Osada Procedure

Hi Sue,

Well, it looks pretty ghastly if you ask me (and "very challenging", according to the authors), but is it curative? The conclusion seems to be that adenomyosis is a “progressive disorder” that the procedure does not always relieve for the long term.

How old are you, Sue? You must be familiar with the underlying cause - that cells from the endometrium get "mixed up" with cells from the deeper myometrium. D&C is one of the biggest causes of this disorder. Can you pinpoint any particular uterine trauma that may have led to the development of your condition?

The article mentioned that the study excluded women who had less than three days of incapacitating pain (bed rest and analgesics) per month. How do your symptoms compare with this? Why/how are you being “forced” to take action?

Have you tried alternative therapies? This is an area of great frustration for me because our pharmacological system has let us down completely in the treatment of this and many other common disorders of the uterus. Herbalists of old knew of substances that helped shed the lining of the uterus, but that knowledge was neither retained or replaced with newer drugs. I actually caused a cervical polyp to fall off using common herbal remedies (you can search my original post “My polyp fell off!” or something like that - lol.) I also experienced a tremendous uterine purge unlike anything, except birth, when I was about 48 - my uterus never regained its prior size and weight, which made me suspicious that I probably had what is now labeled "adenomyosis"

I would love to hear more about how you have come to this point.

Christine

Hi s1u2e3

Yes, I remember your unusual username.

I immediately went to Dr Christiane Northrup's book, Women's Bodies Women's Wisdom. On pp145-147 of the 1998 edition Dr Northrup talks about heavy bleeding in general, then the specifics of adenomyosis, in the chapter on The Menstrual Cycle. There are some other suggestions that she makes as well as those you describe. She also talks about heavy bleeding being about chronic stress and blockage of the second chakra, specifically about creativity, relationships, money and control of others. She quotes some of her patients who have recovered from heavy bleeding, but not specifically from adenomyosis, without surgery. The whole chapter makes very interesting reading. Dr Northrup has also written The Wisdom of Menopause, which you might find more useful. You might be able to browse both books on Amazon. They may also be availabale through your public library system, or a women's health resource centre.

It will eventually lessen and stop as your menstrual cycle goes through its last hiaitus, and quietens slowly before menses ceases completely, but of course you don't know how long this process could take. What age did your mother cease menstruation? I believe this is very heritable. My Mum and I ceased menses within 12 months of each other.

It can be very scarey and frustrating in these days when we have control over so much of our lives, to not know how long it will be until menopause, and what the next day of bleeding will bring.

I can aalso understand your worry about being on these drugs for the long term. I hope you find some other paths you could follow up, in these two books.

Louise

I feel for you and your condition. I do not know what it is, though. Can you explain?

Hi Sue,

I've been noodling all weekend (while climbing through Indian ruins with my little granddaughter :) on how to respond to you. I do hear your pain.

I also hear that you may be exacerbating (even causing?) your own symptoms. Consider this:

When you swallow a Ponstan (every six hours for 2-3 days!) it not only inhibits the enzyme responsible for one arm of the inflammatory cascade (COX2), but also inhibits the enzyme responsible for many “housekeeping” functions in the body, including prostaglandins that are trying to normalize your endometrium (COX1).

You bleed like crazy, then take tranexamic acid, which inhibits the natural breakdown of "fibrin" within your endometrium (and the rest of your body). Talk about uterine trauma! You are right to be concerned about this “heavy medication”. Non-selective COX2 inhibitors should be taken off the market, but are completely accepted by a public that has no idea they are not the whole story behind inflammation (it is the LOX enzyme that plays the major role) and can have serious, far-reaching side effects. Tranexamic acid should be reserved for the battlefield, not taken by women on a monthly basis, given its potential to cause blood clots.

The IUD sounds horrible. Progestins are notorious for causing debilitating side effects - bloating, headache, nausea. Beyond that, I cannot see how interfering with the menstrual cycle at this level is going to help your condition.

None of these conventional treatments add up. Particularly trying to treat uterine trauma with a catastrophic surgery!

The huge problem modern (Newtonian) medicine has with natural medicine is that healing is non-linear, cannot be measured, and cannot always be reproduced from person to person. Healing is extremely personal, intuitive, and often contains an element of the “spiritual”. It is earthy, maybe even messy, and cannot be neatly calculated or perhaps even logically understood.

Women, the ultimate intuitives, are adrift in the world of modern medicine! They often have significant psychological problems (mind and body are connected - when one is poisoned, the other is too), are quick to blame (self-responsibility cannot be prescribed), and have a learned sense of helplessness and dependency that is perfectly fulfilled by the doctor, pharmacist, and drug store.

Healing is the utter opposite! It is cautionary, wakeful, kind, gentle and trusting of the natural order of things.

What herbs have you tried - in what form and for how long? Do you realize the pre-menopausal uterus is the largest cleansing organ in the body? Everything you ingest is cycling through your entire uterus every few minutes. Do you understand that if your mother had stuffed her vagina with barley grass pulp grown in rich, organic soil to control intense pain and bleeding, instead of opting for hysterectomy, your attitude and insight might be different? (I’m not suggesting you do this - I’m the only one I know crazy enough to try something like this). And that by believing you “won’t be able to make it to menopause” you are drawing that reality ever closer?

The most marvelous remedy for cramps I ever experienced was with one of my last periods - and I actually grieved that I couldn’t have more of the same because it was so amazing. I was in excruciating pain and waited in the car while my husband grabbed a few things at the grocery store. One of them was organic oranges and I ate 2 on the way home. Then settled into bed and sipped a glass of red wine. Moment by moment my symptoms drifted away like magic. Since then my recipe to others for menstrual cramps is 2 organic oranges followed 15 minutes later by a glass of good red wine. There is some real biochemistry there - flavonoids being a major player, no doubt.

I can’t help you, Sue. But I have no doubt you can help yourself! You must go deep and question every assumption. Trust your own ability to connect with the power of your self-healing body.

Please let us hear from you - we are always interested in women’s healing stories.

Christine

Dear Christine,

I have been browsing the website for days now. This is truly a Godsend. Your work and all of the thoughtful replies and questions from members are so helpful and inspirational. Your information about the misconception of the female pelvis is dazzling and eye-opening. Even visualizing my pelvis in the way you describe seems to make a difference. There cannot be enough of us questioning the wisdom of mainstream medicine. I am 49, and I am at a crossroads in my life, in my body, in my spirit. Any and all advice would be so much appreciated.

A couple of months back I visited my doctor because of rectal pain and pressure, which I have had for about 10 years. At times it is virtually non-existent and at others, it is excruciating and interferes with exercise, my major way to relieve stress. When I have a bowel movement, especially during my period or the week before, I feel as thought I cannot completely evacuate and have to use my fingers inside my vagina to assist. I often feel a bulge inside my vagina when I have to go. I have also been bleeding (again for about 10 years) to the point of anemia when I get my period (not every month) but often enough so that I have become afraid of my period. My gynecologist recommended a hysterectomy (no way!), and I have had MRIs and ultrasounds and CAT scans showing adenomyosis and fibroids. I do not want a hysterectomy so I visited a Dr. Toaff in Pennsylvania who treats adenomyosis by reconstructing the uterus, removing fibroids and adenomyosis, and putting the uterus back! Scary, but he says he has performed hundreds of these surgeries with good results. I don't want surgery at all. He says the adenomyosis is severe and causing all of the trouble. My gynecologist says the only alternative is to put me on a drug that induces menopause. Yikes!

I am going to order Christine's videos and begin her program.

I have been struggling so much with this. Have any of you ever heard of clogged toilet syndrome? Came across this "syndrome" in my research. What are effective treatments for adenomyosis and is it connected to the rectal pain? I am happy to be a part of this forum and looking forward to your thoughts and advice.

Sincerely,
LisaH

Welcome, Lisa,

Thank you - it’s lovely to hear your supportive and encouraging voice. Gosh, I was experiencing so much pain, bleeding and discomfort at your age. One time I bled continuously for a month - a wonderful acupuncturist actually told my uterus to stop bleeding...and it did! I have described another dramatic experience, my “bleed out”, (often called menstrual flooding) several times over the years and in the first edition of STWW.

I don’t think there are any effective conventional treatments for adenomyosis. How can a treatment be considered effective if the cure is worse than the disorder? Perhaps this new surgery would be an improvement over what you have now, but you simply cannot exclude risks such as adhesions, nerve damage and loss of uterine, bladder or urethral support. As I cite in my book, invalid studies and inflated successes quoted by surgeons are common problems within the profession. Unfortunately, there is no way to validate his assertions.

Lupron is the drug that induces menopause, which it does by stopping the flow of hormones at the hypothalamic level. The “side” effects are profound and well documented. Many a woman has said she was never the same after treatment.

It sounds like you have “garden variety” rectocele. It is difficult to say which prolapsed symptom is worse than the others. Some women feel cystocele is more difficult to manage, while others say rectocele. You may know by now after reading the forums that we are pushing/pulling the pelvic organs forward with this work. The key concept is that the organs have not fallen down, they have fallen back. Within that framework, it would seem logical that cystocele is more easily drawn forward because it is almost there already - only a few centimeters up and over the pubic bones and it is in its normal position (were it that simple for the woman with fourth degree cystocele!)

Rectocele, on the other hand, would seem more difficult because the exaggerated anterior curve in the rectum causing all the problems of trapping stool, pain and pressure, must be straightened out in the midst of filling and emptying stool each and every day. Lo and behold, women are indeed able to improve these symptoms! I believe the WW postural work pulls the sigmoid colon forward, which in turn straightens the rectum (“rectum” means straight, btw). There are many ways to “baby” a rectocele - most importantly never straining against the toilet seat again (rock forward onto your feet and lift your bottom slightly off the seat).

I don’t know what else to say about the adenomyosis. I think it’s one of those common diseases that gynecology treats very poorly. I got through a terribly difficult end to my cycling years with herbal tinctures, acupuncture, belly dancing, and yes, I did stuff my vagina with wheat grass pulp (I would use barley grass today - lol) on many occasions. Yet, I am not an herbalist or a naturopath - just a desperate woman who has experienced a variety of uterine/cervical/vulvar maladies and learned a few things in the process - many of which have improved other areas my health (skin, bowels, joints, memory, teeth). It is astonishing how all of these symptoms subside on the other side of menopause. As Louise says - it all becomes so quiet.

You are So right that just visualizing the pelvis in its actual orientation is a remarkable paradigm shift. It is also true that simple reframing of what women have been told by their doctors makes all the difference in their ability to stay with the work. I talked with a delightful 73 year old today who was told she had “total vault collapse” and was ready to sign up for surgery. I cannot describe how delighted she was when she understood that there is no “vault” in a wombed woman, but only her muscular uterus trying to pull the entire vagina forward with each and every breath. Please let us know how you do.

Wishing you well,

Christine

Hi LisaH

We're similar ages and I too have been at a crossroads over the last year - and not just in terms of health. I've found these forums a huge help, and have made some improvements to my general health as well as my prolapse. The expertise of Christine and some of the long established members is astonishing.

You ask about Clogged Toilet Syndrome ( delightful name) . This seems to come from Elizabeth Smith MD who seems to me to be heavily promoting 'natural progesterone' creams - her thinking on phytoestrogens seems to to contradict the thinking of Chrsitianne Northrop - in particular, she seems to be very anti -red clover tea - and turmeric - some of the staples of the whole woman approach to an anti-inflammatory diet. Christine, what's your take on Dr Smith and her whole 'natural progesterone cream for any mid life hormonal thing' approach?

Doubtful

I think this woman (1) has a very simplistic view of the universe and (2) is ignoring basic research in gynecology and the biological sciences.

Blaming adenomyosis on xenoestrogens is far-fetched. It has long been understood to be a condition of multiparas - suggesting even pregnancy and childbirth disorganize layers of endometrium and myometrium. Furthermore, adenomyosis is not always symptomatic. A study of almost 2,000 uterine specimens found that adenomyosis occurs as often in the asymptomatic uterus removed for prolapse as that removed for bleeding or pain. (TeLinde’s Operative Gynecology). Progesterone supplementation was tried decades ago and proven to be of little use because so few progesterone receptors exist in adenomyotic tissue. (TeLinde’s again)

Dr. Smith declares that phytoestrogens add to the total estrogen load of the body, when in fact they are known to be anti-estrogenic. As for clover disease in sheep, here is a description of why sheep and humans respond differently to phytoestrogen:

“Phytoestrogens compete with endogenous steroids, so that the balance between estrogenic and anti-estrogenic activity is determined by the ratio of phytoestrogen to estrogen. This may explain why estrogenic effects predominate in the sheep, but anti-estrogenic effects are mainly reported in humans, in which circulating concentrations of steroidal estrogen are relatively high.” Adams N. Detection of the effects of phytoestrogens on sheep and cattle. Journal of Animal Science 73: 1509-1515 1995.

I would not use bioidentical progesterone primarily because it accumulates in fat cells as a potential store of raw material for the steroidogenesis pathway. All steroids, including cortisol, estrogen and testosterone can be made from progesterone. No scientist on earth can predict what will happen when any synthetic hormone - bioidentical or not - enters the body.

Plant progestogens have been used medicinally by human beings for eons.

Dear Christine, Thank you so much for your warm welcome and the thoughtfulness and thoroughness of your response. I'm looking forward to receiving the DVDs and getting started on the WW way of living. I visited my doctor for what I'm sure now, thanks to you, is a rectocele, and have spent the past few months trying not to have a hysterectomy! It seems silly to be so conflicted about our medical system; why not just walk away? I went through a similar conflict when I had my third child. After two nightmarish experiences in the hospital, with the gynecologist making one drastic decision after another, I opted for a home birth with a midwife. Thanks for helping me get back in touch with that wisdom. I'm definitely NOT going with the Lupron, but I do have to deal with the anemia...suggestions? found an iron supplement that is not constipating... this is such a wonderful site...so glad I found it.

Lisa H

Great to get your response, Doubtful. Tried the phytoestrogen, xenoestrogen elimination, plus progesterone. It made my breasts so painful, and the protocol required Iodine supplementation, which scared me...anyway I heard about clogged toilet syndrome from those folks. There was an emotional aspect to it as well, which I'm not dismissing. Anti-inflammatory diets work well for me, too..and I'm working my way back. I feel so unprepared for the second half of life, my life. Looking forward to getting to know the members here.

Lisa

With so much discussion about severe, pre-menopausal uterine bleeding I don’t want to leave out the hard fact that uterine cancer does occur in this age group. It is quite rare, but happens nonetheless. When you think of all the garbage the very vascular uterus continuously cycles in the modern woman - yes, Dr. Smith, xenoestrogens too - it’s not hard to imagine endometrial cells mutating and proliferating on a regular basis. The immune system is repairing the damage almost as fast as it happens - what a perfect body we have inherited! However, sometimes it is not enough.

We can take the prevention and natural medicine response only so far. Perfectly healthy women do develop cancer. Although not nearly as often as women who pay little attention to prevention. My argument is that we have evolved with nature for millions of years and our plant medicines fit our genetics as perfectly as anything science has been able to understand. Pharmaceutical science is going crazy at the moment trying to replicate the actions of the most powerful plant medicines on the planet, and thus far has not been successful. The pharmaceutical industry was born entirely from understanding how the natural world operates.

Is it a risk to avoid the medical system completely or is it a risk to place all trust in surgery, drugs, and radiation? Such decisions are highly personal and the argument always comes down to spiritual views about life and death.

The severe and persistent uterine bleeding so common to peri-menopause requires a response! What that response is will be unique to each woman and probably similar to all of the moment-by-moment decisions she has made throughout her life, which have brought her to this point.

Christine

Thanks Christine,

Lots of helpful food for thought here. When even many conventional alzheimers, allergy and arthritis specialists are advising phytoestrogens in the diet now as being protective against inflammatory conditions, I don't find her arguments convincing either.

Doubtful.

I don’t have any suggestions about the iron supplement - hopefully others will have some input. Metals in the body are pretty tightly regulated. Excess iron affects magnesium (and zinc) levels and excess copper affects zinc. Zinc is very important in estrogen and progesterone metabolism and, because copper levels are higher in the modern diet/environment, zinc is lower.

Just like with prolapse, there is so much good science contradicting the conventional treatment of adenomyosis. Someone just needs to sit down and compile all the data.

Vegetarians are at greatest risk of not getting enough zinc. Later tonight I’ll post my recipe for “zinc roast” - one of my favorite meals.

Christine

The question you pose captures my dilemma perfectly...is it a risk to avoid the medical system completely or a risk to place all trust in what they have to offer? Ultimately, less invasive has always worked better for me, but I do have to address all this bleeding! It's come down to not impulsively deciding but utilizing the best each approach has to offer. So far, I feel somewhat secure in what the medical system can offer in terms of diagnostics and emergency medicine, after that I don't have much faith. My response after much thought...is to learn something new to help the prolapse (WW approach)...intuitively and scientifically it makes sense. I came upon the work of Dr. Lee (bio-identical progesterone), and tested it out without success, so now I will "start from scratch" with herbal remedies, diet, exercise, care for myself, and acupuncture. I feel less panicked. Even though I know the decision is highly personal and in the end my own, seeking out the other women here, their stories, wisdom and expertise is so helpful.

Love to hear that one...your responsiveness is so kind and generous. Maybe we can get an adenomyosis research team going on compiling and analyzing! My first basic question is, and you may have answered this one already, is this process "fueled" by estrogen so that at menopause it will end? I know it's an injury to the inner wall but as you said you can have adenomyosis with no symptoms so what is the trigger, why now?

Lisa H

Gosh, I don’t know. The condition does end at menopause, that's pretty clearly stated in the literature. Why it happens peri-menopausally is a lot less clear. The uterus isn’t the only organ with endocrine layers that become disorganized. The adrenals do too, so that cortisol and androgen production become seriously compromised. This happens in the absence of “trauma”, but is often associated with stress (adrenal exhaustion).

I think it’s important to remember that when agricultural researchers study plant and animal diseases, they are almost always looking for a deficiency somewhere. Our doctors are focused downstream - on the hormones, tissues, etc. Rarely is it suggested that the problem might originate in the substrate - the soil - the blood itself.

This is from memory, so I hope Ive got the details right but you get the gist of it- I read Brandon Bay's book..The Journey . She was a very healthy spiritual lady working in that field who found herself with a larger stomach than usual and bleeding and finally went to her doc to be told she had a Uterine growth,(size of a basketball I think) .They wanted to take her to hospital immediately but she begged for time (to think, as she was sort of stunned this happened to her in her field of work).But the lady medic said she had to have the bleeding stopped ASP.So they finally made an agreement that if the bleeding stopped within 3 days, she could wait for 6 weeks but no longer.Now Im pretty sure she found a homeopath who helped and yes, the bleeding stopped within 3 days.The story needs to be read to see the depth this lady went to to cure herself , power of the mind and belief in the body's own healing system.Not easy but she did it almost in 6 weeks.Did not have the op, listened to her own gut directing her and taking opportunites that helped.The large mass dissolved and eliminated from her body. She got a clean bill of health at her next detailed ultrasound.But she did not go back to the original doctor or another specialist on her journey.Only kept with those who supported her. An amazing story worth reading. She developed a program from her experience called The Journey, which is available here in NZ, but originated from her home in USA.
It is a very personal journey for each of us finding what works and our own journey, and keeping an open mind above all else.
I was talking with a friend today about affirmations, actually she put me onto them in the first place.. Her sister had an injury to her arm , pins too I think,anyway shes done affirmations and taken supplements and been for a checkup recently, and the doctor/specialist was so amazed he called in another doctor to see the evident healing first hand and on xray.
She's getting good at this as she's also done this with 2 bouts of cancer and says each time she learns something more about herself.I just love her for what she's achieved!Just thought it was an interesting story and tells us to keep and open mind and not be pursuaded or coerced by anyone to do anything with our bodies we don't feel is in it's best interest.That can come from families or friends as well as the usual health providers.

Kiwigirl, love this post. I almost missed the spiritual/healing journey...feel like I pulled my self back from the brink of disaster, nearly let myself get cut up and sewn back together. I've been so cutoff from my body and now the recto adeno anemia are pulling me back inside, but now with a new awareness. Since I found the ww I wake up in the morning and tell my husband how great this forum is for me...I never join these kinds of things. LisaH

The other thing about sheep grazing red clover pasture is that they might not be eating anything else at all! It just depends on what is in the paddock, and what is most delicious. Red clover would be pretty yummy stuff if you were a sheep.

This is certainly not the case with humans.

Thanks LisaH, know what you mean, I wasn't one use to forums either until I got on here, pretty private otherwise lol and Gawd I think my other half is sick to death of hearing my WW stuff haha.
It is a journey though isn't it, finding out about POP and learning to manage it and about our bodies in a way we might not have ;-) otherwise.What a wakeup call eh It interrupted my spiritual journey , or was it spose to be part of it I wonder....Have you read any of Louise Hay's books? I love ..You Can Heal Your Life.See you can have it in one hand and WW book in the other, nicely balanced :P-). Cheers and enjoy your journey.Keeping chatting....

So true, Kiwi! No one wants to hear this stuff! My kids are like, mom, that is so depressing, I don't want to hear another word about it! (Even when I'm feeling joyful about something. Sigh).

So I guess there is just no understanding it if unless it happens to you. Little wonder our mothers, etc never told us or anyone in great detail, egh? Maybe we would have (or did!) answer the same way. The reactions one can get in telling this are amazing. I thought I'd stop the mean practice of not telling others about it for sake of sparing one's own pride. But truth is, girlfriends brush it aside. Family doesn't understand. Even women who have had it for years, for the most part are like, well you learn to deal with it. I met someone recently who had it for years (though I suspect it can't be that bad. I noticed women who have it ever so slightly can be kind of mean to those who have a more serious case of it! Big difference from simply hearing a doctor say you have it - and having major symptoms from it that seem to make life impossible)

I've learned to button my lip about it in my own life. I simply say if it's a good or not so good day. And then they know if I'll be up to things.

I save any thoughts, and come on here to comment. It's hard at work not to be able to say, "This sitting is killing me," or "Can we please sit down?" lol And I've always got this bleeding to worry about. Nothing, then hugely flowing, in random patterns like that. I do think they;ve prob wondered why I end up walking down the hall a lot ( to the ladies room). lol I'm also wearing dark skirts and long jackets all the time, lol, due to worrying about all this bleeding. An odd clothing choice is better than the alternative! : )

This morning I'm going swimming. Feels very daring. hahahaha What has my life come to that a dip in the pool for a couple of experimental laps is risky? I walked three quarters of a mile yesterday, then called it quits after wondering if it felt as if something had lowered (moved back)

Pathetic. (I was doing triathlons, remember. Now I'm seeing if can do the simplest of exercises and a couple of laps. Sad. Certainly frustrating/disheartening).

Wait, didn't I say I'm not a whiner? Whoops. : )

Hi CSF,
I was thinking about this very same subject a few days ago and realized that back when I was younger if someone had told me that this could very easily happen to me, I would have probably thought that it couldn't happen to me. I may have not done such heavy lifting but with the job that I had, I really had no choice.

As far as the heavy bleeding goes, PLEASE do some research on your own on the herb Dong Qui. It is considered to be one of those safe herbs (It will help you if you need it and won't help you if you don't but in any case won't harm you.), and saved me from having a D&C years ago. It straightened me out completely. Comes in capsule form so it is easy to take. It also straightened my daughter out who was having very painful periods at the time. It took less than a month for both of us but we both continued to take it for some time afterward and I still take it now on occasion because I believe it does help my POP.

If you search this site under "shark cartilage", you should come up with some things that I have written about that in the past. I take a concentrated form of it because I KNOW that it helped my horses that had a very bad connective tissue disease and part of what we are dealing with has to do with connective tissue. I also take a concentrated form of Chondroitin sulfate because that also helped my horses. I will say though that it is only the concentrated form of these products that I found would work. They really aren't that expensive compared to over the counter or prescription drugs but I had experimented with other brands of these products and found that my horses would go lame again after a couple of weeks but once I switched back to the concentrated form they would seem fine again after a couple of days. The disease my horses had is now known as DSLD/ESPA and is a whole body connective tissue disease that is thought to be genetic and affects everything from the eyes to the skin, so it is bad.
Hope this helps,
Little Bit

Hi, Little Bit!

I will get the Dong Qui!!! Thank you for the tip!! And for making sure I know to try it!!

Thanks! I DID take your advice when I first saw you writing about your horses! I immediately ordered Shark Cartililege (concentrated form) along with Black Cohosh from Twin Labs. : )

I started taking the Shark C right away.

Only thing is I realized the next morning I was swollen in my legs and had a tight achy feel all over. I took it for about four more days, each day waking up swollen. I stopped for a few days and only took the Shark C without the Black Cohosh. Still felt swollen the next day. Wasn't sure if I should continue taking it anyway. I wasn't exactly feeling bad, but similar to if you had had a big salty pizza the night before without anything to drink. That kind of swelling.

It can certainly have been helping me despite the swelling, egh? And then I was thinking well maybe I didn't drink enough water with it, etc. I know this might sound ridiculous but when I do eat meat or fish I make certain to get a piece that is attached TO BONE. And I make certain to eat the parts that are kind-a attached to the bone. I figure that's cartilidge and lascia and muscle and connective tissue, no?? lol Who knows but on gut feeling I was thinking that part might be very good for us right now. Kind of like lingering on a rib (but it's not ribs, but other cuts of meat), I make sure to kind of go for what's around the bone. How barbaric, egh? All I need now is a viking hat and braids and to toss the bone back on the table dismissively, wipe my hands on my braids and then go rowing. lol

Right now I am feeling terrific. (And, btw, I haven't taken any supplements in about four days, I guess).

This morning I went for a one mile walk. More than I have done in a month since finding out/seeing POP. But WAY less than I did before when I was walking or running six miles and then doing other things. Always been hugely active. But I was happy to walk the one mile in the sun shine and almost felt like trying a trot. Didn't. : )

So after my walk and restraining myself from running or walking farther (how cool is that? I felt so good I had to restrain myself from wanting to RUN!?: )
I went to the gym. And I swam for 10 minutes with a kick board. Very gently just kicking.

Then I tossed aside the kickboard and did some doggie paddle laps. I was CONCENTRATING on how my body was reacting. Ready to ditch it at the first sign of my body not liking any of it.

All systems go, so I tried doing the backstroke. Worked like a gem, so tried a little bit of the crawl. Terrific. Only did two or three laps of it though, just in case. A little side kicking (ballet style, out turned) like in the dvd, but in water. A few more laps. All in all 20 minutes of gentle swimming.

Then the sauna and steam room briefly. Then four minutes of carefully riding the bicycle sitting up, then standing up, then about one minute of leaning over (it's like a 1o speed, handle bars down).

That's it. Wow, I feel good.

My POP really liked it all! : ) THANK GOD.

Now THAT'S improvement!!

The sensations that I have is as if I'd torn/aggravated or whatever a lower round ligament. That's the pain/aggravation - exactly as you see it illustrated in books. And it gets ever better. Let me express that better - the overall feel is that something happened to my round ligament and that it is sllllooowly healing. I feel the posture protects or prevents things bouncing around. They FEEL secure in posture (once I have all my organs in and in place!! Feels awful when they are not inside and I cannot get into posture happily then. But that seems to be a direct function of having to um, you know. : ).

The funny thing that happened after coming out of the warm water is this - MY ABDOMEN GOT SMALLER! It was like magic!

Know how we were talking about that big upper abdomen feeling?? And talking about diaxis or however you spell it? Well while swimming I could feel this or that moving. A bit alarming, but nothing felt BAD, just moving. Like if you have a nail that's suddenly gotten bent backwards and then you have to right it. It felt weird but not bad - like things were being corrected while I swam. I actually let myself kind of go side to side and up and down a bit, since I was feeling all that activity inside.

It was the funniest thing to get out and be like what the heck, where is that big gut? It's GONE!!! LOL

Like nothing was poking me or bulging or inflated or out of place anymore. Even as I type now - nothing's amiss. : ) And when I lie down now, it's pretty flat! And I have this warm, good feeling - almost like an inner euphoria. PRAISE DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN and thank you to everyone here. I am so grateful.

So you can bet your sweet bippie that I am going to be swimming mornings!! lol I will try to replicate what I did. Needless to say, I recommend swimming! If I had to say one thing that was key is that I swam in the sunshine, it was warm water, I closed my eyes, I paid CLOSE attention to my body and did what seemed to work, and I made certain to RELAX and prayed while I swam. And I went over and over all the things that I am grateful for. And I said to God, I am seeing myself healed and whole, because I know with one word, You could do that for me - and I thank You now.

Hi CSF,
It sounds like you are doing great. I do believe exercise is very important. I always try to stay in WW posture as much as possible and am very careful when I do need to lift anything heavy now.

I don't believe the shark cartilage causes swelling. The holistic vet that told me about it said that it has very strong anti-inflamitory properties. It also helps connective tissue. I only gave my horses one capsule morning and night. They weighed about 800 lbs. and that worked for them. That is the most that I have ever taken for myself too. The holistic vet that told me about it said to take the smallest amount possible to control the pain because for some unknown reason when you take too much shark cartilage the body will build up a resistance to it and it will no longer work. I have taken it now for about 17 years and it still works for me. I started taking it for my arthritis pain and didn't realize it was also helping my POP until I ran completely out of it last winter. That was the first time I had ever felt the "bulge". The bulge feeling went away a couple of days after I started back on the shark cartilage and hasn't returned.
Little Bit

Hi!

I didn't meant it doesn't work! I am sure it does, by your testimony and that of others. I meant it made ME swell - I am allergic to a lot of things. And unfortunately this may be one of them. The only thing I can come up with so far to hope for is that maybe it's one of those things you need to drink a lot of water with and maybe I didn't. So I will try it again - on a day off - and try it with a lot of water. I am really hoping that I can take it too!

: )

Have read and reread Louise Hay over the years. Back then I could not look at the illness with it's spiritual/emotional cause without being too self critical. I'm less hard on myself now, but I must say that I did much better this week going deeper into the whole adenomyosis recto prolapse thing by paying attention to the psychological journey. Worked on the posture, cleaned up my diet, and paid closer attention to what and who I love and who I am. strange thing though got my period again today. At 49 I get my period every 28 days or so. Recent heavy bleeding, huge clots has me anemic, but I,ve been taking iron for just over a week, and with the other things I've been doing felt good. surprised to be bleeding again today only 18 days later. Feels like a cleanse but my rectums achey. The questions I have are: if my uterus is larger than normal because of the adenomyosis, how does that effect the proper balance of the pelvic organs? How can I get my uterus down to normal size? wonder if I should wish for the uterine purge Christine has mentioned? I think you are right...This is part of the spiritual journey wouldn't believe that an achey butt could bring me to this place!!!

Have my period again...18 days since last Tsunami of bleeding. Ready to stuff my vagina with barley grass. Can you describe what to do?

Lisa H

Hi Lisa,

Well...I only mentioned that to illustrate the sort of extremes one might go to in trying to bring about healing. And my comments weren’t really on target because my experiments didn’t stop, but rather brought about a great bleed, which only stopped thereafter. The gusher came about accidently, but I have believed ever since that the uterus knows how to purge itself given the right circumstances. I have no doubt those circumstances would not be reproducible from woman to woman *and* that there was a mind-body-spirit connection involved that was unique to me.

I was having a dreadful time sleeping and an herbalist had given me two tinctures to take: 30 drops of St. John’s Wort and 10 drops of Scullcap in a small amount of water 30 minutes before bed and again right before bed. I had been doing this for some weeks - maybe three. I was eating lightly and healthfully and had also started belly dance classes. I was worried about recent results from the only abnormal pap smear I had ever had, so I grew wheat grass in organic soil, ground and drank the juice and placed the pulp vaginally, thinking the chlorophyll, etc. would be a great antioxidant.

So I had been bleeding moderately but almost constantly and one morning I got up out of bed and felt a huge gush of blood. I knew instantly that something extreme was happening. I bundled myself up and drove a few miles to my daughter’s house, told her I was bleeding and that I thought I was okay, but just needed a hug and to tell her I loved her. I drove back home and made a pallet of blankets and pillows on the livingroom floor. A great bleed out - accompanied by a powerful spiritual experience - commenced. It took about two hours, during which time I either sat upright or walked around my little nest on the floor. The blood was coming like squirts from a whipped cream can. If it had been bright red and thin I would’ve high-tailed it to the ER, but it was clearly menstrual blood and something told me to go with the experience. The spiritual side of it was very powerful and something I can’t describe. However, I had a “knowing” that I had to make an immense decision, and quite literally the moment I made it, the gushing stopped.

The bleeding trickled down to very light and completely stopped over the next couple of days. My big, boggy uterus was now tiny and pulled up high inside. It never regained its previous proportions. This was all part of about a six-month period during which I had many “accidental” experiences that taught me the Whole Woman work. I wrote Saving the Whole Woman shortly thereafter and the book seemed to write itself.

*warning*
I stopped the tinctures around the time of the bleed because I experienced a very scary heart palpitation that literally jolted me out of bed. Herbal medicine requires a deep commitment to life/death, knowledge of and great reverence for Nature. It is non-linear and cannot be quantified and this is why it is so feared and hated by the scientific perspective.

Barley grass is easily grown in small cafeteria trays. Simply soak unhulled barley overnight in good water, drain and rinse. Cover an inch of organic soil with seeds. I wet the soil first and then sprinkle the seeds on top. Cover with another tray and place in a warm place to germinate. About three days later the sprouts will be lifting the top tray off. Remove the lid and place the sprouts under grow lights or in a bright spot where they won’t be in direct sun. Keep them moist until about six inches tall, about seven days. Grind in a wheatgrass juicer.

This exercise was very messy and I had green splotched towels, underwear and sheets. I used lots of sanitary pads. I left a ball of pulp inside for an hour or so at a time, after which it was easily expelled in the toilet.

*warning*
If you are going to try something like this, do so at your own risk. I had never heard of it (although the great health pioneer, Ann Wigmore, used to use wheatgrass “implants” anally on a regular basis), and I have no idea of any “real” health benefits barley grass placed vaginally might provide.

Christine

Christine, perimenopausal bleeding can be quite unnerving. I remember many years ago hearing an acquaintance saying she had a hysterectomy because she was bleeding so heavily that she couldn't leave the house. I still had little kids at the time. I thought that was pretty far out. "Hysterectomy was the best thing she ever did," I heard her boast. No wonder, after all that bleeding!

The trouble is that I can now see that for me the heavy bleeding phase was like a climax, like tottering on a fence and panicking because you are going to fall. Eventually you fall, and dust yourself off, and say, "Well, I'm OK back on the ground. I'm on solid ground again." It is like a disturbing rite of passage that leads to a better place. The worse it gets, the close it gets to being over and done with.

I was very close to stopping menstruation, or should I say that, after the heavy bleeding, which got heavier over 12 months, the periods became shorter and lighter, quite quickly, and less frequent. I went from 6 days of bright heavy bleeding with some short cycles to one day of heavy bleeding in a four day period within a couple of months. Then the bleeds became shorter, lighter and further between, until they just stopped.

I would imagine that you would have experienced some considerable fear during your bleed, Christine. Were there other emotions?

Louise

I don’t actually remember being afraid, of the blood anyway. I can’t describe the other emotions, because it would seem unreal. It was the only time in my waking life (I’ve had a couple of amazing dream experiences) that I have ever experienced God, or Spirit. I was being overwhelmingly communicated with, but it wasn’t a “voice” I heard, but rather a “knowing” - that’s the only way I can describe it.