Reversing a Uterovaginal Prolapse including Cystocele & Rectocele

Search my comments - I think very much u are better not to have the mesh- I am recovering from its removal and now have my shield up for the sacrospinous fixation fix and really just want to try a pessarey- my cervix has been out since about 2003 and a mesh fix has made it not only worse but closer to being a medical threat than before.
I think you should try to reposition your pelvic contents as Christine proposes. Remember it all goes back in at nite...

I ordered the book today- essentially because I believe it is likley my insides are simply out of whack and need focus . PS I had ordered it over 5 years ago before I had the sacral colpopexy with mesh ( that they just painfully removed) and a supracervical hyst --- I hope to be fitted for a ring pessary which I hope I can remove and clean or take a break from - when the 4 slits in my belly from the removal back at my spine of this mesh- _ The doctor who put mesh in did not want to be bothered with pessary
The book never came when I previously ordered it but I will keep pestering this time

Welcome!
Here's the best part....there is enough information here and on the wholewoman channel on youtube for FREE that you can find out if this will work for you or not.
I do believe that you will be able to stabilize your prolapse and bring your cervix back inside your vagina. I don't know that you will be able to completely reverse it- and honestly I kinda doubt it. But you will not care about complete reversal because you are going to feel so much better anyway!
Now, I am not telling you not to buy the dvd or the book. Actually, my advice is the opposite of that! Buy it, especially if you are considering surgery. The informed consent for prolapse surgery is a joke. If you want to know exactly what they are planning for you in surgery, your risks of relapse, injury and what you can expect from recovery, get the book. It is very detailed, peer reviewed and backed up by research. You can't get any better informed consent than that.
I'm glad your dr. is not comfortable doing surgery now- with all your heavy lifting you would ruin any surgical fix for sure. Plus, you get the added bonus of time. Time to work on your diet, posture and lifestyle.
Glad you made it here and can't wait to hear of your improvement.

Hi Southgate

I can see that you are between a rock and a hard place, being caregiver for you Mum and also doing farmwork.

Having to lift a person by yourself is not good for any body, let alone a woman with POP, which unlike a back injury, is hidden, and doesn't have you writhing on the floor, groaning with pain, as if anybody would see or hear you anyway . Maybe you are stuck with this, but it might be possible to get a hoist or some other type of aid to help you. I would imagine that you have all sorts of techniques and workarounds so you keep your own exertion to a minimum.

Bags of feed, on the other hand, can be broken down into smaller bags. I do this myself. A trolley is also very useful, and you can rig up even a simple hand trolley to cart bales or sandwiches off a big bale of hay.

The bottom line is that while you continue to do heavy lifting in ways that make your prolapsed pelvic organs come down further, the damage will continue to worsen. The only way I have found to do heavy lifting is to ensure that by butt sticks out and my lumbar curve is still there at point of lifting. I was always taught to lift with a straight back. However I now see the folly in this. It is OK for men but not for women. When my back looks straight in the mirror, when I am squatting to lift, my butt is actually tucked under. This actually closes the pelvic floor outlet in a way that loosens all the pelvic floor organs (The mechanism for this is in the book). If I ensure that my butt protrudes at the back my spine is not straighter but the discs are not squashed at the front, so it is better for my spine. This is because I am female, and have a different spine / pelvis / legs geometry. Yes, I might be able to lift more with my butt tucked, but the risk of spine damage is greater, and I have less pelvic floor strength.

Oh yeah, another trick. If you can lift with the load carried low on your hips it means that you do not have as much intraabdominal pressure downwards, because you don't have to brace your torso to protect your spine. To do this, loop a rope or strap around your hips to drag something along the ground, or push it backwards with your butt, not involving the upper body. This utilises your strong leg muscles and will not push your organs out.

If you are having to lift more than is good for your body, then you need help with the lifting, especially as you are doing it day in and day out. We are so strong for once off lifts, but repeating it day in day out is slowly compromising your body.

My Mum is now nearly 99 and lives in a nursing home (in Australia), where they have by law to always have two people to lift her without mechanical aids, if needed. What does this tell you? There is no way my Mum would allow me to injure my own body in looking after her. I suspect that your mother would be appalled to know what all this lifting is doing to your body, and that she would not want you to do it.

Getting *really* old sucks, not only for the elderly person who doesn't regard being incontinent and dependent as a just reward for still being around on this earth long after others of their generation have passed away, but also for those family carers who have unreasonable demands put on them, without being resourced properly by the aged care system!!! There is not a lot the old or otherwise disabled person can do about it.

You now have a disability, probably partly because of the amount of lifting that your do of your mother. The aged care system needs to know about your injury, and needs to acknowledge that you now need help too. Please don't keep your POPs a secret from them. It is nothing to be ashamed of. You need some TLC as well. If you were being paid to work in a nursing home your POPs would be seen as a problem (I hope, where you live!). They cannot do anything about problems they do not know about.

I would imagine that providing a hoist or other mechanical aids for you would cost them a lot less than a bed in a nursing home for your mother, and would alleviate ongoing damaage to your own health, and allow you to do something about getting your POPs under control. It would also enable your Mum to live out her days with you, far preferable to living out her days in a nursing home, away from her home and from you.

These elderly people who lived through the Great Depression and two world wars are tough old sticks. My Mum's mother lived until she was almost 104, so I know my Mum may be alive for several years yet. Your mother may live for many years yet. You could be lifting her for another decade!

The other trick is to lift with your strong leg muscles, your belly not pulled in, and your chest lifted. This leaves room down low on your belly for your uterus to come forward, and for your rectum and intestines to move forward as well, stretching your rectum long and thin. Also, breathe out at the moment of lift. This prevents locking the diaphragm. Locking the diaphragm produces a lot of downwards intraabdominal pressure which will blow your organs down your vagina.

That's my two bob's worth for now. Let us know your thoughts on this. It is not up to me to tell you what to do, but sometimes practices that make other people's hair stand on end become so normal for us that we lose track of the fact that they are not good for us at all. Some difficult decisions may need to be made, and some compromises. Hope it is food for thought, and that you don't think I am being pushy and heartless. ((Southgate))

BTW, so glad you have found a good pessary, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that a little bit of plastic sitting in the middle of some soft squishy pelvic tissue is going to hold your organs up against the large intraabdominal pressure generated while lifting your Mum in ways that are probably sometimes less than perfect.

It is the way you use your own body to redirect intraabdominal pressure away from your vagina that will keep your organs inside. The pessary will help, but it is only a finger in the dyke until the whole dyke gives way.

BTW 2, yes, just before menopause was probably the worst because hormone levels are fluctuating madly, and I still got all the pre-menstrual inflammation and bloating and mood swings. I also felt as if aliens had invaded my mind, and was prone to not seeing things clearly, or having strange emotional things happen. After menopause has been better, and I am still just as physically capable, and much steadier emotionally. My heart goes out to you as you struggle with all this.

Louise

So here is my question. When doing the exercises, does the pessary need to be removed? Wouldn't the pessary be in the way of allowing the muscles to do what they need to do during the exercise process? Also, I had a hysterectomy 13 years ago and have had low back problems off and on for a long time, really, even before the surgery.

Hi Johoosier

You have asked valid questions but unfortunately the answers are not simple. In order of asking ...

All a pessary will really do is stabilise and spread a load, as it is basically just a piece of material positioned between bags of jello. Most pessaries spread the vagina wider to kind of jam the top of the vagina up high, and help it to flatten out so that intraabdominal pressure does not act down an open tube.

For a woman with a uterus she has the structural support of the uterine ligaments to keep her uterus forward during exercise, but having had hysterectomy these ligaments are no longer doing that job, so the pessary is carrying more of the load.

I don't know a lot about WW exercises for a woman who has had hysterectomy but the general principle is to use your body in ways that do not press down on the vulva. This is why we get the uterus and bladder well forward when doing anything that is likely to send intraabdominal pressure straight down the vagina and take your vaginal vault with it. This may include exercise, as it is only subtle movement in direction that means the difference between symptoms and no symptoms. Getting the organs forwards is the only way to get them out of harm's way. How your vaginal vault has been re-suspended will determine the direction that intraabdominal pressure will be exerted.

I am sorry, but I really cannot be more specific than that. Someone else may chime in on this and add to it.

The bottom line is that you need to learn about how your body is now working, how your muscles and bones work together, to identify these pressure sensations and find ways of using your body that lessen them.

My gut feeling, and it is only gut feeling, is that leaving the pessary in and trying some of the exercises gently, then taking the pessary out and doing the same, and comparing the two, will be the only way you will tell which is better. The vagina is an organ with a lot of sideways stretch, as long as it has not been surgically altered to make it smaller.

Louise

ps, as a woman who has had hysterectomy it would probably be more productive for you to post in the Hysterectomy Forum. This is not to keep you out of these other Forums. It is simply because your body is structurally different from a woman who still has her uterus, and some of the discussions may not be relevant to you in these other Forums. You might find them misleading.

I have stage to prolapse and urine leakage. Can anyone suggest what to do to avoid surgery?

You need to straighten yourself up and make the top of your head as tall as possible. Leave your belly relaxed and untuck your butt. This will tilt your pelvis forwards and your bladder and uterus will roll forwards off the top of your vagina and stop when they are resting against your lower abdominal wall. This will help to keep them out of the way of the intraabdominal forces that attempt to compress the bladder and squeeze out drops of urine when it is positioned further back, on top of the vagina, during a cough or sneeze or laugh.

Check out Christine Kent's Youtube channel, Wholewomaninc, where there are some video excerpts from the DVD, First Aid for Prolapse. Then buy the DVD and the book.

Also, trawl these Forums using the Search box, using relevant keywords.

Then come back and ask some more specific questions. I hope we will hear from you again soon.

Louise