Possible bladder infection - but not sure???

Hi Lilly Anne

Yow, not nice! I have usually found that a urinary tract infection will cause urgency, rather than simply the need to go frequently. It will also be accompanied by discomfort or burning or stinging both during and after urination, although frequency, then urge are usually the first signs.

I would suggest a visit to the doctor. If possible get a mid-stream specimen just before you walk out the door to go to the doctor, or ask the receptionist for a sterile jar when you get there and use the toilet at the surgery. (The trick is to get a midstream specimen without pissing yourself or getting caught between toilets. <:->

Ask for it to be cultured as well as the normal indicator test for protein in urine, so you get the right antibiotics if indeed it is a UTI. Having said that, I am no doctor. I have just been through the routine a few times!!

Good luck.

Louise

I think with the prolapse there are many times I experience this...
Just happened last night...went and then walked around doing something and had to go again--almost the same amount--just a couple of minutes later! I thought it must have needed to change position to be able to go again and I--EVERY TIME I GO...lean forward all the way to the floor and I also rise up--trying to fully empty but alas...walking is what helped!
I don't have any signs of infection at all but I do go to the bathroom as often as possible knowing I cannot "store" urine for 8-12 hours a day now...ha! Used to ! Which was never good I guess but you do what you can until you can't--human nature!
When I am at work I go every break! If I feel it or not and there is always something. ALWAYS! I don't like it I guess but with prolapse the bladder is able to do things (hide and move!) it couldn't before--so I have to change what is comfortable--and for me it is using the bathroom probably 3-4 times more often than I was used to...Like when you are pregnant...

I recognize your symptoms. When you go to the doctor ask him to rule out Interstitial Cystitis. I have it. Its really aggravating too! But there is treatment that can make your symptoms disappear. I'm not a canidit because I'm nursing.

Its not a good idea to hold your bladder for long periods of time. This is what caused my IC. (And drinking lots of coffee, in my case.) Over extending your bladder for long periods of time will stretch the bladder walls breaking down the natural lining thus, creating ulcers. This will make you feel like you have to pee all the time but you can't void because there is nothing really in your bladder. And your UTI test always come back negative. Also, its good to keep in mind that having a high acidic diet will irritate the ulcers in the bladder. Its unfortunate when we who have IC think its a UTI and guggle down tons of Sweeten Cranberry Juice. Very bad!

I wonder, with a cystocele, the bladder being dropped to the point that a complete void is impossible therefore there is always going to be a little urine left. This is a breeding ground for bacteria. Bacteria thrives on sugar! So people with this condition is prone to infections? Just a thought.

Good luck. Keep us posted. I hope you feel better.

~FW

Hi Lilly Anne,

This frequent urgency is what made me realise something wasn't right in the first place, and is how I found out I had a pop.

My physio explained it to me really well. She said that because the bladder has dropped, a bowl instead of a flat base is formed with the prolapse. She said because of this urine gets trapped around this 'bowl shape', which is why when I go I can't always get rid of all the urine, and therefore have to go again 15 minutes later. Correct me if I'm not explaining it anyone, but that's the general idea.

Her advice was to lean forward on the toilet to eliminate as much as I can from my bladder. She said to rock my hips back and forward 6 or 7 times to try and get some more out. The rocking doesn't help me much, but may help you. I tend to just push my weight further over my feet and can sometimes get more out then.

She said cranberry juice and getting rid of the caffeine from your diet can help too - because they create a type of chemical reaction that gives you the frequent urge to go. And of course the good fibre and lots of water diet.

I know it's not always recommended here, but a few pelvic floor exercises can help with being able to hold out longer.

She also said a bit of 'brain controlling the bladder' work can help which has been the best with helping me. I often say to myself during the day 'I am in control of my bladder.' She also suggested while I'm home that I try to hold out as much as I comfortably can to re-educate the bladder to go less often. She said, excuse the description, but 'hold onto yourself' a little while at home to help with this.

I still have bad days but things have improved and I can hold out longer. I hope some of these things might help you. Any questions, let me know.

it is normal to pee 2X an hour if you are drinking a lot. I think the problem is when the urge is not accompanied by a normal amount of urine.

oh lilly anne, i know what yu mean. i am postpartum. i stopped breast feeding so that things will possibly get better with my cystocele. it seems that yes, all of my tissues are plumping up and making the sensation of the "hanging" seem less. but it is still there. and if there is any recession...is that right recession??? that it is now putting pressure on my urethra and i feel the urgency to pee, UTI sensation. so one thing feels better, another worse. i too want to feel normal. i think many women on this site have learned to feel normal...or cope with something that may never be normal. to all of you out there...please don't be upset with that comment, but i think many of us don't ever get better...we just learn ways to cope better....

I'll be completely honest..I'd like to give back my new normal too. jsnyc is right, at least about me, I've learned to cope with a new reality. my cystocele did not improve all that much, what's changed is my mindset, coping mechanism and most of all, management style.

but back to you...

I hope the pee thing goes away. you know as well as anyone else does, that your mind can do this to you too. I see that with my dd, she's got an anxiety disorder and runs to pee every two min when she's worried. but then she worries about having to pee on the busride to school and it goes round and round until she gets on the bus. and can miraculously sit comfortably for 45 as there is no bathroom on the bus.

If you think you may indeed have a UTI, really, don't wait to get it checked out. I ended up with a nasty kidney infection a few weeks ago that way.
I saw uti tests at the pharmacy recently, they look like pg tests, you pee on it and it somehow tells you if you have an infection.

in anycase (((Hugs))) to you
you're having such a tough time with the bowel and now bladder stuff, my heart goes out to you

Dear Lilly Anne,

I struggled with terrible depression all last year. I think it was primarily post partum, but the prolapse definitely made me sink further, often to the point where I didn't think I would come up again. I finally got some help at the beginning of this year because I was so tired of feeling awful and I was worried that it was impacting my girls. I am on a low dose of zoloft and I feel completely different. I know there has been discussion here about anti depressants and the negative effects they can have, but I have to say they have helped me tremendously. I feel back to my old self, I am exercising again, eating great and I feel, well, dare I say it..........normal again??!!

I truly don't believe in pushing pills, but I do believe that when used appropriately they can really help people, and in some cases are a life saver. Don't feel bad for needing help with this. You have tried for a long time to do this alone and sometimes we just can't. There is no shame or long term damage with that! If you do decide to take something you don't need to take it forever, just until you are coping better.

Thinking of you!

Love Michelle xxx

as much as I am 'anti meds' I do think they have their place.

In my case, a psychiatrist recommended prozac for my dd last year. being that she was only 7 we said no way and are trying to help her in other ways. primarily by working with a therapist who specializes in childhood anxiety disorders. dd won't go of course (too anxious!) so I go and learn how to help her learn to manage anxiety as it arises. I must say, she's made some remarkable progress in the last year. I'm a big fan of cognitive-behavioral psychology!

now, you are an adult and can make these decisions for yourself so its a bit easier (hard for me to know what dd would want to do). maybe meds for a bit to break the cycle would be helpful. only you would know. you can always stop taking them.

whatever you choose to do, we're here supporting you, know that.

I agree G.mom. I was a nurse on a childrens behavioral health unit for several years and I was appalled by the overuse of some very potent psychiatric drugs in children, some of them very young, in lieu of other more holistic therapies. This was pretty much the reason I left in the end. I am sure many of these meds are not good for very young developing brains. Once the brain has developed, well then I believe it is different for some but it still shouldn't replace therapy of course.

I've worked on child psych units too
I'm a cynical and judgemental person by nature, though I do try not to be. I think that most if not all parents are well meaning. some are ill advised and some are ill equipped to handle/raise a child with a psychiatric problem.
we are dealing with *only* an anxiety disorder. I have no doubt in my mind that if dh and I were not well educated, informed, outspoken and sure of ourselves, dd would've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, adhd, odd and a host of other syndromes by now. of course, she'd be on a cocktail of drugs.

It is not drastically different from dr's recommending surgery for POP across the board.

it is up to the patient to research the pros and cons, and to really determine what you can live with. I would rather take my dd as I know her, and work my *ss off helping her than drug her now and gamble with her developing mind. I know that for some, that isn't an option. my dd isn't hurting herself or others.

same with surgery. for me, I'll take what I have and work with it, knowing that the possibility for improvement is within my reach. for some, the symptoms may be unbearable, and the risks of surgery are acceptable.

and there's another group of people out there. not everyone has the stamina it takes to work with these sort of problems. let me tell you, raising a kid with an anxiety disorder is not for the faint of heart. I'd take a prolapse over that any day! just my luck, I've got both, lol.
and for some, paying attention to diet and posture is too much. I don't really understand why, as it strengthens one's body and spirit and overall health, but I do know that is the case for some people.

I admire you greatly G.mom, you are such a very good, loving Mom!

The new "buzz diagnosis" in childrens behavioral health is bipolar disorder! It seems it is the default diagnosis for any even slightly wayward behaviors. Don't children/ adolescents usually exhibit wayward behaviors? Isn't that all part of growing up and learning who they are?

I completed one of the questionnaires which was being used by a Dr where I worked to "aid" with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder, and of course from that I supposedly am bipolar which I most certainly am not!!

I always struggled with advising the parents about what might be best for their children, and yet trying not to be in conflict with my role as a nurse. There are some very good psychiatrists out there, and some terribly awful ones, just like surgeons for POP I gues! Anyway, sorry, got a bit off topic but interesting nonetheless.

G Mom and Lilly Anne,

I work with very young children, and part of our pledge to our families is that we don't expect or want any of our kids on personality medications. We want to work with them in the natural state, and if parents want this too, we're the place. Can't tell you how many children have come off drugs at our school and stayed off drugs. A lot of times it's the environment. Children respond so strangely to the most normal circumstances. A child's anxiety is often caused by his perception that mom or dad is also a fearful person. Apples don't fall far from the tree! By changing our own behaviors, the child is able to change his/hers as well.

As for the symptoms you guys have described, it could be hormone flux. Sounds like what happens during perimenopause. Why not get a hormone balance done. It could be too little progesterone. There is a site called Women to Women which talks about this.

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

Many of the commonly prescribed SSRI's such as zoloft, paxil, prozac, and celexa, although used for depression, are also often used for anxiety. If I were you I would see a psychiatrist, not simply a family Dr for this. It is not that family and other Dr's aren't very often expert, just that psychiatrists are specialised in prescribing these meds all the time and looking (hopefully, if you find a good one), at other measures for treating anxiety and depression. They also do specific assessments and follow up. It is worth finding a GOOD one though like always with Dr's.

A med which may work for someone really well may not work for you and it is really a matter of trial and error to find one that works, helps, and does not cause side effects such as those you mention.

It would be entirely irresponsible of me to recommend one for you because I don't know your history, and I am definitely not a Dr. I would take the time to find a Dr you like and trust, try to get some recommendations if you can. My counsellor recommended my Dr and I like him a lot. I did not feel like he was pushing the pills, just trying to help. He also recommended exercise, diet, therapy, and rest as part of the treatment, all of which I have followed. I think you mentioned that you have had counselling, perhaps your counsellor works with a particular psychiatrist and likes them.

I REALLY struggled with whether to take meds or not all last year. It was not something I did lightly as it went against so many of my philosophies in life. I simply got sick or trying to pretend I was feeling OK when I wasn't. It was just so exhausting in the end. However, I am planning to wean myself off my med under the advice of my Dr the next couple of months or so. It has served the purpose, and I have been on it for over six months now. I never intended to be on it for a long time, just to get over the hump as it were, and this has been achieved now I think.

Good luck Lilly Anne! :)

i may have missed some of your earlier posts which may have helped me understand your situation better. i am a clinical social worker and i think your best bet is to see either a psychiatrist, or see a therapist (psychologist or social worker) and get a prescription from your PMD only if they are knowledgeable about psych meds. if you go on an SSRI it is a daily pill, for a certain length of time. and as the other post said, it is for anxiety and depression and they all work differently for everyone. (including any side effects, it can be very individualized). another option is a benzodiazepine ( ie. valium, klonopin, xanax or ativan). they are specifically for anxiety. are taken on an as needed basis. i had a bad experience on an airplane, and take klonopin to fly. has no major side effects, except maybe some drowsiness depending on the dose. so which med you use depends on whats going on. however, i feel strongly that you shouldn't just take a pill, and should consider some therapy to work through what is making you anxious.

Question:

Why is it taboo to alter the bladder and not taboo to alter the mind? Is this a generational thing?

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

i think you are comparing apples and oranges here. invasive surgery compared to short term medication and therapy?

Hi Clonmacnoise

It is an interesting dilemma. How about this argument? The mind-altering effects of drugs wear off (Yes, they vary in how long they take to wear off, and there can be longterm side effects too, but...). They can also provide support to a brain to enable the person to function relatively normally while they address other things that may be a problem for them. They are a crutch that can be useful, sometimes for a period of time, sometimes for a lifetime (as a longterm Bandaid that contributes to quality of life).

Bladder surgery doesn't wear off at all, ever. It always alters the basic geometry and structure of the pelvic organ supports and predisposes the pelvic area to further problems of the same type. We don't know how many women actually experience further problems, particularly in the longterm. I guess for some women bladder surgery contributes to quality of life.

That's why they are not the same.

Nothing is black and white. That's why we need to allow women to decide, each for herself, what course of action to take on anything they bring to the Forum.

Cheers

Louise

YES

dh and I are both anxious people

I applaud the work that you do, we need more people like you working with our children!!!!!

when I have a couple more brain cells functioning, might I email you with some questions?

I actually think they are similar, as I posted earlier.

I wonder also, if the mind altering drugs wear off as easily and completely as we are led to believe. could be they do, I've done no research on this, I'm just wary.

and everyone else.....I think I understand the desire to be free from anxiety. And what I am going to say may sound really uneducated to you all- try not to hate me....Why are we all so obsessed with "normal" maybe I have more anxiety than someone else- but I am sure I also have less than others- aren't these subtle differences what makes life interesting?
I think as long as you can get out of bed, do your job, move your body, use your brain, laugh at something you find amusing, love your pet- etc. then it is possible to deal with the uncomfortable feelings of worry and sorrow.
There is so much pressure put on us women to be perfect. I feel that pressure every day. But man, if I want to be sad- even for a few weeks does that mean there is something wrong with me?
The act of living isn't always easy. It isn't perfect. We get sick, we develop chronic conditions, we die.
If a woman feels anything less than tip top the world is out there to remind her that feeling better is a pill away.
I am not judging anyone here. I understand each person needs to do what is best.
I also know that the meds are there to help. I know they are extremely necessary to some.
The brain is an amazing organ. Anxiety is real. It has a real purpose to the survival of the human race. Soul crushing, agoraphobia producing anxiety is the natural response gone haywire.

Lilly Anne, I see you searching for the reason for your bladder irritation. Could it be the worry compounding the symptoms? Is it physical? Is is caused by another physiological factor- such as your IBS? These questions are all so multifaceted.
I have to wonder....are you doing anything fun? Do you have something to look forward to at then end of a long day- or week? Can you meditate? Do you get massages? Good book? I know this is prying and I don't expect an answer. I have been reading your posts for months now- and I think of you sometimes.
Be well woman. How ever you go about it.

Wow, this is another subject about which many of us have empassioned opinions! All good stuff! :)

With the greatest respect Judy, it is not taboo to "alter the bladder", it is a personal choice, just like "altering the mind".

Sometimes, people such as myself who have tried all natural avenues to "alter the mind" and still feel absolutely horrible, still feel like staying in bed all day, still cry endlessly, and still have problems relating to dear children and spouses, finally accept that they need some help. In cases such as these drugs which "alter the mind" are entirely appropriate, and often as I mentioned in a previous post, life saving.

Anyway, how are these drugs that "alter the mind" so different from drugs which would be given to alter a hormonal imbalance for progesterone such as you mentioned in a previous post? Drugs are drugs, whether naturally synthesized by the body or not. They are all chemical.

No it is not a generational thing, just a personal thing. :)

I agree, we don't all have to be normal
but sometimes a higher level of anxiety is not just not typical. if it impairs function, well, that's another story.

I can only speak from my own experiences, but in my dd's case we were strongly pressured to medicate her but chose to first pursue non-pharmecuetical methods. and luckily they are working. I guess if this wasn't working we would at some point have to consider meds. its just not ok to have a child panic in school at the thought of being called on, or making a mistake on a spelling test. I don't mean worry about it, I mean panic attack. that's not the same as 'more anxious than most'.
so I can relate to those who are hesitant to use meds, and to those who feel they need to.

and like the personal choice to have surgery for prolapse, one needs to go into that decision aware of potential side effects etc etc.

I don't think either is taboo here, only that this site is geared towards helping women learn to manage prolapse without surgery and has nothing to offer in terms of anxiety disorders, depression etc. so maybe we speak more freely of psychiatric drugs since that's not in conflict with the fundamental philosophy of the site.

hey lilly anne. you definitely have no reason to defend yourself. some people who don't expereince as you call "true anxiety" will not understand the option for medication. psychiatry is the treatment of a disease, a chemical imbalance...not just "being stressed out" as some people think. combined with situational stress...it becomes unbearable. many people take aspirin, tylenol, etc. for pain and think nothing of it. many people take vitamins when there is no true evidence to support that they do any good or that we even know what we are actually buying because they aren't monitered.
a diabetic has to take insulin to replenish "chemicals in the body', so how is that imbalance different then an imbalance of seretonin, dopamine, etc. etc. its just that anxiety and depression can't be measured the same way. i am sure some day they will be able to measure this through CAT/PET scans. its not an easy decision, no one wants to pop pills. i wish you well.

Sorry, my Internet service was down for a few days.

I posted the question about altering because there seems to be an intensity to protect the natural on this site, and that's why I read it.

When I saw the posts about antidepressants, I saw a hole in the argument that seemed incongruous. I don't think anyone on this site is looking for a quick fix, and couple that with the fact that all medications make you feel altered from the natural state, it seems as though we're being careful with one thing but not another.

Having witnessed children drugged for any number of reasons including mild retardation, I shudder at the thought of using mind altering drugs and wonder if it's a generational predisposition to distrust what alters the mind. I remember electric shock treatments and lobotomy, and have witnessed what drugs can do.

On the other side of the garden, every human being is endowed with eleven passions. We choose to make the most or the least of them. Anxiety is part of fear. Its antithesis is courage. It is not a bad thing to be fearful; none of the passions are good or bad; they are neutral.

The way I look at it, life really amounts to working with the natural state and understanding that we are flawed as humans. Making the most of our gifts and understanding how we are flawed will get to the trouble zone a lot faster and a lot more permanently than putting a medical bandaid on.

As the survivor of brutal child abuse and a very difficult marriage, I've experienced a lot of anxiety and a lot of fear. It's really hard, so I sympathize a lot, but then I also think hard things will make you strong.

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

Judy, alot of what you say resonates with me
I think that the use of psychiatric drugs in children is a completely different thing than when informed adults choose meds.
I've seen kids drugged up for the sake of the adults around them, no one wants to (or is able to) step up and do the work of helping a child learn to manage their out of control anxiety (or whatever the issue is).

the question is, how do you know how much capacity there is to make the most of our gifts, understand how we are flawed and function? If function is severely impaired, its possible I think, that the ability to make the most of one's gifts to address the root of the problem and heal to some degree might be limited.
no, we don't all have to function at the same level, we don't all have to be 'normal', but I can imagine a scenario where one might benefit from a short term use of a drug to manage anxiety.

I really didn't think judy was judging your choices. I read it as a more general type of conversation, though thinking about it now I can see why you feel it was directed to you.
I'm sure no one meant you any disrespect.

Lilly Anne,

My heart bleeds for you. I understand completely, and I wish you all the best. Whatever you do, my prayers and the prayers of my little school will be with you. My questions are not "aimed" but sorting. I hope you understand that. I hope you get some relief. Been there.

Affectionately,

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

Dear Lilly Ann,

My heart goes out to you! I had actually forgotten that I experienced anxiety attacks when I had IBS back in the late 80's and early '90's. It wasn't until you mentioned the anxiety you have that it all came rushing back to me. I had IBS so bad, I got to where I wouldn't go anywhere. I also had collapses in the colon - so to make a long story short - I had to take a medication, but not for anxiety (I don't think). One was Donnatal and one was Bellergal - neither of which I'd really recommend to anyone. Yes, it relaxed my guts but eventually did make me dysfunctional and I almost gave myself a heart attack trying to wean myself off of them. It was roughly a one year road to recovery, but I made it with such success that it was forgotten! Do be careful and understand the side effects of whatever you choose to take. They really can cause other problems. And no, I didn't have prolapse then, don't think it caused the prolapse, and really believe it's a separate issue; however, if you have a rectocele, I can certainly see where the IBS would aggravate that.

I wish you the best in your choices and if you need a little extra help, feel free to let me know.

Love, hugs and blessings.
Grandma Joy

Lilly Anne,

At my little school we have a mission for all who need our prayers. From the mouths of children, God finds perfect praise. You are at the top of our list. God Bless you in all you do.

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

Dear Lilly Ann,

It seems to me you are on the right track with what you are doing. Trying to eat correctly, exercising and seeing the psychologist. I ultimately saw an internist who discovered that I had a collapsed colon. We took care of that with the medication then slowly re-introduced food one item at a time, then I saw a psychologist for about six months. I didn't want to at first cause I didn't believe I needed one but the internist explained how I "was burying emotional pain in my gut". A neighbor who was a nutritionist dittoed his statements. I also had the mind numbing, body freezing panic attacks during the time I had the pain. These also went away by the end of the sessions with the psychologist.

It is a slow process, but I think you can get a handle on it - it just may take longer than you want-just keep on keeping on.

Love and later,
Grandma Joy

...that is great! At least now you know there is not a physical thing causing the IBS. I hope the psychologist is showing you how to do biofeedback with whatever emotion is bugging you. If you learn to do that, you can throw off the negative emotions and it's really not that hard to do - just hard to remember to do it and do it on a regular basis. It will give you emotional freedom from that plus emotional freedom from the prolapse. When we accept the prolapse, we can move forward with other things, even though we know we will have ups and downs with it. Most of the time, I don't even notice my prolapse, yet the golf ball is there everyday. If I ride in a car too much, stand too much, or lift something too heavy, everything seems to fall and give me the bulgy feeling and I may get a little constipated - BUT I ALWAYS remember it will change in a few days and be back to where I don't notice it, and I do not necessarily worry about it. I do notice when I get a good chiropractic adjustment, the golf ball is a little higher for a few days.

Your food is essential in eating as organically as possible. I've discovered there are so many chemicals in the food, (this can be verified in many places on the web, such as www.organicconsumers.org), that cause multitudes of digestion upsets, not to mention other dis-eases of the body. And, this all goes hand in hand with Christine's advice on eating whole foods and becoming a WholeWoman!

I very highly recommend a good probiotic, preferably one that is certified organic because so many of them on the market either have chemicals in them or they are processed with chemicals.

I hope this has been of some help to you. Did you get my email? I sent one of encouragement thru WW.

Hugs and blessings,
Grandma Joy

i too have ibs and your internist
put it into words for me..

burying emotional pain in my gut...

a life time of it..that is still
continuing...

i so hope to get it under control
along w/*loretta* and some
other issues...

i believe the whole woman approach
will be my answer...

thanks...

warmly.......susan

Hi Susan,

I know about that lifetime of emotional pain, too. I just had lunch with four wonderful women friends, three of whom work in the healing arts. We met to start spinning dreams of a body-mind-spirit healing spa. Broken hearts need more than facials and massage.

During our conversation someone brought up this wonderful presentation by Jill Bolte Taylor, which I would like to share with all of you.

Hugs from Christine

Wow!

for writing the note and letting
me know you *know* how i feel..

however ..i am sorry you have
to know...and have this kind of pain too...

i sooooooooo love the idea of
a body-mind-spirit healing spa...

and again you are sooooo right
that broken hearts truly do need
more than facials and massage...
which are not my faves at all....

thanks for the presentation too...
off to find it now...

all you do and your true caring make
many of our lives much for bearable..livable......

warmly........susan

i just finished watching jill bolte taylor's presentation...

and i am in awe and speechless..and in tears...

how beautiful! how amazing! what a woman....

thanks so much for sharing...

warmly.....susan