Red Clover

Hi Fifi

I think you will find the reason you did not receive a reply is that there are not a lot of successful, or should I say persistent, pessary users in this community. I have used a pessary but found it more trouble than it was worth, so I thought there was little point in my replying. Maybe mine was never fitted properly in the first place. I find that I can get OK comfort just using WW posture 24/7.

You did ask for successful users, and thankfully Lucy has now replied. I have been checking your topic since it was posted, to see if anyone had replied. You were not being ignored. We are all busy women who voluntarily monitor the Forums. Sometimes it is necessary to wait for the right person to reply.

Yes, red clover is an anti-inflammatory herb. You can read all about how its antiinflammatoriy properties work in Christine Kent's article, A Natural Remedy for Lichen Sclerosus, which you can find in the Library under Articles by Christine Kent.

I drink red clover tea on a daily basis. It keeps my vulva feeling comfortable and seems to keep my post-menopause vagina moister, so the surfaces can slide over each other easily, which seems to help when repositioning my pelvic organs. It also keeps my skin moist and supple.

Hope to hear from you again soon.

Louise

Hi Fifi, I too find it uncomfortable to sit crosslegged, although 5 years ago I could!So I struggle with that part of the exercises.Im waiting for the new yoga video from Christine.I haven't done enough yoga in the past to figure out whats good and whats not, apart from the odd move I know is not good.Im going to try the red clover tea, daily.I also make my own bliss balm. Have also been following the pessary discussions. keeping an open mind to see what works for me, and that's what we women here are doing anyway...:-)
Also been absent from here for awhile, Im still a newbie , as in joined mid last year....I think..unless dementia has set in already!

Louise. . . I am glad to help. I agree, having the correct fit from the get go was very helpful in my success, as was my doctors support. I would say there is no harm in trying. If it isn't working, then it isn't working and you can move on to other avenues. I am glad that I did go the pessary route as it seems to be the answer for me. Thanks a bunch!

Christine's discoveries about red clover came after the book was published, which is why you cannot find anything about it in the book.

I buy my red clover tea from an online supplier in Australia where I live. However i have also found it in health food stores. Hilde Hemmes is one brand. Health food suppliers often don't have it obviously displayed, or promote it, as red clover is used in alternative cancer treatments and this is frowned upon by mainstream medicos. You might have to ask for it from under the counter, even though you are using it for very different purposes.

Christine's book is available for purchase from the Wholewoman Store, wherever you live in the world. The articles in the library can be accessed free of all charges.

Louise

I bought Red Clover at health food store today (Celebration is brand)
Was wondering- could it not be made from the field of red clover next to my home?? Drying the blossoms in season and storing? 24 tea bags were 5.75

I love the online retailer Mountain Rose Herbs, and get all of my prenatal tea herbs from them. They are lovely and organic. Located in the US, but they do ship internationally. There is an international shipping info tab on the far right side of their homepage, right under "shopping basket." I've not looked at the rates, but the bulk herb prices are very reasonable. Red clover blossom is $35 for one pound, and red clover herb (leaves -- these have the stronger phytoestrogens, if I recall correctly) is $9 for one pound. One pound makes a lot of tea!!! Hope that helps!

Hi Fifi

My local ( independent ) health food shop in Northern England sells red clover tea I notice. I haven't bought it because I don't think it's appropriate for me at the moment so I can't remember the name, but it might be that yours would order it for you, or you could look online.

I found the book so... helpful, but if cost is an issue there's lots of information here if you wander around the whole woman village.

All the best, and keep asking questions if you need to. Quite a lot of the moderators are busy with major events in their lives at the moment, but the rest of us will always try to reply where we think we might have something useful to offer.

Wishing you well.

Doubtful

Fifi, it is ridiculous that you should have to pay freight from Australia. I am sure you will be able to buy it from a UK supplier, unless there is some strange law against selling it.

Are there any UK 'red clover junkies' in the UK who can tell Fifi where she can buy it online?

Louise

The answer for some of you who are looking for red clover may be to find a seed source. Red clover is very easy to grow, too easy in my part of the world which is the upper south in the middle of the USA. It grows up to about waist high and it would only take a few plants, about 6 or so, to supply you with enough red clover to last a year. I use to think that only the blossoms were used but have found out that the leaves and stems are very important too. If you can grow flowers, then you should be able to grow red clover. You might even consider growing it in part of your flower bed. It will need water from time to time if it is dry in your area. Farm supply stores sell the seed in my area but you won't need a 25 lb. or 50 lb. bag. There is no doubt a place on the Internet where you can buy a small amount of seed. At least that way you will know what is being put on it.
Little Bit

Hi Fifi

Sorry my local shop won't be much help to you - it's a one man show and I'm a good three hours north of Lincoln. I'll get the brand name for you next time I manage to get to town, but my guess is it's not cheap - nothing in there is.

Meanwhile, if it's any help, I've found these UK suppliers on the net. SOme of them do free postage. It certainly seems to be more expensice than buying the stuff in bulk as some of our overseas sisters seem to manage- between three to four pounds for a little 50 gramme bag or twenty teabags, but I suppose that's not much more than we pay for ordinary tea in the UK. Does it even grow in the UK? If it's imported, that could explain a lot.

Anyway, if it's any help, try googling

Indigo Herbs of Glastonbury
Immergruen.co.uk
Organicnutrition.co.uk

There seemed to be lots of similar suppliers. Might be worth ringing round to see if anyone would give you a bulk discount - but maybe start with just a small pack.

All the best and let us know how you get on with it.

Doubtful

Red Clover Herbal Tea (bulk blossom tea) is available from Celebration Herbals

http://www.celebrationherbals.com/FAQ.html#Purchase

Hi Little Bit:
Haveu used fresh red clover? Have y dried it? I would think drying it would be similar to say drying parsley for a years use.. what ratio of stems to flower to leaf might be better? It is plentiful in my area in the late summer.

Hi Sammy,
I have used the red clover blossoms fresh in salads but I have always dried most of them to use in tea. I usually mix the dried blossoms with my raspberry leaf tea. This will be the first year that I will be including the leaves and stems because I just found out a few months ago that the leaves and stems have value as well as the blossoms. I will be doing a little more research on it myself. The clover isn't blooming here yet but probably will be in a couple of weeks or so. I use a dehydrator to dry mine but it should air dry fine too. I will probably use mostly leaves with as many blossoms as I can gather and a few stems in the mixture. I am sure I will make up at least one batch of just blossoms since that is how I've always done it in the past. Since the mixture will be a first for me this year, I'll make some tea from my first batch and decide then if I will dry more of the mixture or stick with the blossoms.
Little Bit

I have done a lot of research into red clover because there is a sheep disease called Clover Disease, rare now, which causes infertility in ewes that graze it, and other high oestrogen legume pastures, such as old lucernes and some of the old subterranean clover varieties exclusively or in combination. It also causes genital malformation in female lambs from these ewes if they graze high oestrogen pastures during pregnancy. The world's knowledge of Clover Disease is based on research that was done here in Western Australia back in the 1960's.

It is the leaf and stems that has the oestrogen. The flowers look pretty, but by the time flowering is well-established in a stand of red clover the oestrogen level in leaves and stems is going down. Drying does not reduce the oestrogen levels, but if you allow the plants to hay off into dry standing pasture the resulting oestrogen content of the dry pasture is very, very low.

If a farmer is growing red clover for harvest of red clover tea it must be done before flowering is established for maximum oestrogen content. The plants will develop maximum dry matter when flowering is in full bloom, so the temptation would be to let the crop grow for as long as possible for maximum yield. It is a balancing act. That is why the best red clover tea will have a little flower, or just buds, because it indicates that it has been harvested at the correct stage. Too much flower will mean lower oestrogen levels.

Choice of variety is also important as some varieties have higher oestrogen than others, but the really high oestrogen clover varieties from Spain and the Middle East are no longer available as seed. I have looked for them in vain via seed suppliers. Eventually they may emerge from some obscure seed bank or archive established long ago, or from an archaeological dig, and become available again for commercial clover tea production for human consumption as a medicinal food. The currently available varieties are all now much lower in oestrogen for obvious reasons. Pasture legumes are unfortunately only grown for animal fodder, and tea growers can now only get the more modern varieties.

I am jealous of those of you who live in a climate where this clover will grow waist high. It does require summer moisture (which we don't have) because it flowers in its second year.

That's the good oil.

Louise

Thanks for the info on Red clover. It is part of a hay blend in the farm field next to our home(my brothers) The Red clover tea that I bought shows a nice uniform mixture that is a bright irish green. Not the winter type green of dried hay..

Is it the oestrogen content we look for but in a hot beverage form?
The yam is one I try to get weekly
We have so much food to tempt us. The discipline is a challenge.

Yes Sammy, hot beverage, or cold if you are into it. That way you get the oestrogen without needing to develop a rumen to pre-digest all the plant material. Our digestive system is not really designed to eat clover! Making an infusion gets around having to eat it.

It is not unpleasant. Occasionally I will add a tiny bit of honey, but normally not.

It makes my urine pale green. ;-)

Louise

Louise,
Thank you for all the information on red clover. I trust your knowledge. I had intended to wait until the clover was completely in bloom but now I will be harvesting it earlier.
Little Bit

Louise,
Have you done any research on Crimson Clover (Trifolium incarnatum) that is an annual originally from Italy? That is not the type that is grown in my area. The type grown in my area is the perennial Red Clover (Trifolium pratense) which seems to be the most common used for tea. I did find a place, Horizon Herbs, that sells the Crimson Clover seed and says that it can also be used for tea. There seems to be very little information on the Internet about the medicinal uses of the Crimson Clover and I am wondering if you know which clover is the most beneficial.
Thank you,
Little Bit

Hi Little Bit

I cannot recall Crimson Clover being mentioned in the high oestrogen clovers, and a quick google supports that, but I don't know how high the oestrogen levels are in modern varieties of red clover anyway, so it is a bit of a mystery. I did find one study from 2008 comparing the isoflavone levels of differnent types of clover, and red clover still came out way above the others at 1%-2.5%, if I remember correctly.

I am not an authority on this. I just studied it in passing while I was at Uni many years ago, and have revisited the research since finding out about its almost magical qualities for women's health. I would stick to red clover if I could get it.

Louise

Louise,
Thank you, I will be staying with red clover too. I have never seen the Crimson Clover in person and thought it just might be one that was even higher in the oestrogen. I'll be doing more research on it.
Little Bit