Prolapse surgery

I am new to this forum and wanted to take a moment to add my comments. I, too, have had a prolapse for many years. My doctor offered me surgery but did not push for it. She evaluated my situation and decided that I would be an ideal candidate for pessary use as she felt I would be very responsible in the long term maintenance that goes along with it. Actually, I was just in for my yearly physical and after 5 years of constant use, one would never know that I currently wear one. I asked for a replacement today as I felt that it was breaking down but was showing no signs of wear affecting the ability to do what it is designed to do. Got that replacement. . . same style, same size so things have not progessed one bit! I know that somewhere in one of these threads someone asked if it would make the situation worse. My response. . . . the fact that my replacement is identical to the original, the situation has not gotten worse. I will say that my pessary is removed nightly, cleaned, dried and is ready for use again first thing in the morning. I have never had an issue with any irritations and there is absolutely no discomfort whatsoever. I don't give it a thought during the day and I am pretty much oblivious to its' presence. My feeling is that I do not want to go through any unnecessary surgeries so the pessary was the ideal for me. I do hope that anyone who is thinking about it, will at least give it a try. It might just be the ticket for you as well!

Hi Lucy

Thanks for this comment. We often receive posts from women wanting to hear about Members who are successfully using a pessary.

I am curious though, do you ever have a day when you don't wear your pessary? If so, how is it different?

Louise

Hi Trixybell

You wrote

"In my experience people are more open to new ideas when using an enquiry approach rather than when they are defending years of medical training which teaches surgical solutions to what is, in essence, an orthopaedic or postural problem."

I think you are absolutely right. How then, do you think we can lead doctors and other professionals into an 'enquiry' approach?

It sounds like your doctor responded very professionally to your rejecting his offer of surgical repairs. That would give him some credibility in my eyes, even if he waxed lyrical about Kegels. ;-)

I think they do become blinded by their own training. Unless a doctor is curious by nature s/he is not going to spend (valuable) time reading material that is clearly counter to her/his beliefs and training.

They really do have to see the connection between side effects, complications, repeated surgery and unhappy women, and the damage that is done by gold standard surgical repair procedures, before they can even be open to the possibility that there may be another way of helping these women.

Sending them away from their first consultation with a Web URL may be $litting their own throat$. However, there will always be women who want someone else to solve their problems, so I feel they will always have a market. Maybe there would simply be a 'market correction'?

Managing a medical condition yourself is not every woman's cup of tea. Let's face it, most of us would be over the moon if we could take a pill that would heal our fascia and reconnect damaged muscle.

Louise

Hey Louise. . . funny you ask that question. My doctor asked me the very same thing! Yes, the days that I am being lazy and stay in my jammies all day I don't give the pessary a thought. I don't notice a difference, which my doctor thought was interesting. Prior to using it I could barely stand it. Now, if I leave it out, it doesn't bother me at all. I think it has made the situation better over the long haul. I have never tried to go without wearing it over an extended period of time, but for a day or so it is fine. Hope this helps.

Lucy, when you were first fitted with the pessary(years ago?) what level of POP did you have or feel .eg I haven't been checked by my doc for years(our relationship is lost ) except I have the bulge peep, some days worse than others, but lost most of the pain most of the time since changeing my posture.Im still slack about the exercises :-( How long did it take to get use to it? I cannot possibly imagine inserting anything of that nature , with the level of my POP, but I am thinking...need more feedback and info when you have time, thanks muchly :-) ps do you think you would or have felt it when riding a pushbike or eg motorbike ? if you haven't tried either, could you go sit on someone's lol for me ......;-)

Hi kiwigirl - and lucy

i have just picked up your threads - and have associated questions.

I have grade 3 rectocele ie bulge protruding at times from vagina. Am waiting for a consultant's appointment, but could be waiting several more months (UK). I have the book and DVD, and am trying to keep in posture. This is pretty difficult as a teacher for two reasons: first is that one wholly concentrates on the lesson and on managing the class, second I come home tired, and end up crashing out on sofa with the wrong sort of food. Clearly I need to be more disciplined!! - hopefully a restful weekend will put me back on track.

Lately the POP has given me an achey pulling sensation, not quite pain but more than discomfort. Tiredness may be playing a part, but so is using the loo - because there is inevitably some pushing downwards (don't mean straining) and that pushes out the rectocele.

Do you notice the pessary when using the toilet for wee or bowel movements? How about intercourse (sorry to ask personal question) and finally I cycle loads too and am wondering if, should I be offered a pessary, if that will be fine too.

What is the shape/size of your pessary - do you know if it has a special name?

Thanks for your advice

Hi Marigold2, re; the pain and bulge...yes I do feel the bulge at times whilst on loo(even today lol). So then when I stand up, I lean forward ,knees bent chest out (belly between as Christine often says), and then I feel the bulge shoot back up into place. Hard for me to explain not being so good with the written word.Sometimes I have to really bend forward a lot ie exaggerated.Doesn't always stay back up for long .Some days worse than others eg I seem to be worse on Thursdays ...I have not figured out why yet! The posture is what I focus on the most. I have/had typical dancers turn out, bottom tucked in etc straight knees, it is still a work in process for me , but a great relief to lose the ache.I also make my own Bliss Balm and use that morning and night,it acts like an internal moisturiser.Im sure that helps a lot too, as it stops tissue dragging and pain and discomfort associated with that.
It's worth perservering- its made a huge difference to me!
I don't think men are as bothered as we are , if you can both work it out between you.Louise is better at explaining this side of things ;-).Hope this helps...

What do you do on Wednesdays, Kiwigirl?

Or what are you doing on Thursdays when you realise it is more symptomatic on that day? ie how do you use your body differently on these two days, during specific activities?

Are there emotionally threatening things happening on either of these days that make you curl up into a C shape?

Louise

I am not sure what the level was/is but I can tell you that I use a pretty basic pessary. . . a ring. I think they are used for mild to moderate prolapse. My doctor loving refers to removing my uterus as a one two snip, if that gives you any visuals! I know it is right there but since using the pessary it really doesn't bother me when it is out. As for getting used to it, it took absolutely no time at all. The doctor popped it in and I was good to go. If it is a good fit you won't even know it is there. I was lucky, got the right one and the right fit the first time out. Removing it, cleaning it and replacing it, takes no time at all and it is like second nature to me. . . . much like caring for my contacts! I can't imagine that riding a pushbike or motor bike would be a problem. I know that I have used an exercise bike and nothing. I think half the concern is getting to the point of wearing a pessary. Once you make the decision, and have a doctor who is supportive, you will have a life changing experience. Keep me updated.

Hi Lucy

Using a pessary is completely different from our core methods.

You may be able to keep using your pessary successfully for many years.
I prefer not to use a pessary because they do hold the sides of the vagina wider than they would be in the relaxed position and they do tend to cause irritation. With damaged fascia I would prefer not to risk further damage. I did have one for a while, but it caused me more discomfort and inconvenience than the one you are using. I stopped using it, then tried again about ten years later, but by then it was too small and would keep falling out. This is what started my search for alternatives. We frequently have Members who have my sort of experience with pessary rather than yours. You are lucky.

I would encourage you to practise WW posture, and do all the pay heed to a healthy diet, be careful how you use your body for tasks and activities, avoid clothing that restricts your lower belly, maintain your WW posture while you exercise, and choose new forms of exercise carefully.

If you do these things you are probably minimising further damage, as well as conserving your existing endopelvic fascia. You may find in time that you are able to discard the pessary, or if your body does change and plop the pessary out, you may find that it is unnecessary to replace it.

A bladder and uterus that are allowed to flop backwards over the vagina will always be at risk of flopping back (prolapsing) further and causing worse symptoms. The only way to stop this is to consciously keep them forwards, using your natural structure and posture, as your body was designed to do.

Sorry, but there is not a regular update of the site. It is your responsibility to check back in occasionally and see if there are new things. Hope to see you again.

Louise

Hi Louise, re: Wednesdays.....a friend suggested it was my Wed. evg dance class(with partner), which does involve some funny moves requiring faith in one's partner(to a female of my age lol). But on reflection I felt the same before I started this class in the months preceding.I feel more tired on a Thursday after this class and then have a linedance class that evg.It's a struggle.So thinking of what else I do as a regular thing I can only think that I use to do a weighty grocery shop on a Monday,and often sheets washing and vacuuming.Recently I started doing grocery shop Wednesday, so that can't be it. And Im nowhere leading as physically active live as I once did.Possibly I sit more at my laptop and curving for longer than I think :-(
My other thoughts are that I joined WW in the midst of a lot of emotional stuff in my life, one thing on top of another and lost heart to do much.I am coming out of that slump I feel now, with brighter things happening this year :-) Im a very indoors sort of person, who needs to be out more, and so the last 2 weeks have ventured into our garden wilderness and had my lunch outside when I can , as well. Im under chiro treatment at present and he is interested in seeing Christine's book.That got me back to reading the Firebreathing chapter and got DH to check my posture for that this morning.Taking chiro the book tomorrow, fingers crossed. He is interested as some facial pain Ive had is related to lower back, L4 & 5 ,I think he said.And I showed him the posture, so he checked to see if that was giving me lower weakness, but not so, to his surprise!
Lucy...thanks that sounds a very positive process for you.Meanwhile I'll do some more research and think about it, and Im a believer that the right opportunity pops up when one is ready for it. ie possibly the right doctor.

Hi Kiwigirl

I sounds to me like you had or have a pretty physical start to the week, then sit a lot more later in the week. Sometimes I find that I need to ease up and not do heavy exertion two days running. If you could spread it out a bit more it might give your body more time to adjust again. Maybe spread the vacuuming out, a little every day if you have to, so you are not using one set of muscles for a long period of time, particularly as it is a one-sided task.

What style of machine do you have? Just manipulating a hose and head may be easier than the type that requires you to push the whole machine back and forth. On the other hand if its wheels move smoothly it might be better. I have one with a hose, and I like to use it with two hands a la broom, with my butt sticking out and a very straight back. It is more like shovelling really!!! Beats doing crunches!

Do you hang your sheets out on a washing line? How do you get them out there and up onto the line? How do you bring them in?

I have washing lines on pulleys on my verandah, just outside the laundry door. First, I spin them well to reduce the weight. I push the trolley with basket up to the front of the machine and kind or roll the sheets out of the front loader into the trolley, then out the door, directly under where I will hang one end of the first sheet. I let the line down to shoulder height and peg the first two corners. Then I peg the second pair of corners about one metre along. Then I pick up the middle bits, match up the two layers and peg them halfway. Then if I want to spread it out a bit more I do it peg by peg. I then pick up the folded bottom and fold it loosely over pegged bit and move along to the next sheet. Hitching them up stops the bottom of the first from dragging on the ground while I peg the second. I can wash two of my heavy, cotton kingsize sheets in one load. When they are hung, I hitch the line up high again, using my own body weight so we can walk under it where the door is, and unhitch the bottoms of the sheets. A good trick is to do it at a slow and deliberate pace. Another trick I do is to open the flyscreen door with my toes. It is another excuse to do front leg raises. Washing is such fun. :-(

I often bring sheets in by just stretching up to grab the pegs with alternate hands, rather than undoing the pulleys, and chuck them over my shoulder. This gives my body a good stretch both sides.

This may seem like teaching your grandmother to suck eggs, but I thought I would write detailed descriptions as an example for others of some of the ways I have figured out how we can all think our way around heavy tasks using mechanical advantage, which enables me to do quite heavy tasks without busting my foo-foo valve.

Please don't think that I think you are a helpless cripple, Kiwigirl! ;-)

Louise

Louise-Ive just read your post to me ,Ive been logged in for ages reading heaps of posts.Im sure you don't think me a cripple lol. Thank you so much for your detailed chore moves.So- to how I do my housework...ok sheets are 2 sets of heavy cotton king and queen sizes, sometimes I take off at the same time , sometimes I stagger them.Take from machine when washed , put in basket on floor , carry to line which is reasonably high, as in my elbows are just a little bent to peg them.Hubby has hung a bar from the lounge ceiling(which can be dismantled for guests coming)for hanging washing on wet days , and where I air clothes from the line.,I do use the dryer a lot if the weather is bad, for towels, flannels, hankies. But items of clothing I hang wet onto that bar/rail.And smalls on a round thing with hanging pegs in the laundry room.I have been able to put the washing basket on the outdoor wooden table, making it easier to pick up the washing from.Don;t see too much trouble with what I do, do you?
Now the vacuuming is another story, since we got new carpet 7 months ago.I dread it.And vacuuming is hard work so I avoid it heaps! Now and then I will do from top to bottom but I don't think the vacuum likes that any more than I do,it gets v. hot! Quite a big house here with top level having 4 bedrooms and bathroom, stairs down to lounge, living, dining, kitchen,
bathroom, large games area and laundry down more stairs to foyer.I try to break it up into sections- so do the living floor level a clean twice a week, and leave the rest until its desperate.For most of my life I have been on my feet a lot (like my mother was) running around at a hectic pace with family, cleaning , baking, exercising, and home decorating.And really from age 9 I was on the go with ballet and chores at home and travelling to and from school. I had to slow down eventually and life's events and my body told me so.(ps nearly your age).So now I feel really slack with what little I do, but I tell myself its time to smell the roses and get some balance :-).As mentioned in one of my posts its been a very up and down past 18months, Ive spent more time on the pc and then on my laptop... am picking up the threads again and aiming to buy a new vacuum cleaner and will be more careful with that purchase. I was reminded last week to start paying more attention to how I hold my back. I do feel worse after vacuuming. Lol and that takes me back to when I was young teen and had to vacuum the house every Saturday, even though I was full of hayfever.,I dreaded it even then.Also my grocery bags are heavy and I do try and carry as much up with each load as I can...norti me!
So Il try and think more carefully this week and pace myself better.Last week I mowed the lawns with a handmower (dont ususally do them) and then sort of squatted to trim the edges,and did heaps of weeding.Not a big garden by any means but very overgrown as hubby hurt his back and working 6 day weeks.So now Ive found the handmower I quite enjoy that and it will get me outside more in the fresh air.Good for the soul too. I saw a Tui in our tree on Saturday arvo :-) you can hear its wings flap flapping thats the first alert.We love them here .Best I go bed now!

Louise- I did the grocery shop on Monday, and the sheets on friday.Just a quick vacuum in between, all done with more slowness and care.Thanks again for your timely reminder.Now to the subject title.....I did the worse thing mid las tweek, by blowing up some balloons,(a special big birthday).Well did I pay for it! Next day by lunchtime I was really unwell, felt freezing and dull ache lower abdominal area,tender abdomen to touch and felt bloated and terrible. Had a therapeutic bath(epsom salts and rosemary oil,ginger and lavender) and went to bed for most of that day and into next.Felt heaps better overall next day , still rested and following day went with hubby on 2 day bike trip(felt worn out but thought Id be okay, knowing he wanted me to go too).What a miserable 750kms that has been :-( although the stops on the first day and the evening were pleasant.Not much of today was.So what did I learn from this, dont blow up balloons!(I already knew that).Be more assertive in stating my needs with hubby.Two suprising 'notes to self'- that meditating (eyes closed on bike) got me through yesterday amazingly, and that when the last leg of our journey home today became almost unbearable(tears then) that by clenching my abdominals in and doing a sort of kegel squeeze at the same time and holding -got me home!Weird to say but I had to try lots of things over 2 days to get me through.Very releived to be home! Said to hubby I don't know how I got through this weekend! and he agreed he didn't know either :-( PS we were with a group of riders.

I would never have thought that blowing up balloons could be so devastating on POP! So it was quite a few balloons then. Hmmm. You didn't do something silly at the party as well, did you? I wonder what the physical effects were, as in why were you so bloated, and why the feeling of unwellness, and the pain? I really wonder if there was something else happening as well? A virus maybe? so sorry that you suffered as a result of doing the generous act.

And the bike ride! Doing things in a group can have hidden disadvantages, like not being able to pull out. 750km is some bike ride! Oh well, as you say, notes to self. We live and learn.

Take care.

Louise

Yes I was surprised too Louise , although you may be right, something else may be happening.I have been thick around the middle for a few months now, but not sore and uncomfortable.I've had a thought that it might be IBS type of thing happening, as I know there are sensitivities in my family with foods.I saw that in my dad.I seem to eat plainer food these days than the rest of my family.It sits better with me.Very little alcohol.Wine has always been a problem ie upsets my system.Hey , it was only 6 balloons!Even if doing that wasn't the major cause, how did I feel so bruised inside everytime our bike hit a bump in the road? eg when I got home last night , once off the bike, I just felt weary but not sore.Not tender to outside touch, but im sure If I hopped back on the bike Id feel the same tenderness.
I am in several situations a year where balloon blowing up is needed, and somehow I knew not to do this the last couple of years,but luckily others did that and I could help in other ways.Lol Louise it was not a kick your heels up party, just a family dinner(for 7), and I just cooked everything.DH thought the cream at dessert may have upset me, and yes that could have added to the mix.Hence I was a lot more careful what I ate, while away.Opting for a fresh salad when others had burgers and chips or similar.As I said to DH, I appreciate the learning curve,I need reminders until I listen well! Looking at some family history.... Ive known for awhile the play between stress buildup and effects on digestion and health in each individual and certainly have seen it in myself.