How can you tell what degree of prolapse you have?

Submitted by Wise Woman on February 3, 2011 - 1:43am
Body: 

Would somebody define what Levels 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree pelvic organ prolapse involve?

I have been told by this female urogynecologist, who, of course, would financially benefit from giving me a hysterectomy, that my POP is "severe," and I need a hysterectomy, after she tried to fit me with several kinds of pessaries, none of which would stay in. She did not give it a "Level."

Lately, my prolapsed uterus and bladder, and Irritable Bowel Syndrome all seem to have gotten slightly worse: I have much more frequent urgency to pee and it is much harder to get to the toilet in time without having an accident.

Lately, I have had more frequent semi-diarrhea-like IBS symptoms, with increased trips to the toilet for this, as well...maybe because I feel so stressed from the increasing pressure from my primary care Traditional Western doctor, as well as the ob-gyn surgeon, to have a hysterectomy.

I can feel my uterus very heavy and low, weighing heavily upon the inside of my perineum, having lowered a few more millimeters, in the past few months, I'd guess, I can see it when I hold mirror up to it. I feel a lot of fear/anxiety that it may just fall completely out of my vagina, along with my bladder and intestines. Is this very likely to happen????

Is it "3rd degree POP" when it does???

Having just discovered Saving the Whole Woman and the Whole Woman Village Forums, etc., I am becoming much more aware that probably what I need to do is provide myself with much more very fresh, organic produce, especially dark green leafy vegetables, whole grains and beans, nuts, Omega 3 oils, learn the Whole Woman Posture and exercises, take Christine's suggestions about clothing, as soon as possible.

I have been living on disabiltiy for a number of years with the goal of healing more in depth from the trauma of extreme domestic violence, and I am grateful for some of the resources I have been able to benefit from in my quest for wholeness and wellness; at the same time, the system which delivers this "help" is very much permeated by harsh, insensitive, impersonal, bureaucratic treatment based on patriarchal values and thought-processes that feel very, very oppressive and violent to me. Since they do not provide enough food stamps to actually feed oneself for the entire month, I am forced to go to emergency food banks, where I can only get divitalized food. I have lived in several subsidized housing
apartment buildings where female residents are subjected to massive sexual and other forms of harassment.

I have training in Traditional Western Health Care, from 10+ yrs. ago, but I got further turned off to Traditional Western Medicine than I already was from witnessing the ignorance and violence with which they treated my mother when I was a child, during my training, due to the attitudes of some of my instructors.

But maybe it would be better for my health to work in this field [which still has a high demand for workers, despite the sexism and ageism I now experience as an "older [64 yrs. old]" woman? Then I might earn enough money to provide myself with abundantly nutritious food, and otherwise be able to take care of myself in the way that I choose, vs letting a bunch of bureaucrats insensitively and oppressively decide!

Maybe I could find some of the newer, more enlightened Traditional Western doctors who accept complementary medicine, to work with, or an acupuncture clinic, more in alignment with my values, as I learn more and more about natural/whole/intergrative/complementary medicine?

Or maybe I should be doing some very physically active work like food service or housecleaning, to get me back in fit shape....

Are there others out there who work and still manage to manage your POPs?

I appreciate your input, ideas, suggestions.

Wise Woman

Christine

February 3, 2011 - 12:56pm

Hello Wise Woman,

Well, the Whole Woman work is really more about relaxing than anything else. Funny, I have just very recently realized this and am starting to take my own advice.

Yes, we live in a man’s world, which can be dangerous to women in many ways. It is very important that women keep our own society, for reasons I have tried to express here. We have lost many of our ways of knowing and are at risk in the male world. Western medicine is only one aspect of the darkness (not that all allopathic medicine is dark). We are one side of a whole. We certainly need the other side, and there is good and natural overlap, but the truth is, the grave imbalance on planet earth is primarily due to loss of feminine energy, power, and ways of knowing.

So...I will try to help with your prolapse. I wouldn’t worry about degrees. We are all third degree. Fourth degree is when the urogynecologist pulls your cervix out with forceps, takes a picture of it for his website, and exclaims, “See? I told you you need an operation!”

Three-and-a-half degrees is when your cervix presses so hard on your perineum that is splits the fourchette (back vaginal opening) a little bit, causing pain and tremendous anxiety. This is when women become convinced their doctors are right. However, this too can be reversed. I truly don’t believe natural prolapse can get much worse than this.

This is what the Whole Woman work is all about.

Take a warm bath with lavender essential oil. Put on a flannel nightgown. Get down on hands and knees and do “cat-and-cow”. Sit up vertically on the soles of your feet and do “cat-and-cow”, breathing in when your belly comes forward and out when your belly moves back. This is much more effective vertically. Learn firebreathing and nauli. Stay in WW posture as much as you can throughout the day. Stay tuned for WWYoga, which will reveal our true core.

Yes, if I were you I would try to figure out how to bring your own gifts to the world. I have a dear friend who is 64 years old and getting a degree in anthropology. She wants to be a native healer and is going to school on student loans. There are many possibilities.

Love from Christine

Wise Woman

February 6, 2011 - 2:10am

Thanks, very much, Christine, for your guidance and support with this.

[I saw your reply to my previous posting asking how one can tell the degree of POP one has, and how one can manage working while having a severe POP after I'd posted another similar post a few minutes ago...]

I very much want/intend to return to school, have a career, probably as a massage therapist or a holistic healer of some kind [I have a very wide variety of interests, abilities, & strengths,] and at the same time, have been feeling fearful of doing that while having POP, so I am very glad to learn of bathing in essential lavender oil, doing "Cat and Cow" exercises/breathing. [Is "Cat & Cow" explained in "Saving the Whole Woman?" [Someone recently loaned me your 1st edition. I intend to buy your 2nd edition and one of your DVDs very soon. ]

I don't remember seeing "Cat & Cow" exercises in the 1st edition, but I have only browsed through the book superficially, so far...I will look more in depth at the 1st edition, soon, look for "Cat & Cow," firebreathing, and nauli [I found nauli videos on You Tube. I can pull my abdomen straight up, yet am still overweight in the area of my belly, and out of shape as far as my abdominal muscles go, so I am unable to contract one side of my abdomen, then the other, as the nauli videos showed, but I can at least pull my belly straight up & in under my rib cage. This is a first baby step.

I have lost about 12 lbs, and am determined to lose significantly more weight, which, I am sure, would give my pelvic organs more room to be in their original positions, if at all possible [various health care professionals have explained how the ligaments of my uterus have stretched or disconnected, they think,] but at least, the space would be available for the PO's to be where they used to be....[not to mention, lower my risk of complications from diabetes, etc.]

From your description in your reply, Christine, it sounds like I do have about a POP of 3-1/2! The back opening of my vagina has been pressed open a few millimeters or so by the pressure of my apparently ballooning and lowering uterus, which I have felt very anxious about, and like the doctors were right, that my only option was a hysterectomy.

I, also, have been coming to the conclusion, more and more, that relaxing in my body is something to continue to learn and make part of me.

I feel very encouraged to have more hope that I can heal this POP naturally.

Thanks for having the courage to talk about and share natural alternatives with us!

Sincerely,
Wise Woman

louiseds

February 6, 2011 - 8:26am

Try googling it, Wisewoman. It is very simple but hard to describe.

leapinlizards

February 7, 2011 - 4:09pm

Three weeks ago I discovered my utuerus and cervix bulging at the opening of my vagina. Of course I was quite freaked out as this is something no one in my 61 years of life had ever prepared me for. Onto the internet I went and discovered a name for this phenomenon, saw my physician the next day and was referred to a GYN for a consultation for the only options: a pessary or surgery. Well, thank goodness the GYN office didn't get back to me right away as I discovered this website in the meantime, ordered Save the Whole Woman book and video and immediately felt empowered. I have been doing the Beginning workout daily for two weeks and feel much calmer and relaxed about the entire situation. However, I've unsuccessfully searched the book and website for answers to a couple of questions which I would love to hear about:
1. I can be patient but I'd like to know at what point in changing one's posture, doing the exercises, eating well etc. does one experience a "receding" of the bulge? It's not painful but when hiking and walking I feel it irritating me, as if I had a super sized tampax in that needs to come out. I have used KY jelly to lessen this feeling which helps a little. Is this dependent on particular type of prolapse?
2. I don't know what is recommended for rectocele management. I am really trying not to strain and am aware that making sure not to get too constipated is important, but often I feel my bowels are full and pressing on my utuerus and cervix. Do I just wait it out when this happens?
3. Sex has become particularly painful as I am extremely dry and I suspect because my cervis and uterus are prolapsed. My husband is a sensitive and caring soul who wait forever but we miss the intimacy. I used to use an EST ring but this didn't help all that much and when I took it out the last time is when I discovered my prolapse. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks so much for this amazing website. Without it I would feel so incredibly powerless and alone. Christine, want to do grand rounds at our hospital sometime? I think that would be great!

louiseds

February 8, 2011 - 12:12am

Hi Leapin

Read my reply to Kstart about rectocele and winding up the pelvis, then come back and ask more questions.

Re fullness in the bowel, search for LoPo. This is about re-aligning the rectum. You might find that splinting helps too. Insert the flat of your thumb into your vagina and press back gently on the bulge. This often helps to straighten out the pipe so the poo can come out in more of a straight line. Sometimes it works straight away, sometimes not.

How long will it take? It is not a simple question because there are three organs involved, and the intestines are continually being rearranged as food passes through your system. You will probably find it is two steps forward, one step back, for a while. Then suddenly you will realise you are splinting less often, or getting less sore. These gradual improvements go on for years.

You will find that constipation is a complicated beast. You need enough water, enough soluble and insoluble fibre, and some stress management. Exercise is also beneficial, particularly whole body exercise like dance, because all your organs are massaged as you move, so they have a better chance of reconfiguring themselves to enable your bowel to empty most easily.

I am pretty sure that your sexual difficulties will resolve once your vagina is a more normal shape again. Oils often work better than water based lubricants because they persist for longer and enable the walls of the vagina to move against each other smoothly. This reduces friction and enables your body to find its best position. Woman on top often works well with POP because the woman can relax her belly on the man's belly. This uses gravity to allow the bladder and uterus to tip forwards and away from the entrance to the vagina. Just make sure you keep your butt up in the air until you have deep penetration. Once the penis is in the vagina it is a wonderful repositioner, kind of like using fingers to get a rubber glove back the right way in!

A vaginal moisturiser like Replens might also be suitable for protecting the vaginal surface if you would prefer to avoid oestrogen cream. Ordinary old olive oil works quite well as a lubricant too.

Hope these answers will keep you going.

Louise

Christine

February 14, 2011 - 6:10pm

I would love to, Leapin! :)