense of the musculature that absorbs, deflects against impact, and protects inner organs, etc. – was not able to handle the shock of that simple two-beat movement … and all that “trot, trot, trot, trot,” impact ricocheted up my spine, causing damage and spasm at base of skull.

Ouch!

In short – I'm looking for feedback on two things:

(1) guidance and suggestions re. managing bowel function would be appreciated, and
(2) ‘what to do’ suggestions with respect to feeling movement of foodstuffs … perhaps signaling need for another surgery … are of current concern.

Thanking you all,
Temmie

Dear Temmie

Only a horsewoman would think a trot would be light exercise! No, I think you should start a bit small. Now a sofa seal like me has no difficulty in considering making the bed, washing up the breakfast dishes, hanging out the washing as a bit of light exercise. Once I get into mopping over a few floors, scrubbing down the shower stall etc, it's becoming a bit uncomfortably moderate. The 2 k walk in the afternoon and the hour's labor in the garden, should see me sleeping pretty soundly. (All done in WW posture is essential for prolapse.)

What would you think of a bit of aqua exercise where the water will support a large part of your body weight? This would be a gentler, kinder exercise (not necessarily boring) and your strength will come if the healing is happening.

There are (exercise) machines which you stand on passively (read a book) as they vibrate which build bone density from the soles of your feet upwards. I don't know how expensive they are, but your doctor could refer you to a medical clinic or gym.

As to splinting there has been a lot of talk regards this on site. Have you searched via the search box?

There is a lot of information on this site and the contributors to forum have a lot of ideas which can prove valuable. No-one is going to have exactly your problems but there will be some very similar. Take what you can and use it. Ultimately you will have to work through it all.
best wishes

on the sidebar on the left you should be able to see the word 'forums'- go there and pick the one that's best for your new topic. That way the post will come up as unanswered and new and you will get lots of responses.
I remember there was someone on here that used digital evacuation (with a glove on) maybe try searching that.

Yes, Alemama, I have seen the other forums, and have done key-word searches on my issues. Will continue to do so. Thanks for your continued assistance. T.

... for your long and cheerful response! I have done searches in the "Search this site:" tab. I will continue to do so. Thanks again for your good care and kind words, T.

Hi Temmie

I am thinking about the fact that your abdominal muscles are no longer able to maintain that sausage shape that our abdominal cavity is supposed to be. This is allowing your abdominal and presumably your pelvic organs as well, to move out of position.

I am wondering if it would be possible to have a custom support garment made that would act as prosthetic abdominal muscles. It would have to have a degree of stretch in the same directions as TA, RA and internal and external obliques, and possibly be anchored down, perhaps to a stretchy trouser leg or something similar, so it could contract to a degree useful enough to compress your side to almost match the uninjured side, but also have a rigid extreme that it could expand out to, and prevent your injured side blowing out and allowing your intestines into extreme positions.

Perhaps you wouldn't have to wear it all the time, but during and after meals it might guide your intestines into the correct configuration to allow your rectum to fill.

I don't have much to offer in the way of ideas for guarding the perinocele, but I think if your intestines were better supported higher up there would be less outward pressure on your perineum.

I know that, in Australia, heavy lycra pressure suits are custom made for burns patients. These are designed to be worn for extended periods of time until healing is complete. They support the healing skin, and prevent scarring and contraction of skin tissue. Perhaps something similar would keep your innards aligned better?

I really have no idea if this would be workable, and I wouldn't like to give you false hope, but I thought I would mention it anyway. I guess you are a veteran of false hope, and are able to dope with this possibility. Hugs to you, Temmie.

Louise

Thank you, Louise, fabulous idea! I have contacted "shapeware" manufacturers, and custom-corset designers with response, but, ultimately, without success. I have also worked as a professional seamstress, and have wondered if it would be possible for me to manufacture something on my own. For that matter, with a 46-inch waist, I've considered flipping through an equestrian catalog and looking at pony girths! Clearly ... there must be a solution.

At present, I am using standard medicinal 10-inch elastic binders with velcro closing. I am so "round," however, they often pop off before I can get my pants on. Or ... as elastic stretches and becomes misshapen ... have suffered the consequences as twisting velcro eats through undergarments, and even tears holes into my skin. It's amazing how much pain and discomfort women are able to endure. And, yes, yes, yes! Clearly there must be a solution. Let me try again.

In terms of perineum and bowel function, etc., I am resigned to use of a rectal syringe. It is the only thing I've found that assists in complete evacuation of bowel, and I will write more about this in another time and place (space?) for those with questions about digital splinting, use of suppositories, and supporting compromised perineum during bowel movements. It is not that big of a deal. Most of us who have raised infants do not have a problem with "poo" on our hands (I'm sorry, I don't have time for rubber gloves!) There is always (most generally) soap-and-water available for clean up. Unfortunate. Messy. Not the end of the world.

Beyond that, I strongly recommend fiber supplements, and/or a diet with adequate fiber, of course. I'm sure there is quite a bit of writing to be found here on proper nutrition. As always, my thanks ... to all of you ... for your time, caring, support, and brilliant, well-meaning, and thoughtful suggestions.

I feel I've done enough writing now, and would like to just be quiet for awhile and "listen." There is so much good to be found here. Again, ever so grateful. Temmie...

we had a discussion here once about pp binding. You could search for it in the search engine....

Christine, I hadn't read your post when I happened to see the Oz show that featured prolapse. I was very surprised but pleased, but I wondered why you weren't also on the show! I think we all should contact the Oz show and urge them to give you equal time. --keh

Christine, I just noticed the date of your post about the Oz show. The show I saw just last week must have been a rerun. In spite of your absence and the obvious slant toward urogynocology, I was glad to see some attention given to the subject of prolapse. --keh